RX8 VS Mazdaspeed 3 [Archive]

Flynbri

05-17-2007, 12:07 PM

Buy your friends some driving lessons for his birthday next year. MS3 runs low 14's and traps at least 5 mph higher than the RX-8. With a few boltons on the MS3 it's not even worth mentioning the RX-8.

Unless you want to turn. If you've actually driven both of these cars at the track, perhaps you're the one that needs driving lessons. Please don't quote me C&D or R&T numbers as a response to this. We've swapped and he can beat me when he's in the 8 and I'm driving his 3. Some of us live in the real world not on a magazine page. I made a point of saying that I wasn't quite stock anymore, but even without spray, if you eliminate wheel spin using a few simple cheap suspension mods and do the few power train mods that improve NA performance you'll hit low 14's no problem. Using spray it's not even a race any longer and god help him if he needs to brake or turn at speed. That's actually the biggest problem with adding those bolt ons to the Speed3. It doesn't handle all that great with the power it has. You're thinking is correct when you say that he can get a decent amount of power out of his bolt ons, but he'd better mod the suspension heavily in order to control it.

Cooper47

05-17-2007, 12:32 PM

I almost bought a MS3 before I found my 2005 RX8......It's alot faster then the RX8 just cruising around town and in a straight line. Once things get serious it's easy to overwhelm the MS3. As far as I'm concerned they're not in the same league......Think about what you really want and then make your decision.

Cito

05-17-2007, 12:35 PM

Definitely apples and oranges. Both are great cars but have basic differences in design. Drive them both and buy the one you want.

PedalFaster

05-17-2007, 12:41 PM

why is this in competition forum again?Seriously. Mods, why don't you move these threads to RX-8 Discussion or General Automotive?

kenny_1205

05-17-2007, 01:39 PM

thx for all answers.....~~~~@@

rx8pilot

05-17-2007, 04:19 PM

crimson-rain

05-17-2007, 05:53 PM

I've had an MS3 try to race (or he thought I was racing him, I was in 6th cruising and never floored it or shifted cause the girlfriend was with me sleep and sick) and he pulled off pretty strong (little punk even flashed his lights). But no where as strong as say 350Z or EVO would have. I think what people are feeling when they get into the MS3 is the torque. The MS3 pulls hard until 6K rpms then you may as well shift, as reported in many reviews of it (I'll test drive one soon enough). It also weighs quite a bit too. Don't get me wrong, it's fast, but not THAT fast. I agree with Flynbri. It's probably overrated.

But I will test drive it soon to seen what all the fuss is about for myself. I'm pretty picky about drivers feel in a car. I test drove the EVO and the 8 back to back and still chose the 8.

CarAndDriver

05-17-2007, 10:21 PM

Again?

More_Revs

05-17-2007, 11:59 PM

I don't think there's much question that the 8 is faster once the road start to curve, it's the power that gets everybody talking.

How about this: if you want hot single lady, the 8 will get you there faster; if you want hot single mom, get the 3. :D:

sosonic

05-18-2007, 12:26 AM

alright..i've owned both.. so i'll chime in

the rx-8 will beat the 3 in only 2 catagories.. in extreme twisties and in looks.. other than that..it's the 3. and that's stock.. add mods...and there's no comparison. it'd be nice if the 8 would take to mods like the 3 does/will but it doesn't.

have faith though..i hear the new rx-7 is supposed to come out in like 2010 or something.. if that doesn't beat the 3..then i don't know what mazda is doin anymore.

I don't know what people think they are talking about.

There are only 2 categories that the MS3 will out do an RX-8. 0-60 and gas mileage. Even in the 0-60, it's really close and would depend on the driver. Depending on the driver and the RPM he is launching at, the 0-60 can go to the RX-8.

Brakes, turns, handling, etc... go to the RX-8.

Also, there are mods for the RX-8. Has nobody paid attention to the Pettit SC, Greddy Turbo, Mazsport Turbo (versions of the kit can put down 400 HP), etc...??? There are NA mods for the RX-8 like AP pulley, flywheel, exhaust, ram air duct, etc... Now you may question what the gains are for the mods on each car, but don't think the RX-8 can't get improvement from its mods.

Furthermore, the RX-8 can handle the mods in terms of handling of the car. The MS3 is still a box, that with too much power you may "lose control" in the wrong situation.

Lastly, when it comes to looks of the car, there is no comparison. The RX-8 wins hands down.

SmokeyTheBalrog

05-18-2007, 12:35 AM

Finally, I've been waiting for this one to show up... LOL And why is this in competition forum again?

Neither of them drive themselves, so the one with faster driver is faster.

finally? You haven't been here very long have you. XD

Toast.

RPIRX-8

05-18-2007, 12:40 AM

I wouldn't be so quick to say the Speed3 is faster even in a straight line. I have a buddy with the Speed3 and we've run several times. I don't have any problem pulling him. Of course, I don't mind dumping the clutch at around 6k and I'm not quite stock anymore either (although I am still NA).

Ok, let me get this out of the way first :bsmeter:

I currently own both cars so I may be the best qualified to answer this. There is no way in hell a stock RX-8 will walk a stock MS3, if you think so, you are drunk. In fact, I don't think there is anyway any NA RX-8 will walk a Speed3. An RX-8 with a turbo kit running 10+ psi might have a chance. There is a guy on another forum who is running over 300 fwhp and well over 300 fw torque with about $2000 in mods ( Protege Garage TMIC, MS CAI, XEDE, and CP-E exhaust). I don't car how you spend $2000 on an RX-8, you won't get there. The Speed3 is also no slouch in handling either, but won't touch the RX-8 in this category. Stock vs. Stock I think the Speed3 will run away on the track. Now an RX-8 with a turbo kit vs. stock MS3, if the track doesn't have long straights, I take the RX-8. IMHO, the only way an RX-8 will walk a Speed3 (in a straight line) is with a Mazsport Turbo Kit. A properly tuned GReddy kit will take a Speed3 on a twisty track (NHIS, Pacific Raceways).

Now all that being said, which is more fun to drive? Hands down the RX-8. The Speed3 is FWD, and we all know the limitations there. At the track, the Speed3 would just be drag racing between corners, and thats not much fun (if you want to do that, go get a Mustang GT). The RX-8's gearbox is better, handling is better, more sexy, etc etc. I will not be tracking my Speed3 because the 8 is too much fun.

Rosko350z

05-18-2007, 12:45 AM

From a different thread ...

Rankings (and biggest putdowns);

10. Civic Si (too soft)
9. Z06 (very nervous feeling)
8. MS3 (lotsa torque steer, but faster lap than S2000!)
7. S2000 (lack of chassis rigidity)
6. 335i (heavy and lazy, but best real world compromise)
5. Mini Cooper S JCW GP (exaggerated traits)
4. Evo (drifts and wears tires, but "idiot proof")
3. Exige S (rough ride, a bit twitchy)
2. Cayman S (less rigid than the 911)
1. 911 GT3..."perfect"

I know. It's just a magazine comparison, but if it's faster round this track than a S2000, it's probably faster round this track than a RX8. If not faster, then at least comparable.

I can tell you the 8 would smoke it in autocross.

More_Revs

05-18-2007, 12:46 AM

finally? You haven't been here very long have you. XD

Toast.

haha, guess I burn myself...

capncrunch

05-18-2007, 12:51 AM

^ Well I think that about settles it.

I test drove a MS3 and liked it but I really hate FWD understeer. If the car was RWD or AWD it'd be a great little car.

takahashi

05-18-2007, 02:08 AM

I love RX-8 VS MPS3 threads haha

http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/results.cgi?16/04/2007.WIN.P1

cough cough

CarAndDriver

05-18-2007, 02:48 AM

I love the RX-8 v Civic Si threads even better.

sosonic

05-18-2007, 04:10 AM

Ok, let me get this out of the way first :bsmeter:

I currently own both cars so I may be the best qualified to answer this. There is no way in hell a stock RX-8 will walk a stock MS3, if you think so, you are drunk. In fact, I don't think there is anyway any NA RX-8 will walk a Speed3. An RX-8 with a turbo kit running 10+ psi might have a chance. There is a guy on another forum who is running over 300 fwhp and well over 300 fw torque with about $2000 in mods ( Protege Garage TMIC, MS CAI, XEDE, and CP-E exhaust). I don't car how you spend $2000 on an RX-8, you won't get there. The Speed3 is also no slouch in handling either, but won't touch the RX-8 in this category. Stock vs. Stock I think the Speed3 will run away on the track. Now an RX-8 with a turbo kit vs. stock MS3, if the track doesn't have long straights, I take the RX-8. IMHO, the only way an RX-8 will walk a Speed3 (in a straight line) is with a Mazsport Turbo Kit. A properly tuned GReddy kit will take a Speed3 on a twisty track (NHIS, Pacific Raceways).

Now all that being said, which is more fun to drive? Hands down the RX-8. The Speed3 is FWD, and we all know the limitations there. At the track, the Speed3 would just be drag racing between corners, and thats not much fun (if you want to do that, go get a Mustang GT). The RX-8's gearbox is better, handling is better, more sexy, etc etc. I will not be tracking my Speed3 because the 8 is too much fun.

Hmmm...

The RX-8 can beat MS3s on the track. When the turns come, don't expect the MS3 to hang around unless you've done some serious suspension mods.... The MS3 is still a box when its all said and done.

The MS3 does well in 0-60. But, what a pro driver of a magazine can do and what a guy on the street can do are 2 different things.

I do like that more people realize that the RX-8 has some FI options and more are on the way. If Mazda had a clue, they would pick the Pettit or AFSC supercharger for their Mazdaspeed RX-8. Be that as it may.... People can go FI on their RX-8 and nobody should really have anything bad to say about an FI RX-8.

5.8-6.0 0-60 is nothing to sneeze at. It just that car makers have been focusing on this area while the RX-8 has stayed the same for the last 4 years. Maybe a little too much as 0-60 numbers may be coming at the price of overall performance and quality. Which is still why the RX-8 is rated so highly. Also, I'm sure Mazda will keep those 0-60 numbers in mind for a new 2009-10 RX.

The turbo MS3 is rated in the same 5.8-6.0 0-60 range.

So, I'm confused about how people feel the MS3 is going to "dance all over" the RX-8, when mags are recording close to the same times.

When it comes to mods, lets not forget that RX-8s can go that route too. I would rather be in a 300HP RX-8 than a 300HP MS3 any day.

Ike

05-18-2007, 06:18 AM

The most recent test of the MS3 had it running 14 flat with a trap speed of 101 mph, 0-130 was 29 seconds. An RX-8 usually runs in the 35 second range 0-130. Now picture this, a car goes by you at 130 mph, count to 6 and see how far it is away from you, we're talking several buslengths. It isn't even close... Yes, the RX-8 handles better, but not so much better that the MS3 can't make up the difference in laptimes with the extra power. That said, laptimes don't make a car any more or les fun to drive.

Lastly, it just cracks me up how so many people here act like slapping a turbo or supercharger on an N/A engine, one that is sensitive to detonation and heat at that, is such a simple solution to getting more power from the RX-8. The other funny one is how many people talk about the handling capabilities of the RX-8 yet they'll never take it to the track and never test its limits on the streets.

They're both fun cars, that go about their fun in very different ways. These MS3 vs. RX-8 threads are just like the old SRT-4 threads, the MS3 is just a little slower and has a prettier interior.

takahashi

05-18-2007, 07:21 AM

9291150

05-18-2007, 11:03 AM

http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/results.cgi?16/04/2007.WIN.P1

No one really see my lap times!

I have driven both cars on the track, in the wet! I can tell you RX-8 is much faster on the track.

Power is not everything. I drove a turbo RX-8 recently with 200kW atw and I cannot beat my own times set by my car. And my car's engine is basically stock.

No surprise Taka, good stuff.

I still find it amusing that the vs. threads always has some schmoe needing to know that car A is faster than car B. And fortunately for them, there always no shortage of schmoe's using stats like 0 to 130 to conclude "it wouldn't even be close" - as if we all go WOT for 40 seconds on our daily commutes!!

How about some logic... assuming equal drivers who nail the throttle at the exact same time on a long enough stretch of road, which is always a large assumption ignored here, the MS should be quicker on a straight line, especially after 80/90 mph. On a track, I'd say it would depend on the track, a tighter one would favor the RX8, a higher speed one would favor the 3.

I've never seen them compared because they ARE apples to oranges. But the trap times from this one test supports what I'd expect both to do on a track...

http://www.wheels.ca/article/26915

MazdaMonkey

05-18-2007, 01:45 PM

I wouldn't be so quick to say the Speed3 is faster even in a straight line.

Not a chance, especially if you did a run from 70mph+ the Speed3 would eat an RX-8 alive. Handling all the wheel spin from even a regular launch in the Speed3 is a handful though. Ask Brillo, he was witnessed it first hand... :smoker:

takahashi

05-18-2007, 07:33 PM

How about some logic... assuming equal drivers who nail the throttle at the exact same time on a long enough stretch of road, which is always a large assumption ignored here, the MS should be quicker on a straight line, especially after 80/90 mph. On a track, I'd say it would depend on the track, a tighter one would favor the RX8, a higher speed one would favor the 3.

The 3 is good if you can put the power down and I am sure when the suspension of the 3 being sorted it will be great.

I can tell you autoX will be a killer for a FWD car with that much torque. You can make lots of mistake putting the foot wrong and spin the wheel.

It is much easier to get consistent lap times in the RX-8. A sorted out RX-8 is very hard to beat.

BTW I have not done any form of track driving before the RX-8. RX-8 making the driver that I am now.

sosonic

05-18-2007, 08:16 PM

Mikeluvs8

05-18-2007, 11:43 PM

heres a clip of my rx8 W/cai vs stock ms3. it was pretty damn close!!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8SCIG_iBqeM

VikingDJ

05-19-2007, 05:22 AM

I wouldn't be so quick to say the Speed3 is faster even in a straight line. I have a buddy with the Speed3 and we've run several times. I don't have any problem pulling him. Of course, I don't mind dumping the clutch at around 6k and I'm not quite stock anymore either (although I am still NA).

I'm trying to figure this one out, not create an argument. I haven't driven a Speed 3, but I own a Speed 6, and used to own an RX8. My Speed 6 which is a good 450-500lbs heavier then a speed 3 can still pull on an RX8, at least in my experience. The Speed 3 I'd imagine is a bit faster rolling then the Speed 6 due to the weight. Even throwing out magazine times, there's just no way this is possible, unless either driver error, or something isn't right with his Speed 3, or your car isn't stock, and is pushing out similiar WHP numbers. Those cars have a lot more whp, and a boatload more torque while not weighing a whole more. Not really close at all in a straight line, and not worth discussing.

With that said, straight line power isn't everything, and the RX8 is a sexy, absolutely fun to drive machine, and the fact that it's not as fast as the Speed 3 doesn't say much to me. There are a lot more things to a car then power and performance.

Carrera26

05-19-2007, 05:45 PM

There is just such a huge anti-FWD bias areound here that it blows me away. I don't think that there are very many actual racers on this site because anyone who has been to a Road Course or especially an autocross knows that there are plenty of FWD cars that could hand you your a$$ on a silver platter. With the right driver, nearly any POS front-driver can simply dominate people.

Don't forget that in the recent Car & Driver comparison, the RX-8 got beaten by nearly 2 seconds by a stock FWD Audi TT 2.0T.

I usually placed top 10 raw times in my regional SCCA autocrosses with a street-tired SVT Focus, beating many much "faster" cars along the way. A FWD car can handle and be very very fast in the hands of someone who knows how.

NoTears316

05-19-2007, 07:30 PM

good job

rowteree

05-19-2007, 07:48 PM

delhi

05-19-2007, 07:55 PM

tajabaho1

05-19-2007, 09:13 PM

roflmao at the mazdaspeed 3, 0-60=fast, after that...........lawl

funspork

05-19-2007, 09:15 PM

Who freaken cares???????????? the 3 is freaken UGLY. Looks like a cheap POS.

NoTears316

05-19-2007, 09:28 PM

did I say... good job?

Rx8urZ

05-20-2007, 02:32 PM

ok the the 3 may be faster but..........can it do a sweet ass donut?or a perfectly balanced drift?didnt think so mua ha ha

VASasha

05-20-2007, 03:24 PM

rx8pilot

05-20-2007, 03:35 PM

I don't know what people think they are talking about.

There are only 2 categories that the MS3 will out do an RX-8. 0-60 and gas mileage. Even in the 0-60, it's really close and would depend on the driver. Depending on the driver and the RPM he is launching at, the 0-60 can go to the RX-8.

Brakes, turns, handling, etc... go to the RX-8.

Also, there are mods for the RX-8. Has nobody paid attention to the Pettit SC, Greddy Turbo, Mazsport Turbo (versions of the kit can put down 400 HP), etc...??? There are NA mods for the RX-8 like AP pulley, flywheel, exhaust, ram air duct, etc... Now you may question what the gains are for the mods on each car, but don't think the RX-8 can't get improvement from its mods.

Furthermore, the RX-8 can handle the mods in terms of handling of the car. The MS3 is still a box, that with too much power you may "lose control" in the wrong situation.

Lastly, when it comes to looks of the car, there is no comparison. The RX-8 wins hands down.

ok dude..i'm telling you from experience of actually owning both cars...as did someone else on this post.. so take it for what you will... and as always..beauty is objective.. i happen to like the way the hatch looks..that's me..i don't care if you do or not.. i also loved the way the 8 looked..which is why i gave it the nod over the 3.. as far as braking..handing..and "handling mods" it's obvious to me you don't really know the speed 3... i don't know where you got your braking bit..but it stops rather well.. in fact it's 60-0 is one foot shy of a brembo equipped EVO...so u tell me if that's bad or not.. and here are direct figures from car and driver for reference.

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Mazdaspeed 3
Zero to 60 mph: 5.8 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 14.8 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 21.9 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.7 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.4 sec @ 99 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 167 ft
Roadholding, 200-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g

RX-8
.92g skidpad (like i said..handling is excellent..as it should be on this car)
Zero to 60 mph: 6.5 sec (not even close to the 3)
Zero to 100 in 18.0 sec (arriving here almost 4 seconds after the 3..are you kidding??)
Braking, 70-0 mph: 163ft (not much diff here i would say..esp. for a car that weighs about 200 lbs less than a speed 3)
1/4 mile in 15 @ 93mph

get my point? i'm not mad at ya! it's just people should be a little more informed when they just start ripping a car...shit..it's a mazda! be proud of the sucker!

and as already stated..2 of us that have owned both..spoke up and say the 3 is more performance than 8..period..

even around most tracks..the 3 will still win..no flaming going on as i love the 8..it's just fact. point is..just enjoy your ride..there are always faster cars than you..

rx8pilot

05-20-2007, 03:38 PM

go play need for speed carbon, it has a very realistic portrayal of how the ms3 and the rx8 responds to mods. I believe in the game the rx8 is the best tier one handling car, but the ms3 is quicker in the straights. Both drivers being equal in the game, im sure the rx8 would win.

Now some of you might say that its just a game, its not realistic, but i beg to differ, 1)the rx8 gets slightly better acceleration with turbo and bolt ons and suspension increases greatly with suspension mods. 2) the ms3 responds better to engine mods and has better straight line performance, but suffers on the big turns where it really counts on driver skill.

OMG i just read this! hahahahahaha

i have played it..and once again..if you notice in the begining..it even tells you the cars aren't exactly a portrayal of real life cars performance..and it's obvious when in the game..after modding the 3 it hardly gets to 120!! :) sorry dude.. but in r/l the thing gets to 120 like a bat out of hell..and then past it...stock. not to mention 155 limited speed where the rx-8 (still seconds from reaching it's top speed) will be dissapearing in the horizon behind you...right now..like it or not the speed 3 is mazdas fastest car.. that may change in 2010 with the supposed new rx-7 coming.. and it should be..shoot..i think mazda messed up not making the 8 (it's top tier car) the fastest one..or at least damn close..

edit- the only game i've seen that is almost so accurate you can base your performance by it has been the gran turismo series.. hopefully they'll come out with a new one soon.

RPIRX-8

05-20-2007, 04:01 PM

ok dude..i'm telling you from experience of actually owning both cars...as did someone else on this post.. so take it for what you will... and as always..beauty is objective.. i happen to like the way the hatch looks..that's me..i don't care if you do or not.. i also loved the way the 8 looked..which is why i gave it the nod over the 3.. as far as braking..handing..and "handling mods" it's obvious to me you don't really know the speed 3... i don't know where you got your braking bit..but it stops rather well.. in fact it's 60-0 is one foot shy of a brembo equipped EVO...so u tell me if that's bad or not.. and here are direct figures from car and driver for reference.

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Mazdaspeed 3
Zero to 60 mph: 5.8 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 14.8 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 21.9 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.7 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.4 sec @ 99 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 167 ft
Roadholding, 200-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g

RX-8
.92g skidpad (like i said..handling is excellent..as it should be on this car)
Zero to 60 mph: 6.5 sec (not even close to the 3)
Zero to 100 in 18.0 sec (arriving here almost 4 seconds after the 3..are you kidding??)
Braking, 70-0 mph: 163ft (not much diff here i would say..esp. for a car that weighs about 200 lbs less than a speed 3)
1/4 mile in 15 @ 93mph

get my point? i'm not mad at ya! it's just people should be a little more informed when they just start ripping a car...shit..it's a mazda! be proud of the sucker!

and as already stated..2 of us that have owned both..spoke up and say the 3 is more performance than 8..period..

even around most tracks..the 3 will still win..no flaming going on as i love the 8..it's just fact. point is..just enjoy your ride..there are always faster cars than you..

Thank god there are actually some fact minded, realistic people on this forum. It is really starting to bug me how people on this forum get all offended when a perceived "econobox" is faster than an RX-8. I think the current Evo looks great on the outside and like a $1 store on the inside, its much faster than an RX-8, does that make it a bad car? Enjoy the RX-8 for what it is, heck, mine is getting a turbo in 2 weeks and it STILL won't be faster in a straight line than my MS3, but I will have a ton more fun driving it.

Furthermore, as was stated above, we should all be applauding Mazda for releasing such a great car. Have you seen how much press the MS3 is getting? Its been on the cover of almost every major car mag since it came out. Mazda is getting great coverage. Oh, and guess what.. they are using that coverage to boot strap excitement about the new RX-7, thats good for us!! AAAND, as I've stated before on this forum, where do you think Mazda is getting its $$$ for R&D on the rotary?? Yah, the Mazda3 and Mazda6 sales!! We are all in the same family, grow up and clap, this buds for you.

rowteree

05-20-2007, 04:13 PM

OMG i just read this! hahahahahaha

i have played it..and once again..if you notice in the begining..it even tells you the cars aren't exactly a portrayal of real life cars performance..and it's obvious when in the game..after modding the 3 it hardly gets to 120!! :) sorry dude.. but in r/l the thing gets to 120 like a bat out of hell..and then past it...stock. not to mention 155 limited speed where the rx-8 (still seconds from reaching it's top speed) will be dissapearing in the horizon behind you...right now..like it or not the speed 3 is mazdas fastest car.. that may change in 2010 with the supposed new rx-7 coming.. and it should be..shoot..i think mazda messed up not making the 8 (it's top tier car) the fastest one..or at least damn close..

edit- the only game i've seen that is almost so accurate you can base your performance by it has been the gran turismo series.. hopefully they'll come out with a new one soon.

hey atleast i tried. MS3 is faster in the straights, rx8 faster in the turns. nuff said

rx8pilot

05-20-2007, 04:15 PM

hey atleast i tried. MS3 is faster in the straights, rx8 faster in the turns. nuff said

ur right!! except it's not good to be faster through a turn if you don't have the torque to come out of it right? :)

and the "handling" flag wavers for this car should know that around a track ...where handling should outshine power..or make it equal..the speed 3 is getting around that faster too.....nuff said

Betelgeuse

05-20-2007, 07:48 PM

ok dude..i'm telling you from experience of actually owning both cars...as did someone else on this post.. so take it for what you will... and as always..beauty is objective.. i happen to like the way the hatch looks..that's me..i don't care if you do or not.. i also loved the way the 8 looked..which is why i gave it the nod over the 3.. as far as braking..handing..and "handling mods" it's obvious to me you don't really know the speed 3... i don't know where you got your braking bit..but it stops rather well.. in fact it's 60-0 is one foot shy of a brembo equipped EVO...so u tell me if that's bad or not.. and here are direct figures from car and driver for reference.

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Mazdaspeed 3
Zero to 60 mph: 5.8 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 14.8 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 21.9 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.7 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.4 sec @ 99 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 167 ft
Roadholding, 200-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g

RX-8
.92g skidpad (like i said..handling is excellent..as it should be on this car)
Zero to 60 mph: 6.5 sec (not even close to the 3)
Zero to 100 in 18.0 sec (arriving here almost 4 seconds after the 3..are you kidding??)
Braking, 70-0 mph: 163ft (not much diff here i would say..esp. for a car that weighs about 200 lbs less than a speed 3)
1/4 mile in 15 @ 93mph

get my point? i'm not mad at ya! it's just people should be a little more informed when they just start ripping a car...shit..it's a mazda! be proud of the sucker!

and as already stated..2 of us that have owned both..spoke up and say the 3 is more performance than 8..period..

even around most tracks..the 3 will still win..no flaming going on as i love the 8..it's just fact. point is..just enjoy your ride..there are always faster cars than you..

haha, I love this thread. New C&D tests from the may edition puts the ms3 at
5.4 0-60 and 14 flat in the quarter at 101 mph with a 0-100 in the high 13s. The numbers above were from their initial tests when they had issues with traction and launching. Looked like they found someone who could actually drive the car to get the new numbers. I'll admit pulling a 5.4 is not easy in this car as the wheels want to break loose so easily.

Here's the link:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/12668/2007-mazdaspeed-3-gt.html

Download the test sheet to get all the numbers.

Personally I think both these cars are fine cars in their own right and the RX-8 is more of a true sports car than the ms3. But don't put down or underestimate the performance and handling of the ms3 just because it's FWD and looks somewhat like a wagon. You might be surprised.

Brettus

05-20-2007, 08:00 PM

Was talking to a guy that is racing an RX8 in our production series here in NZ . He is having real trouble keeping up with Honda Integra type R 's & a BMW 130i & I gave him a few tips I've learned off this site (not that it will help him much) . He has to run at 1300 kgs while the Integras I think are allowed 1200kg & are more powerfull.
The STI's & Evos race with him but in a different class (luckily)
Next year Mazda NZ will enter a MS3 in the series & it will be a real contender . Man that will break my heart seeing a little box going right past an 8 .

He was talking about selling the car & I toyed with the idea of buying it for a moment - but I just can't see how it could become competitive.

Ike

05-20-2007, 08:57 PM

rx8pilot

05-20-2007, 09:01 PM

haha, I love this thread. New C&D tests from the may edition puts the ms3 at
5.4 0-60 and 14 flat in the quarter at 101 mph with a 0-100 in the high 13s. The numbers above were from their initial tests when they had issues with traction and launching.

lol..thanks for finding that..i knew i had seen it but just couldn't find it..anywho..the first figures were still enough to end this debate..the 2nd ones just embarass the 8..it's sad but true. i still love the 8 though and will eventually own one again..or the new version that comes out in the future..be it a revamped 8 or new 7

sosonic

05-20-2007, 09:45 PM

funspork

05-20-2007, 09:58 PM

Ask any female on the planet which car she would like to ride in, 3 or 8?

crimson-rain

05-20-2007, 10:02 PM

Why on earth did Mazda make the MS3 faster than the 8?

rx8pilot

05-20-2007, 10:12 PM

RX-8
0-60 mph : 5.8 sec.
0-¼ mile : 14.49

As far as magazine racing goes... there are sources reporting the RX-8 at 5.8 to 5.9. It's not to say that average joe is going to pull those times, but the average Joe MS3 driver will not pull a 5.4 sec. 0-60 either.

Yeah, the MS3 is a bit faster in 0-60 and depending on the driver, but its still a box.

Put a good FI kit on the RX-8 and nobody looking at the FI RX-8 would be thinking about a MS3.

How many people do you think would prefer an 300HP FI RX-8 to a 300HP MS3? I think the vast majority would vote RX-8.

MS3 and other competitors in that cash range, needs to be faster in the 0-60. Its their selling point. Without it, they would not get a 2nd look by many, when compared to the RX-8.

A co-worker has a Mazda 3 (not the MS3) and just by the interior, body, design, etc... I was not that impressed. Don't get me wrong, the Mazda 3/MS3 body at least looks better than the butt ugly older EVO or STI, but still... a box is a box.

sorry man..but ur logic is not all there on this one.. anyone can make anything go fast with money.. we're talking stock to stock....u proved the point with ur own stats..3 is faster..we're not asking what looks nicer..it's what is faster.. got it? :)

and btw..if you wanna play the mod game..there are already full engine component upgrades for the speed 3..upgraded turbo..and a cobb access port on the way..as well as many other things...the MS coilovers and some stickier tires alone but the skidpad numbers above the 8...and the fact that it takes a hell of alot more money to get horsepower on the 8 as compared to the 3... you'd spend about twice on the 8 to get the same hp gains.. so deal with it. don't get your panties in a bunch thinkin about it.. you won't have to look at the "box" that long because it will be out of sight in a few..child seat in the back and all :) don't you worry. /end rant

Betelgeuse

05-20-2007, 10:30 PM

RX-8
0-60 mph : 5.8 sec.
0-¼ mile : 14.49

As far as magazine racing goes... there are sources reporting the RX-8 at 5.8 to 5.9. It's not to say that average joe is going to pull those times, but the average Joe MS3 driver will not pull a 5.4 sec. 0-60 either.

Yeah, the MS3 is a bit faster in 0-60 and depending on the driver, but its still a box.

Put a good FI kit on the RX-8 and nobody looking at the FI RX-8 would be thinking about a MS3.

How many people do you think would prefer an 300HP FI RX-8 to a 300HP MS3? I think the vast majority would vote RX-8.

MS3 and other competitors in that cash range, needs to be faster in the 0-60. Its their selling point. Without it, they would not get a 2nd look by many, when compared to the RX-8.

A co-worker has a Mazda 3 (not the MS3) and just by the interior, body, design, etc... I was not that impressed. Don't get me wrong, the Mazda 3/MS3 body at least looks better than the butt ugly older EVO or STI, but still... a box is a box.

The ms3's 0 60 is not where it really shines. Being fwd it can't hook up as good as a rwd or awd. It shines in its roll-on performance. On the highway it would embarrass many cars and get decent mileage doing it too.

As far as it being a box, IMO it's far from it. A scion XB or a honda element is a box. The ms3 is simply a sports compact with an attitude. It doesn't have to have a top-notch interior or all the luxuries so that's a moot point.

RPIRX-8

05-20-2007, 10:39 PM

RX-8
0-60 mph : 5.8 sec.
0-¼ mile : 14.49

As far as magazine racing goes... there are sources reporting the RX-8 at 5.8 to 5.9. It's not to say that average joe is going to pull those times, but the average Joe MS3 driver will not pull a 5.4 sec. 0-60 either.

Yeah, the MS3 is a bit faster in 0-60 and depending on the driver, but its still a box.

Put a good FI kit on the RX-8 and nobody looking at the FI RX-8 would be thinking about a MS3.

How many people do you think would prefer an 300HP FI RX-8 to a 300HP MS3? I think the vast majority would vote RX-8.

MS3 and other competitors in that cash range, needs to be faster in the 0-60. Its their selling point. Without it, they would not get a 2nd look by many, when compared to the RX-8.

A co-worker has a Mazda 3 (not the MS3) and just by the interior, body, design, etc... I was not that impressed. Don't get me wrong, the Mazda 3/MS3 body at least looks better than the butt ugly older EVO or STI, but still... a box is a box.

perhaps you should read the entirety of the articles that reported those 0-60 times for the RX-8. I believe on mag even got 5.7 or lower, but had to dump the clutch @ 6000 rpms to do it. Now how many launches like that will it take to destroy everything in the driveline of that car? The MS3 could do 5.7- 6.0 sec 0-60 withouth destroying the driveline of the car.

takahashi

05-20-2007, 10:47 PM

Talking stock to stock... there are many posts in ozmazdaclub.com that the Mazdaspeed 3 is having durability problem on the track. This little engine is not happy in heat.

Bathhurst 24 hours is not fun for the 3, however they have won Tasmania Targa Rally in their class....

Tracking NA 8 is not a problem to us... many of us track continuously and so far the weakest link is the coolant, clutch and gearbox...

rx8pilot

05-20-2007, 11:03 PM

Ask any female on the planet which car she would like to ride in, 3 or 8?

we talkin a real woman..with 2 kids? :) or one that will be having kids in the near future? lol get over it dude..in all reality..most women don't give a rats ass..they just know that put you back in your seat feeling when IN the car..rx-8 doesn't quite do it. and if you do get someone that picks the 8 and you 2 get married down the road..she's the same one that's gonna make you trade it in on a real 4-door or suv...

and btw..u can seat 4 fine women in the 3..only 3 in the 8 :)..and those 2 in the back better be tiny little things...lol

VikingDJ

05-22-2007, 08:55 AM

Are people that insecure here? That some factory tuned econobox will outrun our precious rx8 that owners have to post all sorts of "if" situations? Geez... when I had my old MZ3, it never bothered me one bit that a Dodge Neon turbo or an EVO will out sprint me. I feel secure about what I purchased then and now with the 8 so what if some souped up hatchback will toast me at the hwy or whatnot.
I bought the 8 after much shopping around and discover overtime that Mazda put heckuva thought into designing this car around the Renesis. Just look at the details put in on the RX-8 vs. the rest of the Mazda lineup and you can easily see why to this date the RX-8 is still Mazda's flagship.
I like the fact that the other day when I pulled into the Mazda dealership that the sales guys or the technician all stopped whatever be it wiping a MSP6 or a mazda3 to look at the 8 and its driver.
Likewise I am sure the 3series coupe owners would be pwned by these crop of hot-boxes, but I doubt any one of 'em would want to trade their 330ci or whatnot for one of those. There's more to life....mmmkay.

Yes, people have insecurities regarding the RX8, so they need to create If situations. See it all the time. Everyone wants to do it. Hell, even the guys on the Speed 3 and 6 forums do that when comparing the car to the STI. Anything to try and make the car better in something. I don't understand it either. People should just admit it, and respect it. It's a more affordable, more practicle car, that happens to go like stink, and is Mazda's fastest car. Faster doesn't mean better, some people can't handle it. Which is ashame. You're right too. a BMW owner wouldn't give two craps that the the Mazda is faster, because he'd know he has a better car.
The RX8 is in a different league overall, costs more money, is originally built, is a sports car. Both are great cars, but they have different purposes. The mere fact that RX8 owners flame on the Speed 3 when there is no other arguing to make the RX8 as fast only proves insecurity. Get over it, and be happy with your purchase for cryin out loud. A Speed 3 can likely beat my S2000. Do you think I give a crap? Sheesh. hehe

Rhawb

05-22-2007, 09:51 AM

Just two weeks ago with my 8's lease coming up, I went car hunting and ended up buying a Speed 3. I can tell you right now that the Speed is MUCH easier to drive fast, and corners damn near as well as the 8, despite being an FWD car. For the first time ever, I'm not constantly thinking to myself "man, FWD sucks" every time I get on the throttle or take a corner. This car hides it flaw very VERY well.

All the nay-sayers should go try one out. Even if it's not something you could see yourself purchasing, it's still a hell of a car.

tjbourgoyne

05-22-2007, 11:04 AM

Rhawb -

Have you driven it on a track.

eviltwinkie

05-22-2007, 11:24 AM

Meh...

Yeah they are fast...and after driving one that had a FMIC and EMU work done to boost power...I came away thinking that it felt..."peppy"...too heavy and I could feel it...

The only one that I could say was decent was at TWS...a heavily modded red one...

Still doesnt do it for me...

Rhawb

05-22-2007, 12:14 PM

Rhawb -

Have you driven it on a track.
Not yet, I'm still working on getting myself out to an autox. Though, pushing it on freeway on-ramps and whipping through my favorite twisties that I ran with the 8, the car is remarkably well behaved. I've only once experienced a tiny bit of understeer, and I was really standing on the throttle while carrying a pretty good g-load. My old Sentra (145hp) and Protege 5 (130hp) would understeer all day long, I couldn't believe how well this car behaved when I took it out for a test drive.

CarAndDriver

05-22-2007, 12:19 PM

^ fun fun

350zFan

05-23-2007, 03:47 AM

damn, must be deflating to see mazda turbo'ing a maz3 wagon over an rx8, whassup w/ that. Someone smack their r&d leads and get their priorities straight. the maz3 was intended to be an sporty fwd econobox .. its like passing the throne to the 2nd/3rd son.

Carrera26

05-23-2007, 04:39 PM

Anyone who thinks FWD can't handle or has to bown down to RWD on track hasn't ever been to the track. With the right skillset and setup (IE alignment & tire pressures) a FWD can be quite a weapon on nearly any track out there. I am coming from an SVT Focus, and with just a change in the PSIs of my daily-driver Azenis and no other mods would typically take top-10 raw times at the autocross and in the top 25% at our local small roadcourse with the Mustang club. The SVT was a phenomenal little car and handled exceptionally, and was in many ways easier to drive fast than the RX8.

So there are some faster FWDs. Who the hell cares. If you bought the RX-8 thinking it was the fastest car around then you didn't do very much research. If you bought the RX8 because it was one of the most enjoyable cars around, like I did, and like it despite the fact that somewhere/somehow somebody else is faster then good for you.

There is always something out there going faster for less $$$. Look at the Grassroots Motorsport $2006 challenge. 10-12 second daily drivers that can annhilate an autocross for less than $2006. Just enjoy the fact that you have a great car and have fun.

edit:

Also, don't forget that the devleopment of the turbo 2.3 is supported by 3 vehicles currently, (MS3, MS6, CX-7) and could easily have more. Not to mention that it gives them and parent ford even more knowledge about how to maximize an engine that they make by the millions. That makes it a MUCH better candidate for research dollars than the complex and low production rotary.

Renzokuken

05-24-2007, 12:24 AM

Rhawb

05-24-2007, 01:10 AM

I don't know. I found something distinctly more enjoyable about driving the 8. Something about driving the 3 leaves me a bit disconcerted. I think it's in the shifting - real short gears that run out real fast don't suit this car real well - I feel like as soon as I'm done shifting, it's time to shift again. This car also seems to view downshifting as a chore, every time I heel-toe into a corner, it seems like the car is fighting with me.

That said, though, it sure is fast, fun to drive and practical. No doubt my only choice out of the $20k-ish crowd. Drove a Civic Si minutes before driving the Speed 3 and I kept thinking to myself "eh...the Si is a nice car, but that drive was really underwhelming." Then, when I drove the Speed 3 I didn't stop thinking about the test drive for a week.

Raptor2k

05-24-2007, 01:19 AM

I own both. If you wanna know which one is the faster of the two, The MS3 is the faster one hands down. The RX8 looks better. The MS3 is a waay better price. The RX8 is more fun to drive, but not by much. They are both very fun, but the MS3 is way faster, way cheaper and is why more gas efficient and alot less maintenence. IMHO the I like the MS3 better than the RX8 overall. Think of it this way. The RX8 is a good fu** for a cool minute, but I would marry the MS3.

Only a few Gs less, RX8 should be way, way funner than that box, it isn't way way faster, and if adding oil every 2000 miles is a lot of maintenance to you, then so be it. I can't imagine marrying a MS3. I think a car like a Mustang would suit you best.

Steiner

05-24-2007, 02:29 AM

Went to an AutoX event last weekend in Cupertino, CA to watch a buddy run his WRX with a JDM EJ20. It was mostly 2nd and 3rd gears for the field...unless there were S2000's or RX8's - they went into 1st gear occasionally and went into 3rd gear less. I don't remember all the different classes but there were two MS3's out there running right with WRX wagons and SRT-4 ACR's. In as much as an AutoX event reveals a car's handling tendencies, I thought the MS3 was damn close to the RX-8 and Fox Body Mustangs in the field. I'd give the nod to the RX-8 with equal drivers, but it's not the landslide victory some people on here are making it out to be.

Carrera26

05-24-2007, 04:08 PM

I can't imagine anyone with actual racing experience thinking that there would be a landslide victory either way. Especially in autocross, with identical drivers it would likely come down to course design and whether it favored power/FWD or RWD...

a-spec fd

05-24-2007, 05:00 PM

:SHOCKED:WHAT!*@! The MS3 is faster in a strait line and handles well! I've gotta get to a mazda dealership right NOW to trade in my outdated 2007 rx8. I love hatchbacks x2, there so metro!

a-spec fd

05-24-2007, 05:04 PM

Oh yeah:

Mazda + piston engine = ok

Mazda + rotary = Brilliance

350zFan

05-24-2007, 06:32 PM

Sorry for trolling again, but again my 2cents -- I think the Maz3speed / Maz6speed will inevitably be the demise of the rx8 if they dont do something w/ it (the rx8) soon and significantly. Anytime u see intra-company competition between models, u know someone is stepping on someone's feet and there is an overlap and redunance in market competition and r&d effort/development.

Case in point : they axed the prelude as the integra/rsx was beefed with more power and sold way better. they axed the integra/rsx once the the civic si was beefed w/ more power and sold much better. they were all competing in the sporty 2-door coupe class within a reasonable price range.

The only main differentiator the rx8 holds right now is its rwd platform and its suicide doors. The fact that its a rotary-engine is disputable, since its uniqueness is also its weakness with poor power/fuel efficiency.. but ultimately its the sales #'s that will tell what lies ahead...

Steiner

05-24-2007, 08:45 PM

How again is the 13B-MSP a better powerplant than the 2.3L MZR?

CarAndDriver

05-24-2007, 09:08 PM

Case in point : they axed the prelude as the integra/rsx was beefed with more power and sold way better. they axed the integra/rsx once the the civic si was beefed w/ more power and sold much better. they were all competing in the sporty 2-door coupe class within a reasonable price range.

I think you're a bit off....

The Prelude got too expensive and sales plummeted. Acura wants to appear more upscale so they dumped a car that started below $20K.

It is too bad the Prelude got canned. It had more personality than the current Civic Si ever did.

XDEEDUBBX

05-24-2007, 10:22 PM

ktec 2!

05-24-2007, 10:25 PM

Ike

05-25-2007, 12:12 AM

:SHOCKED:WHAT!*@! The MS3 is faster in a strait line and handles well! I've gotta get to a mazda dealership right NOW to trade in my outdated 2007 rx8. I love hatchbacks x2, there so metro!

I suggest you stop and get a dictionary on you're way.

ZING!

+1 Ike -1 Mega Noob

a-spec fd

05-25-2007, 02:58 AM

Shut the fuck up Go-bot!

King of Krap +1 Mega noob +2

NoTears316

05-25-2007, 09:33 AM

I'm just gonna get a Cobalt and be done with it.

yz007

05-25-2007, 09:37 AM

The MazdaSpeed 3 is like the Rx8's fat but sorta cute sister. She might get into bed QUICKER but she can't do what the 8 can do. Its like do you want Jennifer Aniston(rx8) or Jennifer Hudson(MS3)

Rosko350z

05-25-2007, 11:11 AM

Anyone who thinks FWD can't handle or has to bown down to RWD on track hasn't ever been to the track. With the right skillset and setup (IE alignment & tire pressures) a FWD can be quite a weapon on nearly any track out there. I am coming from an SVT Focus, and with just a change in the PSIs of my daily-driver Azenis and no other mods would typically take top-10 raw times at the autocross and in the top 25% at our local small roadcourse with the Mustang club. The SVT was a phenomenal little car and handled exceptionally, and was in many ways easier to drive fast than the RX8.

So there are some faster FWDs. Who the hell cares. If you bought the RX-8 thinking it was the fastest car around then you didn't do very much research. If you bought the RX8 because it was one of the most enjoyable cars around, like I did, and like it despite the fact that somewhere/somehow somebody else is faster then good for you.

So you're a better driver than a bunch of noobs driving RWD cars?

All things being equal between car and driver except the chosen location of the driven wheels, RWD will almost always own FWD.

FWD: Front tires turn, accelerate and brake. Rear tires? ... Lose contact with the racing surface.

RWD: Front tires turn and brake. Rear tires accelerate and brake.

Why don't "real sports cars" ever have FWD if it's just as good as RWD?

Find a pro racing driver who says that he'd rather have FWD.

Steiner

05-25-2007, 11:35 AM

Rosko350z

05-25-2007, 01:50 PM

Did you even read a word he said?

Anyone who thinks FWD can't handle or has to bown down to RWD on track hasn't ever been to the track.

My argument = FWD has to bow down to RWD.

Steiner

05-25-2007, 02:00 PM

My argument = FWD has to bow down to RWD.Another big swing and a miss. I took from Carrera26's post that, with the proper setup, certain FWD cars can hang on certain tracks and certain track setups with any car. Am I mistaken? Try to find something you agree with in a post before you become fixated on debate.

eviltwinkie

05-25-2007, 02:10 PM

http://www.catwack.com/pics/223.jpg

Carrera26

05-25-2007, 05:44 PM

So you're a better driver than a bunch of noobs driving RWD cars?

All things being equal between car and driver except the chosen location of the driven wheels, RWD will almost always own FWD.

FWD: Front tires turn, accelerate and brake. Rear tires? ... Lose contact with the racing surface.

RWD: Front tires turn and brake. Rear tires accelerate and brake.

Why don't "real sports cars" ever have FWD if it's just as good as RWD?

Find a pro racing driver who says that he'd rather have FWD.

Oh... Like Jeff Altenburg or Pierre Kleinubing or one of the other drivers who currently and consistenly win Touring Car races vs. RWD competition. Or British Touring Car... or several SCCA classes (like STS), or any one of the number of regular track days going on out in the world where light & agile FWDs take the fight to RWDs and win. I guess the professional instructors at the SVT Owners Association trackdays were mistaken, foolish noobs when they advised the S/C Cobra owners to let the SVT Focuses by when we parked on their rear bumpers through half the track.

Don't be prejudiced. FWDs are typically lighter and have a better grip/weight ratio than most RWDs sold today (my SVTF had 225 Azenis and weighed 2640lbs), and are also quite a bit more stable through quick transitions. Recovery from an understeer situation is typically easier and quicker to rectify, and besides with the right setup a FWD can be totally neutral. I could make my car oversteer darn near anytime I liked.

Just go to a few trackdays or autocrosses, watch good and experienced FWD and RWD drivers running neck and neck and you will understand.

eviltwinkie

05-25-2007, 05:50 PM

Just go to a few trackdays or autocrosses, watch good and experienced FWD and RWD drivers running neck and neck and you will understand.

I do...and they dont...so solly...

http://www.catwack.com/pics/23.jpg

haa haa haa...

SmokeyTheBalrog

05-25-2007, 06:19 PM

Wow... I always wondering where all the toast in the word came from... I guess 10% of it comes from this thread.

Carrera26

05-25-2007, 07:20 PM

Try looking a little harder. Maybe even at your own local events...

Texas Spokes Region SCCA Autocross Results (http://axwaresystems.com/axorm/files/SPOKES/2007e4_raw.htm)

Event 2 (http://www.spokes.org/results/2007e3burger_raw_.htm)

Event 3 (http://www.spokes.org/results/2007e2driveway_raw_.htm)

Don't let me stew in the suspense here... does the RX-8 ever beat that Civic?

Or maybe you didn't see these Stock class Mini Coopers in the neighboring region... Kinda hard to believe you didn't notice them putting 3 seconds on the fastest RX-8, and beating all the CS miatas.

Houston Region Results (http://houscca.com/solo/results07/07REG05B.TXT)

Would you like me to branch out into road racing results from Texas Motor Speedway or should I just stop now?

NMOcho

05-25-2007, 07:58 PM

I agree that Mazda needs to get more power in the 8 or it will be gone. RX-7 is planned for 2010 so think the 8 is on the way out. Now the speed3 is quick/fast but it doesn't turn heads like an 8. In short, you can drive a budget HP car or get an 8 that has some good speed, amazing handling/braking and styling.

SmokeyTheBalrog

05-25-2007, 08:04 PM

Sigh... there is NO RX-7 PLANNED OR ANNOUNCED. ok? get over it. 2010 will be an updated Rx-8 with luck it will have FI.

There will never again be a Rx-7. And say we take a pipe dream trip and say there was a new Rx-7, the stats would be ~2800 lbs+ and making the same 230 crank (~180 to the wheels) hp.

You *might* get as light as 2700 lbs.

Mugatu

05-25-2007, 10:12 PM

I suggest you stop and get a dictionary on you're way.

ZING!

+1 Ike -1 Mega Noob

-1 for Ike. you spelled YOUR wrong. i don't think you meant 'to get a dictionary on YOU ARE way.

+1 Mugatu

eviltwinkie

05-26-2007, 12:06 AM

Ike

05-26-2007, 12:06 AM

-1 for Ike. you spelled YOUR wrong. i don't think you meant 'to get a dictionary on YOU ARE way.

+1 Mugatu

-3 for missing the intended humor by using you're instead of your since the noob used there instead of they're.

Finally tally:

Ike: +2
Mugatu: -3
Noob: -26 for the noob for calling me a toy and being an overall fanboi and idiot

Woooo, what do I win?

takahashi

05-26-2007, 12:10 AM

Carrera26

05-26-2007, 01:05 AM

The driver is the ultimate arbiter, but it goes to show, over and over again, that nearly any platform can be made to work.

FWD can be fast, RWD can be fast, AWD can be fast. People assuming that

"FWD must always bow down to RWD" are living in an insecure dreamworld. Enjoy your car for what it is and stop worrying about what everyone else is driving.

takahashi

05-26-2007, 01:19 AM

Driving style has to change in regards to FWD driving...

Can be very fast as well, you can lift off oversteer to point the car to the direction and use the traction of the front wheel and power to bring it out of the corner.

peterisurhero

05-26-2007, 02:16 AM

man..i hate to admit this but the 3 is quite fast in the straights...

eviltwinkie

05-26-2007, 11:26 AM

man..i hate to admit this but the 3 is quite fast in the straights...

Why hate to admit it? Its got boost...ANYTHING can be made fast simply by slapping a turbo on it...that is NOT rocket science...

Slap a turbo on your RX and then you can punk the MS3/6 all day long...

NoTears316

05-26-2007, 12:57 PM

I would be more disappointed if something with a turbo didn't move very fast in the straights.

Steiner

05-26-2007, 05:43 PM

Why hate to admit it? Its got boost...ANYTHING can be made fast simply by slapping a turbo on it...that is NOT rocket science...

Slap a turbo on your RX and then you can punk the MS3/6 all day long...It's that simple, huh? Tell us about all those 500whp RX-8's running aftermarket turbos then. Do you have any idea how much prepatory work should go into a motor before it's boosted?

I shouldn't be suprised by your ricer logic though. I half expected that kind of comment from somebody who answers an informative autocross post with a juvenile kitty picture.

eviltwinkie

05-27-2007, 02:26 AM

It's that simple, huh? Tell us about all those 500whp RX-8's running aftermarket turbos then. Do you have any idea how much prepatory work should go into a motor before it's boosted?

I shouldn't be suprised by your ricer logic though. I half expected that kind of comment from somebody who answers an informative autocross post with a juvenile kitty picture.

Yes its that simple...EVERYONE except you apparently knows that all you do is super glue a turbo to the hood of your car for an instant 500+HP boost...

And then you have to add the huge rear wing to keep that that power down to the ground...its all aboot the downforce...

And THEN you HAVE to glue on the stickers, type-r logos, and crasy paintjob cause that adds like an extra 50HP...

Finally you add a huge resonator to the rear of the car to free up the exhaust and add yet another 50HP...

In order to put all that power to the ground...you THEN need to use at least 24" rims with spinners to keep the inertia of the rotation as well as extra grip...

PFFFT....its apparent you know NOTHING about how to make a car go fast....

http://www.catwack.com/pics/257.jpg

heh...

Steiner

05-27-2007, 03:01 AM

I can tell it's sarcasm, it's just tough to tell who it's directed at.

SmokeyTheBalrog

05-27-2007, 03:59 AM

I just get one of those BOV sound effects kits. I feel faster AND my warranty is still intact and I still get the same mpg and if I see a cop I turn it off so I'm no louder than stock and stuff!

Renzokuken

05-27-2007, 04:21 AM

Say what you want about the 3 and the FWD, doesnt change the fact that the 3 is faster.

eviltwinkie

05-27-2007, 11:28 AM

Say what you want about the 3 and the FWD, doesnt change the fact that the 3 is faster.

No it isnt dude...in fact I registered on the MS3 forum after reading a "kill story" and uber lame thread to set the record straight...

I kill em all the time...I'm all like...hey guy, hows it feel to drive a FWD econobox with a turbo slapped on? Didnt you know that the only thing that can beat an RX-8 is teh crossfire??!?!

After I registered to troll on the MS3 forum...I made them all bow down to the RX-8 due to my superior debating skills...

http://www.catwack.com/pics/46.png

SmokeyTheBalrog

05-27-2007, 05:26 PM

Eviltwinkie give you your kitty picture source! Please!

Say what you want about the 3 and the FWD, doesnt change the fact that the 3 is faster.

If all you care about I think there are better straight line cars than the Mazda3 in the same price range. The Rx-8 is more about driver experience than numbers. It's a joy to drive. I sometimes smile while barely applying power costing out of my driveway. It's fun to drive all the time, not just at WOT.

The list of cars that can trounce the 8 in a straight line is very long. Nothing new there. Still there isn't a car in the 8's price range that I would trade my 8 for. Of course including the MazdaSpeed3.

Ax0elz

06-02-2007, 03:56 PM

Ike

06-03-2007, 03:45 PM

I don't understand why every1 is comparing the MS3 to the RX8 in the first place.
They are not in the same power range i mean come on ~180WHP to ~245WHP.
these are 2 different categories. Stop arguing. RX8 is better.PERIOD! :banghead: :rant:

Great, now that the all knowing one has spoken we can let this thread die. Oh wait, it already had died before you decided to bump it :rolleyes:

Broker73

06-03-2007, 10:25 PM

Great, now that the all knowing one has spoken we can let this thread die. Oh wait, it already had died before you decided to bump it :rolleyes:

My brother just bought a new 07 Mazdaspeed3 .....black Mica colour...it looks great and I think it is great bag for your buck.....we just got back from some back roads test driving:) ...he said all the power is between 3 and 5800rpms...redline is at 6800 roughly?...but after 6k the power dies off.....it does pull nice! great torque, and I think the lines on the car look great with the 18inch rims and tires...good job Mazda...now if only they would develop a MS RX8....his car came with all the options...the only things u can't get is leather and a sunroof (Not avail at all?). But it had everything right down to autoclimate control. Very quick car!

saturn

06-04-2007, 12:02 PM

MS3 > RX-8
MS3+8 > RX
3 Microsofts + 8 > Prescription
Microsoft + 8 > 1/3 Prescription
Microsoft ate 1/3 of my prescription

Q.E.D.

eviltwinkie

06-04-2007, 12:20 PM

Umm no...again the MS3 is teh sux0rs...if you slap a snail on an RX8 its the winz0rs...

In stock trim we pWn it on teh twisties!

We can only lose to teh xfire!!

turblown-econobox FTL!

Now we can let this thread die...

Pololo_RX8

06-04-2007, 12:52 PM

eviltwinkie

06-04-2007, 12:56 PM

My wife just answered this question last weekend.. :) :)

We were way late for a concert on Saturday... and I took the Speed3... There were instances were I was going in the triple digits and in 5th gear even 6th, the car kept pulling and pulling... We were there in RECORD time...(I just made up this story BTW)

Then as we were leaving the concert she tells me... "Why didn't Mazda make an RX8 with this motor?" lol lol I started lughing.. what?? "Yes" she replied... "This car (MS3) is so smooth, so powerful, you don't even feel how fast you are going unlike the RX8, but it doesn't have the looks nor the suspension of the RX. blah blah blah"

You get my point?

I DO MISS the 8 dearly! handling and looks... no way the boxy MS3 will win in this category... but raw power, utility, gas mileage (I averaged 24 MPG with the AC ON going like a bullet) and engine technology the MS3 takes it all the way...

Now IF only the MS3 was RWD, I wouldn't even be having this conversation...

Carlos

If it was RWD it would be a slower blown-econobox due to the weight...the FWD suits it well...

Shame that so many owners are having issues with oil blowing past the turbo seals and eating more oil than we do...(read: blowing tons of white smoke)

Havent seen the problem yet? Just wait you will!!

;)

Pololo_RX8

06-04-2007, 01:10 PM

If it was RWD it would be a slower blown-econobox due to the weight...the FWD suits it well...

Shame that so many owners are having issues with oil blowing past the turbo seals and eating more oil than we do...(read: blowing tons of white smoke)

Havent seen the problem yet? Just wait you will!!

;)

It's not like I wasn't used to take my RX8 in average once every 1.5 months to the dealer due to recalls, brake problems, AC problems, headlight, rear lenses, gas tank, engine problems, etc... However I never cared as I LOVED the RX8...

Funny I haven't SEEN many owners (2 at the most) with the oil blowing past the turbo seals (I am in the 2 MS3 forums BTW)... White smoke IS NOT oil blowing past the turbo and I KNOW about turbos. We are having issues with motor mounts... lol lol

The car runs waaay rich and it defenitely is a detuned engine capable of easily making ~350 WHP with the stock internals...

Anyways, I wished the MS3 was a RWD or better yet an AWD like the MS6...

My 2 cents,
Carlos

eviltwinkie

06-04-2007, 01:46 PM

It's not like I wasn't used to take my RX8 in average once every 1.5 months to the dealer due to recalls, brake problems, AC problems, headlight, rear lenses, gas tank, engine problems, etc... However I never cared as I LOVED the RX8...

Funny I haven't SEEN many owners (2 at the most) with the oil blowing past the turbo seals (I am in the 2 MS3 forums BTW)... White smoke IS NOT oil blowing past the turbo and I KNOW about turbos. We are having issues with motor mounts... lol lol

The car runs waaay rich and it defenitely is a detuned engine capable of easily making ~350 WHP with the stock internals...

Anyways, I wished the MS3 was a RWD or better yet an AWD like the MS6...

My 2 cents,
Carlos

Umm no...you'll see the white smoke problem soon enough...You obviously do not know enough about your turbos...give it a touch of time...

;)

imrtommy

06-04-2007, 01:53 PM

My wife just answered this question last weekend.. :) :)

We were way late for a concert on Saturday... and I took the Speed3... There were instances were I was going in the triple digits and in 5th gear even 6th, the car kept pulling and pulling... We were there in RECORD time...(I just made up this story BTW)

Then as we were leaving the concert she tells me... "Why didn't Mazda make an RX8 with this motor?" lol lol I started lughing.. what?? "Yes" she replied... "This car (MS3) is so smooth, so powerful, you don't even feel how fast you are going unlike the RX8, but it doesn't have the looks nor the suspension of the RX. blah blah blah"

You get my point?

I DO MISS the 8 dearly! handling and looks... no way the boxy MS3 will win in this category... but raw power, utility, gas mileage (I averaged 24 MPG with the AC ON going like a bullet) and engine technology the MS3 takes it all the way...

Now IF only the MS3 was RWD, I wouldn't even be having this conversation...

Carlos

I own both and love love both. Though ill have to admit the 3 is faster for now.(picking up mazsport type 1 tmrw =) )anyway the 3 is for my gf and the other day we were at best buy and she just started laughing out of no where, and I called her crazy. She said "look at the mazda3 exhaust tip its so cute hahaha" .....that's why I love her. Hahah. Then she said "rx8 guys with exhaust would be laughing at you if you didn't have your hks exhaust" =\ . Anyway own both, love both, but all in all, rx8 looks better, handles better, and is more fun to drive. =) rx8 owns mazdaspeed 3. Hahah jk

Ike

06-04-2007, 06:38 PM

Umm no...you'll see the white smoke problem soon enough...You obviously do not know enough about your turbos...give it a touch of time...

;)

Just wait, you'll need a new Renesis soon... You obviously don't know enough about rotaries... give it a touch of time... :suspect:

RshnRoket

06-04-2007, 07:48 PM

saturn

06-04-2007, 07:53 PM

Can you say torque steer? I love Mazda for having the balls to make the Mazdaspeed3, but it is entirely a different animal than the RX-8. Most people who are in the market for an RX-8 will not even look twice at a Mazdaspeed3.

Can you say obvious statement FTL? I love the people who see FWD and immediately start making elitist comments about torque steer like that's the #1 problem facing the world when they probably have never even driven the car.

RshnRoket

06-04-2007, 09:11 PM

Can you say obvious statement FTL? I love the people who see FWD and immediately start making elitist comments about torque steer like that's the #1 problem facing the world when they probably have never even driven the car.

Either way, it is way too much power being sent to the front wheels in a car. Just a personal opinion, no need for attacks. :beer05:

Betelgeuse

06-04-2007, 11:57 PM

Umm no...you'll see the white smoke problem soon enough...You obviously do not know enough about your turbos...give it a touch of time...

;)

It seems the early '06 ms6 builds are the ones with the possible turbo problem:

http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=74907&st=0

And if you read the thread you'll see that some of the issues are most likely leaking coolant and not oil. The '07s don't seem to have the issue.

As for the ms3, none that I know of. I've already hit 13k and nothing.

Seems like you're reaching a little too hard and fast right now. You're making some noise but not quite talking out your as* yet.

Betelgeuse

06-05-2007, 12:01 AM

Can you say obvious statement FTL? I love the people who see FWD and immediately start making elitist comments about torque steer like that's the #1 problem facing the world when they probably have never even driven the car.

+1

Well said! Of course there's torque steer, but in no way would I call it too much. A little time behind the wheel is all it takes to get used to it.

eviltwinkie

06-05-2007, 10:22 AM

Just wait, you'll need a new Renesis soon... You obviously don't know enough about rotaries... give it a touch of time... :suspect:

I never argued that...you obviously don't know enough about literacy...give it a touch of time... :suspect:

eviltwinkie

06-05-2007, 10:24 AM

Can you say obvious statement FTL? I love the people who see FWD and immediately start making elitist comments about torque steer like that's the #1 problem facing the world when they probably have never even driven the car.

I drove one with the XEDE and aftermarket intercooler all boosted up and I came away thinking..."peppy" but fat...dont like the FWD...feels like your driving a big wheel with that huge plastic tire...no thanks...

eviltwinkie

06-05-2007, 10:26 AM

It seems the early '06 ms6 builds are the ones with the possible turbo problem:

http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=74907&st=0

And if you read the thread you'll see that some of the issues are most likely leaking coolant and not oil. The '07s don't seem to have the issue.

As for the ms3, none that I know of. I've already hit 13k and nothing.

Seems like you're reaching a little too hard and fast right now. You're making some noise but not quite talking out your as* yet.

No...its oil for sure...and just as this forum lacks EVERYONE who purchases a car so does that one...you should not use a forum as a measuring stick...

Moving on...the MS3 still sucks...the crossfire is teh fastest thing out there...lets get over that fact and move on...

eviltwinkie

06-05-2007, 10:27 AM

+1

Well said! Of course there's torque steer, but in no way would I call it too much. A little time behind the wheel is all it takes to get used to it.

Yea get used to fighting that steering wheel...:lol2::rolleyes:

saturn

06-05-2007, 12:14 PM

I drove one with the XEDE and aftermarket intercooler all boosted up and I came away thinking..."peppy" but fat...dont like the FWD...feels like your driving a big wheel with that huge plastic tire...no thanks...

Big wheels are for pimps only. Maybe that was your problem.

VikingDJ

06-05-2007, 12:25 PM

It's sad but 100% true that if the Speed 3 was not as fast or couldn't compete with or beat out the RX8 in any type of performance, the bashing or criticism wouldn't exist. Looks like the defensive insecurity is coming out for all to see. Some things never change eh? This site has resorted to bashing a fellow Mazda vehicle now. Come on people, love what you own or what you wish you could own, and respect other cars for why they are built. You are making this site more of an embarassment then it already is. What happened to being secure with the car you own? SHEESH!!!!

eviltwinkie

06-05-2007, 12:26 PM

Big wheels are for pimps only. Maybe that was your problem.

Possibly...since I prefer function over form...and since you know I have an intelligence higher than a dog in heat...not much mind you...but enough to know all show and no go sucks...

eviltwinkie

06-05-2007, 12:27 PM

saturn

06-05-2007, 12:32 PM

Possibly...since I prefer function over form...and since you know I have an intelligence higher than a dog in heat...not much mind you...but enough to know all show and no go sucks...

But think about all the ladies you can get with a big wheel though.

http://www.hatsharpening.com/personal/photos/BigWheels.jpg

eviltwinkie

06-05-2007, 12:35 PM

But think about all the ladies you can get with a big wheel though.

Daaayyaaammnnn....your right...never thought about that one...maybe thats why I never get any play when I'm rolling dirty past the preschools... :lol:

VikingDJ

06-05-2007, 12:37 PM

Slap a turbo on an honda and it will beat a MS3...

Slap a turbo on a crossfire and it will cut thru time and space...

So what's your point again?

You proved my point. LOL At least you can admit it. Much appreciated. ;)

eviltwinkie

06-05-2007, 12:44 PM

You proved my point. LOL At least you can admit it. Much appreciated. ;)

Hai guy...no problem...

http://www.catwack.com/pics/149.jpg

Betelgeuse

06-05-2007, 02:37 PM

No...its oil for sure...and just as this forum lacks EVERYONE who purchases a car so does that one...you should not use a forum as a measuring stick...

Moving on...the MS3 still sucks...the crossfire is teh fastest thing out there...lets get over that fact and move on...

OK it's quite clear now, you ARE indeed talking out your ass. See what a little practice can do? Now carry on, it's amusing.

eviltwinkie

06-05-2007, 03:00 PM

OK it's quite clear now, you ARE indeed talking out your ass. See what a little practice can do? Now carry on, it's amusing.

Its quite clear now...that you lack sarcasm...see what a little sense of humor can do? :lol:

NoTears316

06-05-2007, 03:16 PM

You guys are talking in circles, just let this die.

eviltwinkie

06-05-2007, 03:22 PM

What?? You like pie??

dmp

06-05-2007, 03:49 PM

What?? You like pie??

Yes, and I cannot lie...

eviltwinkie

06-05-2007, 03:50 PM

Yes, and I cannot lie...

I think the other brothas can't deny...

Steiner

06-06-2007, 02:51 AM

eviltwinkie

06-06-2007, 10:29 AM

Another big swing and a miss. You're absolutely enamored with your smug sense of e-sarcasm and e-wit. Sorry dude...you're just a re-run though. There's one of you on every forum. Eventually you'll lose interest though, long after we've lost interest in you. Wait. Nope. That ship's already sailed. Your sense of humor reminds me a little of the old "war stories" section in the SRT forums. At least those kids were original though. They photochopped their own funny pictures and had some good jokes about sock puppets and things like that. Your material is dated and sort of "Bob Saget era America's Funniest Home Videos" kind of funny. You're trying to entertain the wrong demographic. It's too juvenile for us and too confusing for our preschoolers. Re-register with another screen name and try again. Nobody has to know.

Uhhh...ok...your words of wisdom sooo made me change my ways...your right...as we all know you are...I'm just a two bit hack...WOW...you know...your sooo right...I should change my ways....I just never had someone so enlightened and wise to show me the error of my ways I guess...I'm truely thankful that you came along...thanks for being the forum police Steiner....you've been an inspiration to us all...you nazi...haa haaa

:puke:

let's get back on topic meow...

I like cherry pie...

Steiner

06-06-2007, 11:28 AM

eviltwinkie

06-06-2007, 11:35 AM

It stung a little but, huh? That's OK. Once the denial subsides you'll take a step back and realize the pin-point accuracy of my assessment. Then it's up to you where you take this little situation. I personally think anything short of a total do-over would just be kidding yourself. I'm gonna run now. I gotta get the kids to preschool. xx00x00xx

Yes it DID sting...cause you totally pegged me...I started to cry and stuff...I was all like...WOW man...WOW...

And then you woke up...haa haa haa...newb...

leave the posting of deep thoughts to the big boys mkay?

http://www.catwack.com/pics/125.jpg

cornrowdpantha

06-06-2007, 12:06 PM

The MazdaSpeed 3 is like the Rx8's fat but sorta cute sister. She might get into bed QUICKER but she can't do what the 8 can do. Its like do you want Jennifer Aniston(rx8) or Jennifer Hudson(MS3)

Call me crazy, but I'd take jennifer hudson over Jennifer Aniston... Don't get it twisted, she put on weight for the "dreamgirls" movie, but that's not her typical weight...

Off topic, I know, but still.... :lol2:

eviltwinkie

06-06-2007, 12:14 PM

Call me crazy, but I'd take jennifer hudson over Jennifer Aniston... Don't get it twisted, she put on weight for the "dreamgirls" movie, but that's not her typical weight...

Off topic, I know, but still.... :lol2:

Off topic?? You kidding this whole thread is off topic and should have died a long time ago...so no worries...

But your hudson choice exemplifies the main point...tis all about a matter of taste...personally I'd take both and have myself a party...but thats just me...heh

Ike

06-06-2007, 07:42 PM

I never argued that...you obviously don't know enough about literacy...give it a touch of time... :suspect:

Not enough periods for you Corky?

eviltwinkie

06-07-2007, 12:17 AM

Not enough periods for you Corky?

Never...altho I guess I dont drive an econobox with a turbo slapped on it either...so that might be the problem...you know...somehow... :lol2:

Betelgeuse

06-07-2007, 12:45 AM

Another big swing and a miss. You're absolutely enamored with your smug sense of e-sarcasm and e-wit. Sorry dude...you're just a re-run though. There's one of you on every forum. Eventually you'll lose interest though, long after we've lost interest in you. Wait. Nope. That ship's already sailed. Your sense of humor reminds me a little of the old "war stories" section in the SRT forums. At least those kids were original though. They photochopped their own funny pictures and had some good jokes about sock puppets and things like that. Your material is dated and sort of "Bob Saget era America's Funniest Home Videos" kind of funny. You're trying to entertain the wrong demographic. It's too juvenile for us and too confusing for our preschoolers. Re-register with another screen name and try again. Nobody has to know.

+1

However, I don't think his useless babble even remotely qualifies as humor or sarcasm. I guess hiding behind his childish opinionated gibberish (by calling it sarcasm/humor), is one way to avoid having to make valid points and support them with evidence. He's like a troll in the most basic form. Oh oh I just fed him, now he'll never go away.

eviltwinkie

06-07-2007, 09:17 AM

+1

However, I don't think his useless babble even remotely qualifies as humor or sarcasm. I guess hiding behind his childish opinionated gibberish (by calling it sarcasm/humor), is one way to avoid having to make valid points and support them with evidence. He's like a troll in the most basic form. Oh oh I just fed him, now he'll never go away.

Aww all just because you guys drive econoboxes with turbos slapped on and got your wittle feewings hurt when it gets pointed out...

Why dont you guys start a support group? :lol2:

Betelgeuse

06-07-2007, 01:38 PM

eviltwinkie

06-07-2007, 01:41 PM

^^^^^at least you laugh at yourself, saves us from having to do it.

Anyway what's wrong with an econobox with a turbo slapped on? It's the very reason I bought it. Decent gas mileage, utility and performance for cheap, can't go wrong. BTW you could say the same thing about the WRX, STI and EVO. They are all basically suped-up econoboxes.

Was that another sad attempt at humor?

If you cant laugh at yourself then your a sad sad little man...moving on...

Nothing is wrong with an econobox with a turbo slapped on...hell the honda ricers do it all the time! You go boys!

And of course you can say the same things about the evo and sti...altho at least the WRX was designed with AWD in mind and was not born from a lancer...

EVO = Lancer + Turbo...haa haa...its still a lancer...

Good to know you can at least acknowledge that fact...or was that another sad attempt at seriousness?

SE3PSynergy

06-07-2007, 02:02 PM

Betelgeuse

06-07-2007, 03:05 PM

actually if you want to get real technical the original lancers were based off of rear wheel drive. And what does it matter where it came from? Also for you to say EVO = lancer + turbo is as ignorant as someone saying Integra R= GSR + B18C5. They are completely different cars...

I guess for some people it matters when they have nothing else to fall back on. It's like the civic guys talking about reliability when someone points out their cars aren't the fastest. Or like the VW guys with their 'better' interiors and DSG transmission.

I agree the EVO like the STI, WRX and even the MS3 aren't the same cars they spawned from technically. But I will admit their roots are basically econoboxes.
It seems that saying it makes some people feel better about their own cars.

eviltwinkie

06-07-2007, 03:19 PM

actually if you want to get real technical the original lancers were based off of rear wheel drive. And what does it matter where it came from? Also for you to say EVO = lancer + turbo is as ignorant as someone saying Integra R= GSR + B18C5. They are completely different cars...

Umm...again with your lack of reading comprehension...I said the WRX was based on a AWD platform...never mentioned anything about the Lancer...but since you brought it up...

It was still intended as an econobox...so your point is what?

Along the same lines...a GSR + WD40 = Supedup econobox...sooo...we can conclude what?

People like suped up econoboxes...sweeet!

eviltwinkie

06-07-2007, 03:21 PM

I guess for some people it matters when they have nothing else to fall back on. It's like the civic guys talking about reliability when someone points out their cars aren't the fastest. Or like the VW guys with their 'better' interiors and DSG transmission.

I agree the EVO like the STI, WRX and even the MS3 aren't the same cars they spawned from technically. But I will admit their roots are basically econoboxes.
It seems that saying it makes some people feel better about their own cars.

OR for some people we actually dont try to bitch moan and justify our cars on a forum for a completely different car! What an odd concept...

Econoboxen of the world unite!

Haa haa haa

altspace

06-07-2007, 03:23 PM

This still going?

HolyCross05

06-07-2007, 03:25 PM

OR for some people we actually dont try to bitch moan and justify our cars on a forum for a completely different car! What an odd concept...

General Automotive
Discuss all things automotive here other than the RX-8

SE3PSynergy

06-07-2007, 03:31 PM

Call them econoboxes, but what does that make the rx8 then?

Where in as one very famous and very credible mans description of the rx-8 was this...

"The RX-8, the sports car without any power."

eviltwinkie

06-07-2007, 03:32 PM

This still going?

Ha...yep...the econoboxen gang keeps trying to continue to justify stuff even tho I'm obviously being an absolute pain...funny no? no..? oh....no....

haa haa

eviltwinkie

06-07-2007, 03:32 PM

Betelgeuse

06-07-2007, 05:42 PM

General Automotive
Discuss all things automotive here other than the RX-8

Thanks!

Haha....

eviltwinkie

06-07-2007, 05:45 PM

Thanks!

Haha....

You'll take whatever you can get...nice...haa haa

Betelgeuse

06-07-2007, 05:58 PM

You'll take whatever you can get...nice...haa haa

Just laughing at you buddy, that's all. :lol2:

Betelgeuse

06-07-2007, 06:06 PM

Call them econoboxes, but what does that make the rx8 then?

Where in as one very famous and very credible mans description of the rx-8 was this...

"The RX-8, the sports car without any power."

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/mazda/mazda-rx-8-ar15670.html

The 2009 RX-8s will get 300hp according to that article. If it looks like that artist's rendering, it will be sweet!!! You all will get the power you deserve. Hopefully they'll keep the weight down. I'd take that over an s2k, 350 or g35 any day of the week.

eviltwinkie

06-07-2007, 06:07 PM

Just laughing at you buddy, that's all. :lol2:

Yet I'm not the one reaching for whatever support I can get...heh...sad but still funny how your still trying to make yourself feel better...

eviltwinkie

06-07-2007, 06:09 PM

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/mazda/mazda-rx-8-ar15670.html

The 2009 RX-8s will get 300hp according to that article. If it looks like that artist's rendering, it will be sweet!!! You all will get the power you deserve. Hopefully they'll keep the weight down. I'd take that over an s2k, 350 or g35 any day of the week.

That is a kabura and the article is wrong...

Betelgeuse

06-07-2007, 06:20 PM

Yet I'm not the one reaching for whatever support I can get...heh...sad but still funny how your still trying to make yourself feel better...

Check the walls in your room, are they padded? I ask because you seem to be arguing with an imaginary person. I guess that imaginary person is feeling bad about his car and reaching for support. Maybe you and that person can start another thread. Or you can just take your meds like you're probably supposed to and all the voices in your head will just go away.

eviltwinkie

06-07-2007, 06:21 PM

Check the walls in your room, are they padded? I ask because you seem to be arguing with an imaginary person. I guess that imaginary person is feeling bad about his car and reaching for support. Maybe you and that person can start another thread. Or you can just take your meds like you're probably supposed to and all the voices in your head will just go away.

You know all about meds and rooms it seems...personal experience? haa haa

eviltwinkie

06-07-2007, 06:23 PM

http://www.catwack.com/pics/257.jpg

SE3PSynergy

06-07-2007, 06:45 PM

Maybe you should listen to your own pussy? :)

eviltwinkie

06-07-2007, 06:48 PM

Maybe you should listen to your own pussy? :)

At least I got some...

;)

Betelgeuse

06-07-2007, 07:48 PM

That is a kabura and the article is wrong...

You are wrong.:lol2:

canaryrx8

06-07-2007, 08:18 PM

good Lord this thread sucks, I can't believe some of the responses I'm reading. So fwd is not the end of the world, yes, ok, we get it. Find me the last fwd car to win Lemans, a cart race, or even nascar. Jeebus, this a fwd drive car that is boosted, so what's the f-in shocker it has more power than the 8 and it might be faster. I have an idea, how about we find a faster 1.3 liter stock NA motor with more hp per liter than the 8 has, show me that, please. one of the trolls said, "how is the renesis better than the 2.3 etc.?" Well there's several reasons it's better, it's smaller, probably lighter, revs higher, can produce ridiculous power numbers with only 3 moving parts and 1.3l to work with, without FI, there's also the advantage of it operating more smoothly due to less moving parts which in turn causes less vibration under idle which is nice, if you're into that kind of thing, I won't even get into the exhaust note it produces etc etc. So okay, it's thirsty, ANY car driven hard is thirsty, and it's not like the rotary engine is renowned for fuel efficiency anyway. Yes it burns oil as part of the way its designed, cry me a river that you have to keep an eye on the oil level, people should be doing that anyway regardless of engine to begin with. So the boosted 4 banger has higher HP, well f-in duh, it's almost double the displacement AND it has a turbo (albeit a poorly designed one), of frickin' course it will have more power, it's just simple logic that it will, it's not rocket science here. Bottom line, they're both cool cars, they both do what they were designed to do well, you really can't go wrong with either one, so pick whatever you like and be done with it, simple. I might add, if your car buying decision is based on other people's (especially the interweb...yikes) opinions, then maybe you have bigger issues than what car to buy next. /thread

saturn

06-07-2007, 10:42 PM

If you cant laugh at yourself then your a sad sad little man...moving on...

Nothing is wrong with an econobox with a turbo slapped on...hell the honda ricers do it all the time! You go boys!

And of course you can say the same things about the evo and sti...altho at least the WRX was designed with AWD in mind and was not born from a lancer...

EVO = Lancer + Turbo...haa haa...its still a lancer...

Good to know you can at least acknowledge that fact...or was that another sad attempt at seriousness?

I personally don't care if a car is based off a retarded squirrel with a penchant for eating rocks -- if it makes me happy what difference does it make? There are so many different characteristics a car has that determine its worth to any one person that the idea of considering where the design started as even something worth mentioning is extremely bizarre to me.

Ike

06-08-2007, 01:23 AM

Steiner

06-08-2007, 03:22 AM

...one of the trolls said, "how is the renesis better than the 2.3 etc.?"Well at this point I'll happily wear the "troll" label if it even remotely gets this thread back on topic. Thing is I asked a question, you called me a troll, then you wrote a pretty compelling paragraph illustrating my point.

So okay, it's thirsty, ANY car driven hard is thirsty, and it's not like the rotary engine is renowned for fuel efficiency anyway. Yes it burns oil as part of the way its designed, cry me a river that you have to keep an eye on the oil level, people should be doing that anyway regardless of engine to begin with. So the boosted 4 banger has higher HP, well f-in duh, it's almost double the displacement AND it has a turbo (albeit a poorly designed one), of frickin' course it will have more power, it's just simple logic that it will, it's not rocket science here.

Nobody's calling the renesis a bad motor - inefficient and underpowered maybe - but not outright bad. In my opinion (and apparently yours), it's just not a superior power-plant to the 2.3L in the MS3. I think Mazda's turbo 4 banger is just an excellent motor.

eviltwinkie

06-08-2007, 03:25 AM

I'll allow that...well said...

heh..

Ike

06-08-2007, 03:55 AM

I'll allow that...well said...

heh..

You're a smelly pirate hooker.

eviltwinkie

06-08-2007, 03:57 AM

You're a smelly pirate hooker.

You sir! Outta the gene pool!

haa...nah you can stay too I guess...haa

saturn

06-08-2007, 11:44 AM

You're a smelly pirate hooker.

Why don't you go back to your home on Whore Island?

cgeo77

06-08-2007, 12:54 PM

lol so which car is better? Should i return my RX8 and buy an MS3?

j/k hahaha...

XDEEDUBBX

06-08-2007, 01:10 PM

im going to buy a srt-4 now

9291150

06-08-2007, 01:32 PM

I personally don't care if a car is based off a retarded squirrel with a penchant for eating rocks -- if it makes me happy what difference does it make? There are so many different characteristics a car has that determine its worth to any one person that the idea of considering where the design started as even something worth mentioning is extremely bizarre to me.

Any car with a shared platform, I can see where compromises were made, usually for the worse. It may not mean much to you, but the 8 would be a very different car is it was based off a Mazda 6, or a Miata off a Mazda 3, etc. Conversely, a 350z would be a much better car if it was designed from the ground up.

saturn

06-08-2007, 08:14 PM

Any car with a shared platform, I can see where compromises were made, usually for the worse. It may not mean much to you, but the 8 would be a very different car is it was based off a Mazda 6, or a Miata off a Mazda 3, etc. Conversely, a 350z would be a much better car if it was designed from the ground up.

I agree, but how a car is designed has at best an indirect relationship to any problem you may have with a car. It's just easier to talk about the actual issues than some arbitrary cause.

cgeo77

06-08-2007, 11:26 PM

i'm with the "let the MS3 lovers enjoy their ride and i'll enjoy my RX8" view. Whether one is faster than the other but less fun to drive or vice versa is not what i get caught up in. I like the experience a RWD sporty car gives me and the high revving rotary is what i like....other guys would rather sacrifice the fun to have the power. Whatever gets you going. I wish i was rich enough to buy more cars and drive everything but i'm not so i prioritize what i like and the RX8 fit the bill.

Rhawb

06-09-2007, 12:16 AM

Again, I own a Speed 3, which I purchased after the lease on my 8 came up. Here's the best insight I can provide:

There's no need to be so defensive about the 8 not being the fastest car on the road. It's a fantastic car and it fits the driver like a glove. Yes, it is far from the fastest thing out there, but you're simply not driving it right if the thing doesn't plaster a smile all over your face every time you leave the house, and that's what really matters with cars like this.

The MS3 is a great car on its own merits. The thing goes like hell, and it handles so well you'll forget it's an FWD car. Problem is, it lacks refinement and the greenhouse feels clunky and awkward around the driver due to the car being originally built for practicality, economy and comfort rather than performance.

So, basically, the 3's faster, but the 8's a better drive. The end.

Jethro Tull

06-11-2007, 11:13 AM

...but you're simply not driving it right if the thing doesn't plaster a smile all over your face every time you leave the house, and that's what really matters with cars like this.

Extremely well-said.

YaXMaNGTO

06-11-2007, 08:19 PM

I honestly secretly enjoy the RX8 vs "fill in the blank", and the MS3 threads are the most entertaining. The fact that you guys incessantly fret about how the RX8 compares to other cars is one of the tenets of RX8club's culture.

SE3PSynergy

06-11-2007, 08:33 PM

hahaha yeah it is funny, almost as funny as driving around in a 3700 pound car. I work for GM btw.

Steiner

06-11-2007, 09:11 PM

VikingDJ

06-11-2007, 10:33 PM

hahaha yeah it is funny, almost as funny as driving around in a 3700 pound car. I work for GM btw.

But not nearly as funny as watching a 3000lb rotary car try and race the 3700lb car at a dragstrip or on the street. :lol2: :rofl: :uhh: :yelrotflm

eviltwinkie

06-12-2007, 02:08 AM

But not nearly as funny as watching a 3000lb rotary car try and race the 3700lb car at a dragstrip or on the street. :lol2: :rofl: :uhh: :yelrotflm

Which is stupid but obviously important to turblown-econoboxen...

SmokeyTheBalrog

06-12-2007, 03:07 AM

Ike

06-12-2007, 03:30 AM

Which is stupid but obviously important to turblown-econoboxen...

Whooping your ass around a twisty track is pretty important as well. Being able to do so with 330whp from basic boltons, 4 wicker chairs for the patio in the back seat, and a new lawn mower to keep the yard nice and pretty iin the trunk, and getting better gas mileage is just gravy. Have I mentioned how well my car handles in the snow?

_red rocket_

06-12-2007, 12:26 PM

Whooping your ass around a twisty track is pretty important as well. Being able to do so with 330whp from basic boltons, 4 wicker chairs for the patio in the back seat, and a new lawn mower to keep the yard nice and pretty iin the trunk, and getting better gas mileage is just gravy. Have I mentioned how well my car handles in the snow?

:rollingla :yesnod: classic!

But not 1/2 as funny as these misguided individuals you have quoted:

Originally Posted by dbb
Sure, the Evo is quick. But it isn't a drivers car. It's a point and shoot low-rent high-price go-kart. No soul, no driver feedback

Originally Posted by RX8_GT
Seems to me that the engines in the STI/Evo are basically max'ed out

Originally Posted by trusterotary307
i drove a new 06 speed 3 and its not half as fast as an 8.they suck in my opinion very uncomfortable and slow.

Now, that's entertainment!

eviltwinkie

06-12-2007, 12:33 PM

Michael

06-12-2007, 12:51 PM

Steiner

06-12-2007, 12:52 PM

The longer I own my Evo and the more I've tuned the engine and the suspension, the less apt I am to care about those who have no idea what I'm driving and what it can do. It's their loss.

eviltwinkie

06-12-2007, 12:54 PM

At TWS this weekend there was a modded MS3 running in my group. I'd say he'd have been able to keep up if I hadn't just thrown on the RPF-1's, new tires, and HP+'s.

I was very impressed, it's got a lot more going for it than most people give it credit for.

Then again, he was passing C4S's on the back straight, so you know that he's far from stock.

The MS3 is the new Neon SRT-4, unfortunately.

If its a red one I know who you are talking about, and YEAH homie is NOT stock at all. Good guy, went out on a hill country drive with thier group and a handful of MS6's and my buddy's STI...fun was had by all...

If your goin to da ranch "Cresson" I'll see you there, you can meet up with the other local RX track whore...ha

eviltwinkie

06-12-2007, 12:59 PM

The longer I own my Evo and the more I've tuned the engine and the suspension, the less apt I am to care about those who have no idea what I'm driving and what it can do. It's their loss.

Funny I feel the same way...wierd no?

Michael

06-12-2007, 02:26 PM

Pololo_RX8

06-12-2007, 05:48 PM

If its a red one I know who you are talking about, and YEAH homie is NOT stock at all. Good guy, went out on a hill country drive with thier group and a handful of MS6's and my buddy's STI...fun was had by all...

If your goin to da ranch "Cresson" I'll see you there, you can meet up with the other local RX track whore...ha

Ok, This thread has gone nowhere... and I honestly don't think you know what you are talking about. The "red" car as you say you "tested" has NEVER gone to a track event!!! I know the owner and I have driven this car as well. I know where the car is and what is being done to it.

The car that went to the event is a silver and IT'S STOCK!!!! even the wheels are stock... so please make sure you get your facts right before you write them here.

I own the MS3 now (I MISS my RX8 no doubt) and I was one of the guys that initiated the MS3 drive near Austin. However this specific day when you "tested" the car I wasn't able to attend otherwise I am sure the only thing you would have been able to see would have been my bumper...

This is just crazy... Why can't we accept that Mazda made a "better" car altogether? As I originally said, looks, engine sound and handling NOTHING compares to the RX8... For the rest... the MS3 is a winner.

Carlos

eviltwinkie

06-12-2007, 06:37 PM

Ok, This thread has gone nowhere... and I honestly don't think you know what you are talking about. The "red" car as you say you "tested" has NEVER gone to a track event!!! I know the owner and I have driven this car as well. I know where the car is and what is being done to it.

The car that went to the event is a silver and IT'S STOCK!!!! even the wheels are stock... so please make sure you get your facts right before you write them here.

I own the MS3 now (I MISS my RX8 no doubt) and I was one of the guys that initiated the MS3 drive near Austin. However this specific day when you "tested" the car I wasn't able to attend otherwise I am sure the only thing you would have been able to see would have been my bumper...

This is just crazy... Why can't we accept that Mazda made a "better" car altogether? As I originally said, looks, engine sound and handling NOTHING compares to the RX8... For the rest... the MS3 is a winner.

Carlos

Umm no...YOU have it wrong...the one that was tested was not the one I claimed was out there (TDE @ TWS 4-21-07)...it was a completely different red MS3 and it was not at the recent PCA event but the prior TDE one...I have the sheet for that day which can prove it as well as pics of his car AND video from the track as he was in my run group...outside of a lack of reading comprehension you have what??

So lets try not to put things in my mouth...mkay...if you would stop being a fanboy long enough and slowly read the post you would have noticed THAT instead of frothing at the mouth and aiming to troll...

Get your own facts straight before calling someone out because all it does is make you look like an ass trying to pick a fight...

Betelgeuse

06-12-2007, 10:36 PM

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 12:08 AM

Now you see what you did? You posted some facts and angered the local troll.

Now you see what you did? You lacked enough intelligence to read and comprehend at the same time...not that it surprises me...you wear a bib for the drool leaking outta your mouth too?

VikingDJ

06-13-2007, 07:45 AM

Which is stupid but obviously important to turblown-econoboxen...

Umm. That joke was inreference to the GTO, which is the 3700lb car that was referred to. You swung and missed on that one buddy. Try again!! :lol2: :lol2: :rolleyes:

VikingDJ

06-13-2007, 07:49 AM

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 09:09 AM

Umm. That joke was inreference to the GTO, which is the 3700lb car that was referred to. You swung and missed on that one buddy. Try again!! :lol2: :lol2: :rolleyes:

Umm no...see going in a straight line fast is ALSO important to the turblown-econoboxen if you havent noticed brainiac...Next time show up to the baseball game ok?

BTW the GTO is pathetic when it comes to doing ANYTHING other than going in a straight line. Looks kinda like a buick...but with alot less creativity...

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 09:12 AM

Alright. This thread is now the EVO vs RX8. Which is better? :lol2:

Simple...teh crossfire...

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 09:26 AM

This is just crazy... Why can't we accept that Mazda made a "better" car altogether? As I originally said, looks, engine sound and handling NOTHING compares to the RX8... For the rest... the MS3 is a winner.

Carlos

BTW, market dynamics created the MS3...its cheaper to make and cater to the fast and furious market on a commonly shared platform...its tremendously less expensive due to shared components in the family line...its more expensive and would have cannibalized sales of the MS3 if they released anything else...

The value proposition for bringing a turblown econobox to the market to compete in the segment is why it exists. Simply going fast in a straight does not make something better in the realm of performance. Had Mazda released a turblown rotary it would have cost them a significant amount of money just bringing it to market due to the single purpose components. Add FI to an RX and it goes fast in a straight line too...thankfully most people dont care JUST about that...except for people in mustangs...and GTO's and stuff...

saturn

06-13-2007, 11:15 AM

I have never seen a single user post so many threads in such short succession with no useful information of any kind.

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 11:45 AM

HORRIBLE GRAMUR FIXED

FROM:
I have never seen a single user post so many threads in such short succession with no useful information of any kind.

TO:
I have never seen a single user post so many times in a thread in such short succession with no useful information of any kind.

You ever seen the Nalin thread or the toe-ghey thread? Heh...same stuff here...

Michael

06-13-2007, 11:45 AM

Ok, This thread has gone nowhere... and I honestly don't think you know what you are talking about. The "red" car as you say you "tested" has NEVER gone to a track event!!! I know the owner and I have driven this car as well. I know where the car is and what is being done to it.

The car that went to the event is a silver and IT'S STOCK!!!! even the wheels are stock... so please make sure you get your facts right before you write them here.

I own the MS3 now (I MISS my RX8 no doubt) and I was one of the guys that initiated the MS3 drive near Austin. However this specific day when you "tested" the car I wasn't able to attend otherwise I am sure the only thing you would have been able to see would have been my bumper...

This is just crazy... Why can't we accept that Mazda made a "better" car altogether? As I originally said, looks, engine sound and handling NOTHING compares to the RX8... For the rest... the MS3 is a winner.

Carlos

Please read the post you're referring to. I said he had stock wheels and was on street tires, and that he couldn't keep up, except for on the straights. I was impressed with his driving ability, I gave credit where credit was due. I was helping you out but now you've pissed me off. Get the fuck out unless you have something to contribute.

It was a silver MS3. Looked stock except for the exhaust. I think he was on OEM tires as well, which adds to how impressive it is.

But then again, the driver matters most.

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 11:58 AM

Please read the post you're referring to. I said he had stock wheels and was on street tires, and that he couldn't keep up, except for on the straights. I was impressed with his driving ability, I gave credit where credit was due. I was helping you out but now you've pissed me off. Get the fuck out unless you have something to contribute.

Dude its because the fanboi's dont bother to READ things first...hell I even asked a question and said "IF IT WAS RED" because I actually bothered to read the post and thought perhaps you met the same guy. But apparently some people forgot thier hukt on foniks lessons and decided to troll.

I for one am glad he didnt go on the hill country ride that day, those other guys are pretty cool and we had a good time. Had mister jackass went I'm sure it would have ended badly.

I for one was impressed with how well the MS3 did that day when I was at TWS, I totally respect that guy. I'm sure you came away with the same mentality. But I also know that its not the tool, but the driver. Hell even on a kart track with equal karts, the instructors and better drivers still win. Driver makes the car, not the other way around.

Steiner

06-13-2007, 12:46 PM

vote ban: eviltwinkie?

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 12:52 PM

vote ban: eviltwinkie?

Awww...why? Cause you lack the ability to constructively debate without getting your wito fewings hurt or cause your a whiney little emo kid...

Open your legs up a little bit...might help get some of that sand out of your vagina...

Pololo_RX8

06-13-2007, 01:16 PM

Indeed what Michael said was "It was a silver MS3. Looked stock except for the exhaust" and this is what I was referring to.

Mr Michael: My comment was not directed at you.

Mr Eviltwinkie stated that he "knew the car" that was there and it was RED, and he was referring to last weekend!!! Unless last weekend was in April" I believe the only car that was at TWS was a silver MS3. I know that car as well and I know it's stock!!

Bottom line is that I have NEVER seen anybody ARGUING with everybody on the forum posting SO MANY USELESS threads and making him look MORE AND MORE like an ASS...

I am glad I didn't go to the MS3 get together and for once, since I am one of the organizers, and you will NOT be invited back, as your attitude sucks and your level of comprehension obviously lacks any common sense.

Why can't we agree that the RX8 is a DRIVERS car(looks and handling are hard to top!!) and the MS3 is GOOD car(has everything else: power, utility, consumption and reliability)

The MS3 will NEVER be an RX8 and they have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Carlos

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 01:31 PM

Sweet...more fodder from sir-back pedal...

Indeed what Michael said was "It was a silver MS3. Looked stock except for the exhaust" and this is what I was referring to.

Mr Michael: My comment was not directed at you.

OHHH REALLY??? Then why mention it if I was asking him a question and clearly you could see I never said it was there? Nice attempt to back pedal...

So from this post...

Meh...

Yeah they are fast...and after driving one that had a FMIC and EMU work done to boost power...I came away thinking that it felt..."peppy"...too heavy and I could feel it...

The only one that I could say was decent was at TWS...a heavily modded red one...

Still doesnt do it for me...

AND this one...

If its a red one I know who you are talking about, and YEAH homie is NOT stock at all. Good guy, went out on a hill country drive with thier group and a handful of MS6's and my buddy's STI...fun was had by all...

If your goin to da ranch "Cresson" I'll see you there, you can meet up with the other local RX track whore...ha

YOU managed to miss the "IF ITS A RED ONE" you know...as in asking a question...since in his original post that I read...he stated...

At TWS this weekend there was a modded MS3 running in my group. I'd say he'd have been able to keep up if I hadn't just thrown on the RPF-1's, new tires, and HP+'s.

I was very impressed, it's got a lot more going for it than most people give it credit for.

Then again, he was passing C4S's on the back straight, so you know that he's far from stock. And by passing, I mean buttraping.

The MS3 is the new Neon SRT-4, unfortunately.

Which lacked color information and since I WAS NOT there I was curious if it was the same one...

HOWEVER you somehow got to this...probably because you lack reading comprehension and intelligence...

Mr Eviltwinkie stated that he "knew the car" that was there and it was RED, and he was referring to last weekend!!! Unless last weekend was in April" I believe the only car that was at TWS was a silver MS3. I know that car as well and I know it's stock!!

Yea...your lame excuses dont work here buddy especially with people who know how to read properly...

Bottom line is that I have NEVER seen anybody ARGUING with everybody on the forum posting SO MANY USELESS threads and making him look MORE AND MORE like an ASS...

Thats mainly because I dont create "THREADS" I "POST"...and usually only constructive things when its a useful thread...unlike this one which is filled with the fanboi gang acting like jackasses...

I am glad I didn't go to the MS3 get together and for once, since I am one of the organizers, and you will NOT be invited back, as your attitude sucks and your level of comprehension obviously lacks any common sense.

Umm...dude hate to break it to you but we've been doing drives for a hell of a lot longer then you have or probably will...

Altho you made me cry a little bit cause I wasnt invited to your party haa haa haa...

Leave the playground threats at your preschool...but stay in school as you need the literacy skills...

Why can't we agree that the RX8 is a DRIVERS car(looks and handling are hard to top!!) and the MS3 is GOOD car(has everything else: power, utility, consumption and reliability)

The MS3 will NEVER be an RX8 and they have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Carlos

That was never disagreed with...why you feel that you had to troll is beyond me...at this point just stfu go back to your other forums and stop making yourself look stupid...

By the way...your not invited to my birthday party either! OOOOOOO BUUURRRRNNNNN!!!! HAA HAA HAA

_red rocket_

06-13-2007, 03:14 PM

You two should get married. You'd make a great couple.

BTW, I don't drive a MS3 or RX8. I drive a Big Wheel and will smoke out all of you :ylsuper:

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 03:27 PM

You two should get married. You'd make a great couple.

Um no, you see the date would end when I noticed he was having trouble reading the menu and started making wild unfounded accusations for no reason...

BTW, I don't drive a MS3 or RX8. I drive a Big Wheel and will smoke out all of you :ylsuper:

I cool with anyone trying to "smoke me out"...just duno how we can hotbox your big wheel...

_red rocket_

06-13-2007, 03:28 PM

:lol2: :lol2:

Michael

06-13-2007, 03:40 PM

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 03:48 PM

I think I'll be making a thread in Suggestions that would propose a mechanism to disallow people from signing up JUST to troll a thread. It's a waste of bandwidth.

We should institute a fishbowl period. If you don't do something constructive in your first 5 posts your account gets reviewed, and consequently deleted if you suck at life.

I think the issue with doing that is the additional overhead required to review and delete accounts...but it sure would be nice...

Eviltwinkie, you're a bit harder on the Evo than you need to be. I've liked my experiences driving them. I wouldn't go as far as to say they're God's gift to the car community, but they're certainly worthy of being considered in the same strata as an RX-8. I know that people like [insert resident troll here] make that hard to see, but by stooping/stopping to argue about it he's putting the RX-8 on par.

I dont think I've really said anything thats not technically true...I just put a little spin on it for the fanbois who are trollin...technically the STI/EVO are pretty fun to drive...I would however have to draw the line between the AWD boxen and the FWD ones...the similarities stop at a boosted engine...no FWD-Turblown-Econoboxen could ever dream of coming close to an STI or EVO.

In addition, I've got to say that this argument isn't going to fulfill your mental aerobics for the day by a LONG shot. Your brain's going to get fat.

Agreed, however it does give me an opportunity to post more cat pics and try to get this lame thread closed...heh

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 03:49 PM

http://www.catwack.com/pics/274.jpg

SE3PSynergy

06-13-2007, 03:52 PM

I think I'll be making a thread in Suggestions that would propose a mechanism to disallow people from signing up JUST to troll a thread. It's a waste of bandwidth.

We should institute a fishbowl period. If you don't do something constructive in your first 5 posts your account gets reviewed, and consequently deleted if you suck at life.

Eviltwinkie, you're a bit harder on the Evo than you need to be. I've liked my experiences driving them. I wouldn't go as far as to say they're God's gift to the car community, but they're certainly worthy of being considered in the same strata as an RX-8. I know that people like [insert resident troll here] make that hard to see, but by stooping/stopping to argue about it he's putting the RX-8 on par.

In addition, I've got to say that this argument isn't going to fulfill your mental aerobics for the day by a LONG shot. Your brain's going to get fat.

However, the RX-8 is not even remotely on par with the Evo. If you can't come to terms with that I don't know what to tell you (this isn't directed specifically at you Michael just in general). My best friend drives an evo that with barely any modifications dyno'd 330whp on monday, I drive the car a lot and it's just a far better performance machine than the rx-8. Before anyone starts saying oh bla bla bla but you're comparing a tuned evo vs. your mildly tuned rx-8 you should know we bought our cars within 2 weeks of each other. We've both been letting each other drive our cars since day 1 stock for stock... and we both agree the evo is the better all around performer but the rx8 is the better daily you can consistantly have fun with despite it's gas mileage...

can't we just let it go?

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 03:59 PM

SE3PSynergy

06-13-2007, 04:02 PM

Find me an occurrence where a rx-8 beats an evo on a track? K thanks. I'll be waiting for a while. :) better just start posting cat pictures and deffer away from this one.

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 04:05 PM

Find me an occurrence where a rx-8 beats an evo on a track? K thanks. I'll be waiting for a while. :) better just start posting cat pictures and deffer away from this one.

Find me an occurance when your subjective opinion mattered...kthx I'll be waiting a while...better start ranting and becoming abusive mr. anger management problem...

Michael

06-13-2007, 04:07 PM

However, the RX-8 is not even remotely on par with the Evo. If you can't come to terms with that I don't know what to tell you (this isn't directed specifically at you Michael just in general). My best friend drives an evo that with barely any modifications dyno'd 330whp on monday, I drive the car a lot and it's just a far better performance machine than the rx-8. Before anyone starts saying oh bla bla bla but you're comparing a tuned evo vs. your mildly tuned rx-8 you should know we bought our cars within 2 weeks of each other. We've both been letting each other drive our cars since day 1 stock for stock... and we both agree the evo is the better all around performer but the rx8 is the better daily you can consistantly have fun with despite it's gas mileage...

can't we just let it go?

That wasn't my experience at all. I know that the Evo sacrificed a lot of drivability through mods (345 awhp, clutch was the worst) but still. I've never had the pleasure (no sarcasm) of driving the Evo at a road course like TWS, but I have done a run or two as a second driver in an autocross and the RX-8 literally ripped its ample balls off.

There are several evo's (mostly VIII's, not sure if the generation matters) that run at TWS w/ the Porsche Club and you can't comprehend how frustrating it is to let them pass on the long straight, catch them and pass them in turn 7, only to have them pass on the back straight again. It's the case in every run group, which eliminates the "driver" argument.

I'll put it this way. For a car with AWD, the balance that the car possesses, and the power it comes with from the factory, it should be running circles around me, at least at TWS. Hopefully the Evo X will be able to do that. Mind you, I've also got an AWD platform that I run at the same track, and it's not hindered?

I don't think the RX-8 is a good daily. It's the epitome of a terrible daily. Uncomfortable, terrible AC, rattles, bad gas mileage, cup WARMER, tight visibility, stands out to police, etc. I'm ONLY basing my Evo v.s. 8 observations on PERSONAL TRACK experience, in several venues. I'd actually say that the Evo is probably the better daily, despite the interior. Wingless it hardly stands out (much like a Legacy GT) in the right color.

Question: have you ever actually driven your car in competitive events? I'm not talking about a drag strip. It seems that you should be driving an Evo, by your logic.

SE3PSynergy

06-13-2007, 04:09 PM

haha just as always, you can't provide any evidence, avoid the real question and go on insulting people to try and make up for it. Great work as always :)

^ this was to twinkie.

No, I love rear wheel drive too much and the fact that my car never breaks despite my pounding on it and autocrossing it. So I'm just fine with the RX-8. My mission wasn't to buy the absolute fastest car available to me, I wanted something I could enjoy inside and out. That's why I have the RX-8.

Michael

06-13-2007, 04:10 PM

Find me an occurrence where a rx-8 beats an evo on a track? K thanks. I'll be waiting for a while. :) better just start posting cat pictures and deffer away from this one.

At autocrosses everywhere, every weekend, all across the country.

It's pretty even on even a track like TWS, look at the layout and it's not a tight course at all.

Michael

06-13-2007, 04:11 PM

haha just as always, you can't provide any evidence, avoid the real question and go on insulting people to try and make up for it. Great work as always :)

I believe I did...

But how about that Mazda 3?

saturn

06-13-2007, 04:13 PM

I don't think the RX-8 is a good daily. It's the epitome of a terrible daily. Uncomfortable, terrible AC, rattles, bad gas mileage, cup WARMER, tight visibility, stands out to police, etc. I'm ONLY basing my Evo v.s. 8 observations on PERSONAL TRACK experience, in several venues. I'd actually say that the Evo is probably the better daily, despite the interior. Wingless it hardly stands out (much like a Legacy GT) in the right color.

Interesting points. Though, one way the RX-8 is better as a DD than the Evo is in the suspension. It's a alot smoother ride in the 8.

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 04:16 PM

At autocrosses everywhere, every weekend, all across the country.

It's pretty even on even a track like TWS, look at the layout and it's not a tight course at all.

Which is why I'm looking forward to Cresson...much friendlier than TWS...I also became fustrated having to let a high HP car to fly by on the straight only to pass em later on or get slowed down in traffic...

EDIT: As seen on my z06 clip from TWS...where I FINALLY let him pass thinking that perhaps he was faster only to realize he was not, and then take it back...in that case I'm going to say the driver needed to be better as I'm sure a z06 should have been faster...I would hope...but that long straight...jeeeebus christ that thing can accelerate...

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 04:18 PM

Interesting points. Though, one way the RX-8 is better as a DD than the Evo is in the suspension. It's a alot smoother ride in the 8.

True...the STI is pretty stiff and bouncy as well...bud is having problems w/ the camera picking up all the vibration...

Michael

06-13-2007, 04:24 PM

Interesting points. Though, one way the RX-8 is better as a DD than the Evo is in the suspension. It's a alot smoother ride in the 8.

Then you'll also be interested to hear that after putting 18x9.5 Enkei RPF1's wrapped in 275/35/18 KDW's, that the ride is UNGODLY smooth. I'm used to the suspension in a 745Li and the ride is night and day, stock wheels v.s. wider wheels. Granted, I'll lose some of that when I properly decamber them (.6* in the front and 1.2* in the back), I couldn't believe the difference they made, as I was expecting no change.

I didn't really have any strong feelings about the suspension in the Evo, in the autocross the only real difference was AWD and shorter time in 2nd gear.

I believe that credit should be given where credit is due, so I give the Evo credit for being a hell of a car. But I want someone like Ike or another Evo owner to tell me why it can't keep up, as it's faster on paper, and in a straight line.

I bought my RX-8 because I couldn't deal with a 2 seater, because I couldn't deal with the looks of an Evo or STi, and because it was $11,000 cheaper than an Evo or STi. Had I known how beautifully you can get an 04 Cobra to handle on a road course, I might have gone for a different FR to play in. It's about the equivalent of a C5 Z06 after some choice suspension mods.

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 04:33 PM

Then you'll also be interested to hear that after putting 18x9.5 Enkei RPF1's wrapped in 275/35/18 KDW's, that the ride is UNGODLY smooth. I'm used to the suspension in a 745Li and the ride is night and day, stock wheels v.s. wider wheels. Granted, I'll lose some of that when I properly decamber them (.6* in the front and 1.2* in the back), I couldn't believe the difference they made, as I was expecting no change.

I didn't really have any strong feelings about the suspension in the Evo, in the autocross the only real difference was AWD and shorter time in 2nd gear.

I believe that credit should be given where credit is due, so I give the Evo credit for being a hell of a car. But I want someone like Ike or another Evo owner to tell me why it can't keep up, as it's faster on paper, and in a straight line.

I bought my RX-8 because I couldn't deal with a 2 seater, because I couldn't deal with the looks of an Evo or STi, and because it was $11,000 cheaper than an Evo or STi. Had I known how beautifully you can get an 04 Cobra to handle on a road course, I might have gone for a different FR to play in. It's about the equivalent of a C5 Z06 after some choice suspension mods.

The only comment I have on that is going to be...you have to drive an AWD car differently...also you have to become comfortable with maintaining boost...it takes a while before the dynamics of working with your car sync up with your brain while the RX is MUCH easier to get fast in quickly...the others are simply more difficult to learn to utilize fully...that said once you do get it down, it pays off tremendously...I know that in the higher run groups the field starts to level out...

Speaking of cobras w/ IRS...the other vid clip I had was a cobra that got in my way as I was trying to chase down a spec miata...bastard refused to give me the pass because it was the final lap...so I pitched a campfire inside his trunk and got him to break the rear loose a few times...clip showed that exit speed from a corner is more important than raw power...even at WOT he bearly started pulling on the straight...

Michael

06-13-2007, 04:47 PM

Speaking of cobras w/ IRS...the other vid clip I had was a cobra that got in my way as I was trying to chase down a spec miata...bastard refused to give me the pass because it was the final lap...so I pitched a campfire inside his trunk and got him to break the rear loose a few times...clip showed that exit speed from a corner is more important than raw power...even at WOT he bearly started pulling on the straight...

That was my biggest problem trying to get people to notice me, I'd tailgate too much, thinking it would help expedite the process, and on a turn like corner 6, you fuck up your line and lose all exit speed and then they won't wave you by.

Now I just stick around in their mirror, a couple carlengths back, after the initial "i'm faster than you and you should have waved me by already gtfo of here tailgate"

The Vobra (hehe) that always impresses me is the Red '04 with black powdercoated wheels. He tosses that thing around nicely.

eviltwinkie

06-13-2007, 05:01 PM

That was my biggest problem trying to get people to notice me, I'd tailgate too much, thinking it would help expedite the process, and on a turn like corner 6, you fuck up your line and lose all exit speed and then they won't wave you by.

Now I just stick around in their mirror, a couple carlengths back, after the initial "i'm faster than you and you should have waved me by already gtfo of here tailgate"

The Vobra (hehe) that always impresses me is the Red '04 with black powdercoated wheels. He tosses that thing around nicely.

Haa...yeah I started with the tailgating thing but like you found that it screwed up my line...I eventually just did the tailgate+"WTF upward hand motion" routine...until I got my point across...

Havent had the pleasure of running into that Red one yet...but I'll keep my eyes peeled...I'm trying to convince my friend to take his 03, but his clutch is kinda messed up a bit...a few mods put him past 500whp and now hes bitchin about having to replace the clutch haa haa...