good to see you at the Oakland event...nice of you to come slum with the NorCal boys. Too bad the course was so short and the surface is becoming sketch, it was a beautiful day...oh yeah, cones suck, imho :lol2:

http://markm.zenfolio.com/p514123632?photo=h25D4461A#634668570

Statistic: All of the top 10 PAX times came out of either run group 1 or run group 2...I guess that says it all, in terms of how the surface at Oakland is "coming along"...it's a shame they did such a poor job of reslurrying (is that a word?) the lot.


BS was lucky to run heat 1 (man, that sounds strange), but even if I hadn't coned my 33.7, I still wouldn't have caught Heitcotter for #1 PAX (would've missed him by a tenth). Matt and I ended up with quite a battle, with only 5/100's separating my fastest clean run and his time. He's really starting to get used to the RX8 and the rest of us in SFR better watch out! :)

Baggy's car looked good, but his times were off a bit...what's the story?

Pretty sure it's Baggy standing in the upper right hand corner in the photo, and my car with class magnet gone missing: http://markm.zenfolio.com/p514123632?photo=h25D4461A#996044396.

Mike and Matt are basically the front-runners in overall PAX and BS nowadays. More catching up to do as the rest of us slowly chip the gap away. The gap is narrowing down for sure for me =)

Caught Mark rotating his car beautifully past the first left-hander just after the start. Hope to see both you and dknv making the rest of season in SFR.

Steve, you've really picked up the pace last two events. It may be your turn to take the class at round 14 :)

Of course, I do plan on getting back on track and going quickly, again ;)

guess it was my weekend to drive like sh-t :( the car was capable, but the driver got in the way :cwm27: coning the first two runs wasn't so bad as not being able to find out where :dunno: never heard or saw either, no marks on the car, and nobody could tell me anything :rolleyes:, must have rolled over the bases or something

gotta agree that the site goes off as the day goes on ...

and that wasn't me in Steve's pic, I was working in grid when BS ran ...

I saw you driving over the base of the first slalom cone on 1st and 2nd run. Technically, it's not part of the showcase slalom cones, but the one leading into them as you round off the beginning left-sweep and turning right. You rock the base, standing still not sure if in the box. Looked fine from afar.

OK, I was just trying to pull a fast one to get my photo into the thread =)

Thanks Mike! It's great to have Reza being my sounding board. We will continue to feed off each other and do better. He took top raw time with 32.7 btw, a very good driver up-and-coming!

LOL, just remembered that I forgot all about fixing that front swaybar endlink with the nut galled tight halfway off, it's flopping around in the swaybar hole ... :uh:

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1919973&postcount=124

33 - 34 seconds for an autocross course:wtf: Top it off with a site that totally goes away after a few cars run on it......I guess I didn't miss much.

You missed Alex's bad betting streak for one. $5 for over 1.5sec off my pace on his MX (ended up 2sec off). I need to get in on the action too, rather than handing his money to the counter-party (j/k).

The gravel is not that bad as long as we run 1st or 2nd heat. Besides, you still need to hand the Bilstein-RX8 to Mike for testing right?! =)

http://picasaweb.google.com/everbruin/Autocross/photo#5087623035574420770

Video of M3 that took 1st in STU.

Are you really sure it was him under the bag?

my inconsistent hack driving gave it away ... :lol2:

my inconsistent hack driving gave it away ... :lol2:

We all have our turn to drive like shxt...I've been disappointed the last two events with my mistake per run ratio...way too high:wallbash:

Consistency seems to be hard to acheive, but is a huge part of the great success of guys like ULLLOSE and other National champs. I think Jason told me his first Nationals win he was 2nd one day, 3rd the other...not blowing the doors off either day, but CONSISTENTLY right on the number:)

33 - 34 seconds for an autocross course:wtf: Top it off with a site that totally goes away after a few cars run on it......I guess I didn't miss much.

I don't know, site looks nice and open compared to some regions. The sound of gravel/marbles coming off the street tires in the video is a bit unnerving however...

The sound is somewhat exaggerated in that video but the gravel is definitely, shall we say, plentiful.

Just look at what this poor driver finds a bit off line: http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/81338183/original

We all have our turn to drive like shxt...

OK, I'm tired of it being my turn. :spank: I think it's been 2 years now. :rant:

Who's next?

I don't know, site looks nice and open compared to some regions. The sound of gravel/marbles coming off the street tires in the video is a bit unnerving however...

You're right, it does look like a fun, open course and it's probably better then a slow, techincal 60 second course. But still, 30 seconds?? It's like a Pro Solo course that you only get to drive 3 times......:puke:

You're right, it does look like a fun, open course and it's probably better then a slow, techincal 60 second course. But still, 30 seconds?? It's like a Pro Solo course that you only get to drive 3 times......:puke:

The event chair was a first time course designer...hey, he took on the chair responsibility, so he gets to do his own course! There was a whole bunch of asphalt that wasn't used, this time. He's a good guy, though, acknowledged the deficiency and plans to utilize more of the available space, next time.

Usually, we can get a good blend of speed and technical and still have 45 seconds or so, at Oakland. No 60 second plus courses, like Candlestick, but also no yumps:uhh:

The event chair was a first time course designer...hey, he took on the chair responsibility, so he gets to do his own course! There was a whole bunch of asphalt that wasn't used, this time. He's a good guy, though, acknowledged the deficiency and plans to utilize more of the available space, next time.

Usually, we can get a good blend of speed and technical and still have 45 seconds or so, at Oakland. No 60 second plus courses, like Candlestick, but also no yumps:uhh:

SFR used to incorporate loops in their design to keep the courses a little bit longer and allow for more vehicles to be on the course at one time. I'm not saying the Chair didn't do his best but I think there needs to be some standards in course design.

it's a common regional problem in general :icon_no2:

There used to be a guy on radio around the SF Bay Area who's tag line was, "If you don't like the news, go out and make some yourself"...I think something similar is called for regarding course complaints...:spank:

There used to be a guy on radio around the SF Bay Area who's tag line was, "If you don't like the news, go out and make some yourself"...I think something similar is called for regarding course complaints...:spank:

Is that why there is the AAS series?

Is that why there is the AAS series?


Nah, AAS came about to give real cars a place to play, without the incessant buzzing about of hordes of shitliners ;)

Nah, AAS came about to give real cars a place to play, without the incessant buzzing about of hordes of shitliners ;)



Boy was I misinformed... I was told it was for old crusty Corvette guys that can only go fast in a strait line. :lol2:

Boy was I misinformed... I was told it was for old crusty Corvette guys that can only go fast in a strait line. :lol2:

You be the judge (most recent event, top 15):


1 Jeff Kiesel M Sprite 42.126
2 Bob Weisickle M Austin Healy 100-8 43.253
3 Joel Villarreal CP Camaro Z28 43.585
4 Jesus Villarreal CP Camaro Z28 43.746
5 Barry Spencer M Sprite 43.892
6 Tom Smiley BP CORVETTE 43.905
7 Andy McKee SM2 RX7 44.129
8 Tom Ellam P1 Mazda 44.194
9 Mike DeJesus CP Mustang 44.489
10 Mark Kiesel P1 Ferrari 360 44.501
11 Guy Ankeny CP Camaro 44.51
12 Speedy Knudsen BP Corvette 44.578
13 Teresa Neidel-McKee SM2 RX7 44.65
14 Rick Brown BP Corvette 44.659
15 Vic Sias SM BMW M3 44.669

Boy was I misinformed... I was told it was for old crusty Corvette guys that can only go fast in a strait line. :lol2:

me too .... :)

those damn gold chains must be weighing them down too much :icon_no2:

I kid, I kid .... :lol:

I think I'm going to quit autocross...maybe take up something less frustrating, like golf :lol2:

It's been three events since I made a run without an "oh shxt" type of mistake...I'm on a serious roll, right before Packwood and Topeka:lol2:

Today's course was about as simple as it gets, with only three elements, and I still couldn't get it right.

For those who stuck around for the afternoon, did the course get bad or were they able to control the gravel with the blower?

I did funruns in the Merkur during the 4th group...there was more gravel, but it wasnt as bad as it has been in the past.

I think I'm going to quit autocross...maybe take up something less frustrating, like golf :lol2:

It's been three events since I made a run without an "oh shxt" type of mistake...I'm on a serious roll, right before Packwood and Topeka:lol2:

Today's course was about as simple as it gets, with only three elements, and I still couldn't get it right.

For those who stuck around for the afternoon, did the course get bad or were they able to control the gravel with the blower?

Maybe it is just your car.... Your co-driver just won the Tol Pro in an S2K. You know the 2006 weighs more right? :rollingla

I did funruns in the Merkur during the 4th group...there was more gravel, but it wasnt as bad as it has been in the past.

That's good to hear. I hope we are now starting to get rid of the gravel and that the surface is firming up. It did seem better this morning, for sure.

Nice job in the Francavilla car, Glen. You almost took it today, in a car you've only driven a couple of times...the rest of BS better hope that you don't get serious about running the RX8 in class!

Maybe it is just your car.... Your co-driver just won the Tol Pro in an S2K. You know the 2006 weighs more right? :rollingla

I wonder if he's going to cancel his Packwood reservations, now, and join Team Honda? :lol2:

Nothing wrong with the car, which has proven fast enough on more than one occasion, purely pilot error...I just can't seem to concentrate lately, must be getting old or something...of course, the V710s are now over 70 runs, including a 5 heat cycle, 20 + run day at a club event...:uhh:

you can't get away with sloppy inputs and not being in the right place at the right time on a slippery surface like you can on a high grip surface

you can't get away with sloppy inputs and not being in the right place at the right time on a slippery surface like you can on a high grip surface

Now you tell me!! :banghead: :icon_no2: :banghead:

Oh well, my weekend could have been a lot worse... :(

Now you tell me!! :banghead: :icon_no2: :banghead:

Oh well, my weekend could have been a lot worse... :(

Hey, you were mighty close to a trophy at least :) BTW, what kind of 60 ft times were you getting in that P car ? I think I needed a bigger right foot. My first Pro, awesome fun !

john

Hey, you were mighty close to a trophy at least :) BTW, what kind of 60 ft times were you getting in that P car ? I think I needed a bigger right foot. My first Pro, awesome fun !

john

LOL, Third after the morning, fourth after the afternoon, and seventh after it was all said and done. I drove very poorly on Sunday, my head was not in the game, what else is new :hahano:

We were hovering in the 1.85s range most of the time. The lowest one I remember was a low 1.8 that Clyde turned.

LOL, Third after the morning, fourth after the afternoon, and seventh after it was all said and done. I drove very poorly on Sunday, my head was not in the game, what else is new :hahano:

We were hovering in the 1.85s range most of the time. The lowest one I remember was a low 1.8 that Clyde turned.

Hmmm, I guess I needed a much bigger foot. I was turning times in the 2.1 - 2.2 second range [ s2000 AP1 ]. Still a blast [ well other than wasting a .503 rt by launching with the parking brake on ! Talk about power off oversteer :) ]

take care
john

you can't get away with sloppy inputs and not being in the right place at the right time on a slippery surface like you can on a high grip surface

It's not a matter of the quality of the inputs, it's a matter of the timing of inputs...I just continue to underdrive/overdrive certain elements, without being able to consistently hit the happy medium...


1.80-1.85 in the Boxster is a pretty smokin' 60'. I guess Toledo has good grip?
What were the courses like, that AS was almost able to straight time SS...or was that a byproduct of Matthew being back in his normal form...alien?

That's good to hear. I hope we are now starting to get rid of the gravel and that the surface is firming up. It did seem better this morning, for sure.

Nice job in the Francavilla car, Glen. You almost took it today, in a car you've only driven a couple of times...the rest of BS better hope that you don't get serious about running the RX8 in class!

Thanks Mike. I'm sure that me driving an RX8 everyday helps...the sad thing is I was 1.5 seconds slower in the DSP car than I was in the BS car.

Matthew is an alien for sure. I met a bunch of drivers whose names I had seen / heard before but had never put faces to, and he was one of them. Of course one of his first comments was, "You're the guy talking about how the 285 Hoosiers suck on the RX-8, aren't you?" :lol: It sounded like he was still planning to run the RX-8 at Nats? :dunno:

We're usually in the low 1.9s, being in the low 1.8s was pretty excellent. The Solstice GXPs were in the 1.9s somewhere, and wynveen was complaining about his 2.1-2.2s so you were not in bad company. I would not characterize the Toledo surface to be "grippy." The launch was grippy because it was going against the grain of the brushing on the concrete... but elsewhere I would say it was a low-grip surface. It only got reasonably grippy as the debris / dust got kicked up. But if you were a couple inches off the line, it was skid-city... sound familiar to anyone? We were launching at 6,000 RPM by the end of the event and still not getting a ton of wheelspin.. usually over 4500 RPM is a smoke screen.

I need to figure a lot of things out with this car. I felt as though I was slaloming very well and was executing the turnaround very well, but was having problems keeping the rear end behind me. On my runs where I was very smooth with my inputs (yeah right) it was working well. By Sunday morning I was fried from lack of sleep for three straight nights and was being sloppy and abrupt with my inputs, and it showed in my dog-slow times. :( My performance was embarrassing.

Sorry forgot to describe the courses.

Nice long straight (per usual) leading into a high-speed, 29-pace slalom. The slalom opened to a high-speed chute which led to a turnaround. The turnaround I would characterize as very tight, we were in the 27-30MPH range going around it (wild ass guess, we didn't have the DL1 with us). The turnaround went into a fast chute which had a pinch cone on the exit, then what basically amounted to two offsets (tight-ish) and a fast finish. Not very complicated, but they were technical because of the narrow line. IMO the courses were very strange visually, pointer cones used in strange ways, gates that seemed misplaced, that sort of thing. Given the spacing of the slalom and the two low-speed sections I am not surprised a Z06 won SS. I can, however, see how an AP2 would be a better car on that course than an AP1. IMO, it was a course in which a C4 corvette would have blown us all out of the water.

sorry Woody, sloppy inputs also includes sloppy timing :p:

mid & rear engine cars typically run those 60 ft times

I would keep in mind at a Prosolo unlike the drag strip the 60' mark can be +/- 5' :icon_no2: so times can vary a lot from site to site because of that as well as the surface.

On a similar note, it would be nice if they could be a bit more consistent with where they locate the tree. It was directly in my A-pillar on the right hand course. But at DC it was far enough away that I could see it just fine.

On a similar note, it would be nice if they could be a bit more consistent with where they locate the tree. It was directly in my A-pillar on the right hand course. But at DC it was far enough away that I could see it just fine.

That would be nice. I was launching with my head at a 45 deg angle in El Toro. BTW, nice job being consistent with your signature. :)

BTW, nice job being consistent with your signature. :)

:lol2: . . . :icon_no2:

Forgot to mention that the Toledo Pro was was the first time in over seven years that I spun a car at an autocross.

:lol2: . . . :icon_no2:

Forgot to mention that the Toledo Pro was was the first time in over seven years that I spun a car at an autocross.

I spun the RX8 a couple of weeks ago and spun the Z06 a number of times...probably have spun at least half a dozen times in two and half years of autocrossing! Pretty amazing you've only spun once in over 7 years!

Good news is I still have a co-driver for Packwood and Topeka. Now, we just have to figure out how to get ULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOSE up to Packwood, to run with us. Maybe he can get a co-drive with Joe G.? ;)
:lol2:

Yea! Cmon Jason!
Party in Packwood. The town just got electricity and running water. I figure getting a stoplight is only 10-20 years away.
LOL!
Just joking! Here's the latest party house that was rented. It was nice!
http://www.tmcproperties.com/photos.cfm?id=83
I think that is already rented though.

Lots of good shows going to happen.
SS should be a great show with all the different cars that are going to show up.
Viper/GT3/ZO6/Elise. Nat champ coats a plenty in that class. Probably going to be the most exciting.

R we going to have another CS/BS "straight time" battle now that I don't have to sandbag anymore?:spank:
Course I hear CS pax is going up next year. We better be careful and not show our true hand 2 much! Ahh....F-that..Top pax or bust!

CSP might be a mini pre nats depending who shows up. Kumho NC versus 275 Hooho? Can a 13" rim still get it done?

The new AMOD rocket from BC might be in attendance.

Hmmm....I don't know what else I have heard so far.

FM

PS: Alan is not going to straight time me in his ZOK GXP...NO WAY am I going to let that happen....

We were launching at 6,000 RPM by the end of the event and still not getting a ton of wheelspin.. usually over 4500 RPM is a smoke screen.

Uh...6500ish...I couldn't get it steady where I wanted it by the time the horn blew, so I held it where I could. I was also launching at about 5250 in DC. We must be doing something different with the clutch even though we both describe it the same way since the revs have been a bit different and out 60 foot times are essentially identical save a flier here or there. :dunno:

When John spun, I felt a little bad for him...but at the same time I was kind of proud, too. He was trying to get a little more than might have been there and it was nice to see him really gunning for that last little bit. The other cool thing was what it did to one of the wheels. (pic taken after adjusting pressures for the next run)

http://teamwtf.smugmug.com/photos/178651637-L.jpg

For me...well, I accomplished what I wanted to for the weekend. It's easy when you set the bar really, really low...like "just show up so you will qualify for the Finale." Of course, that almost didn't happen, but what are you gonna do?

Someone whose comments I trust and was working the course near the turnaround gave me some very detailed feedback about my Saturday afternoon runs that might have messed with my head a little bit. On the right side, I thought I had nailed the slalom, was "okay" in the turnaround and all f'd up on the return. The left side return felt the same, but felt like I left a little more in the slalom and was clueless about the turnaround. In the morning, I had looped both left side runs there and made a conscious effort to get on the brakes 15 feet earlier than I wanted to and felt slow all the way through it. The feedback was quite the opposite. He told me that I looked noticeably slower through the slalom on both sides than the fastest guys and my lifts were of longer duration. But he also said that from the turnaround to the finish, I looked as faster or faster than anyone else in AS. I had the same shitty times on Sunday as I had Saturday afternoon, but the slaloms felt like total crap.

I don't know. I think it's easier when you just get in the car and drive without making an effort to outthink yourself. If I've plateaued at hack status, so be it. This sport is more fun when it's fun. I would have been happier had I done a little better, but for the first time in a long time, I made the drive home happy. When it really just becomes fun again, it's so much better.

Any Toledo RX8 attendees out there ? I was wondering what the BS guys were doing relative to 60' times ?

thanks
John

typically 2.05 - 2.30 sec depending on the driver

typically 2.05 - 2.30 sec depending on the driver

Thanks ! The 2.05 range is pretty quick.

John

Any Toledo RX8 attendees out there ? I was wondering what the BS guys were doing relative to 60' times ?

thanks
John


You know I was there and had a BLAST!!!!!!! Now to just get mine set up like the 8's that were there...... God they were fast and looked sweet out there on course =)

See ya on the 12th John!!!!!!!

what wheel is that? how much does it weigh?

You know I was there and had a BLAST!!!!!!! Now to just get mine set up like the 8's that were there...... God they were fast and looked sweet out there on course =)

See ya on the 12th John!!!!!!!

Beth

I was looking for comments from people that didn't have a perfect 0.500 reaction time :)

see you on the 12th !
john

what wheel is that? how much does it weigh?

It's a CCW. Depending on whether that pic is of a front or a rear, it weighs 16lb or 18lb.

they may have looked fast, but they were not only beat by a 350Z, they were beat by F Stock too :uhh: :icon_no2:

they may have looked fast, but they were not only beat by a 350Z, they were beat by F Stock too :uhh: :icon_no2:

In case you haven't noticed, F Stock on the east coast has been consistently fast, this year...

^^sometimes you are soooo dense ... :lol2:

Facts are posted :)

http://sccaforums.com/forums/storage/16/256982/ToledoProRT60.pdf

john

In case you haven't noticed, F Stock on the east coast has been consistently fast, this year...

Maybe FS has been where it should be and BS has been soft over there. :scared:

B Stock doesn't really exist in the east in the same way it does on the west coast. F Stock is extremely popular here this year and it has essentially zero participation on the west coast.

Based on the two times this year the Kozlaks have encountered the Shelby, I would say F Stock has not gotten any faster since 1989 (discounting tire technology changes).

Woody's got a head full of knotted mahogany :cwm27:

Woody's got a head full of knotted mahogany :cwm27:

To illustrate how dense I am, I'm not even sure why I'm being called dense...I guess ignorance is bliss ;)

I've just noticed, with the Shelby's and big name participation, that FS times look much more competitive this year, PAX or no...

I've just noticed, with the Shelby's and big name participation, that FS times look much more competitive this year, PAX or no...

You mean the Shelby that is basically no faster than an '89 IROC-Z? :yelrotflm

To illustrate how dense I am, I'm not even sure why I'm being called dense...I guess ignorance is bliss ;)

I've just noticed, with the Shelby's and big name participation, that FS times look much more competitive this year, PAX or no...


somebody else understood ...

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1996385&postcount=60

You mean the Shelby that is basically no faster than an '89 IROC-Z? :yelrotflm


Let's not play the "one event represents a relevant sampling" game ;)

The new Shelby Mustang will, with equal drivers given multiple courses and conditions, kick any of the "old school" F bodies all over the lot...I guarantee it :lol2:

Mark, I wasn't comparing BS and FS, only...I'm talking about FS relative to SS, AS, BS etc. I don't remember, in my vast, all encompassing two full years of autocross, FS being so quick at any other point:)

Let's not play the "one event represents a relevant sampling" game ;)

Good thing we have two events' worth of data. :spank:

Good thing we have two events' worth of data. :spank:

Yeah, but only one event even comes close to validating your "basically no faster than an '89 IROC Z" comment...:lol2:

Yeah, but only one event even comes close to validating your "basically no faster than an '89 IROC Z" comment...:lol2:

I disagree, I think both events are valid if you look at them pragmatically.

Of course if you weren't at either event I could understand how you might think otherwise. The only thing that matters is who wins the big dance, right? Right.

I disagree, I think both events are valid if you look at them pragmatically.

Of course if you weren't at either event I could understand how you might think otherwise. The only thing that matters is who wins the big dance, right? Right.

True, I wasn't at either events and sometimes there is quite a bit behind the numbers...

But, I also don't think there can possibly be enough information there to validate your comment.

I guess you'll have to wait until nationals because that's the next time you'll see the dinosaur run against the "doesn't slalom as well as a regular Mustang GT" Shelby.

I guess you'll have to wait until nationals because that's the next time you'll see the dinosaur run against the "doesn't slalom as well as a regular Mustang GT" Shelby.

Fair enough :)

I wonder if Sammy was just kind of sandbagging with that slalom comment? Anyhow, we'll find out. Is the Kozlak car a 350/automatic? I wonder if it's on it's original engine or tranny...