Hey guys, i'm a first time post on here, so forgive me if anythings wrong with my post.

Anyways, I've loved the RX-7 since my brother came home with his 88 SE, (which I now own, but need to rebuild the engine)

Next year I plan on buying a new car, and I really want to buy an Rx-8. But i live in the land of the Azn freeway racer. I can hardly get on the freeway without getting in a race. Now this is where my problem lies.

I hate to lose, but with every cars horse power going up, and the super cars (Evos and STIs) making their precence felt.. how does an RX-8 compare. (Hell even the new accords have 240 hp)

For about the same price as an RX-8 you can pick up a subaru WRX-STI, or a Mitsu Lancer Evo VII. Both come with turbo, and all wheel drive. and both pushing about 270 HP stock.

What selling points would the RX-8 have over these other cars? besides limited production numbers.

Well from your post I don't think the RX-8 is for you.. It WILL lose to those cars, especially the turbo ones that will probably be modded.
The things the RX-8 will have over those cars is better looks imo, probably better handling, lower weight. I don't think it will be that exclusive.. but that will probably depend on the market.

hrmm if u wait untill the warranty goes out ucan throw a turbo in it. so u will have to lose races or back down from them for 3 years or how ever long they last

My main choices were between an older RX-7 and mod that out, or a new RX-8. the RX-7 is a proven platform with a ton of mods out. Which it looks like I may lean that way. In this case.

And I ment limited production numbers because as far as mass produced cars go, an RX-7 is rather rare. I see maybe one or two a month (3rd gen). You can drive around and see 20 to 30 civics, accords, integs, eclipses, lancers, WRX/impreznas a day. Maybe its just where I live tho.

You *can* stop yourself from getting into races... besides in a real race the STi and RX-8 wouldn't compete with one another.

Why dont they put a option of a turbo on the new RX-8 .. i would love to see a turbo rotor engine.

Just so i know.. how much do rotorary engine turbos run? same price? same theory? wut kind of modifications do you need...

another thing.. i hear this car will do about 6 sec 0-60 .. kinda slow for such a light weight car no?

Originally posted by TheSaCK
Why dont they put a option of a turbo on the new RX-8 .. i would love to see a turbo rotor engine.

Just so i know.. how much do rotorary engine turbos run? same price? same theory? wut kind of modifications do you need...

another thing.. i hear this car will do about 6 sec 0-60 .. kinda slow for such a light weight car no?
Every car company releases numbers that are conservative.

Wait until Car and Driver get their hands on the car and let's see their test times. I'll guesstimate 5.6-5.8, not too shabby.

As per turbos, nobody knows how to apply it to this new engine so it'll have to wait. The beefier version will be faster and hopefully WITHOUT turbos.. I hate turbos in cars, I'd take a naturally aspirated any day of the week.

well hercules, granted.... an RX wouldn't run against an AWD... but on the streets class means little..

You're right though, i CAN stop myself from racing, but i'm young and its a thrill. Plus its always fun to go haha i beat you.

Plus sometimes, class doesn't mean jack on the street. I've tied a vette in a 96 COROLLA, and beaten a Mustand Saleen in a 98 Integra LS. Granted Both were freeway runs, and a smaller car has more room to manuever, or the driver in the other car didn't take the time to actually run me. But Most drivers don't usually go 110 or 120+.

Yes for all you safety guys and cops, I realise this is VERY stupid. But (knock on wood) I've never been in an accident, racing or otherwise... and I don't take stupid risks, like cutting off big rigs, or going between cars where there isn't a lane.

I'm looking to get out of this whole "freeway" scene, and down to some time trial runs, and I just want something that can pull around a 12 (with modifcations of course, while still being california legal.) This way i wont have to endanger my life or others.
The fact that the RX-8 wont offer a turbo option does however make me sad, because I thought that the Rotary engine was the best platform for a Turbo. Since its constantly firing, turbo lag is all but illiminated. (or alteast this is what I was taught.) It seems such a waste to disregard it. Or the fact that the Turbo RX-7s are what made the Rx-7 so famous in history, and so infamous on the streets.

But thats just what I think, who I am to judge, in the words of tom cruise from Days of Thunder, "All that stuff you just said, I dont know what that means, they stuck me in a car, and I could drive."

Engine design has little to do with turbo lag. The 3rd gens have little lag because they have sequential twins. Nice for drivability, not so nice for cost and reliability. Converted to singles for drag racing they have tons of lag. Turbocharged engines certainly didn't make the RX-7 famous, either, unless you're definition of fame is being cast in TF&TF.

<counts to ten>.... I still can't think of anything nice to say.

Originally posted by Grimace
<counts to ten>.... I still can't think of anything nice to say. ditto.

You two sound like your 50.

Jon Snow, I would say look at the Mazda Speed version of the RX-8. From recent talk its supposed to have 300hp NA. The RX-8 should handle just as well as the evo or the wrx, hopefully better. I think you should wait till it comes out and then decided as any real information at this point could change before the car comes out.

Oh yah as to the turbo option, from what mazda has said there will be no turbo version of this motor. So any turbos are going to have to be aftermarket. Thus voiding basically everything on your car.

Originally posted by Macabre
Engine design has little to do with turbo lag... Engine design has plenty to do with turbo lag. There are all sorts of trade-offs you can make in engine design that will affect turbo lag vs. high boost capability. A higher compression engine will spool-up faster. Port design on a rotary (cam setup on a piston engine) will affect spool-up. And intake paths with short runners that are opened up to allow maximum airflow will hurt off-boost performance.

Then you've got things in a piston engine such as bore and stroke design that also make a difference (a longer stroke will spool up a turbo more quickly), which do translate over to a rotary in some fashion also.

---jps

If you are truly interested in rotaries and the RX-7 then go here and do some searches for turbo information (use the search function or prepare to be flamed!).

From the sounds of things, maybe you would be better off with a used vette or camaro or something like that. With a few mods they win you all the street races you want.

If you get a seven and just start dicken around, adding turbos and shit then you WILL blow motors. And then you will come back here saying how unreliable rotaries are and how they suck! These cars must be tuned correctly when using forced induction.

Now, if you are more interested in getting into autoX, then an RX-7, and most likely the RX-8, will shine! You don't don't neccesarily need tons of power to have fun!

It's not the size of the engine that matters...it's how you use it! ;)


Steve
P.S. these are just my opinions...i do not intend to offend.

Originally posted by Sputnik
Engine design has plenty to do with turbo lag. [snip]

Not quite what I meant with engine design. Perhaps I should have said "basic engine design," and also why I said "little." The point I was making, apparently not very elequently, was that turbocharged rotaries do in fact have lag :D

Well honestly, if you're racing on the freeway like you said, (and not from a stoplight) then the 8 would actually have the advantage. If an 8 and an Evo/STi were racing from a roll at 80, I would bet money on the RX-8.

Why? Well first of all, the Evo/STi have about 20 more crank hp but the drivetrain loss is greater due to being AWD, so the actually hp to the wheels will be almost the same as the RX-8. And since the 8 weighs less, it will actually have a BETTER power:weight ratio. Plus the 8 will have the advantage of being more aerodynamic, unlike the others which are boxy and high off the ground. Aerodynamics are a big factor at high speeds.

Not that I would recommend anyone racing like this on public highways, but since you asked...

JonSnow, if nobody else is going to say it, I will. If you're telling us you beat a Corvette with a Corolla or a Saleen Mustang with a Integra LS, then either:

1) Those cars weren't racing you or
2) It's simply not true

I can't even see a heavily modified Corolla (if there is such a thing) beating a Corvette. The other matchup is almost as unlikely. With that type of mentality, why not buy a Nissan Sentra V-spec and beat WRX's and Evo's? Or a Ford Focus SVT or Mazdaspeed Protege? They are all decent cars but won't hold a candle to a WRX STi or Mitsu Evo. on their best days. Hell, they wont even hold a candle to the cars you mentioned above, not without VERY heavy modifications (not in a straight line, anyway).

In the rest of the post, I feel what you're saying, though. Straight line speed (0-60 and 1/4 mi.) is about bragging rights. Alot of people want a car that they can say, on paper, is faster than the Jones' this, that, or whatever. I, personally, was a little disturbed when I read some of the recent reviews of the new Neon SRT-4. 0-60 in ~5.6 sec and 1/4mi in 14.2. That'll give my RX-8, in a stop light match, a run for my money (if not beat it). But common sense overcame me. This is a Neon! Same ugly interior (not really that great on the outside, either). No way to adjust camber/caster for much improved handling thru the twisties and its reliability will probably be the worst in the whole Dodge line up (which will be bad). It just shows, you get what you pay for. If you want a nicely balanced car (looks, reliability, handling, and pretty decent straightline speed) get a RX-8. If its about just straightline speed....well, you know what to get.

first things first: i'm 19, but i'm with Grimdog and Herc... there's not much nice to say about this...

Jon, the STi and Evo aren't super cars by any measure... no, no!! no, they're not... if you said NSX, Skyline GT-R, or um, RX-7 FD, hmmm... anything that has a 6 cyl plus engine, you could say that it's an exotic... Japan does not make supercars. (<- that's a period...) the STi and Evo are rally inspired street rods, and these street rods are over powered (by that i mean from the factory, they're pushing a LOT of power by virtue of boost, and that's about it...), overwieght, and basically underengineer'd... no, i don't think these are poorly engineered cars, but they don't go to the trouble of honing the shift gates to just bleed into each other, or ensuring that the underbody aero was tuned just right (as they know stupid kids would rice 'em out anyways)... they're fast cars that are designed to go fast in a straight line, and not too much else... when you say that the Super Lemon Evo is one of the best handling cars, that's not the factory Evo: don't get me started.

also, your SCC brand of naivete really surprised me... i'm not going to insult you any further than that... but really: "...an RX won't run against AWD..." <<sigh>> that's not what he meant... he means that... oh, i shouldn't bother... but i will.
Herc means to say that the differences between RWD and AWD are fundamental in the behavior of these cars on a track; most of the guys on this board are road racers (which means racing on road circuits, not the streets), or autocrossers... i'm neither, but aspire to autocross whereupon i save enough money for an FC, and thus have done my best to understand these differences. primarily, AWD or 4WD is just a whole lot heavier than RWD, obviously, and AWD/4WD has a propencity to understeer... yes yes Subaru guys!! i know you can fix that with a few alignment adjustments, but still, the disparity exists...
also, Herc is nuts about this car (i can't blame him), and he whole heartedly believes that in this car, he could spank most things short of some of those previously mentioned exotics (above: NSX, RX-7 FD, etc...)

if you wanna know what my opinion is about you getting an FD over the 8, with your plans to mod this thing like crazy, i'd say stick with your FC... here's why:
you'll save money on buying a wholly new car to use to mod your engine, the differences in the BLOCK between the 13BREW and 13B (na) are very very few, also, i THINK that the '88 FC's were 6p which is good news for you if you wanna run shitloads of boost and avoid the volumetric inefficiencies which can arise from that keeping only with the 4p layout, there are MORE proven and cheaper mods for the FC, you're rebuilding the engine anyways!!, AND FD's ARE RARE!!: i want to be able to find a few unwrecked and unriced FD's the day i can finally afford to buy one and restore it to better-than-new condition... ahhhh someday <<angelic harp music>>

anyhoo, if the only reason you want an FD is 'cause you think it looks better than the FC, you're kinda silly... just get a kit car if you wanna pose...
i'll reiterate this, just in case you glossed over it: the differences between the 13B and 13BREW are really really few and far between... you can pick up really mega-high-performance parts for the 13B from Racing Beat at a really really nice price for your FC, also guys like Mariah Motorsports, and uhhhh, jeez, i used to know more...

go to www.fc3s.org, and talk to the guys there...

seriously, the FC is a really great car: you can swap the tail lights, mirrors, hood, if you want the turbo look... or just the lights and mirrors if you want the GTUs look *droooool*
do that instead of buying something new: it doesn't make a difference if you want a street weapon...

oh!! almost forgot: Reasons NOT to Get An RX-8 (for you)
- the RENESIS doesn't have any tried and true mods
- you can build an NA 13B that's just as powerful with a couple of well priced race parts from Racing Beat
- the RX-8's chassis is a fair bit longer and heavier than your FC '88 SE's (wieght is important)
- the FC has a mega low Cd if you get the factory aero kit... only 0.29!!! really!! that's low!! (has mostly to do with the small frontal area... the RX-8 is a much larger and higher car)
- blah blah blah
- don't get the RX-8

The accord is NOT a pretty car.

I own a Porsche Boxster. It has 217HP. It will be beat by a lot of cars. But, it is a very cool car and very fun to drive. But, stuck as a 3rd family car due to 2 seats only.


What do 90+% of people what. They want to fly around corners, go 0 to 60 fast and look very cool doing it. I cannot drive over 80MPH and get a ticket and/or go to jail.

The bottom line is you want a car that makes you smile!

If racing in a straight line on a freeway and winning makes you smile... buy a Viper. If you need to have 3 or more people in your primary car and what to smile... Buy a M5 if you have $70K or buy a RX-8 at $30K.

Its is the american way. Drive what makes YOU happy!

Later,
Roachman

Originally posted by wakeech
- the FC has a mega low Cd if you get the factory aero kit... only 0.29!!! really!! that's low!! (has mostly to do with the small frontal area... the RX-8 is a much larger and higher car)


While agree with most of your post, Cd is not based on frontal area. Many modern cars have Cd which would be unbelievable 10 years ago. The new Honda Accord supposedly has a .26 Cd and the new Mazda MPV supposedly has a .34 Cd.

I previously posted the below about drag:

Originally posted by Buger
While researching some of the variables of drag, I found some good info on Cd and frontal area. An excerpt from the site (http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/groundeffects.shtml) is below:

Coefficient of drag is the most widely used number in relating the Aerodynamic efficiency of a car, and is very misleading. It is just a measure of how much out of 100% (like a barn door) a vehicle lets air flow around it. Typically sports cars have coefficients of between .28 and .45 (Viper roadster uggh!). The better (lower) the number is, the easier it is for air to pass around a car. It can be misleading because I recently read an ad in MT,and it claimed that the '97 Infiniti Q45 has the best CD of any production car (I think it was .27). You don't realize that the car has 10" more height, and a few inches more width than a third generation f-body (length isn't a factor). This means that it has more sq feet of air to push out of the way.

A good example of frontal area is the Mazda Miata. The car has a greater CD than an f-body (camaro?), but because its frontal area is tiny (I think it is 16.5 sq ft), it is more aerodynamically efficient.I use an equation to compare cars with different CD and Frontal Area figure, the number generated is merely a factor to be compared 1:1.

CD x Frontal Area(sq ft) = factor #
It works well for direct comparisons, because doing it the long way would take 10 minutes to compute (true engineering method).

Originally posted by WankelWannabe


If you get a seven and just start dicken around, adding turbos and shit then you WILL blow motors. And then you will come back here saying how unreliable rotaries are and how they suck!

LOL, I'm far from a mechanic, and if I do go the 7 route i'll end up doing my mods and getting advice from the people at MazdaTrix, or Racing Beat.

As far as which car I will end up with, I'll probably have to wait for car and driver to compaire, and then take everything for a test drive or 4.

Hell, maybe I'll just get the Q45 and leave racing all together =P or run down to Motorex and pick up a nice GTR-33 (the 34s cost like $90k+)

either way, thanx for the advice, even you flamers who can't think of anything nice to say, and make that fact known for some odd reason....

wakeech:

While I agree that the STi and Evo are under-engineered, I do think they're designed to do a lot more than go fast in a straight line. It's probably the last thing they're designed to do actually, as they'll break fairly quickly if you do that repeatedly. Oh, and 4-cyl engined vehicles can't be "supercars" ? What about the Porsche 944 and 968 Turbos? Lotus Esprit Turbo? Lotus Elise? Porsche 550 Spyder? I'm sure there's others I can't think of.

Buger:

"It works well for direct comparisons, because doing it the long way would take 10 minutes to compute (true engineering method). "

True engineering method? I believe the simple formula you posted is quite reasonable for comparison. Calculating the force required to move a given shaped mass at a given speed is F = 1/2 * Cd * A * d * v^2 where A is frontal area, d is the density of air and v is velocity. You can use Cd * A as an indicator and it's quite meaningful! That's what Cd is for :) It's literally how the object compares to one of a standard shape with the same frontal area.

Originally posted by rxtreme
JonSnow, if nobody else is going to say it, I will. If you're telling us you beat a Corvette with a Corolla or a Saleen Mustang with a Integra LS, then either:

1) Those cars weren't racing you or
2) It's simply not true


Well, I can see how you know its hard to believe... but if you've ever ran a freeway race, you'll obviously know the better car doesn't always win. The Corvettes big dodge over the Corolla is its monster HP, right? Well monster HP means diddly squat in moderate traffic. And like i said before, if they weren't racing me, they had to go somewhere fast because in both cases speeds got upwards of 115mph.

I may not know the exact mechanics of drag coeffients, or how an engine with forced induction works... What I do know is, that I can drive, and I'm good at it. The question here is though, what will I be driving =P

P.S. right after I beat that Saleen in the LS I got smoked by a modded MR-2 Turbocharged. go figure huh?

What I do know is, that I can drive, and I'm good at it.

lol! Write that down, it will look fantastic on your tombstone :D

Perhaps a trip to a race track or even an autocross would bring you back down to Earth?

and exactly how did you know the mr.2 had been modded and turboed if you were racing on the freeway?

Originally posted by Macabre
True engineering method? I believe the simple formula you posted is quite reasonable for comparison. Calculating the force required to move a given shaped mass at a given speed is F = 1/2 * Cd * A * d * v^2 where A is frontal area, d is the density of air and v is velocity. You can use Cd * A as an indicator and it's quite meaningful! That's what Cd is for :) It's literally how the object compares to one of a standard shape with the same frontal area.

Hi Macabre,

The quoted line and formula was from the link I mentioned

(http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/t...ndeffects.shtml)

and I believe his entire point was that his simple formula was good for direct comparison.

I didn't say that Cd wasn't meaningful. I read Wakeech's earlier msg as saying that the fc had a low .29 Cd because it had a small frontal area.

While the fc does have a nice and low Cd, it is not because it has a small frontal area.

Brian

Originally posted by Jon Snow


P.S. right after I beat that Saleen in the LS I got smoked by a modded MR-2 Turbocharged. go figure huh?

Why do I think that you are a moderator for a "kill stories" list somewhere?

Take Macabre's advice and really test your "skills". At this rate, you're the only one who knows how truely gifted a driver you are.

Here lies Jon Snow, "What I do know is, that I can drive, and I'm good at it." J/K - sorta

Originally posted by Jon Snow
The Corvettes big dodge over the Corolla is its monster HP, right? Well monster HP means diddly squat in moderate traffic. And like i said before, if they weren't racing me, they had to go somewhere fast because in both cases speeds got upwards of 115mph.

Ummm.. you took a Corolla to those speeds while weaving and dodging moderate traffic? Oh man.. ignorance is bliss I guess.. I hope you don't kill anyone else when you crash. Good luck.

Frits: "You two sound like your 50"

First of all learn grammar, it's you're not your. 2nd of all I'm not even close to being 50.. what does age have to do anything with it? Don't you find anything wrong and irresponsible with people racing on a hwy in moderate traffic?

If I had a dollar for everytime I raced a self confessed "great street racer" on an actual track.. bah.. I need a :rolleyes: smiley.. :o

I for one hope Jon doesn't ever buy an RX-8.

There should be an intelligence test and a REAL driving test to get one. Racing on the freeway WITH traffic has nothing to do with skill or the car, and both ways it's stupidity.

Let's close this post, they just take the same direction as other ones.

Originally posted by Quick_lude
I need a :rolleyes: smiley.. :o

You can always steal from another forum and use [ img ] tags http://www.clubb5.com/images_forum/rolleyes.gif :)

yeah what happened to the roll eyes smiley anyway. we used to have one

Is that what you are going to do with every post that has any type of topic dealing with racing or accleration. Some of you that are so adament about never racing would chill when it comes to these posts and stop reiterating your opions then I don't believe posts like this would be a problem. State your opinion and move on.

As for Lude: thanks for correction, even though I believe this forum is informal so in the end does it grammar really matter just as long as I get my point across.

Hehe.. actually the "your" and "you're" grammar thingy is a pet peeve of mine.. :D

Street racing in general is stupid and dangerous to others. I'd much rather prefer they took it to a deserted area where the only people in danger are the drivers.

Originally posted by Quick_lude
Hehe.. actually the "your" and "you're" grammar thingy is a pet peeve of mine.. :D

Street racing in general is stupid and dangerous to others. I'd much rather prefer they took it to a deserted area where the only people in danger are the drivers.
Agreed on that.

Guys,
Sorry about the latest rant of mine, I need to get my head on straight and remember its just a car.

Jon Snow scares the hell out of me. He seems to think it is a sane and fun thing to do to race someone in "traffic" at upwards of 115 mph. I suppose I'm less concerned over whether he or the other driver kills/hurts himself. At least they have some control over that. But what about the innocent folks in those unstable SUVs they just happen to scare the be-jesus out of when they come roaring up behind them?

I'm sorry, I don't think their is any reason to demonstrate your testosterone level on public streets. Like other's here have suggested, go to a real road course or autocross. This street stuff is what gives sports cars a bad name and insurance companies a reason to jack up rates.

I't just plain stupid!

I do recall hercules stating "if you don't have anything nice to say.. not to say anything at all."

yet he goes on making sure every single new member knowns his "opinions" - not only that he proceeds to call people morons etc... why??? - i guess because hercules things he's the best with his millenia :o

if these kind of postings bug you, why do you reply and anger yourself further - do you not realise that you repeat yourself all time???

this forum already has a horrible reputation as far as treatment of new members go - i suggest you keep your trap shut when new members join and are clueless as to the capabilities of this car. I'm sorry, ALMIGHTY hercules, but some individuals are NOT like you and have their opinions on the RX8, which you may not agree with - like how i totally disagree with many of your opinions (but do i or others put you and your opinions down???)

your sarcasitc opinions are extremely rude and should not to be said at all

nb - this post doesn't not reflect the content on this thread, it does reflect hercules's attitude towards new members and myself in previous threads

-don't get me wrong, hercules, you do raise good points and you are fun to debate with - however maybe an attitude adjustment and some patience towards newly registered users will increase traffic in this forum

love,
immi :)

Apparently all you weekend warriors forgot what its like to be young.

Yah, racing on the freeway isn't the brightest thing, infact I think i said that in my VERY FIRST POST... but for all you haters out there, don't call me ignorant for enjoying something that you yourself have done.

I'm willing to bet everyone on here has raced on a freeway, on a street, or what not. Just because I'm good enough to not have died or killed anyone, and you unitesticle crybabies are to scared to do it, so you hate on me. Well Don't worry, I got balls to spare.

You can talk "goto a race track it'll bring you back down to earth." I'll be the first to admit that I'm not ready for a track run, I'm not about to roll my car because I have something to prove to you.

All you people get up on here with your "Mighter then thou" outlook, if you don't like me, shut the hell up. Theres people on here offering up advice to me, if all you can do is bitch about something you have no control over, goto a different thread.

Street racing is where everyone starts. And no matter how much you poeple tell me its the wrong thing to do.. its not gonna stop it. Street racing is the backbone of this industry ladies. I suggest you cope.

hey you haven't answered my question:
and exactly how did you know the mr.2 had been modded and turboed if you were racing on the freeway?

Originally posted by Jon Snow

Street racing is where everyone starts. And no matter how much you poeple tell me its the wrong thing to do.. its not gonna stop it. Street racing is the backbone of this industry ladies. I suggest you cope.

It is true, most people do not take their cars to the tracks.

I'll admit that I have raced on public roads, although I did grow out of it and I realized the dangers when I saw two cars take off from a traffic light and two lights down the road (when i finally caught up) the cars were in an accident - all individuals, as i found out later, died instantly.

I'm young, like yourself, I say enjoy your life - have all the fun you can - but just be responsible about it.

Originally posted by zoom44
hey you haven't answered my question:


He had the obvious mods, body kit, exhaust, and i heard the engine with its intake...

and when he passed me... he made it very clear he had a turbo, by going into high revs, and shifting right as he passed my window.

the loud, "PSSSSSHHHHHHH" from the blow off valve, or whatever the hell it is... tells me it was a turbo....

clear it up for ya? =)

Originally posted by kwolfman
... Like other's here have suggested, go to a real road course or autocross. This street stuff is what gives sports cars a bad name and insurance companies a reason to jack up rates.

It's just plain stupid!

I'm with you on this too!

Yeah, and I am 48 with two young children (I want to live long enough to see them buy their own flying cars ;) ). And yes I remember the feeling of being 16+ :D ... but when I did my speeding, it was on a deserted highway far away from the city traffic and usually very very late at night ... I was very lucky - I never got caught or had an accident doing this (the same for my circle of friends) - but I did (and do) get my share of highway speeding tickets for going 10+ miles over the posted limit even though in my assessment I'm driving much more responsible ... guess it a karma trade off that I can definitely live with.

Look, all I'm trying to say is think of the others on the road (it could be me) that arent racing --- because accidents can and do happen! :(

Originally posted by bwayout

Look, all I'm trying to say is think of the others on the road (it could be me) that arent racing --- because accidents can and do happen! :(

I totatally understand where you're coming from, And I dont wanna die either. And when I do race on the freeway, I take all sorts of factors into concideration. Including other cars, and their drivers.

I'm sure most flamers/haters who post on here think I'm just a young nut who goes out looking for trouble and I race every little thing that comes my way. But i'm not really like that. I've let more then one suped up integ or civic fly by me in a mad rush to race against me. I didn't race because either of rain (which I've never gone more then 75mph in) or heavier traffic.

There are crazies out there, but I try my best to avoid risking life, I go out of my way to not get close to other cars when I race (keeping an open lane on each side of me), and thus far, its paid off, no accidents, a few races lost, but nobodies died while I was racing.

I'm sure thats little comfort, but its the best I can offer.

The fact that should really scare you guys is that I'm the best driver in my crew, and one of the best freeway runners in So Cal. Just think.. theres worse then me!!!!!!! maybe you should never come to so cal =P

I've already stated my opinion on this in the suggestions forum, but I can't help replying again.

Yeah, I thought it was cool to race people at lights when I was 16 too (11 years ago- guess that makes me an aging weekend warrior too, huh?). I grew out of that REALLY fast. Like bwayout, I only did it when there was no one else around or on deserted highways, because even then I knew better than to race in traffic. But even so, it only takes a few close calls and dead friends to make you realize it's not the brightest idea. You wanna street race? Go for it. But do it somewhere where the only person you're going to kill is yourself and the other person racing. The rest of us don't deserve to get hurt/killed by people racing in traffic just because they're "good drivers." Not everyone else is, and it just takes that one little old lady to change lanes right in front of you and it's all over.

Boogs, thanks. cool link.

Macabre: alright alright, i admit... you CAN have really quick exotics with 4 bangers...
you see, the big thing was just to point out that buddy's "supercars" aren't super at all, AND to point him away from all rare things rotary, 'cause i wanna have one someday, and every little bit of conservation helps...

Jon: sure, whatev man, get the Q45 and get out of racing... trust me, a big car you can have sex in without bending over backwards is a really really nice thing to have (as i learned just this last weekend... :) )

I totatally understand where you're coming from, And I dont wanna die either. And when I do race on the freeway, I take all sorts of factors into concideration. Including other cars, and their drivers.
how about taking into consideration the stupidity or carelessness of the other guy racing. maybe he is not nearly the cautious driver you are?
There are crazies out there, but I try my best to avoid risking life, I go out of my way to not get close to other cars when I race (keeping an open lane on each side of me), and thus far, its paid off, no accidents, a few races lost, but nobodies died while I was racing.
what about when the guy you are winning against makes a stupid move to try to catch up?
The fact that should really scare you guys is that I'm the best driver in my crew, and one of the best freeway runners in So Cal. Just think.. theres worse then me!!!!!!! maybe you should never come to so cal =P
i lived in socal for over 2 years 1987-1989. there was a whole mess of freeway shootings duringthose couple of years and i was close to 2 of them. one when i was on the side of the road changing a tire when two racers came by and i guess one didn't like that he was losin' cause they started shooting. so yeah there is worse than you. just remember that they might not care whether you finish the race or not

I believe the original topic was the RX-8 vs. other Japanese supercars. I'll pick up there and leave behind the street racing argument. We do it way too much on this forum and it's getting repetitive.

I'm anxious to see what Toyota will do with their new Supra. After the FD RX-7, I think that was the best sports car to hit America's shores from Japan. I never really liked the NSX that much, I always felt it was overpriced and overrated.

I've said it a few other times and I'll say it again. I don't really like Porsche, so I hope Mazda gives it to them and the rest of the German market with the RX-8. I'm being as optimistic as possible and imagining the 8 as a 911 competitor - just a whole lot cheaper.:D

Originally posted by wakeech
... trust me, a big car you can have sex in without bending over backwards is a really really nice thing to have (as i learned just this last weekend... :) )
hell i thought the bending over backwards was half the fun:D

Jon: hey have all the fun you want, just be careful and watch out for the other people who aren't in the race. i'll get of my soapbox now {gets off the box}

Originally posted by Elara
I've already stated my opinion on this in the suggestions forum, but I can't help replying again.

Me too! I'm sorry, I guess I really enjoy saying "When I was your age ... bla ... bla ... bla ..." (it's one of the joys of being a parent :D )

Originally posted by Jon Snow
... Just think.. theres worse then me!!!!!!! maybe you should never come to so cal =P

Gee ... I'm thinking ... and ....

no matter what any of us say --- time is ticking away and I truly do hope that someday you'll (live long enough to) change your perspective and have this conversation with someone else, but with a role reversal ...

Oh the glorious follys of youth!

:D

On a side note: I was born and raised in Detroit (when it really was the Motor City and cruised Woodward Ave religiously). Back when Chrysler was about to go bankrupt around 1980, I moved to Los Angeles and lived there for 14 1/2 years and then moved down to Laguna Niguel for alittle over 5 years than came to Dallas ...

Back when I was younger, I use to drive down quite a lot to go to a friend's monthly Saturday night party's down in San Diego. and drive back to L.A. around 4 am when the party was over - the point, is you can't imagine how many fliped over firebirds, totaled Camaros and other sport cars that I'd pass by with the firetrucks and paramedics arriving behind me ... sometimes they'd pass me in a blur (the kids not the firetrucks) and than a minute later I'd pass them already totaled (this area was always just before I come up to the Marine Base of the interstate 5) ...

So, yes I know that there are worse drivers out there ... again, I hope you enjoy yourself ... making sure that no one gets hurt

Originally posted by Red Devil
I'm anxious to see what Toyota will do with their new Supra.

Yeah, has anyone seen anything on or about it?

you can't imagine how many fliped over firebirds, totaled Camaros and other sport cars that I'd pass and were totaled by some young kids who were racing each other and ended up badly hurt or worse (this area was always just before I come up to the Marine Base of the interstate 5) ...
Ah yes, the Camp Pendleton International Speedway, 17 miles of nothing but open coastal freeway and few exits. Many a ketchup/burn spot on the shoulder/embankments of that road, only now mixed with Carbon Fiber and fart-can exhausts. Nothing changes, my man.

Originally posted by Immi
I do recall hercules stating "if you don't have anything nice to say.. not to say anything at all."

yet he goes on making sure every single new member knowns his "opinions" - not only that he proceeds to call people morons etc... why??? - i guess because hercules things he's the best with his millenia :o

if these kind of postings bug you, why do you reply and anger yourself further - do you not realise that you repeat yourself all time???

this forum already has a horrible reputation as far as treatment of new members go - i suggest you keep your trap shut when new members join and are clueless as to the capabilities of this car. I'm sorry, ALMIGHTY hercules, but some individuals are NOT like you and have their opinions on the RX8, which you may not agree with - like how i totally disagree with many of your opinions (but do i or others put you and your opinions down???)

your sarcasitc opinions are extremely rude and should not to be said at all

nb - this post doesn't not reflect the content on this thread, it does reflect hercules's attitude towards new members and myself in previous threads

-don't get me wrong, hercules, you do raise good points and you are fun to debate with - however maybe an attitude adjustment and some patience towards newly registered users will increase traffic in this forum

love,
immi :)
See that's the thing.. new users on this forum are notorious for being trolls (ala the "you suck dick" posts), I am very wary, specially starting out with the "I race on the streets and I've beaten XXX car"..

Yea it is a pet peeve, and yes I do go against my own words to keep my mouth shut because frankly I have my own site and if that goes on.. the thread is moved immediately. However I think people on my site by-in-large are pretty good about not posting that kinda crap :)

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to give you a perspective from the other side of the fence. Not from the racing side. Not from the road even.

Sure, I was 16 once too. Raced a Miata....and won!;) Got a ticket for it too! :( That calmed me down real quick.

I am very glad that I stayed calmed down. Because I began to see the effects of this kind of behavior in the hospitals.

I can't count how many times I have treated a driver in the ER after getting in a crash. Whether it be racing, drunk driving, whatever. Believe it or not, a lot of these people do very well. What really busts my ass, though, is the person or people in the next bed who did nothing wrong other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. To see them on a ventilator, wearing a c-collar.....you get the idea. For some reason, they are always hurt more severely than those who caused the accident.

Innocent people hurt because of others stupidity.....sorry, I don't care how careful you are. It doesn't matter if the road looks empty. It doesn't matter if you are the best driver on earth. Rules are there for a reason and people get hurt when they are broken.

The leading traumatic cause of death in all first world countries is motor vehicular related........I wonder why?

Hey Mods, I'm curious why this hasn't been shut down yet. What's the ruling on threads like this?

Originally posted by Jon Snow
don't call me ignorant for enjoying something that you yourself have done.
...
I'm willing to bet everyone on here has raced on a freeway, on a street, or what not.
...
Street racing is where everyone starts.

Wrong. Most AutoXers and (real) racers that I know don't race on public streets because they understand car dynamics, road conditions, and their own limitations. Once they get a taste of real racing, road racing's intrigue disappears. I've never raced on public roads, yet I do autocross and plan on doing some track days when I have a car that's allowed to. I'm not that old, either.

Originally posted by Jon Snow
You can talk "goto a race track it'll bring you back down to earth." I'll be the first to admit that I'm not ready for a track run, I'm not about to roll my car because I have something to prove to you.
If you're not ready for a track run, go to an autocross. I'd imagine that there are plenty in So Cal, and they're a safe way to get some much needed humility. Besides, the skills you learn there may help you stay alive and win some "races" if you decide to continue. Also, why are you concerned about rolling your car if you're such a good driver?

On to your real question. I'd agree that the RX-8 doesn't sound like it's for you. For the same money (~$30K), you could buy a nice car for $10k and add $20k worth of mods. :eek: There's no way an RX-8 can be made into a competetive deathtrap as quickly as a used car.
Good luck, I sincerely hope you don't kill anyone else when you die in a race.

Conversations are civil thus far and havent violated the basic terms of service agreement and all opinions are welcome if they don't denegrate into flame wars. Carry on. :)

My piece:
Imho, No car will teach you about RWD track/road-handling dynamics more than the Mazda Miata, regardless of an undeserved so-called "social stigma". Too bad too, we'd all be better drivers for it. The Miata can be tossed into situations where serious HP would get you in trouble, yet allow drivers to recover and learn from their "adventure" real quickly. I'm sure Sputnik(our resident Miata-phile) can comment. ;)

Just to let you know, I held back on flaming for a good long while, but like popeye says, i've taken all i can takes, and i can't takes no more!

This is gonna be my last post, because the help i seek, is obviously not to be found on these boards.

Originally posted by Rich
I've never raced on public roads,


well, thats either BS, or you've never road raced because where you live theres only dirt roads, and no cars to race against.

Originally posted by Rich
why are you concerned about rolling your car if you're such a good driver?

I know more people who have rolled their car while doing normal driving than who have racing. The first thing I buy for any car i plan on going fast in, is a roll cage, so I don't die.

Originally posted by Rich

I sincerely hope you don't kill anyone else when you die in a race.

Thats a pretty mean thing to say, but a nice way of putting it. Well, I just may die in a race, due to my being seen in some local magazines(for my "dangerous" driving skills as you guys see it), and I just talked to RSR, and they've agreed to sponcer me.

They're going to send me to that Viper training school out the desert. (nice and safe right guys?!) According to you guys who've never seen me drive.. I can't get anyworse right!!! Well I'll see all you doubty-mustaphas, on the track.


To all of those who have been helpfull, thanks a bunch.
for all those who haven't been helpfull... i'm going anyways, so bye.

Seriously hope the RX-8 aint a lemon. :p

Yours truely, "The Huntington Beach Driftout", Tevs Hennessey.

Don't make me quote Shakespeare...*twist my arm* :)

"The choices in life we make dictate the lives we lead;"

If you believe that public street/highway racing is cool, that's fine. Just be physically and financially prepared to accept the ugly(very ugly) consequences. Check out Streetracing.org (http://www.sromagazine.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?forumid=22) for a West Coast Law Enforcement standpoint. Enable your Private Messaging in your profile if you want to discuss off the record. :)

P.S. Keep the showboating/racing/road-testing on the track or deserted remote areas, but if you hit my wife and kid during one of your street-racing escapades, well... (muffles my opinion as an admin)

Originally posted by Toadman
Enable your PM in your profile, guy. Let's talk off the record, Jon. :)
Pssst Jon Toadman is a undercover reporter you're gonna be taped! :D

Shaddap, Herc. ;)

I being a junior member I realize that i don't cary much wait but i believe that the attitude of do what you will beccuse i cant stop you is not enough. For reasons i will not discuss John's idea of fun on the free ways is as we all realize very dangerous and that the consequences are not a question of if or when but how bad. If John takes his own health or life in this senseless act it will be a tragedy, HOWEVER if he takes another life this will be something of horrific porportions. It saddens me that there is nothing more that those who realize the dangers can do. We cannot babysit the ignorant and slap their wrist when they break rules. The worst part of beliving ones self to be invinceable is that the belive will cary over to those around you. And though it has never happened to some for those who have seen such a situation it is a tragic and sobering experience. No one has the right to take anothe life be it on purpose or accident, experince can only teach those who it touches and its price as a tutor is high.

Post counts mean little(and always will, guaranteed) and give little credence to opinion, trekkerz. Quality and not quantity counts. Jot that down.. ;)

Originally posted by Toadman
Post counts mean little(and always will, guaranteed) and give little credence to opinion, trekkerz. Quality and not quantity counts. Jot that down.. ;) Amen :)

Originally posted by Hercules
Amen :)

heh heh:p

Stupid "Van Wilder" fans. :)

thank ya

I love racing. I do. My father in law has a 1989 Mustang with a custom built engine with at least 400 ponies, even higher torque, and a 4.10 gear ratio. He estimates a 3.4 second 0-60 and an even 11 seconds on the quarter mile. He doesn't trust his 63 year old reflexes enough to push the envelope, so the best he's recorded thus far was 4 on the 0-60. He won't drive faster than 75, so he doesn't know his quarter mile. But even with a monster like that, he's too smart to take risks. If someone wants to drag race at a stop light, he'll go right to 60... and then stay there, no matter what the other guy does.

It's a shame that there aren't more public race tracks available. You have to look pretty hard to find places (as far as I know) that will let anyone who wants to come in and drag race or track race street legal cars. Neighbors don't like the noise, I guess. Plus, I'm sure the insurance on a track costs a fortune. It sucks but that's the way it is.

Every 10 mph of speed you have is 14.66 feet per second. If you're in traffic at 115 mph, that's a shade under 170 feet per second. I don't care who you are, your reflexes are going to positively suck at that speed. Even worse, the other drivers won't be able to judge your movements with any accuracy. If I want to pass a slow driver and I see someone 200' behind in my rear view coming about 15 mph faster than me, I have around 9 seconds to pass and get out of his way. If I speed up a little, it will be 12 to 15 seconds. If I floor it, I might match his speed. If you're in my rear view going 60 mph faster than me, and I don't realize you're going that fast, I have less than 3 seconds before you cover the 200 feet. If I start the passing maneuver one second later, you can't possibly brake fast enough to avoid hitting me. It doesn't matter how hard I floor it, you'll be on top of me.

Two people were killed near me this year. They were drag racing at 115 on an empty four lane road when someone who didn't realize how fast they were going pulled onto the road from an on ramp (exactly the scenario I described). One guy lost control and crossed the median into oncoming traffic. He was going about 80 mph when he hit another car doing 60 head on. That's almost -but not quite- the physics equivalient to running your car into a brick wall at 200 feet per second. Just think about that for a second. The drivers of both cars somehow survived with multiple injuries, but the drag racer's fiance and best friend were torn to pieces, along with both cars.

Nascar drivers have nicely oval tracks, excellent visibility, superb maneuvarability, superior brakes, and they even know how fast the other cars are going. They still get into accidents on the track all of the time.

When I have a hankering to weave in and out of traffic at high speeds, I'll buy Crazy Taxi or Grand Theft Auto.

Hows abou tbeing mature and not racing? I know that it sounds really pussy. If ya wanna beat them, get a big block V8. Hell whack a chevy Gen3 into something light, whack a super on it and you'll shit all over those rickshaws and you'l lsound touger. In Fast and the Furious, would you rather win in the Orange Supra or the Black Charger, which looked Tougher?