http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/18/1846.asp
sucks for you cali peeps.

California: Stop Sign Cameras Installed on Canyon Roads
A California park agency will ticket motorists with stop sign cameras July 9. Speed cameras to follow.

The Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority (MRCA) has installed the first-ever automated camera in the US designed to ticket drivers who make "boulevard stops" or slow to a crawl at a stop sign without fully ceasing forward motion. The little-known agency will begin issuing $100 fines next Monday, July 9, at Franklin Canyon in the heart of Los Angeles, located off of Mulholland Drive and at the top of Topanga.

The stop sign devices are based on red light camera platforms, but they differ greatly in use. The more familiar stoplight cameras typically photograph a vehicle entering an intersection if a signal light changes to red between 0.1 and 0.3 seconds after the car crosses a stop bar line (view recent report). With the new stop sign cameras, a machine will make calculations to determine whether a vehicle did not stop for a long enough period and deserves a fine.

The cameras are being installed as a prelude to the agency's expected installation of speed cameras on popular canyon roads, as first reported by TheNewspaper in April. Australian camera vendor Redflex will operate every aspect of the program in return for a $20 cut from every ticket the company is able to issue (view contract). California law explicitly prohibits both speed cameras and per-ticket photo enforcement contract provisions, but the MRCA believes the law does not apply to them.

"Our Park Rangers are California peace officers and will always have traffic enforcement as part of their duty," MRCA Director of Public Affairs Dash Stolarz said in a June statement.

In 2000, the California legislature banned photo radar with a statute clarifying that although it authorized the use of photo ticketing at traffic signals, the legislature, "does not authorize the use of photo radar for speed enforcement purposes by any jurisdiction." (CVC 21455.6) Another provision specifies that, "A contract between a governmental agency and a manufacturer or supplier of automated enforcement equipment may not include provision for the payment or compensation to the manufacturer or supplier based on the number of citations generated." (CVC 21455.5)

This is the same thing "king Daley" of Chicago wants to do.

The more familiar stoplight cameras typically photograph a vehicle entering an intersection if a signal light changes to red between 0.1 and 0.3 seconds after the car crosses a stop bar line (view recent report).

I really hope that's a misprint. In my state, if I enter the intersection a billionth of a second BEFORE the light turns red I have the right of way -- nothing illegal. The way the red light cameras here work is that it a sensor behind the line predicts if you're going to run the light based on your speed. If you do, it takes a series of pictures of you BEHIND the line with the light red and then a picture of you ACROSS the line with the light still red to "prove" that you were actually in motion and in fact ran the light. If they don't get those two key pictures (e.g. - it predicted your speed incorrectly) you don't get a ticket.

If California's red light cameras operate on some arbitrary delay as stated in the article that's hilarious. If the laws about entering an intersection are similar to everywhere else I've ever been, I can't imagine anyone ever not being able to get out of one of those tickets.

Don't matter what the law says to be honest with ya. Here in Chitown the ONLY defense against one of those things is to avoid an accident. Even then the pics have to show that's what you were doing.

Here they purposely cut the yellows short from an average of about 3 seconds to about half a second. And if you're in the intersection when the light changes BAM!! $100 bill sent to you with a return address to dept of revenue for the city. Hell one of our alderman wanted to ban the new Cobra "navigation" system that tells you where all the camera lights are. Why? Because "the city needs the revenue generated by the cameras."

Sounds like the program violates at least two laws. Why does anyone tolerate this crap?

thats not gonna fly very well

In many parts of the country, these signs would be full of buck shot.

Sounds like the program violates at least two laws. Why does anyone tolerate this crap?Funny, this coming from a person from Boston. This country has turned it's population from rugged individuals into sheeple.

thats so weak. im a creaper myself haha guilty but i'll never run a stop.

All these photo cameras are crap and an excuse for local government to make extra money. This is often a "legal" scam to abuse drivers.

The speed limits are reduced to frustrate drivers. Light stay red longer or are out of sequence with other lights (like green, red, green, red) to frustrate drivers. Lights stay red at night when they should be blinking yellow. Stop signs are put up where a yield sign could be used.

A lot this crap has nothing to do with making roads safer and everything to do with robbing drivers of cash.

I suggest more people invest in ways to protect their license plates from the cameras by getting anti-photo radar license plates and some other technological innovations like electronic folding/cover license plates, laser jammers, etc...

"...to determine if a vehicle did not stop long enough and deserves a fine."

WTH! Stopped is stopped. Period. If you come to a complete stop, for three seconds or ten minutes, you've stopped. Obeyed the regulatory sign. Running a stop sign means NOT COMING TO A COMPLETE STOP, period. It doesn't mean not stopping long enough for a derelict to smear your windshield with a greasy rag.

Now, not yielding the right-of-way to someone else who rightfully has it, is a separate issue. Not yielding right-of-way is not the same infraction as not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign.

This clearly illustrates incompetence in public office; at least whomever is responsible for defining the parameters of the cameras use.

I really hope that's a misprint. In my state, if I enter the intersection a billionth of a second BEFORE the light turns red I have the right of way -- nothing illegal. The way the red light cameras here work is that it a sensor behind the line predicts if you're going to run the light based on your speed. If you do, it takes a series of pictures of you BEHIND the line with the light red and then a picture of you ACROSS the line with the light still red to "prove" that you were actually in motion and in fact ran the light. If they don't get those two key pictures (e.g. - it predicted your speed incorrectly) you don't get a ticket.

If California's red light cameras operate on some arbitrary delay as stated in the article that's hilarious. If the laws about entering an intersection are similar to everywhere else I've ever been, I can't imagine anyone ever not being able to get out of one of those tickets.


Actually, in California, the car's rear wheels need to be through the intersection before it turns red.

You can get a ticket if the light turns red while you're in the middle of the intersection.

^yup, a fellow member here got a ticket and even asked the officer and the officer showed him that the law states you need to pass the intersection before the light turns red.

just wait until they start putting cameras on the highway that judge your speed and take pictures of you speeding.

just wait until they start putting cameras on the highway that judge your speed and take pictures of you speeding.

http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/news/2006/February/02-22-06.asp

we already have that here in arizona..

limit is 65, if you do 11 over, you get flashed..so now we just have a section of the freeway with everyone going 74 - 75 MPH

thats just retarded

just wait until they start putting cameras on the highway that judge your speed and take pictures of you speeding.

They have speed camera vans in some construction zones here in IL. So now it no longer matters if there are workers or not, if work is being done or not. All that now matters is if they put up construction zone signs, drop in a van and mail out tickets. Granted though half the ones I've been through say photo enforced, but there are no vans and no way a camera could get you. So why even bother with the signs?

Actually, in California, the car's rear wheels need to be through the intersection before it turns red.

You can get a ticket if the light turns red while you're in the middle of the intersection.

Up here in my city the red light cameras work a bit more logically.

You get ticketed by entering the intersection under a red light. You receive 2 pictures, one of you entering the intersection and one of you exiting the intersection, both under a red light.

Chris...

Of course they can't allow camera's to be installed every where, if they had them to monitor speeds, stop signs, red lights, etc etc, 90% of cops would be out of a job!

I'm sure if you are not wearing seatbelt in the photo they'll get you for that too. Or talking on a cell. Or...

http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/news/2006/February/02-22-06.asp

we already have that here in arizona..

limit is 65, if you do 11 over, you get flashed..so now we just have a section of the freeway with everyone going 74 - 75 MPH

Yea, they kicked Matt Leinart's ass with that shit.

Isn't there a special paint you can put on your license plate that will reflect the flash from the camera, so your numbers can't be recorded?

http://www.phantomplate.com/

Isn't there a special paint you can put on your license plate that will reflect the flash from the camera, so your numbers can't be recorded?

http://www.phantomplate.com/

The only time they'd really have to use the flash would be at night, right?

Isn't there a special paint you can put on your license plate that will reflect the flash from the camera, so your numbers can't be recorded?

http://www.phantomplate.com/

Mythbusters tried similar stuff along with a handful of other tricks. ONLY thing that worked was blowing past the cameras at over 170mph

Black tape over the numbers, to change them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lol

Mythbusters tried similar stuff along with a handful of other tricks. ONLY thing that worked was blowing past the cameras at over 170mph

Top Gear tried the same thing. Same results too. 170+ To be able to get by the dreaded Red Light Cam

Soooo you can either just stop like a normal person and start your trips 2-3 minutes earlier than you would to make up for lost time, or invest in a very high end sportscar and be take a pro driving course or something :(

What 4me said is good too. I remember back in the day whenever me and my friends would go out and vandalize stuff we'd take a friends truck and just use Blue electrical tape to turn what Numbers/Letters he had into different ones just incase someone got a look at the plates. Incase you're wondering what shennanigans we would do...If you've ever had a dry ice bomb thrown into your car while your window was down while at a red light, it miiiiiiiight have been us. :sad:

Good thing I grew out of that right? :eyetwitch

Shini.... thats really idiotic ..... and damn man that is really dangerous *blank*ed up stuff. I saw a video recently of one of those blowing up in a kid's hand and it did some serious damage.

and nobody wants too rebel by simply taking down these stupid little camera's? If I got a ticket because of one of those camera's I'd probably gather up enough strength too climb up one of those poles and just beat it down with a bat...

Or else it's as easy as a paint ball gun...

^yup, a fellow member here got a ticket and even asked the officer and the officer showed him that the law states you need to pass the intersection before the light turns red.

That guy needs to get his money back...


Circular Red or Red Arrow
21453. (a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection

Note that it says NOTHING about clearing the entire intersection... I'll keep going for all you California peeps:

Section 21455.5 (which deals with electronic enforcement)

21455.5. (a) The limit line, the intersection, or a place designated in Section 21455, where a driver is required to stop, may be equipped with an automated enforcement system

Section 21455 (which defines WHERE you need to stop)
Any stop required shall be made at a sign or crosswalk or limit line indicating where the stop shall be made