I'm tossing around the idea of picking up an RX-8 in the next year or so. I currently autoX a D-Stock 2006 WRX. I know it's always cheaper to buy a used car already prepped for BS, but if I had to start with a clean slate, what will a decent BS set-up cost?

As it stands, the items I see myself needing at a minimum are:

2nd set of wheels
245/35/18 V710's
ots koni SA's
FSB

Are the RX-8 wheel studs strong or should they all be switched out to something stronger? Btw, what are the sizes of the stock swaybars on the RX-8? Is anything gained by using a larger FSB?

Thanks.

Chike

Wheels = $400 for used oem, $1200 for 18.4lbs OZ Ultraleggera, $??? for custom build Kodiak, Jongbloed etc.

Tires = $1100 for Kumhos w/shipping.

Konis = $550 from DPE (last I checked)

FSB = Stock is fine, I drilled an extra hole each side to make it adjustable within a narrow range. Others (like Jason) run the MS bar, which is probably just about the same stiffness as a stock bar with both end links moved forward as much as possible. Matthew and I also experimented with the Whiteline adjustable, which I plan on putting back on the car soon...we only ran it with the 285 Hoosiers and I'm curious to see what it's like with the Kumhos.

Wheel studs are fine, just use a little anti seize to prevent galling. Also, when you get new wheels, get some decent lug nuts.

You could have less than $2000 in prep and have a Nationally competitive car, in summary. :)

My $0.02:

Wheels: http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Part/21-1051b.html ($289 x 4)

Sway Bar: http://progressauto.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=382 ($162.35)

My $0.02:

Wheels: http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Part/21-1051b.html ($289 x 4)

Sway Bar: http://progressauto.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=382 ($162.35)

The OP mentioned a B Stock setup, which means wheels must be OEM diameter and width, with offset within +/- .25" of OEM. The wheels you linked to aren't B Stock legal.

Thanks folks. I chatted with my wife a little more and she's all about me switching cars - she loves the RX-8!!!

Couple more questions:

1) Stock wheels are 18x8 correct? What's the stock offset? Also what do stock wheels weigh?
2) What are the sizes of the swaybars on the RX-8? How big is the MS bar that Isley runs?

Also, for those of you that autoX your cars regularly, how much oil do you typically need to add between oil changes? Is there model year that's the best to have for BS?

Muffler delete - free
FSB - $250
Koni SAs - $550
Used OE wheels w/Kumho V710s - $1600
Driving well enough to beat the big dogs - priceless :cwm27:

Tires will be your biggest and most common expense at roughly $1200 shipped, mounted and balanced......Wheels, shocks, swaybars and exhaust can be expensive but most of that money you'll get back if you take them off when you go to sell the car.

Alignment is also another expense to be considered......I would factor $200 for a good alignment even though it can be had for less.

I see Baggy has mellowed down considerably since the day of telling newbs to do search =)

All the questions OP posted can be found in this sub-forum. Let me throw my $.02 and say you can have the most expensive RX-8 setup, and still lag behind on the National-level. We have had many established/trophied Natl-level autocrossers piloting RX-8, but still coming up short of Isley. He's able to consistently drive the RX-8 fast, notwithstanding the condition of the tire/site.

Just do tire and you will win the regional-level if you are decent. Otherwise, you are in the long haul for National in a RX-8. Hope this advice saves you money.

what? I thought he did search. :suspect: Please tell me if he didn't ... :Kill2:

I've been autocrossing for roughly 1.5yrs and did an Evo school this Spring. I'm still starting out in this sport, but I'm looking to gain experience driving a well-balanced rwd car. I considered a 350Z briefly, but putting tires on that thing is expensive. The RX-8 is much cheaper to buy r-comps for and is way more practical of a daily driver for a guy w/ a family such as myself.

I appreciate everyone's input.

As everyone else here has pointed out, competitive tires are roughly $1200 a set for the '8, but the car is relatively light with good camber curves, so it doesn't chew through tires as fast as something like a 3300-lb camber-limited sedan. :)

The stock wheel size is 18"x8", with a +50mm offset. OEM wheels weigh in about 22(?) lbs per wheel, iirc.

I couldn't tell you the front bar size off the top of my head, but the MS bar is only about 15% stiffer than stock. FWIW, Keith Casey's raw times last year at Nats would have put him in 3rd (if he hadn't coned every run on Day 2) in a car with the factory front bar.

Basically all you need to have a Nationally competitive RX-8 is a spare set of wheels, a set of OTS Konis, and a set of tires. And a good driver.

I couldn't tell you the front bar size off the top of my head, but the MS bar is only about 15% stiffer than stock. FWIW, Keith Casey's raw times last year at Nats would have put him in 3rd (if he hadn't coned every run on Day 2) in a car with the factory front bar.

Basically all you need to have a Nationally competitive RX-8 is a spare set of wheels, a set of OTS Konis, and a set of tires. And a good driver.
Many thanks Iain. I know KC pretty well on-line as we both hang out on NASIOC quite a bit - I've sent him an e-mail to get his input on set-up but he's in upstate NY right now checking in for the Finger Lakes Pro Solo.

Mazda typically uses pretty healthy swaybars, but I am interested in finding out how big the stock one is - I've tried multiple searches and turned up nothing.

and the year before a bigger front bar would have won had GH Sharp not coned; blah-blah-blah, coulda-woulda-shoulda ... we've been down that road a million times, along with high rear camber vs low rear camber, etc. etc., bottom line is it really comes down to the driver which so far has been Ulllose

OE front bar is 27mm OD x 3.4mm wall thickness

OE front bar is 27mm OD x 3.4mm wall thicknessPerfect. Thanks.

The OP mentioned a B Stock setup, which means wheels must be OEM diameter and width, with offset within +/- .25" of OEM. The wheels you linked to aren't B Stock legal.

Show you how much I know about B-Stock! Thanks for correcting.

As
The stock wheel size is 18"x8", with a +50mm offset. OEM wheels weigh in about 22(?) lbs per wheel, iirc.



Are you sure about that?

I thought they were 18x 8x 45mm offset

:beer:

WTF nobody told the newb to search. :yelrotflm

I think everyone has covered it pretty well, less the couple of posters that don't have a clue what solo stock class is about or what comes stock on the RX8. :dunno:

btw the Mazdaspeed bar I have is 27.2mm dia and 4mm wall, just a tiny bit stiffer than stock. Just drill an extra hole in the stock bar and you can get most of the way there. However after you dump and awd push monster you might like an RX8 with a Racing Beat front bar. :naughty:

I would love to chat more but I need to get some sleep so I can make full use of my weekend at Mid-Ohio. :smiley309

Are you sure about that?

I thought they were 18x 8x 45mm offset

:beer:

Nope, Altiain is right, it's 50 mm.

Just try to find your setup used. I bought used shocks, exhaust, wheels and a drop in K&N. The one thing that I bought new is tires.

One last question folks - with 245/35/18 V710's, what's the max speed you're able to reach in 2nd gear?

However after you dump and awd push monster you might like an RX8 with a Racing Beat front bar. :naughty:
LOL! Thanks for your input Jason. My D-stock WRX is set-up quite loose with a good deal of toe out in the rear. I may try to co-drive with someone locally in the coming months who has one - then take my plans from there.

...still coming up short of Isley. He's able to consistently drive the RX-8 fast, notwithstanding the condition of the tire/site.



Yep, consistent is the key to Jason being the man...even mid packers have been able to get by him on any given day, but not when it counts...;)
(edit: I should have said "consistent is one of the keys", as ULLLLLLLLLLOSE also seems to be able to go "above and beyond" quick, as well, on certain days...like day one of this year's El Toro Pro...the point I was making is that he never seems to have an exceptionally bad day, unlike most of us!)

Seriously, if you want to run a RX8, I'd just find a used base model with low miles, year doesn't matter, get a set of Konis, a set of used oem wheels with V710's and an alignment and go run it...if you want to upgrade to lighter wheels, you can use the oem's for rain tires :)

Seriously, if you want to run a RX8, I'd just find a used base model with low miles, year doesn't matter, get a set of Konis, a set of used oem wheels with V710's and an alignment and go run it...if you want to upgrade to lighter wheels, you can use the oem's for rain tires :)
Thanks. I'm thinking new at the moment unless I come across a sweet deal for a used RX-8 that's B-stock prepped within a reasonable driving distance of central VA. Looks like some new '07 models can be had for 22.7K in my area.

I'm going to finish up this season with my WRX as I have a set of 245/40/17 Hoosiers that still have lots of life in them. I'll be switching cars in the winter and 2008 is when I plan to start running full-time in a new class. The RX-8 is definitely at the top of my list right now... :cool:

Btw, any idea what the max speed is in 2nd gear on 245/35/18 V710's when banging off the rev limiter?

Btw, any idea what the max speed is in 2nd gear on 245/35/18 V710's when banging off the rev limiter?

maxQdata says 62.7 mph, 62 on a radar gun, with the 245-35-18 VS 64ish with stock.

BTW, to answer a couple of your earlier questions that no one else touched on:

I typically use 1-1.5 quarts between oil changes. I won't open up the whole dino vs. synthetic debate except to say this - I'm a die hard Mobil 1 fan (and a powertrain design engineer by trade), but I use dino oil in my RX-8, as I have in every rotary I've ever owned. My overall oil cost at 2500 mile change intervals with Castrol GTX in the RX-8 is roughly the same as it is using Mobil 1 with 5000 mile change intervals in my wife's CR-V.

Regarding which model you want - any 6-speed RX-8 will already come standard with the limited slip, the 18" wheels, and the suspension package you want. They are all the same. Avoid sunroof cars unless you're a midget. They rob a lot of headroom, and the RX-8 doesn't have a lot of headroom to begin with.

I'd look for a Base (renamed the Sport for '07) model, or a Sport (renamed the "Performance Package" for '07). The Base gives you everything you need, but the Sport adds (defeatable) traction control, HIDs, and fog lights, which make the car a nicer daily driver imho. Contrary to what some people may suggest (ahem, Baggy :) ), the Sport Package probably adds less than fifteen total pounds to the vehicle.

maxQdata says 62.7 mph, 62 on a radar gun, with the 245-35-18 VS 64ish with stock.
Just what I was looking for - thanks Jason.BTW, to answer a couple of your earlier questions that no one else touched on:

I typically use 1-1.5 quarts between oil changes. I won't open up the whole dino vs. synthetic debate except to say this - I'm a die hard Mobil 1 fan (and a powertrain design engineer by trade), but I use dino oil in my RX-8, as I have in every rotary I've ever owned. My overall oil cost at 2500 mile change intervals with Castrol GTX in the RX-8 is roughly the same as it is using Mobil 1 with 5000 mile change intervals in my wife's CR-V.

Regarding which model you want - any 6-speed RX-8 will already come standard with the limited slip, the 18" wheels, and the suspension package you want. They are all the same. Avoid sunroof cars unless you're a midget. They rob a lot of headroom, and the RX-8 doesn't have a lot of headroom to begin with.

I'd look for a Base (renamed the Sport for '07) model, or a Sport (renamed the "Performance Package" for '07). The Base gives you everything you need, but the Sport adds (defeatable) traction control, HIDs, and fog lights, which make the car a nicer daily driver imho. Contrary to what some people may suggest (ahem, Baggy :) ), the Sport Package probably adds less than fifteen total pounds to the vehicle.
Great info - I personally will be keeping my eye out for a base Sport model...but the "performance package" does add some very nice tid bits. :cool:

I only know what we saw on the SCCA scales using a 2005 Base and 2004 Sport, supposedly the weights changed some with later models

I only know what we saw on the SCCA scales using a 2005 Base and 2004 Sport, supposedly the weights changed some with later models
Is weight going up slightly in the later model years?

If I recall, the later models are heavier, due to beefed up safety requirements...somewhere between 60-80 lbs...

To reiterate :) Make sure you sit in one with your helmet on ! I autocrossed mine for the first time a couple of weeks ago and could not get comfortable. I have no sunroof and tried all sorts of seat positions :( Good news is its got way more torque than my S2000 !

good luck
john

To reiterate :) Make sure you sit in one with your helmet on ! I autocrossed mine for the first time a couple of weeks ago and could not get comfortable. I have no sunroof and tried all sorts of seat positions :( Good news is its got way more torque than my S2000 !

good luck
john


Yeah, and you kicked my butt too....
See ya Friday John!

Yeah, and you kicked my butt too....
See ya Friday John!

beginners luck !

Toledo Pro here we come :)

If I recall, the later models are heavier, due to beefed up safety requirements...somewhere between 60-80 lbs...

I have heard no such thing or seen any data to support it.

lol, I recall you were the one who posted it, meh maybe not :dunno:

^^^Bingo....I can't find the post for the life of me though

lol, I recall you were the one who posted it, meh maybe not :dunno:

Yeah I posted it as a joke to poke mwood.... Funny how some guys take that as fact. :lol2:

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1868578&postcount=486

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1868683&postcount=488

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1868746&postcount=490

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1868827&postcount=491

I read it on the web it must be true.... :uhh:

Yeah I posted it as a joke to poke mwood.... Funny how some guys take that as fact. :lol2:

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1868578&postcount=486

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1868683&postcount=488

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1868746&postcount=490

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1868827&postcount=491

I read it on the web it must be true.... :uhh:

Yeah, that was one time that I wasn't too gullible...saw right through that one...might have been the "crankshaft" comment ;)

Anyhow, you could make an argument that my car is lighter, at race weight, than Jason's...even more so when Matthew is driving :lol2:

Yeah I posted it as a joke to poke mwood.... Funny how some guys take that as fact. :lol2:

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1868578&postcount=486

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1868683&postcount=488

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1868746&postcount=490

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1868827&postcount=491

I read it on the web it must be true.... :uhh:


Wasn't saying it was a fact, just that I recalled hearing it...

To reiterate :) Make sure you sit in one with your helmet on ! I autocrossed mine for the first time a couple of weeks ago and could not get comfortable. I have no sunroof and tried all sorts of seat positions :(
Thanks. I'll definitely take head room into consideration as I'm 6ft 1in in height. If I trade my present car in, it will be definitely be for an RX-8 at this point. ;)

With that said, I'm also considering doing another season with my 2.5L WRX in DS where I will focus primarily on Pro Solos (in whatever shape or form it takes in 2008). As I've only been doing this sport for 1.5yrs, my car is still lacking koni struts, and part of me is hesitant to get rid of the car when I haven't given it a fair shake at DS.

We'll see...lots to think about. :banghead:

Good news is its got way more torque than my S2000 !

good luck
john

No it doesn't, it just feels like it. S2000 makes more power/torque everywhere, I drive/race both regularly.

I've also been tinkering with selling my low mileage 2005 RX-8 in the near future. It's setup for STU/BSP right now but just change the wheels/tires and take the MS springs out and it's ready to go. PM me if you're interested later.

try again, the S2000 is quite a bit lighter than an RX-8 so the "feel" is different, you're statement isn't true in every case as noted

and like I said; supposedly, as in "supposedly Uuulose knows what he's talking about" :stickpoke

Wrong again, the S2000 is maybe 150 pounds lighter than a B-stock RX-8 (2750 S2K, 2900 RX-8). Also as far as power goes the S2000 (even the 2.0L F20C) LITERALLY makes more torque than the RX-8 across the powerband, go look at a dyno and you'll see what i mean.

in full SCCA Stock trim you can get an RX-8 Base model down to around 2830#

same for an S2k is 2610#, saw it myself on the SCCA scales, now imagine how a 2600# RX-8 would feel ...

I did look, but it boils down to which RX-8 graph you're looking at, some are miserably poor, others not ...

Of course totally off topic now [ unless chiketkd is considering an S2000 also ], but you might be right, but it sure seems like the RX8 is faster from about 10 to 30/40 MPH [ i.e. coming out of slow corners on small courses ]. I guess you would have to look at the gearing as well as the engine torque.

have fun
john

You got it, the S2000 only has a 4.10 FD stock so the RX-8 has a bit of gearing advantage. Don't get me wrong, I love both cars and autocross both on any given weekend (RX-8 with the local BMW club and S2000 with the local S2000 club) They're both enjoyable in their own ways, but as far as power goes I have to give the edge to the S2000.

Of course totally off topic now [ unless chiketkd is considering an S2000 also ]
Actually I was...along with an '07+ 350Z, but the RX-8 will be what I'll go with next when I'm ready to change cars.

I drove an A-stock S2000 (on fresh A6's) at a regional autoX event last weekend - great little car and it felt very fast. I haven't co-driven an RX-8, so I'm not sure if its any peppier coming out of slow corners or not...

Too funny. Well I don't think you can go wrong with any of those cars, they all are fun and competitive right now. The RX8 does win however if you need to carry 4 people once in a while, and your head fits in with a helmet on ;)

take care
john

well I was looking at the 2.0L S2k graphs, not the 2.2L

well I was looking at the 2.0L S2k graphs, not the 2.2L

The 2.2L's actually make 5-10 more peak whp and more midrange torque, they just don't rev as high.

I'm looking at getting an 05 sport with 7500 miles for B-Stock. How much slower, if at all, do people estimate the sport to be, compared to the base? Should I hold out for a base?

Any other B-Stock buying tips? Thanks to all those who have replied thus far; this thread has been very informative.

How much slower, if at all, do people estimate the sport to be, compared to the base?

Quite a bit, possibly, when you forget to turn off DSC. Other than that, the difference, if one exists at all, would be negligible.

Quite a bit, possibly, when you forget to turn off DSC. Other than that, the difference, if one exists at all, would be negligible.

I've read some older threads that imply that the DSC is turned off by holding the button for 7+ seconds. Has that been confirmed to be the fastest mode by solo drivers? (I'm assuming it is, otherwise the base wouldn't be the preferred trim.)

I've read some older threads that imply that the DSC is turned off by holding the button for 7+ seconds. Has that been confirmed to be the fastest mode by solo drivers? (I'm assuming it is, otherwise the base wouldn't be the preferred trim.)
Yes. Drive the car yourself with the stability control on and the answer will be obvious.

I've read some older threads that imply that the DSC is turned off by holding the button for 7+ seconds. Has that been confirmed to be the fastest mode by solo drivers? (I'm assuming it is, otherwise the base wouldn't be the preferred trim.)

In anything less that a total downpour, running with the traction control on is not the fastest way around a course. Thankfully, the RX-8's traction control is fully defeatable using the method you mentioned.

Regarding weight, we weighed Jason's '05 Base (the 2-time reigning Nat Champ car) in Houston back-to-back on the same scales against my '04 Sport. My car came up 5lbs heavier. Jason had a touch more fuel, but even factoring that in I don't think that the Sport Package adds anything more than 15 pounds at the most. To me, that 15 pounds is well worth the extra equipment in a daily driven car. Your mileage may vary.

Wheels = $400 for used oem, $1200 for 18.4lbs OZ Ultraleggera, $??? for custom build Kodiak, Jongbloed etc.

Tires = $1100 for Kumhos w/shipping.

Konis = $550 from DPE (last I checked)

FSB = Stock is fine, I drilled an extra hole each side to make it adjustable within a narrow range. Others (like Jason) run the MS bar, which is probably just about the same stiffness as a stock bar with both end links moved forward as much as possible. Matthew and I also experimented with the Whiteline adjustable, which I plan on putting back on the car soon...we only ran it with the 285 Hoosiers and I'm curious to see what it's like with the Kumhos.

Wheel studs are fine, just use a little anti seize to prevent galling. Also, when you get new wheels, get some decent lug nuts.

You could have less than $2000 in prep and have a Nationally competitive car, in summary. :)


I was really interested in the how you drilled the FSB. You woudn't have any pics would you? :dunno:

man!
you guys have a whole lot of info here. Since I am completely new to the whole game here and i'd like to autoX mi RX8 so now here is my question :

I have a bone stock RX8
Any mods or preparation that I should do before doing autoX?
What class my RX8 can classify being completely stock?

man!
you guys have a whole lot of info here. Since I am completely new to the whole game here and i'd like to autoX mi RX8 so now here is my question :

I have a bone stock RX8
Any mods or preparation that I should do before doing autoX?
What class my RX8 can classify being completely stock?


I think it's all pretty much covered in this thread...but, completely stock or prepared (shocks, DOT R tires, etc.) for stock class, you still run in B stock with SCCA. Your region may have a street tire class, in which case you would run against other stock class cars (if running your normal street tires) using an index to "handicap" according to potential performance, if that makes sense.

In any case, there's really not much needed to go autocross...make sure the tires have air, remove all loose stuff from the trunk and interior, bring your helmet or borrow one on site, and go have fun.

If you are up for some prep, I'd suggest first doing a performance alignment, starting with bumping up negative camber in front and working from there...how much is something that you migh want to compromise on, because once you start getting over -1.2 or so, it will impact tire wear on the street. But, the benefit in terms of having fun autocrossing is well worth having to flip the tires on the rim, side to side, every 5-6000 miles...you also won't grind the outer sidewalls while autocrossing, so it's probably a wash. Set rear camber a couple tenths more negative than front and keep your toe at effective zero front and rear...that may not be the optimal autocross set up, but toe out is what will kill tires, much faster than the -1.2 to -1.7 front camber value most stock RX8's are getting.

Next step is finding a set of rims and getting some dedicated autocross tires...at which point you might as well throw the $500-600 for a set of SA Konis...:lol: