Question: if you were going to pick between an '05 Grand Touring (red exterior w/combo red/black leather interior) or a brand new '07 base-model Sport (red exterior w/black cloth interior and no other options) for the same price, which would you go with?

Other than the leather, I know that the '05 GT has a sunroof, traction control, Xenons, fog lamps, Bose stereo, 18" wheels, and keyless entry. I would actually prefer *not* having a sunroof (I'm thinking it might give me an inch more headroom if it wasn't there), and with the heat we've been having lately, I'm beginning to appreciate the idea of cloth interior. The idea of getting a brand-new car where I don't have to worry about the unknown history and getting the full warranty is appealing. *BUT* I'd prefer having the traction control and Xenons. The tires are a toss-up for me, as the Sport's 16" would be less expensive to replace and should give me more options (e.g., Hankook).

Obviously, moving up to the Touring would give me most everything I want (plus some things I don't, like the sunroof), but would cost another $4000. The Sport with the Performance Package would be ideal, but I can't find a local dealer who has one of those (the three Sports I found were all bare-bones with no options).

So anyways...what would you do and why?

MT or auto?
How many miles?

You have 5 years or 50K bumper to bumper and 60K on powertrain and it's transferable. You most likely have warranty left.


I have a GT and love it. Also the GT gets a better suspension. TCS and Stability control are very nice options to have in adverse weather.

If you still have a warranty left on the '05 I would go for that. If one is a manual and another is an auto I would get the manual.

Go with new and then mod the hell out of it over time.

Aren't the base and sport are two different models? The base has the 16" wheels, no TSC/DSC, etc. whereas the sport has the 18" wheels, upgraded suspension, TSC/DSC, etc.

Aren't the base and sport are two different models? The base has the 16" wheels, no TSC/DSC, etc. whereas the sport has the 18" wheels, upgraded suspension, TSC/DSC, etc.

I thought all the 8's came with the same size wheels?

And mine is the Base 04 model that you're describing...I have the HID's or Xenons as I think you're calling them along with Traction control and Keyless entry...

Are you sure you're talking about the right car here? :Eyecrazy:

Shaun, I thought only the Shinka editions had upgraded suspension?

The 07 Base model for the RX8 is the sport version. It is missing the HID's, Xenon's, 18" wheels, some suspension stuff, etc. Personally I didn't like the Sport and the GT had too many features I would never need but pay dearly for. If you go to Edmunds you can compare the three models against one another and see what you get.

shaunv74, they'd both be manual transmission.

Update: Looks like I may have been too quick to rule out the Touring model (18" wheels, traction control, Xenons, fog lamps, Bose stereo, etc.). I got another email from one of the dealers I was corresponding with who claims that he can get me a red MT Touring model for about $2500 more than the stripped-down Sport models I was previously given prices for. Even though I'd prefer to have an inch of extra headroom instead of the sunroof (though it may be an incorrect assumption on my part to think that the lack of a sunroof will give me any extra headroom), the other options that the Touring adds seem like they're well worth paying the extra $2500 for.

So now I think I'm leaning towards that. That assumes that I can return the '05 I took possession of two days ago. I bought it from a no-haggle dealer that offers a 5-day return policy, so I'll be finding out real soon now if they honor that or if they start coming up with excuses or fine print.

The sunroof decreases interior headroom by 2 inches actually. However, I am 6'4" and I do fit into the car (but I have always been a leaned back driver). I have hit my head twice while redlining though, more of a shock than anything. The Touring and Grand Touring have the same size cabin so you should know how it is already. Only thing that I am not happy about is the lack of adjustable lumbar support which the GT might have.

...That assumes that I can return the '05 I took possession of two days ago. I bought it from a no-haggle dealer that offers a 5-day return policy, so I'll be finding out real soon now if they honor that or if they start coming up with excuses or fine print.

Why all the doubts after you took the '05 home? Are you unhappy with the miles on it, or the fact it's used?

If the '07 Sport doesn't have HIDs, 18" wheels, etc. standard I'd skip it, even though the idea of brand spankin' new is really appealing.

Yeah, it sucks that the Touring model doesn't appear to have any sort of adjustable seat. IMO, the way they *should* have split up the models would have been to put some sort of mult-adjustment (but still cloth) seat on the Touring model and moved the Sunroof up to the GT model (since it's more of a "luxury" option anyway). One other feature that's missing from the Touring model that will suck is the keyless entry. Did you add something similar as a dealer-installed option and, if so, about how much did it cost? I imagine it shouldn't cost much, and perhaps I can even negotiate for it to be thrown in ahead of time.

Why all the doubts after you took the '05 home? Are you unhappy with the miles on it, or the fact it's used?Probably a combination of things:

1) I'm a chronic second-guesser and over-researcher. I normally research my purchases for a good month before buying and, after buying, second guess my decision. In this case it's worse because I was a bit rushed into buying (and didn't get to over-research) due to the fact that my other car wouldn't pass emissions/safety.

2) It's been hot and humid lately. This combined with the dark (black and red) leather seats have made for a hot and sweaty ride. I love the way the red and black leather looks (and cleans up nicer than cloth, and should add to resale value), but for daily driving in the summer (a hot summer), it's not so fun.

3) It's used and I don't know the history. It's got a couple of modded parts (an aluminum fuel door still in the box in the trunk and a MazdaSpeed cold air intake) which is good and bad. It's good since these are nice mods, but it might be bad since the prior owner might have been a kid who drove it hard. I know that the dealer repainted the front and rear bumpers. They claimed there were just some deep scratches, but who knows if that's true. And the other day I heard a loud high-pitched (ear piercing) whine coming from under the hood while running idle. It was muted and not very noticeable inside the cabin, but standing outside it actually hurt my ears. Don't know what it is and it doesn't happen every time, so it's just a mystery, and that worries me. Used means I only have part of my warranty left, too.

Given your 3 strong points above it sounds like an easy decision about taking them up on the money-back-guarantee offer. I'd be curious if the whole return goes smoothly.

I returned the car tonight. Absolutely painless process. The dealer was Carsense (carsense.com). I think they're local to PA and only have two locations. No commission salespeople, 5 day/500 mile return policy, and 6 month bumper-to-bumper warranty. Although they tout the fact that their salespeople don't work off of commission, they seem to follow a similar business model as Best Buy, where the salespeople get some sort of kickback on extended warranties, because they tried to sell us all sorts of different add-on warranties during the sale closing, but we turned them down. Nevertheless, returning it was a no-hassle event, so I can heartily recommend them. Just do your research (unlike me) and make sure you're happy with the overall deal. They overprice the cars a bit.

Anyways, I'm back to square one. I talked with my brother some more tonight and he was pushing me towards the base Sport model because of the hope of better headroom (due to no sunroof). He commented about the headroom seeming tight when he rode in my RX-8 today and he's shorter than me (about 5'11" vs 6'2" for me). The headroom does seem less than I'd like, so if I could gain 2" with the Sport model, that might make for a more pleasurable long-term experience. I'm thinking that hunting down a Sport with the Performance Package might be the way to go, but if anyone here thinks that the Traction Control isn't worth paying extra for, let me know, because that's the main feature I think I want (I can easily live without the fog lamps or Xenon bulbs).

Probably a combination of things:

1) I'm a chronic second-guesser and over-researcher. I normally research my purchases for a good month before buying and, after buying, second guess my decision. In this case it's worse because I was a bit rushed into buying (and didn't get to over-research) due to the fact that my other car wouldn't pass emissions/safety.

2) It's been hot and humid lately. This combined with the dark (black and red) leather seats have made for a hot and sweaty ride. I love the way the red and black leather looks (and cleans up nicer than cloth, and should add to resale value), but for daily driving in the summer (a hot summer), it's not so fun.

3) It's used and I don't know the history. It's got a couple of modded parts (an aluminum fuel door still in the box in the trunk and a MazdaSpeed cold air intake) which is good and bad. It's good since these are nice mods, but it might be bad since the prior owner might have been a kid who drove it hard. I know that the dealer repainted the front and rear bumpers. They claimed there were just some deep scratches, but who knows if that's true. And the other day I heard a loud high-pitched (ear piercing) whine coming from under the hood while running idle. It was muted and not very noticeable inside the cabin, but standing outside it actually hurt my ears. Don't know what it is and it doesn't happen every time, so it's just a mystery, and that worries me. Used means I only have part of my warranty left, too.


I have all black leather and yes I to suffer from the sweaty back on real hot days..

The thing that is sketchy to me is the fact the dealer repainted the front and rear bumpers... I think you did the right thing in bringing it back.. I don't buy their story about deep scratches..

I wish you luck with your situation and I hope you enjoy your future 2007 :)

:rock:

When I bought my 06, it came with a Sport Package. At the time, the package consisted of:
1. sport suspension with 18" wheels
2. DSC
3. HID and foglamps

I dislike leather seating and sunroof for many reasons of my own, which is why picked the base MT w/ sport package.

The Mazda site doesn't mention the Performance Package ('07 model year) having upgraded tires/wheels, but maybe I can track down info on that from a Mazda dealer. Is there anyone here with an '07 Sport w/Performance Package who can chime in on this?

FWIW, I checked Mazda's web site and looked at the spec page for the RX-8. It actually does list two separate sets of numbers for front/rear headroom whether you have a model with sunroof or without. So the official word from Mazda is that you get 1.5" of extra headroom in the front (38.2" vs 36.7") and 0.3" of extra headroom in the back (36.8" vs 36.5"). Worth noting: so without the sunroof, rear seat passengers get 0.1" more headroom than the front-seat passengers in a model with sunroof. They really ought to take the sunroof out of the packages and treat it as a standalone option, or at least put it in only the GT package.

I have an 05 GT. At 5'8", the only time headroom is a problem for me is when I wear a helmet (so I just scrunch down more). But I still like having a sunroof. :) The Xenons aren't a selling point, IMO -- when going up & down hills on back roads, they don't have enough light shining "up" so I can see what's ahead. And the Bose stereo is mediocre at best. The power-adjustable seat is a Godsend though.

I have black leather too. I got the cloth seat covers for summertime use (especially since I track it) and they make a big difference. Plus those cheapo silverized fold-out sun screens are very effective at keeping the heat down during the summer. Tinting the windows helps too.

Thanks for the added insights. Any thoughts about the value of traction control?

Also, I was checking the Mazda site again and on Spec page / Performance tab, the divide the screen up between automatic and manual and the manual is listed as having 18" wheels. They don't differentiate between the Sport and the two Touring models. But when you go to "Build" a car through their site, the Sport model MT supposedly comes with 16" wheels. Which is correct? When I go to Tire Rack's site, if I plug in an '07 MT, it also doesn't differentiate between the Sport and Touring models and tells me that I've got 18" tires. All this has got me to wondering if the base Sport MT model might actually come with 18" tires, contrary to Mazda's "Build" page. Anyone here know for sure?

One other feature that the Touring model has that I'd like is the HomeLink feature built into the rear-view mirror. I've got a garage door opener, and I'd prefer to keep my visor clean and use a built-in system. Any idea if that's something that could be added by a dealer? I'm guessing not.

Another thing to consider, I believe the models with the smaller 16" wheels have smaller brake rotors as well.

Personally, I have a GT model and am very happy with it. I like the sunroof, but I'm only 5'10" so clearance is not an issue.

Unless you like leather, go with the 07 sport. If its an M6 it will have the same suspension and 18 inch wheels. Only the base automatics have a "softer" suspension and 16 inch wheels. And becasue its a base sport it will have a little less weight. The cloth seats will do a better jop holding you in place. This combined with less weight makes it the better choice for competition. Although the difference isnt that much. And 99.9% of the time you will be on public roads, not the track.

Sit in both, drive both, buy the one you like most. :)


For clarification, the performance package for the base 6M adds:

Traction/Stability control (nice for bad weather/bad road conditions)
HID's (Look great)
Fog lights.

The performance package for the base A6 adds the above plus sport suspension, 18 wheels and bigger brakes.

Even w/o the performance package the 07 base sport comes with sport suspension, 18 wheels, and LSD. All the stuff you need without the dead weight.

The touring and grand touring comes with all the above plus various luxury/convience items.

As per 07 sales info.

Wasn't the keyless entry new for '06? I'm 6'4, the same as Devilboi, and the sunroof hasn't given me any real issues--but my car seat is all the way back and leans at an angle where nobody is going to sit behind me.

Bester, do you work for a dealer or own the Sport? You seem very confident that the '07 Sport MT comes with 18" wheels. As I stated previously, the "Build A Vehicle" option on the Mazda site indicates that the Sport MT comes standard with 16" wheels, but the spec page indicates that only the AT has the smaller 16" wheels, so I'm trying to confirm which is correct. I'm going to email a couple of the salespeople I've been dealing with, but I tend to take what they say with a grain of salt.

Now the other thing I've got to do is decide on a color. I'm leaning towards the Red since I love the way that looks, but I'm a bit worried about how it will look 4+ years from now, since reds tend to fade. I'm hoping to drive it well past I've paid it off.

I just bought an 07 base 6M sport. No options. The info I posted applies only to 07's. Not sure what subtle difference existed in previous years. I know specifications are subject to change without notice, but the info I posted came directly from the 07 sales brochure. So,...I hope its somewhat accurate. :)

FWIW my car came with the 18 inch wheels, bigger brakes, sport suspension, and LSD.

As far as sport versus non-sport suspension the only difference I know of is the size of the front anti roll bar. Someone please post if this is incorrect.

Thanks again. Well, two of the salespeople I've emailed confirmed that the MT Sport would have the 18" wheels. I'm assuming it's the same actual wheels/tires as the Touring models, correct?

Also, they told me that even the Sport model had keyless entry. Apparently, the GT has a smart key feature, which I can live without. Can you confirm that this is correct?

My new dilemma is that I'm now getting conflicting info about whether I can get an '07 Sport in red w/MT and Performance Package. Two salespeople have told me that can't find it in the inventory, but a 3rd claims that she has. Ugh.

DSC could save your car in suboptimal traction conditions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3m24bjkfg0&NR=1

HID illuminates better, but not necessary.

Cloth, in my opinion, wears better than leather, is lighter, and holds you much better in turns.

Glass sunroof adds a lot of weight 20-30lbs(?), which is equivalent to robbing 2-3 hp, and has the potential to creak when torsion is introduced to the chassis.

Quick update: At this point I'm still waiting to hear back as to whether or not the red Sport w/MT and Performance Package exists somewhere. Another wrinkle: I realized that the sales rep who called me this morning was from the same dealership as one of the other sales reps I had been conversing with over email, so I emailed one of them and asked them to sort through that potentially sticky situation.

I've been told that a blue Sport w/MT and Performance Package exists and I know that a local dealer actually has a red Sport w/MT (but without the Performance Package), so I may end up having to make a tough decision: get a different color with the package I want, get a red one without the Performance Package, or try to find a red touring model (and suffer with the reduced headroom). Quite the soap opera so far.

Well, when last I spoke with the dealer, they claimed that they found the car and could get it for me and the price was going to be $24.5k. Dealers are closed on Sundays in PA, so today I started second-guessing things (again) and decided to do an online search for some used RX-8's with cloth and no sunroof. I found a couple with low miles (an '04 and an '05) for about $18-19k asking price (both are from car dealers - so I might be able to get them down further). They have fog lamps, but I can't tell from the photos (or the specs listed) whether or not they have traction control. I posted a new thread to see if anyone knew if traction control was standard in '04/'05.

My wife is going to kill me if/when I tell her I'm on the fence about used vs new again.

For any long-term rotary owners (especially pre-turbo RX-7's) or just plain resident experts...what sort of long-term reliability can I expect from a 2005-2007 RX-8 if I take good care of it (checking oil often) and don't race it? I'm close to buying an RX-8 and I'm planning to drive it until the wheels fall off. Is the rotary engine going to give me trouble long-term? Will it give me expensive trouble before or after a typical 6-cylinder Japanese-built performance car (e.g., Nissan 350Z)?

There's guys on the boards that have gone well over 100k+ without any major problems. Not sure if that's as many problem free miles as you were expecting or not, but someone that works for Mazda said he saw one over 150k and was doing great.

From what I hear these cars can go 150k+ without having any major problems as long as they're well taken care of, and your chances are even better if you get a new one. I would suggest just biting the bullet if you can't find a better deal on a new one in your area (Like I said in your other thread the prices at that dealership seem reallllllly steep to me.), But if you can't find better then by all means just take the new one.

16" wheels on RX8? Even the Mazda5 comes with 17".

what is a performance package? Mine is a '04 sport 6MT so it comes with HID, DSC and 18" wheels. I see on the mazda site that the 07 6mt sport is listed as having 16" wheels and no hid or dsc. This doesnt seem right, can anybody confirm this. If so get the 05. Oh and personally the only way I would get a touring or grand touring model is if it cost the same as the sport model (leather, bose, sunroof) all that crap is only worth any money to me when I go to resell the car.

sounds to me like you're still flipping back and forth on a the turn of a dime...you just need to figure out what's more important.

For me, i'm 6'1", and a sunroof was important to me, just always loved um. As much as i'd love the extra headroom, at times I wonder how weird it would be to NOT have it...it can be so nice sometimes.

All the other lil things, specifically TCS/DSC and xenons, I don't think i could go back to NOT having...especially the xenons. Gotta love those! IMO, i would look for an 05/06 from a private owner that seems trustable, and go from there. No matter what dealers say about not marking up and non-commission sales, it is their job...they'll do and say what they have to to make the sale!

My vote goes for a used GT. :)

I posted a new thread to see if anyone knew if traction control was standard in '04/'05.



You don't need to run around posting new threads to ask the same question. It just causes annoyance. Just check Edmunds.com for year over year changes. The traction control and Stability controls were options in '04 and '05. They came standard on the GT. I don't know which other trim levels had it optional or standard.

You can search around the tech garage section and search for TSBs to find out about known problems and issues. There are some and all are taken care of under warranty at the dealer as long as you still have the bumper to bumper.

It sounds like you're flip flopping around a bunch. Figure out what you want and stick with it. Just remember there is no decision you make that is the end of the world. And the worst decision you can make is none at all.

Well, per my other thread, I finally made a decision. I went with a new '07 Sport w/MT and Performance Package. Thanks for everyone's insights/experiences that helped me to make my decision. If all goes well I'll have the car tomorrow or Wednesday.

Congrats! Yeah I just saw that in your other thread. Nice work getting a new '07 for close to the same price!

You'll be very happy with it. Next thing I recommend is check out the FI comparision thread in the "major horsepower upgrades" section. :rock:

grats on the pruchase. sure you'll love it.

Congrats and enjoy! :)