Hey guys, how many of you would be interested in getting a reflashed ECU? Considering from all the threads i've read about how wacky the stock one is it wouldnt be a problem to flash the existing ECU.

You talk mighty big, stranger........

Yes, I am sure many people are interested, what do you know?
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doc

We do alot of work with a local company called TechnosquareInc. "Techtom" "SARD" tons of japanese electronics. They are willing to re-flash any car and the turn around time is very quick. If I'm not mistaken the first ones free, if you take your car down to San Diego :cool:

wtf does re-flashing do?

Originally posted by m0j0
wtf does re-flashing do?

It 'flashes' the EPROM (right?) chip in the engine management system with new software. This then controls the engine in a different way and theoretically could liberate some available power. Of course a bad program could screw the whole system. You pays your money and...

how long would u expect this to take? cause i wouldnt mind giving up my car :P

What about us over here on the east coast?:confused:

If everything works out right, I will be interested.:)

SSR Engineering,

Do you have access to the Japanese files then? I for one would be interested in the file for the 210ps 5speed. If you could email me the file, i would pay for it. I can re-flash my own car as long as the 8 has OBD II (does it?).

Originally posted by SSR Engineering
We do alot of work with a local company called TechnosquareInc. "Techtom" "SARD" tons of japanese electronics. They are willing to re-flash any car and the turn around time is very quick. If I'm not mistaken the first ones free, if you take your car down to San Diego :cool:

Hrm... Im in SD and have talked to your people here briefly before...

-Chris

I'm interested with going the first product that shows substanial documented gains. You guys need to start working on this pretty soon because Canzoomer and APEXI already have a nice head start. ;)

Originally posted by Lensman


It 'flashes' the EPROM (right?) chip in the engine management system with new software. This then controls the engine in a different way and theoretically could liberate some available power.

Can you do one that gives me my gas mileage back? Now that I might be interested in. What guarantees you won't hose up the car?

Originally posted by 8_wannabe


Can you do one that gives me my gas mileage back?
Maybe, but probably at the expense of performance

Originally posted by 8_wannabe

What guarantees you won't hose up the car?
Generally none, and unless I'm mistaken, flashing the ECU will generally void the mfg's warranty of just about everything under the hood. Can anybody confirm?

no thank you

Originally posted by RotorMotor

Maybe, but probably at the expense of performance


Generally none, and unless I'm mistaken, flashing the ECU will generally void the mfg's warranty of just about everything under the hood. Can anybody confirm?

well the thing about flashing the ECU is that since it's still the stock ECU, it's really hard to tell without doing a few tests, so most dealerships will never notice

i'd definitely be interested, but i want to see some results first and i'm in the midwest

I would think that a basic test of the engine would reveal that it's normal operating perameters had been changed, no? I mean, anything that's changed for performance reasons is going to be downright obvious (A/F ratios, timing, etc). I would even wager that a decent tech would be able to tell that something was amiss just by running a standard diagnostic on the car.

Originally posted by RotorMotor
I would even wager that a decent tech would be able to tell that something was amiss just by running a standard diagnostic on the car. I suspect even a lame tech would pick the difference, since I strongly suspect that Mazda's diagnostic unit performs some basic handshaking with the ECU when it's first connected. This would doubtless include a flash ID and checksum, and a mismatch should raise a flag to the tech.

At least, that's the way I'd make it work if I was designing the system.

strangely enough, I've read a LOT of posts on a WRX forum about people reflashing their ecus without ever having problems with warranty

One word PROOF!! I bought it this way and show me i didnt please.I dont think mazda has spies out yet do they?

I would think that pretty valid proof would be "Every other RX-8 in the US is configured this way except yours." If there's a checksum change like eccles mentioned or even if the only values changed are those that would enhance performance you will get trounced in court. Period. Besides, you'd have to be the one taking them to court because they denied your warranty claim. Are you going to put out the money it would take for a court fight on the chance that you could convince a judge that the factory only made these changes to your car's ECU and not everybody else's?

SSR,

I'm in San Diego and willing to give you a shot with some discussion first. Let me know how to get in touch.

John

Originally posted by SSR Engineering
Hey guys, how many of you would be interested in getting a reflashed ECU? Considering from all the threads i've read about how wacky the stock one is it wouldnt be a problem to flash the existing ECU.


Does this mean you upload a new/ improved software or maybe just relevant data?

Please educate me.. where does this improved software / data come from?

And if it is better, why didn't Mazda come up with it already? They had enough time...

Or does it have to do with the US standards for clean air and gas consumption versus Japanese standards???


Like other posters I would expect that the Mazda dealership can identify the modified EPROM's content.

-Peter
(software engineer at day time)

Checksums.

that is the #1 issue with chip tuners in the world today.

If you re-map an ecu, and the checksum doesn't match.... the car won't run. period!

Ask any tuner that modifies the stock maps on a stock ecu. This is common place with any newer ecu and chip tuners. So not only does the tuner have to remap, they must generate the proper checksums.

Piggyback ecu's are different, they don't modify the original ecu, so no checksums.

The only thing that you guys should think about is that if you ever get a CEL, FOR THE ENGINE, BRAKES,TEMP OR ANYTHING LIKE that they will hook up ther diagnostic machine to find out. then they will also know that yor ECM was alterd. i believe you guys have adaptive ecu don't you? the harder you drive your car in time it will perform better." this is a minor effect though" if you ever put an exhaust or a CAI or other modification on your vehicle you should reset your ECM so it will learn quicker. just disconnect the battery and tap the brakes a couple of times to get any residual power out of the vehicle. some of you guyz might know this already but just trying to help. this applies to most engines out there, but i am still trying to learn your particular set up.:D

Even if a dealership can detect a reflash, all you have to do is get your ecu reflashed back to stock maps when you need to bring it to the dealer. The procedure is simple enough and it should not be a costly procedure

the harder you drive your car in time it will perform better." this is a minor effect though" if you ever put an exhaust or a CAI or other modification on your vehicle you should reset your ECM so it will learn quicker. just disconnect the battery and tap the brakes a couple of times to get any residual power out of the vehicle. This whole ecu is more and more fascinating to a novice like me. Are you saying that if I don't drive my car harder it won't perform better? Does the ecu somehow get used to my style of driving?

Also how does this brake tapping get any residual power out of the vehicle?

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by ggreen29
This whole ecu is more and more fascinating to a novice like me. Are you saying that if I don't drive my car harder it won't perform better? Does the ecu somehow get used to my style of driving?

Also how does this brake tapping get any residual power out of the vehicle?

Thanks in advance.

or turn the lights on...

it would be a nice thing if it was like the Audi chips - press a certain sequence in the cruise control buttons to activate the better map, press another sequence to bring back the OEM mapping when taking it for service :p

Originally posted by ggreen29
Does the ecu somehow get used to my style of driving?



Thanks in advance. yes;)

my hondata ecu for my rsx brought my high 14s rsx to a low 14s.. with intake and exhaust and header :)

Originally posted by pr0ber
it would be a nice thing if it was like the Audi chips - press a certain sequence in the cruise control buttons to activate the better map, press another sequence to bring back the OEM mapping when taking it for service :p

This sounds interesting. I've not heard of it before, but what's to say there is something like that which can be done on the 8?
The only thing about re-flashes that concerns me is that Mazda tells us that this is a 32 bit processor and is rather sophisticated, not commonly in use yet (could be bs?). If that is the case, I'd be hesitant to re-flash and have to get it towed from the tuner to the dealer!!

Originally posted by SuperRex
Even if a dealership can detect a reflash, all you have to do is get your ecu reflashed back to stock maps when you need to bring it to the dealer. The procedure is simple enough and it should not be a costly procedure

eeeeeeexcept, the Mazda ECU is only good for 100 re-flashes. As opposed to most flash CPU's that are good for 10,000 to 1 million.

-pete

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ggreen29
[B] This whole ecu is more and more fascinating to a novice like me. Are you saying that if I don't drive my car harder it won't perform better? Does the ecu somehow get used to my style of driving?

I can understand a few possibilities, for example letting the automatic rev higher for someone with a heavy foot, and kickdown more easily. But what improvement would it make for me? I drive with a light foot and low revs most of the time, because it's just errands with lots of traffic. Occasonally, I let it rip for fun. I want optimal economy in (1), optimal performance in (2). Can the ECU learn to do that? Back to my interest in specifics, how?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ggreen29
[B] This whole ecu is more and more fascinating to a novice like me. Are you saying that if I don't drive my car harder it won't perform better? Does the ecu somehow get used to my style of driving?[B][QUOTE]


Don't know about Mazda, but Benz ECU do read the way you drive and adapt to that style, i.e., adaptive tuning. Would be nice if my 8 "learned" that I like to go fasssst. But then again, it's pretty fast the way it is...for me.

Originally posted by TybeeRX-8

This sounds interesting. I've not heard of it before, but what's to say there is something like that which can be done on the 8?


It isn't a totally new idea, though fairly new in production form. There have been a couple different aftermarket ECU upgrades on the market for many different cars that have allowed map switching. My mother-in-law's mid eighties Camry even had a button on it to change the tranny's shift points for more powerful driving, or more economy.

Originally posted by CraziFuzzy


It isn't a totally new idea, though fairly new in production form. There have been a couple different aftermarket ECU upgrades on the market for many different cars that have allowed map switching. My mother-in-law's mid eighties Camry even had a button on it to change the tranny's shift points for more powerful driving, or more economy.

Changing shift points (sport, normal) is nothing new as you point out, but that is relatively easy and isn't like the Audi process described earlier. That's what I was referring to. I've had a number of cars that were switchable re shift points. Crap, even things like Mini vans let you lock out the OD. But adaptive learning or secret code resets are something else.

http://www.rmagic.net/index2.html

ther gos an ecu of r magic

photo

otra photo

I chipped my VW Passat which upped my hp from 150 to 190. What they did in order to prevent the dealer from finding out was soldering on a socket to the ECU and returning the stock chip with stock programming on it to you along with the modified chip. When you bring it in for service just plop the stock chip back on the socket. The only way they could find out is if they actually opened up the ECU box.

Originally posted by ZoominRex
I chipped my VW Passat which upped my hp from 150 to 190. What they did in order to prevent the dealer from finding out was soldering on a socket to the ECU and returning the stock chip with stock programming on it to you along with the modified chip. When you bring it in for service just plop the stock chip back on the socket. The only way they could find out is if they actually opened up the ECU box.

...which only bosch was allowed to open the ecu, but the dealer could look for tampering of the seal and void and/or refuse to work on your car.

Keep that in mind.

Ask me how I know.

http://gti.swankmonkey.com/images/giacs.gif


Great pics above ;)

Seems like all it does currently is eliminate the revlimiter

Links to rough translation of RMagic page:


RX-8 Page (http://www.worldlingo.com/wl/translate?wl_lp=JA-en&wl_glossary=gl2&wl_fl=0&wl_rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rmagic.net%2Frmrx8%2Frmrx 8power.htm&wl_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rmagic.net%2Frmrx8%2Frmrx8 power.htm&wl_g_table=-3)


Information (http://www.worldlingo.com/wl/translate?wl_lp=JA-en&wl_glossary=gl1&wl_fl=0&wl_rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rmagic.net%2Frmrx8%2Frmrx 8dr.htm&wl_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rmagic.net%2Frmrx8%2Frmrx8 dr.htm&wl_g_table=-3)

ECU Identification (http://www.worldlingo.com/wl/translate?wl_lp=JA-en&wl_glossary=gl1&wl_fl=0&wl_rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rmagic.net%2Frmrx8%2Frmrx 8dr.htm&wl_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rmagic.net%2Frmrx8%2Frmrx8 cpulist.htm)

Flash the existing ECU? bleh... no... but do what I do with my Audi, which is buy spare ECU, and flash that.

For the S4, I just have a spare ECU that I had chipped, and the original stock one I carry in the trunk (I can do the swap back in 5 mins)

Coupled with VAG-COM diagnostic software, it's the way to go for an Audi... i'd like this kinda stuff for the 8.

The dealer can easily tell if it's a modified ECU, or reflashed ECU. Even the APR stuff for Audi that lets you switch programs via the cruise control is pretty easy for a dealer to find out.

So, anyone know what an RX-8 ECU costs? Can't be much more than $500-$600....

Originally posted by Miwa

So, anyone know what an RX-8 ECU costs? Can't be much more than $500-$600....

I believe that the ECU cost about $1,100.00 but unfortunately I cannot remember if that was USD or Canadian.

I'm not sure that the gains would be significant enough to risk flashing the stock ECU. For the forced induction engines, gains were pretty substantial just by telling the computer to raise the boost pressure. There were a lot of big name manufacturers creating chips for the VW/Audi crowd as well so quality was definitely up there as opposed to one small company fiddling with it in their garage. (not to say your guys' product would be inferior b/c I haven't seen or heard your specific plans for it)

Originally posted by ZoominRex
I'm not sure that the gains would be significant enough to risk flashing the stock ECU. For the forced induction engines, gains were pretty substantial just by telling the computer to raise the boost pressure. There were a lot of big name manufacturers creating chips for the VW/Audi crowd as well so quality was definitely up there as opposed to one small company fiddling with it in their garage. (not to say your guys' product would be inferior b/c I haven't seen or heard your specific plans for it)

No, most chips do not just raise boost pressure. There are other factors, such as timing, load, fuel, airflow, etc.

Especially quoting the vw/audi world, you should know that!

Also those same tuners must not only make changes, but the checksum of the file must match the original.

That's just a bit more than only "raising boost".

By saying "just" I didn't mean to imply that that is the only thing the chips do. Obviously there is much more to it but increasing the boost pressure is the MAIN way they achieve those high hp gains which would not be available to us NA rotary heads.

OK, some facts, some speculation:

1) You can get a new JSPec programmed ECU for around $900 (Canadian)

2) It is not an easy beast to "reflash". There are no socketed PROMs, they are all surface mount, and at least 3 of the chips on the board hold ROM images, not just 1.

3) Once you redo it you have to get a dealer to program the unit for your immobilizer key.

4) You will need to keep your old ECU and put it in for service at the dealer. The moment they throw your car on the diagnostics it will show if not original. While it is not mechanically hard to change the ECU ( a 5 minite job, actually) you will need to invest in a spare set of keys, and have the new ECU programmed for those.

Anyway, to make a long story as short as possible I have 2 of the JSpec ECUs coming sometime in the next 10 days, and will be playing with this a bit.
I will post my experiences with it at that time.

wow
thats great news

well the thing about flashing the ECU is that since it's still the stock ECU, it's really hard to tell without doing a few tests, so most dealerships will never notice

I took my car for an oil change and they knew right away that I had disabled the TCS for a dyno pull. It also knows the flash date and a build code. The dealer will know. It takes zero effort and zero brain power for the diagnostic computer to spill the beans.

The ECU is VERY complicated in this car. For every opportunity to increase power, there are 50 opportunities to F*&$ it up. And your dealer will laugh at you when you bring it in on a flatbed truck.

Originally posted by 1stRX8
I took my car for an oil change and they knew right away that I had disabled the TCS for a dyno pull. It also knows the flash date and a build code. The dealer will know. It takes zero effort and zero brain power for the diagnostic computer to spill the beans.

The ECU is VERY complicated in this car. For every opportunity to increase power, there are 50 opportunities to F*&$ it up. And your dealer will laugh at you when you bring it in on a flatbed truck.

They might know if you disabled the TCS when running, sure it could store a code.

But how did they know it was for a dyno pull? That's what I'm questioning.

Maybe there's a code for TCS for the front wheels not spinning. Maybe they pulled that code and ASSUMED that you did a dyno pull! How would it be different in a burnout with the rears on ice or water?

Or maybe the are watching your every move
:D

Maybe there's a code for TCS for the front wheels not spinning. Maybe they pulled that code and ASSUMED that you did a dyno pull! How would it be different in a burnout with the rears on ice or water?

They didn't know about the dyno until I told them. It was a poorly structured sentence.

They did, however, assume it was for a dyno pull because I was complaining about the HP being down. This was late July, so the HP saga had just begun and they wanted to know why I thought the power was down.

.....and Mazda put multiple cameras in the earlier cars with a satillite uplink to keep track of QC from Japan. Sneaky engineers.

Originally posted by canzoomer
OK, some facts, some speculation:

1) You can get a new JSPec programmed ECU for around $900 (Canadian)

2) It is not an easy beast to "reflash". There are no socketed PROMs, they are all surface mount, and at least 3 of the chips on the board hold ROM images, not just 1.

3) Once you redo it you have to get a dealer to program the unit for your immobilizer key.

4) You will need to keep your old ECU and put it in for service at the dealer. The moment they throw your car on the diagnostics it will show if not original. While it is not mechanically hard to change the ECU ( a 5 minite job, actually) you will need to invest in a spare set of keys, and have the new ECU programmed for those.

Anyway, to make a long story as short as possible I have 2 of the JSpec ECUs coming sometime in the next 10 days, and will be playing with this a bit.
I will post my experiences with it at that time.

please let us know of your findings

Originally posted by 1stRX8
and Mazda put multiple cameras in the earlier cars with a satillite uplink to keep track of QC from Japan. Sneaky engineers.

are you serious??

.....and Mazda put multiple cameras in the earlier cars with a satillite uplink to keep track of QC from Japan. Sneaky engineers.

I've only been able to find one camera imbedded in the Driver's side mirror. Where are the others?

Originally posted by 1stRX8


.....and Mazda put multiple cameras in the earlier cars with a satillite uplink to keep track of QC from Japan. Sneaky engineers.

I took out the camera and mounted it under the lid of my toilet.

I can't believe I just typed that ;)


I **think** the new RX8's are coming with two cameras with audio capabilities. With the satellite uplink, the engineers will be able to put you in limp mode, or give you the true 247 at the touch of a really big shiny red button.

mine dont work

is that under warranty

What's the 8's ECU based on? Is it a Bosch J-Tronic? Just wait for the Apexi PFC to come out for the 8 and call it a day.