Sorry if this has been beaten to death but I'm just about to pull the trigger on another set of track tires and am trying to avoid making a bad choice. My choice of tire has to be a tire than can be driven to a track up to a couple of hundred miles since I don't trailer the car or want to carry the extra set with me.

I've got a spare set of OEM wheels with PS2's on them that have done reasonably well the past 2 seasons of track days but they are getting close to the point of replacement.

These good and bad news on this tire:
Good news
-long wear
-quiet
-great in rain
-good dry traction
-takes the heat well

Bad news
-expensive
-soft sidewalls

I 've almost decided on the Falken 615 as a replacement but am concerned about the traction when they get hot. I don't auto-x much so the issue is how they take a 20-25 minute track session.

Also, I've read on other boards where there is an outfit selling barely used Toyo RA-1's at a heavily discounted price; anyone heard of this?
Thanks
Mike

Are you looking for a street tire or a race tire first of all? If it's for a second set of wheels and for mostly track purposes but still need to be driven to the venue I would reccomend the Toyo RA-1. I have driven my set out to an event 180 miles round trip several times with no issues. If you get them full tread you can even drive them in rain. Another choice in this segment is the V700 Victoracer. A word of warning though, after a track session R comps will be noisy on the drive home.

There are a few race teams that use the RA1 and sell their scrubs for a reasonable price, just look around

If you want a fast street tire go for the Bridgestone RE-01R, Advan Neova or if you're on a budget Falken RT615.

Yes, I 'm mainly looking for a street tire just because I need to drive to the events on these tires.

The PS2's succeed in that but they are an expensive tire--with faults --to go tearing up at a track. I've heard good things about the RA-1; do you have any names of these sites for the used RA-1's?

Again, I like what I've heard about the 615 except they go away when they get hot and they get hot quick.

Just curious - why don't you want to carry an extra set with you? One of the great attributes of the RX-8 is that you can fit an entire set of wheels & tires in the back seat, and still have plenty of room left over for gear. Last season my co-driver and I drove up to Nationals (1000 mile round trip) in his RX-8, with a full set of wheels and tires in the back seat, plus all of our tools, gear, luggage for a week, and a big-ass cooler full of beer.

Personally, I'd rather deal with the minor hassle of putting race tires in the back seat instead of worrying about prematurely heat-cycling out my race tires on the street, trying to drive home in the rain on overly worn race tires, or getting stranded at the track when I cord a tire at an event.

Nothing says suck more than driving 200 miles home in the rain on flat-spotted, zero-tread depth tires. Do it once and you'll never have a desire to do it again.

More importantly, both your street tires and your race tires will last longer if you're not asking either set to pull double duty.

I understand what you are saying. I bought some RT615s specifically to do the same thing. I got about 14 weekends out of them plus the miles of driving to the track (some tracks as much as 5 hours away). The last 2 weekends, I toted them in the back seat since they were pretty treadless and there was a rain threat.
I don't think they overheat easily unless you over drive them (which some people do). If you drive properly instead of plow into a corner carrying too much entry speed, you will feel them start to get greasy. I don't recall having any problems at any of my weekends and I don't pussy foot my car around a track. (Some of my fellow track hos can attest to that). The RT615s didn't chunk even on cheese grater like track surfaces even at full tread. Initial wear was pretty rapid but then slowed down significantly as the tread blocks got shorter. I could have probably gotten in 2 more weekends out of the tires but I went back to R compounds.
Compared to R compounds, I feel like the RT615s understeer on corner entry until they start to grip. Time differences are around 2 seconds slower on a 2 mile track compared to Toyo RA1s.
I would enthusiastically recommend the RT615s as a durable, fun, and easy to drive tire for track use if you are not after the ultimate lap. Being able to put the wheels on the car at home, drive to the track, then go back home and change back if you have the time is very convenient. If you don't get to changing back, you can run them until you do have a chance.

You don't need an everyday street tire for this purpose, Toyo just came out with the new R888 made just for what you want, superior to the RA-1

http://www.toyo.com/docs/tires/tires.asp?lpid=30029&name=Proxes%20R888&category=sport

but if you can get RA-1s in good shape for a good price that would make the most sense

also, I know of several sets of rear Konis that blew out from driving them on the bumpstops from loading the car up with excess weight, you've been warned ...

Just curious - why don't you want to carry an extra set with you? One of the great attributes of the RX-8 is that you can fit an entire set of wheels & tires in the back seat, and still have plenty of room left over for gear. Last season my co-driver and I drove up to Nationals (1000 mile round trip) in his RX-8, with a full set of wheels and tires in the back seat, plus all of our tools, gear, luggage for a week, and a big-ass cooler full of beer.

Personally, I'd rather deal with the minor hassle of putting race tires in the back seat instead of worrying about prematurely heat-cycling out my race tires on the street, trying to drive home in the rain on overly worn race tires, or getting stranded at the track when I cord a tire at an event.

Nothing says suck more than driving 200 miles home in the rain on flat-spotted, zero-tread depth tires. Do it once and you'll never have a desire to do it again.

More importantly, both your street tires and your race tires will last longer if you're not asking either set to pull double duty.

I agree the only reason i drive mine to events is that our surface is very abrasive and more likely to cord tires before they heat cycle out plus i bought them dirty cheap so i dont care.

You should still decide if you want one set of wheels with a good street tire or if you truly want to race on r comps. Also if you decide to bring an extra set with race tires get youself a good low profile aluminum jack and strong drill, it makes life much easier

There are often cheap used 17" ra1s on the evo board

new R888 :o???????

IC ... that is the first time I see American lacks behind. R888 has been here for years.

Good to see you have them. They are the class of road legal R spec tyres you can get. Forget Falken 615 and RA-1. They are nowhere near the R888.

RE55S Bridgestone and A048 Yokohama is in the same category.

yeah, many of these tires are available in Japan long before they come to the US market; Advan Neova, RE-01R, R888, etc.

new R888 :o???????

IC ... that is the first time I see American lacks behind. R888 has been here for years.

Good to see you have them. They are the class of road legal R spec tyres you can get. Forget Falken 615 and RA-1. They are nowhere near the R888.

RE55S Bridgestone and A048 Yokohama is in the same category.

Right.... Do you have the Kumho V710 or Hoosier A6? If not you have no clue as to what a fast DOT R tire is. :rolleyes:

the subject matter does not include V710 or A6 consideration, they are not in the same category both in performance or in streetability

I would say that KDW's are pretty BAD at what I bought them for, which was daily driveable tires that see both track weekends and autocrosses. I've got dime-sized abscesses all over my tires from pebbles hit at speed.

They worked well in the rain on track, surprisingly (that's what the W is for, I suppose), and are even better in the dry. They're much better in every respect but treadwear than my old Kumho Ecsta's.

the subject matter does not include V710 or A6 consideration, they are not in the same category both in performance or in streetability

He said "They are the class of road legal R spec tyres you can get", I do not agree. :rolleyes: I drive on my V710s. :)

+1, drive on V710's...about 400 street miles on this set, plus 50 some odd autocross runs...of course, it never rains in California, as the song says...;)

sorry, I refuse to argue with idiots :p:

sorry, I refuse to argue with idiots :p:

I don't drive on my Victoracers (they're on a set of track wheels, and to preempt, yes they're different than V710s, but they're certainly comparable) in the Porsche because of all the glass, shells, small animals, teeth, and illegals that they would pick up and hold on to if driven around the Houston streets...is that what you're arguing?

You could drive on them, though, and since he didn't say anything about them being daily driven:
My choice of tire has to be a tire than can be driven to a track up to a couple of hundred miles since I don't trailer the car or want to carry the extra set with me.

...even if he means to say that.

Edit:
It really bothers me...quoting a post of someone "refusing to argue with idiots..." Haha.

OK, taking up the discussion on the part of "idiots"...let me qualify my statement. I drive on the V710's just back and forth to local events and, for that use, they cause no issues. I am not suggesting they are realistic true, everyday street tires.

On the other hand, I put many, many miles on Victoracers back when I was running my Mustang in Shelby club track events. I never thought twice about driving up to Thunderhill (about 130 miles or so), running all weekend and then driving home on the Victoracer. Yes, they would kick gravel up, but I never found them vulnerable to puncture and they worked great whenever I got caught in the rain...and, back then, they were about $135 or so a piece (275/40-17). They might not have been that sticky, bu looking back, those tires ROCKED :ylsuper:

But, I agree, if I only had one set of wheels/tires, I'd go with the RA-1 or the R888.:)

V710 and Hoosier is available here but they are not legal in Australia.

I will talk my language. Yokohama A048, Dunlop D02J, and Toyo R888 are S tyres (in Japanese term)

Sorry that I get into your ego....

(......)

you can drive Indycar slicks on the street and say they cause no problems, assuming it never rains, then you're in serious trouble if you have hundreds of miles to go and can't even maintain the minimum interstate speed without hydroplaning off the road

I put 20,000 (easy) street miles on a set of V700 Kumhos and they still had over 50% tread life left, but those or Victoracers can't compare with V710s or A6s which are essentially slicks with two circumferential grooves

and please note the smilie on my idiots comment, it was a joke :p:

Kumho SPT's may be what your looking for.

I've sent an email to an outfit in WI that sells used track tires (in good condition) with regards to the RA-1. I t will probably come down the the Toyo or the 615.

BTW, we've go the SPT's are street tires, which are fine for the street, but I don't think they hold up well on the track. As a comparison, our old MX's chunked like crazy on a hot day at the track; great tire for auto-x but I'm not sure even shaving them would help for a 20 minute track session.

Really, I've never heard of MX's chunking.

These tires have proven to be the best options, as far as I've seen and experienced. I've driven on them both and they're both exceptional.

Inexpensive: Hankook RS-2

More expensive: Bridgestone RE-01R

I DO NOT like Falken RT-615's on the track at all.

Your comment is consistent with a well known racer in Japan. Could you elaborate more please?

you didn't like the 615? Any specifics you can supply would be great.

+1 I would like to know this. I know that Falken 615s are close to the ultimate track tire. However, if you take the context of a tire that you can drive repeatedly on the street and track, I think the 615 is it. My sources say R888 is worth 1.5-2 seconds at streets of willow over the 615. Thats a good amount of time, but right now, I (and many people) don't do enough track days a year to warrant an extra set of wheels/tires.

+1 I would like to know this. I know that Falken 615s are close to the ultimate track tire. However, if you take the context of a tire that you can drive repeatedly on the street and track, I think the 615 is it. My sources say R888 is worth 1.5-2 seconds at streets of willow over the 615. Thats a good amount of time, but right now, I (and many people) don't do enough track days a year to warrant an extra set of wheels/tires.

Ultimate true street tire would be the Neovas or RE-01R. RT615's are a tier below but still pretty good and inexpensive. Depending on car make/model some people prefer the Hankook RS2's over the RT615's. I've tried both and personally thought they were pretty close.

Ultimate true street tire would be the Neovas or RE-01R. RT615's are a tier below but still pretty good and inexpensive. Depending on car make/model some people prefer the Hankook RS2's over the RT615's. I've tried both and personally thought they were pretty close.

Gotcha on that one. I def agree the 615s are the best value. I just picked up 4 in 275/35/18 for $840. Most of the other tires I look at in comparison were in the 950-1100 range for 4 tires in that size. I was close to going with the Nitto N-01s but they were expensive and I would have to park the car if it rained. Haven't tried the Hankook's, but have heard their build quality isn't the greatest.

I know that Falken 615s are close to the ultimate track tire.

No, they're not even close.

No, they're not even close.

meant not close, typo

I had driven an RX-8 with the RT615 on the track. They are pretty good tyre if you are comparing with stock radials. I only have 4 laps in it and found nothing wrong, but the owner said they heat up easily and start to skid quickly in the 6th lap. I will say watch the tyre temperature and pressure closely on those tyres, if you can keep the heat to a reasonable temperature it will be a great tyre for road/track combo.

It worth another set of wheel/S tyre for track if you are going about 2 times a year. The slicks in a cool garage and cover with plastic will last for years. There are methods to keep the rubber not hardening up inside a garage.

I found most radials when they are worn half way, they are not good for track use. So most hard core people after 3 track days will put those for street only.

So my instructor told me to get a cheap wheel with good tyres, so I can have more value for money.

I just went for the Wedsports TC105N and the Yokohama A048 haha.

I was close to going with the Nitto N-01s but they were expensive and I would have to park the car if it rained.

^Gob: "I've made a huge mistake."

\/spin: "There is no way around it - R-Compounds rule on track" :lol2:

See you w/RT-615s at the track one day RPIRX-8 heehee! :) (R-Comps 500 miles from home...how'd he do it?)

Ultimate true street tire would be the Neovas or RE-01R. RT615's are a tier below but still pretty good and inexpensive. Depending on car make/model some people prefer the Hankook RS2's over the RT615's. I've tried both and personally thought they were pretty close.

Been hearing good things about these tires, at least as far as the entry level street/track tires go...when my Kumho MXs go I may go to these...

I've sent an email to an outfit in WI that sells used track tires (in good condition) with regards to the RA-1. I t will probably come down the the Toyo or the 615.

BTW, we've go the SPT's are street tires, which are fine for the street, but I don't think they hold up well on the track. As a comparison, our old MX's chunked like crazy on a hot day at the track; great tire for auto-x but I'm not sure even shaving them would help for a 20 minute track session.

where is this place and what is it called?

Here you go:

John Berget Racing Tires
4985 Highway 50
Delavan, WI 53115

262-740-0180

www.jbracingtires.net

A few guys on the Cayman board vouch for this guy.

also, I know of several sets of rear Konis that blew out from driving them on the bumpstops from loading the car up with excess weight, you've been warned ...

Sorry if I'm being thick...can you please explain what you mean here, Team?

So we know that TRX8 had one set of custom rears that took a dump, who were the others you hint at and did they have a revalved set of Konis like you or were they off the shelf units?

+1 I would like to know this. I know that Falken 615s are close to the ultimate track tire. However, if you take the context of a tire that you can drive repeatedly on the street and track, I think the 615 is it. My sources say R888 is worth 1.5-2 seconds at streets of willow over the 615. Thats a good amount of time, but right now, I (and many people) don't do enough track days a year to warrant an extra set of wheels/tires.

You are joking right? The 615s are crap compare to a lot of the other aggressive tires. I personally don't even think they are all that good of a street tire due to the excessive bumpyness and noise. I have a set on my car now, but I will never use them again. They are better than the stock RE040, but they are not anywhere close to the RA1s, let alone the R888. I average 3 seconds a lap faster on USED ra-1s than the 615s on a 1.5 miles course. I drove them to and from the track too with no problem.

Unless you drive in noreaster everyday, I think the good time to toss tires is when they get to the cords.

Also just to let you know, my nearly bald R compounds work better in the rain (even under slight puddles) than my brand new 615s. The RA1s are just better tires than the 615s, I would pick that over the 615s anyday. I got 5000 street miles, 40 autox runs, 350 track miles on a set of nearly bald tires (about 1/32nd when i got it). It's not bad given the bang for the buck

Sorry if I'm being thick...can you please explain what you mean here, Team?

i think it might be people or fat people in the back seat..

beers :beer:

You are joking right? The 615s are crap compare to a lot of the other aggressive tires. I personally don't even think they are all that good of a street tire due to the excessive bumpyness and noise. I have a set on my car now, but I will never use them again. They are better than the stock RE040, but they are not anywhere close to the RA1s, let alone the R888. I average 3 seconds a lap faster on USED ra-1s than the 615s on a 1.5 miles course. I drove them to and from the track too with no problem.

Unless you drive in noreaster everyday, I think the good time to toss tires is when they get to the cords.

Also just to let you know, my nearly bald R compounds work better in the rain (even under slight puddles) than my brand new 615s. The RA1s are just better tires than the 615s, I would pick that over the 615s anyday. I got 5000 street miles, 40 autox runs, 350 track miles on a set of nearly bald tires (about 1/32nd when i got it). It's not bad given the bang for the buck

No crap, you're comparing a R comp to a street tire. The RT615 is crap compared to 95% of R comps but is top 75% among street tires. Only the top tier RE01R, Neova etc type tires are better and at a higher price. There are tons of other street tires that are truly crap like the ES100's.

I wouldn't say that bald RA1's are better in the rain, you just can't clear standing water with no tread. The grip on the RA1's is obviously up there but you won't get 8000 street miles out of a set like the Falkens and price is obviously an issue.

That being said I run RA1's on my RX-8 on a set of track wheels, RE040's on stock wheels for the street and RT615's on my daily driven/sometimes autocrossed miata and I think they all do well for what they are. You can't expect a street tire to be the best on the track or a track tire to last a long time on the street.

You are joking right? The 615s are crap compare to a lot of the other aggressive tires. ....

..little harsh I'd say.... your crap critizism of the Falkens that is. Sure they're not the be all end all in tires.... but they are not crap either. What they are - is an excellent high performance summer tire for the street and DE track. They perform in line with others of the same type plus or minus and they do work quite well in the rain, I used them wet and have had no problems whatsoever.

They do a very creditable job on a high speed circuit with great stability, known and easily modulated limits, and from my experience.... they do an 'excellent' IMO job in the daily drive, quiet (if you haven't just shreded them on track w/abuse), very comfortable w/the right pressure, esp compared to the RE04s, and are sold at an honest price, not a jacked up sky high price like some brands because they're the 'in tire' or 18s or the wider low aspect sizes. Value and performance is hard to beat. They're a tire where the 'get what you pay for' meter is registering "super value - excellent performance".

My r-comps are far superior on track, but so what? They are r-comps and say right on them "Not recommended for highway use". They also half the tread wear rating, and twice the traction rating. They should be better, a lot better, and they are - for the track. They'd drive me nuts on the street and I can't drive them to the track if it's more than 1/2 hr away very easily.

But that doesn't make the RT-615s crap.

Quiet? Comfortable? Come for a ride in my car, you will get a headache after a trip on the highway. I drive around in my RA1s now because the ride is softer and they are quieter. As far as tire wears, the RA1 wear maybe 25% faster. With the 615s, I have the tendency to spin them. Spinning them is as bad as having a soft compound, I got 10K miles out of the 615s and 7K out of my RA1s.

They are a good performance tire, but prepare to pay the price in ride quality and noise. It's sort of like buying a Toyota Yaris. They are good on gas, but you still get what you paid for. They are almost 1.5 sec faster than the stock RE040, but they are not much faster than the RE050 or the PS2.

I can't? What am i running on then? I made two trips to VA for track events when I purchased the tires in Feb when the car had 32K miles. I now have 40K miles, this is between 6 track events and 60 autox runs. :dunno:

Rain grip works fine for me here. When the tires got really really low, I do have to stay below 60mph. But then even with the Azenis, I can do no better than 70mph at half tread. Also I have a FTD in the rain with the RA1s too. It wasnt a lot of rain, but it was still rain.

I wouldn't say that bald RA1's are better in the rain, you just can't clear standing water with no tread. The grip on the RA1's is obviously up there but you won't get 8000 street miles out of a set like the Falkens and price is obviously an issue.

That being said I run RA1's on my RX-8 on a set of track wheels, RE040's on stock wheels for the street and RT615's on my daily driven/sometimes autocrossed miata and I think they all do well for what they are. You can't expect a street tire to be the best on the track or a track tire to last a long time on the street.