AutoWeek Drivers Log (05/14/07)
2007 Mazda RX-8 (6M)
As Tested Price: $34,095
Fuel Economy: (EPA/AW): 20/15.8

MORRISON: I have a love/hate relationship with the Mazda RX-8. I love the relative practicality, the flat-out made handling, the steering feel, the suspension. But the Renesis engine delivers no torque and drinks gasoline like an F-22 fighter on full afterburner. And for what? A whole 232 hp? Cue the angry letters from rotary-engine nuts, but we've spent a lot of time with this car, and it doesn't intrigue me as it once did. That's a shame, because this Mazda was conceived with much more than raw power in mind, but the chassis is so good that it makes you dream of just that.

I think we all feel it. That little extra oomph that would make it perfect.

Queue up the delusional people that are trying to convince themselves that the RX-8 wouldn't be more fun with more power.

Queue up the delusional people that are trying to convince themselves that the RX-8 wouldn't be more fun with more power.
Not me!

I have several potential solutions to the much lamented lack 'o power problem:

One solution is to just dial alot of tow-out into the rear suspension making it undriveably evil. It will just spin out every where and we'll be content to drive with the mo-ped power supplied by mazda. You can also be justified in screaming "tokyo drift!" at confused bystanders who are wondering how you spun your car in the WalMart parking lot.

Better yet, lets all buy expensive exhausts and intakes to make the car noisy so we can be deluded by an auditory sensation of speed.... Oh wait...

Finally, you can always yell out the window to the SRT-4 passing you "I will pwn you in da twistizzes!" Just try not to get distracted and have a "togue disaster." I guess thats the price of being super mega awesome.

Everyone smart enough would have had a chance to test drive their car before buying it. If it was too slow, then why the hell did they buy it?

Everyone smart enough would have had a chance to test drive their car before buying it. If it was too slow, then why the hell did they buy it?

Exactly. As far as I'm concerned (not being a pre-pubescent bench racer,) the car is quite fast, and I have no desire to make it any faster. It may drink fuel like an F-22, but goddamit if it doesn't DRIVE like one. Small wonder the car comes out on top in every comparison test even after 5 years. The testers, who drive dozens of cars in a year, including the very latest, know it won't get any better at this price point for a long time to come. You cannot beat this car in terms of chassis dynamics, comfort, reliability, and practicality, and if you want something else for the sake of a faster quarter mile time, you will sacrifice more than you're willing to in nearly every other area.

That's a choice most of us owners know we're not going to make.

Case closed.

You're trying way to hard and allthatshitbyyou.txt is lacking anything funny.


I have several potential solutions to the much lamented lack 'o power problem:

One solution is to just dial alot of tow-out into the rear suspension making it undriveably evil. It will just spin out every where and we'll be content to drive with the mo-ped power supplied by mazda. You can also be justified in screaming "tokyo drift!" at confused bystanders who are wondering how you spun your car in the WalMart parking lot.

Better yet, lets all buy expensive exhausts and intakes to make the car noisy so we can be deluded by an auditory sensation of speed.... Oh wait...

Finally, you can always yell out the window to the SRT-4 passing you "I will pwn you in da twistizzes!" Just try not to get distracted and have a "togue disaster." I guess thats the price of being super mega awesome.

Exactly. As far as I'm concerned (not being a pre-pubescent bench racer,) the car is quite fast, and I have no desire to make it any faster. It may drink fuel like an F-22, but goddamit if it doesn't DRIVE like one. Small wonder the car comes out on top in every comparison test even after 5 years. The testers, who drive dozens of cars in a year, including the very latest, know it won't get any better at this price point for a long time to come. You cannot beat this car in terms of chassis dynamics, comfort, reliability, and practicality, and if you want something else for the sake of a faster quarter mile time, you will sacrifice more than you're willing to in nearly every other area.

That's a choice most of us owners know we're not going to make.

Case closed.


For the price point that they are selling at now, around or below invoice, you can't complain too much about the power as its clocking in much cheaper than all the competition. The window sticker price of a shinka though makes it open to comparison with alot of really potent competition like evo's and sti's. Still a great car, but with some other really fast 4 door options, its a tougher sell for alot of people.

Also, TimzSI, thank you for your constructive criticism. You're a swell guy.

i wrote them an e-mail requesting they save their time writing about lack of power for the next year and our time reading about lack of power for the next year and get a supercharger...

Everyone smart enough would have had a chance to test drive their car before buying it. If it was too slow, then why the hell did they buy it?

^ what he said.

1.3L

There isn't really any car that really has it all. I think in the US, we have such a big drag racing heritage that our consumer base is going to be more critical of a car that isn't necessarily a rocket ship in a straight line, than a car that doesn't handle well. Its sort of a cultrual thing. I bet in europe where gas is much more expensive and small low power nible cars are much more en vogue, the general population is very sensitive to cars that don't handle well.

Also, its alot easier to peg a car on the street in a straight line and get pushed back in your seat than it is to find some corners you can safely drive at or approaching the limit. For alot of people thats a good justification for a car with alot of power. Its just easier for them to get a buzz out of blasting from stop light to stop light than it is to enjoy sliding a well balanced car around. Obviously, I bought the 8 so I don't think that way, and I'm sure most people on this board don't either. That said, I can apreciate why someone might want to go the other way. A car like an srt-4 or MS3 is great for some quick and easy acceleration thrills, and there's nothing wrong with that. Its just a difference in values between consumers.

I think there's too many young pups out there that don't remember the difference in driving cars when they were the real deal. Let's compare an MG-B to a Torqueflite Dodge Polara circa 1964. That Dodge was fast as hell off the line as long as you went straight it was cool...but give me some twistys and i'll take the 100 HP MG any day...Face it young dudes , there's really no place to go 0-60 fast any more so who cares...Take your 8 out on a mountain road and get exhilerated not accelerated. The speed is OVERRATED. You can go 45 and have a great time without putting anyone in danger. What's with all this torque stuff. I just had an A4 , a TT coupe...This RX8 handles better and is way more fun to drive. Nobody ever looked twice at the A4...The TT attracted attention but even that didn't handle like the 8. When you go 0 to 60 in this car it just seems fast enough and much more fun. I never have trouble getting onto a road as I did with those damn turbo engines and that lag time that left me sitting in the middle of the road with an 18 wheeler coming . If you wanna get torque , drive a rail dragster against Don Garlits. I'd rather be driving against Sterling Moss . Want torque...get a 'Vette...you can drive from stoplight to stoplight really quick...DUH ! You can get an Aston Martin DB7 for a meager $350,000...that has torque...I'm not sure where to drive it or where in the whole US of A that I would park it. Maybe next to some dweeby old lady in a Taurus that can DING the door for $1000.....Then again, you could drive a NASCAR Chevy around in a circle for 500 miles at 200 mph...now there's some fun. 4 hours of " This place looks the same as the place I was two miles back".....8 miles /gallon...new tires every 125 miles...Wow ! That's what I want...NOT ! Why do RX 8 owners complain...Is it because they never really DROVE a real car before ? You can DRIVE at 40 mph and have a great time.

Queue up the delusional people that are trying to convince themselves that the RX-8 wouldn't be more fun with more power.

I agree with you. What we need is less power, then the car would be perfect.

toast

Queue up the delusional people that are trying to convince themselves that the RX-8 wouldn't be more fun with more power.

Que up ike to start attacking people before they've even posted.

Every car in this price range is some sort of compromise. The RX8 lacks in power but makes up elsewhere.

I'm in the minority but, for me at least, the 8 has all the power it needs. Listen, just because cars get faster every year doesn't necessarily mean that faster is always better. What's fast enough? 0-60 in 7 seconds? Six? Five? Is 0-60 in 4 seconds fast enough? What if other cars can do 0-60 in 3.5 seconds—is 4 seconds then too slow?

I'm suggesting that maybe—just maybe—there's a point where going faster is not necessarily… better. And, for me, at least, the 8 is at that point. The 8 trades some power for its sublime feel and handling—and very attractive price. What I give up in power by having that tiny engine—not much bigger than a bowling ball bag—is more than made up for in the way the car feels and handles. Would I like the 8 better if it had a little more power? Maybe, but I kinda doubt it. It's like, if you gave me the perfect hot fudge sundae, with just the right amount of hot fudge, and then asked me if I'd like it better if it had more hot fudge. Well, on some level, yes—but not really. Already have enough, thanks.

If you want more hp and torque, that's fine, I respect that. Lots of people love it—the more the better. (Particularly people who live away from the coasts, where the roads are ruler straight for hours at a time. I can understand why they love power over handling.) But for me, the 8 works great pretty much the way it is.

Agreed, the car has enough power for ME as a daily driver. My last car had only 175 hp and I racked up speeding tickets left and right. If you take it to the track, then ok more power would be awesome on the RX8.

I seriously don't see how people are using all the power in the mustang gt, 350z, and new 335i. How can you use that much power on the streets?

Of course others may disagree.

Yes, and we must remember that for many, it's fun just to have all that power, even if you never use it. Who ever said loving your car (whatever car it is) is totally logical?

I use all my power several times a day when I drive. In fact I can guarantee you I use it a hell of a lot more than any of you use your handling potential. Anyone that thinks it's easier and safer to use your handling potential on the streets more so than all your horsepower potential is out of their mind. That said, believe it or not, there are cars out there that handle really well and are fast at the same time. Just because a car is fast doesn't make it a drag car. Wacky stuff, huh? :Eyecrazy:

ahhh...
I think we have enough power, certainly a little bit more would be nice. But once we get to speed, our car's are amazing. I do think Mazda should do something about getting more mpg, something, anything...
little more power, better millage + RX-8 = FUNNEST CAR THE WORLD HAS SEEN!!!! lol

Some just don't see class and balance when its staring them in the face....

AutoWeek Drivers Log (05/14/07)
2007 Mazda RX-8 (6M)
As Tested Price: $34,095
Fuel Economy: (EPA/AW): 20/15.8

MORRISON: I have a love/hate relationship with the Mazda RX-8. I love the relative practicality, the flat-out made handling, the steering feel, the suspension. But the Renesis engine delivers no torque and drinks gasoline like an F-22 fighter on full afterburner. And for what? A whole 232 hp? Cue the angry letters from rotary-engine nuts, but we've spent a lot of time with this car, and it doesn't intrigue me as it once did. That's a shame, because this Mazda was conceived with much more than raw power in mind, but the chassis is so good that it makes you dream of just that.

I could be mad about this posting but thing is the guy fell outa love with the car. To me its no big deal, once you fall outa love with something you nitpick the hell out of it. Lack of Power well Mazsport and Pettit just released great kits that deliver that power. Torque um.. I love the fact that this car isnt a torque monster, saves me from getting into trouble really as I tend to have a lead foot. The mileage well this has been beaten to death, its a sports car thats my reasoning dillulisional or not I dont care lol. I have a feeling this guys next car will most likely be a Challenger or the G8 so he can have his straight line torque monster he seems to secretly want. lol..

Agreed, the car has enough power for ME as a daily driver. My last car had only 175 hp and I racked up speeding tickets left and right. If you take it to the track, then ok more power would be awesome on the RX8.

I seriously don't see how people are using all the power in the mustang gt, 350z, and new 335i. How can you use that much power on the streets?

Of course others may disagree.
They use all that power to end up into poles, walls and barriers and other obstacles.

I have a question, but before I post it I would like to say that I did a thorough test drive of my 6-speed 8 before I bought it and I was perfectly satisfied with the power and just about everything else about the car. Having said that, the question:

Just for S's & G's, let's assume the 8 has 300 HP at the flywheel. Could the current drive train and suspension handle it or would the added power push the chassis to a point where some undesirable things show up?
1.3L

I have a question, but before I post it I would like to say that I did a thorough test drive of my 6-speed 8 before I bought it and I was perfectly satisfied with the power and just about everything else about the car. Having said that, the question:

Just for S's & G's, let's assume the 8 has 300 HP at the flywheel. Could the current drive train and suspension handle it or would the added power push the chassis to a point where some undesirable things show up?
1.3L

You might have to adjust some valving and springrates for the suspension to be optimal, but the chassis itself would be just fine with more power. 300hp isn't anything earth shattering nowadays and it's hardly going to turn the car into some beast like some people here think. There enough guys here with mostly stock cars with just a turbo kit and supporting mods, ask them. The thing they probablt qworry about the most is their tune, engine, and lousy engine management systems.

I use all my power several times a day when I drive. In fact I can guarantee you I use it a hell of a lot more than any of you use your handling potential. Anyone that thinks it's easier and safer to use your handling potential on the streets more so than all your horsepower potential is out of their mind. That said, believe it or not, there are cars out there that handle really well and are fast at the same time. Just because a car is fast doesn't make it a drag car. Wacky stuff, huh? :Eyecrazy:

+1

The 8 has good power, it's zippy, but it needs more. Everyone and their dogs know it.

A positive about having an N/A rotary is the rev-ability. High RPMs don't faze it (except for gas mileage) and the 9000 redline is a thrill to experience, even if it's not 300 whp.

All I need to get my hands on now is Pettit's S/C, and then I'll be satisfied. Temporarily ;)

300hp isn't anything earth shattering nowadays and it's hardly going to turn the car into some beast like some people here think.

It wouldn't be a beast but the power to weight ratio would be pretty uncommon, given that the 8 is hundreds of pounds lighter than a lot of its competition, at least on the streets.


Btw my rear end has been kicking out like hell on wet days like these. DSC is straightening me out at least a few times daily, even at low RPMs. Even when it's dry and I take a quick turn...the car just gets a lot of body roll. Mazda softened up the suspension to make it a little more practical compared to a car like a Z but I'd like it more tightened up. Now I just need money for sways and coilovers...

It was the only thing in its price range (24K when i bought my 05 AT)that i could get with great handling, a decent ride, a usable back seat, 4 doors, a decent reliability rating, and styling that i liked. Plus I was curious to try the rotary engine.

I should be getting a new diff with the 4.77 gear in a few weeks. That should help the acceleration issue some.

Here is the deal. There are so many people that complain about the fuel economy already and pretty much any mod that would add significant power/torque (super/turbocharger) would require more of a loss in fuel economy. Since when, do people buy a sports car for fuel economy anyways. Have you ever heard a Mustang or 350Z owner say "I bought my car because of the fuel efficiency?" It is this guys own loss that he does not want anything to do with the 8. I still enjoy my 8, and his opinion will never change that!

this is all imo....

i think the rx8 is FUN as is. ive been driving 1st gen rx7's forever, and for me the rx8 is an improvement in every way. its also FUN in the same way as the old rx's are.

would more hp be a bad thing? nope not at all.

is it needed? not really. i'm not trying to drag race every car i see, and the rx8 has a nice close ratio (its the competition trans from 79 with a granny 1st, basically) gearbox, so theres always a gear to drop down to...

(Originally Posted by CarAndDriver View Post
AutoWeek Drivers Log (05/14/07)
2007 Mazda RX-8 (6M)
As Tested Price: $34,095
Fuel Economy: (EPA/AW): 20/15.8

MORRISON: I have a love/hate relationship with the Mazda RX-8. I love the relative practicality, the flat-out made handling, the steering feel, the suspension. But the Renesis engine delivers no torque and drinks gasoline like an F-22 fighter on full afterburner. And for what? A whole 232 hp? Cue the angry letters from rotary-engine nuts, but we've spent a lot of time with this car, and it doesn't intrigue me as it once did. That's a shame, because this Mazda was conceived with much more than raw power in mind, but the chassis is so good that it makes you dream of just that.)

I guess Mazda can bump up the power when and if they do the 1st redesign of the car. It's still in its first gen production so give them the chance to change and improve anything they feel needs it. To anyone who owns and drives the car regularly and feels that it is underpowered I can only say you are a DAMN FOOL for spending that much money only to be unsatisfied! I actually test drove the car on several occasions before I decided I wanted it and knew exactly what I was getting, as should have the rest of you owners - nothing has changed in the last 2 years of ownership (no, the car doesn't get any slower - only your reasoning and reflexes!!!)

As for the gas consumption, it was all on the sticker (can you people read?) The sticker states 18/24 MPG and I get around 17 MPG driving it hard all the time with little to no freeway time. This is 1 MPG under the stated value for city driving and is perfectly in line with what my 2 minivans get for their stated gas mileage (18/24) as they are supposed to get this kind of mileage and only get 17 MPG as well.

Anyone who is not satisfied with the car's performance after test driving it has only themselves to blame and not Mazda! I test drove a 350 Z and even though it is a very nice car with ample power I didn't like that it felt far less smooth than an RX-8. Thus, I didn't purchase one and have no need to rake Nissan over the coals for producing a car that I am not happy with - I made the decision not to get it and am perfectly happy with my decision to get the 8 instead. I don't remember Mazda forcing me or any other person to buy and 8, we made these decisions on our own after ample testing and research - right?!?!? Nobody here would blindly follow and do and believe what others post on chat sites, that's just crazy!!!!!

I think I know why most people have a problem with Ike, he doesn't sugar coat anything. Granted it can be a little brass at times but more often than not it's the truth, whether or not most here can handle it is the problem. I'd say he's the "Simon Cowell" of the board.

(minus tight black shirt)

:end speculation:

I think I know why most people have a problem with Ike, he doesn't sugar coat anything. Granted it can be a little brass at times but more often than not it's the truth, whether or not most here can handle it is the problem. I'd say he's the "Simon Cowell" of the board.

(minus tight black shirt)

:end speculation:
I was thinking more along Paul Abdul! ;)

Queue up the delusional people that are trying to convince themselves that the RX-8 wouldn't be more fun with more power.

Almost anything is more fun with more power!

(Originally Posted by CarAndDriver View Post
AutoWeek Drivers Log (05/14/07)
2007 Mazda RX-8 (6M)
As Tested Price: $34,095
Fuel Economy: (EPA/AW): 20/15.8

MORRISON: I have a love/hate relationship with the Mazda RX-8. I love the relative practicality, the flat-out made handling, the steering feel, the suspension. But the Renesis engine delivers no torque and drinks gasoline like an F-22 fighter on full afterburner. And for what? A whole 232 hp? Cue the angry letters from rotary-engine nuts, but we've spent a lot of time with this car, and it doesn't intrigue me as it once did. That's a shame, because this Mazda was conceived with much more than raw power in mind, but the chassis is so good that it makes you dream of just that.)

I guess Mazda can bump up the power when and if they do the 1st redesign of the car. It's still in its first gen production so give them the chance to change and improve anything they feel needs it. To anyone who owns and drives the car regularly and feels that it is underpowered I can only say you are a DAMN FOOL for spending that much money only to be unsatisfied! I actually test drove the car on several occasions before I decided I wanted it and knew exactly what I was getting, as should have the rest of you owners - nothing has changed in the last 2 years of ownership (no, the car doesn't get any slower - only your reasoning and reflexes!!!)

As for the gas consumption, it was all on the sticker (can you people read?) The sticker states 18/24 MPG and I get around 17 MPG driving it hard all the time with little to no freeway time. This is 1 MPG under the stated value for city driving and is perfectly in line with what my 2 minivans get for their stated gas mileage (18/24) as they are supposed to get this kind of mileage and only get 17 MPG as well.

Anyone who is not satisfied with the car's performance after test driving it has only themselves to blame and not Mazda! I test drove a 350 Z and even though it is a very nice car with ample power I didn't like that it felt far less smooth than an RX-8. Thus, I didn't purchase one and have no need to rake Nissan over the coals for producing a car that I am not happy with - I made the decision not to get it and am perfectly happy with my decision to get the 8 instead. I don't remember Mazda forcing me or any other person to buy and 8, we made these decisions on our own after ample testing and research - right?!?!? Nobody here would blindly follow and do and believe what others post on chat sites, that's just crazy!!!!!


Agree with you 1000000000000000%
Very well written as well:score:

Even if the 8 came with 300Hp many of you would still be unhappy. You would complain that its not as fast as a GTO or a Cobra Mustang. If the 8 came with 400Hp many of you would still be unhappy that its not as fast as a Z-06 Corvette or a Twin turbo Porsche. Its a never ending whine fest!

Be happy with what the 8 provides, no... strait line performance is not the 8 's strong point, but it makes up for that as being a pretty well balanced sports car that can be driven easily at its limits.

Look at the Mini Cooper , low on power but probally one of the best handeling cars out there for the money and not to mention loads of fun to drive , especially on a curvy road. But it couldn't hold a candle to more than half the cars out there on a open strait road.

The RX-8 was not built for strait line, nor was it built to be a high all around performance car like a Z-06 ( which can handle and go fast in a strait line). The Rx-8 is a affordable sports car or sports coupe (depending on prefrence) that was built to be fun, balanced and to stir the soul of the driver.

Look at it like this.... the RX-8 is a nice foundation to build upon for the next rotary car that mazda brings out. But for now appreciate your 8 and enjoy!

We seem to be missing the real issue that the writer of the article is saying and that is for the gas consumed the car should be faster. He is right.

We bought the car with the HP and mileage listed. I am happy with the HP, would I like more sure, it would make the car better. The real killer here is the fuel consumption. Some on this board get close to EPA estimates, the majority get worst (14 to 16mpg) and some get much worst. (10 to 12mpg) range.

When you look at the 232hp with a 11mpg fuel rating it pretty much sucks. Some one mentioned a Mini and how it is fun and a great driver with much less HP, very true but while doing this it gets 25mpg city.

With $4/gallon gas prices coming unless Mazda can fix the mpg issue the rotary is living on borrowed time. Love the car but not at 12mpg.

We seem to be missing the real issue that the writer of the article is saying and that is for the gas consumed the car should be faster. He is right.No, he's wrong. He'd be right if the 8 had a piston engine. In the piston engine world, we have to choose between fuel economy and speed—if we have a very fast car, it's reasonable to expect mediocre fuel economy. And, conversely, if we have mediocre fuel economy, we expect a very fast car in return.

But the 8 has a rotary engine, which confronts us with a very different trade-off: in exchange for mediocre fuel economy, we get sublime feel and handling—courtesy of the placement of the tiny, lightweight engine that's barely 13" tall. Yes, there are fast cars that handle well, but review after review gush over the unique—yes, unique—feel of the RX-8. And that's what you're getting for your mediocre fuel economy. People can't deal with that because it's contrary to how we normally think about fuel economy and speed.

So let me get this right, everyone is pissed off because the writer at AutoWeek stated what is already known. Is he supposed to write his long-term update without stating the good, and the bad? Read any long-term report on any car and they will list its accomplishments, and flaws.

What does everyone expect. We all sit around and rehash the same arguments/discussions every single day. Even if the RX-8 had a major update every other Thursday we'd still talk about the same crap over and over again. These magazines are no different. They run out of crap to talk about and basically just reiterate the same junk that every other publication does.

This article is about as useful as this thread. Then again, at least this thread is getting me a higher post count that I can use to impress chicks.

The RX-8 is teaching me to be a better driver .

Since I can't simply beat everyone by simply putting my right foot down ... I need to out drive them!

Power = $ 10,000
Handling = $ 8,000
Driving lessons = priceless :)

Anyone that thinks it's easier and safer to use your handling potential on the streets more so than all your horsepower potential is out of their mind.

That's is exactly how I feel. And for me, the reason I don't just buy a Mustang GT or something similar is because style, whatever that is to me, is important. The people that say "any car can go fast in a straight line" might be right, but not all of them actually make me want to look at them.

Sorta off topic, but there always seems to be a handful of n00bs that don't seem to understand.

I posted a reply under that blog titled "Sick & tired of 8 haters". I'm really getting tired of the dislike for this car.

Just last night some freakin moron in a TDI Volkswagen starts slamming my car and telling me what a piece of junk it is. All I was trying to do was get some grass seed!

no need to get pissed about people like that, it just shows their own narrow mindedness.

but then again, theres quite a few people here that like slam lesser cars too.

I posted a reply under that blog titled "Sick & tired of 8 haters". I'm really getting tired of the dislike for this car.

Just last night some freakin moron in a TDI Volkswagen starts slamming my car and telling me what a piece of junk it is. All I was trying to do was get some grass seed!

Hey, I posted a reply too. "Mine was titled the best car you'll ever need"

Cheers

Hey, I posted a reply too. "Mine was titled the best car you'll ever need"

Cheers


Well said! :)

the 8 has all the power it needs.

By this spring I was getting a little loopy and starting to think things like this. Then the weather got nice and I pulled out my 1000cc V-twin crotch rocket. It reminded me that:

:rock: ENOUGH IS NEVER ENOUGH! :rock:

Power? You can never have enough "USABLE" power.

What has been said about the 8 many times is the chassis is capable of handling at least 100hp more. I am in agreement with this.

Do I complain about the lack of power though? No. I knew going into it that this was not a 1/4 mile car. It's like buying a miata and complaining it is slow.

What exactly does having 100, or even 200hp more get you? Extra cornering speed? No. It gets you from 0 to loose your license faster.

Want speed? get a bike!

Do we want a TVR with over 900bhp/ton to wrestle with?

Or do you take a car that has been written as one of the easiest cars to exploit the handling limits by your average driver?

Not many other cars that I know of has had so many favorable reviews about the handling except for the NSX, and possibly the boxster.

From the factory the car is a blast on any twisty real road surface. Don't like it as it comes from the factory?
Then there are plenty of aftermarket companies with product ready to give you more HP, more grip, louder sound, bigger brakes, etc. You have a base to work with that is unique. Put a 3-rotor turbo in it if you want.

The RX-8 is not a sports car. It is a sporty car that you can thrash all day long with 3 of your friends (2 at least) on twisty bumpy mountain roads hitting 9K rpm in every upshift with beautiful neutral 4 wheel drifts, or NOT.

That's the beauty - If you want more speed for the price - get an EVO. Nothing will touch it for the money.

For me it's all about Balance - 1 car that is affordable, unique, that can do most everything. (I'd really like an RS4, but it is a tad more expensive)

I need more power.

here is my take on why you get so many people who think the 8 is slow...

yes they test drove it. yes they knew what they were getting into.

the "problem" with the RX8 is that it is so much darn fun. I test drove an 8 while I still owned my last car. My last car was a 350hp turbo sports sedan...now sold...that car would tear the headlights out of MANY sports cars. I took it to the street legal drags and outran an STi.... (lost to a few souped up EVOs...) but bottom line..my heavy/four door/high hp uber-sedan.... would smoke an RX8....humiliate it..in a straight ilne..and honestly...on a road coarse woudl kill it too due to the power advantage... BUT.. when I got back from teh test drive..i thought to myself. "i like this better". it was more *fun*. the driving experience was more enjoyable. for flat out hauling from light to light..the faster cars do the job better...but when you just drive an RX8 on a twisty road...and ask yourself...what do I enjoy more... you're gonna have MORE fun in an RX8 that in MANY cars that have better "stats".... period. we all know that.

so people test drive it..they get all giddy and excited about how fun it is...buy it...

then over the next 6 months...some of that initial fun/excitement wears off...and then they start to gegt annoyed with the lack of torque. they commyute wtih the car back/forth to work..they don't have time to take it out on a twisty road...or out for a cruise..they stop winding it up to 9k.... and they just put around..and if that's all you do..yeah..i can see people getting annoyed with the car.

but it's not the cars fault..they just got bored with it..and quit doing stuff with the car that makes it fun to own and drive.

if you were going to buy a car SOLELY to commute in. and wanted the best commuter car..you'd be better off in somethign like a MS6 or an Acura TL or something. bigger back seats, bigger trunk, more torque, more luxury... but LESS FUN.

the test drive sells them on the fun factor...then they go back to their routine/boring commuter car routines..and then they get bored/annoyed with the car.

that's what I think... if these people who were annoyed with their cars gas consumption and lack of torque would shut upa nd just take the car out on the nearest twisty road, on a nice warm saturday afternoon..with some kickin' tunes on teh radio...and rev the stink out of their car..i think they would fall in love all over again..

but i do think more power would still make it better. :)

^ +1 on what 23109VC said. :)

re: sql's response> hahahaha. indeed :) :lol2:

I agree with you. What we need is less power, then the car would be perfect.

here is my take on why you get so many people who think the 8 is slow...

yes they test drove it. yes they knew what they were getting into.

the "problem" with the RX8 is that it is so much darn fun. I test drove an 8 while I still owned my last car. My last car was a 350hp turbo sports sedan...now sold...that car would tear the headlights out of MANY sports cars. I took it to the street legal drags and outran an STi.... (lost to a few souped up EVOs...) but bottom line..my heavy/four door/high hp uber-sedan.... would smoke an RX8....humiliate it..in a straight ilne..and honestly...on a road coarse woudl kill it too due to the power advantage... BUT.. when I got back from teh test drive..i thought to myself. "i like this better". it was more *fun*. the driving experience was more enjoyable. for flat out hauling from light to light..the faster cars do the job better...but when you just drive an RX8 on a twisty road...and ask yourself...what do I enjoy more... you're gonna have MORE fun in an RX8 that in MANY cars that have better "stats".... period. we all know that.

so people test drive it..they get all giddy and excited about how fun it is...buy it...

then over the next 6 months...some of that initial fun/excitement wears off...and then they start to gegt annoyed with the lack of torque. they commyute wtih the car back/forth to work..they don't have time to take it out on a twisty road...or out for a cruise..they stop winding it up to 9k.... and they just put around..and if that's all you do..yeah..i can see people getting annoyed with the car.

but it's not the cars fault..they just got bored with it..and quit doing stuff with the car that makes it fun to own and drive.

if you were going to buy a car SOLELY to commute in. and wanted the best commuter car..you'd be better off in somethign like a MS6 or an Acura TL or something. bigger back seats, bigger trunk, more torque, more luxury... but LESS FUN.

the test drive sells them on the fun factor...then they go back to their routine/boring commuter car routines..and then they get bored/annoyed with the car.

that's what I think... if these people who were annoyed with their cars gas consumption and lack of torque would shut upa nd just take the car out on the nearest twisty road, on a nice warm saturday afternoon..with some kickin' tunes on teh radio...and rev the stink out of their car..i think they would fall in love all over again..

but i do think more power would still make it better. :)That's a good theory. Good insight.

I want my MTV.

I have to put in some comment on this now that I am deprived of an rx-8, ITS WAYYYY BETTER THAN ALOT OF OTHER CARS!!!! it might not even be as fast as the 335i, hell, I think maybe a good camry might pwn it as well, BUT SERIOUSLY, GO DRIVE ANOTHER CAR AND COMPARE! its way more fun to drive (sob at the crappy rental car)

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD: AFTERMARKET PARTS!!!! ring a bell? god damn retards

I relate the 8 to an old girl friend of mine. She was hot and a lot of fun. The problem was when I had to live with her on a day to day bases she had some faults that proved to be a deal breaker. It took me a while to get ride of her because she was a lot of fun but in the end that fun was not enough to over come the daily stuff.

Just like that girl the 8 is a great car that and a ton of fun to drive but when I watch that tank drain on a daily bases at 12 mpg that fun factor starts to wain.

here is my take on why you get so many people who think the 8 is slow...

yes they test drove it. yes they knew what they were getting into.

the "problem" with the RX8 is that it is so much darn fun. I test drove an 8 while I still owned my last car. My last car was a 350hp turbo sports sedan...now sold...that car would tear the headlights out of MANY sports cars. I took it to the street legal drags and outran an STi.... (lost to a few souped up EVOs...) but bottom line..my heavy/four door/high hp uber-sedan.... would smoke an RX8....humiliate it..in a straight ilne..and honestly...on a road coarse woudl kill it too due to the power advantage... BUT.. when I got back from teh test drive..i thought to myself. "i like this better". it was more *fun*. the driving experience was more enjoyable. for flat out hauling from light to light..the faster cars do the job better...but when you just drive an RX8 on a twisty road...and ask yourself...what do I enjoy more... you're gonna have MORE fun in an RX8 that in MANY cars that have better "stats".... period. we all know that.

so people test drive it..they get all giddy and excited about how fun it is...buy it...

then over the next 6 months...some of that initial fun/excitement wears off...and then they start to gegt annoyed with the lack of torque. they commyute wtih the car back/forth to work..they don't have time to take it out on a twisty road...or out for a cruise..they stop winding it up to 9k.... and they just put around..and if that's all you do..yeah..i can see people getting annoyed with the car.

but it's not the cars fault..they just got bored with it..and quit doing stuff with the car that makes it fun to own and drive.

if you were going to buy a car SOLELY to commute in. and wanted the best commuter car..you'd be better off in somethign like a MS6 or an Acura TL or something. bigger back seats, bigger trunk, more torque, more luxury... but LESS FUN.

the test drive sells them on the fun factor...then they go back to their routine/boring commuter car routines..and then they get bored/annoyed with the car.

that's what I think... if these people who were annoyed with their cars gas consumption and lack of torque would shut upa nd just take the car out on the nearest twisty road, on a nice warm saturday afternoon..with some kickin' tunes on teh radio...and rev the stink out of their car..i think they would fall in love all over again..

but i do think more power would still make it better. :)

I relate the 8 to an old girl friend of mine. She was hot and a lot of fun. The problem was when I had to live with her on a day to day bases she had some faults that proved to be a deal breaker. It took me a while to get ride of her because she was a lot of fun but in the end that fun was not enough to over come the daily stuff.

Just like that girl the 8 is a great car that and a ton of fun to drive but when I watch that tank drain on a daily bases at 12 mpg that fun factor starts to wain.

So are you saying you want to PIIDB with your 8?

Thinking about this some more....
What do raw numbers really mean? Cars are as much or more about an emotional connection over performance.
How does the car feel when you drive it?
Do you feel as though you are in tune with what the car is doing, or merely just piloting a ship?
In a recent EVO magazine they had a Lingenfelter Z-06 run around their track faster than a Ferrari 599 GTB.
Did they give it a glowing review? Not really - the reviewer claimed the standard Z-06 was fine - he would spend the extra money on suspension upgrades and track time.

With the 8, the engine is so smooth, that in stop and go traffic with the tunes playing, the sunroof open, when traffic breaks I am still in 2nd gear bouncing off the rev limiter. Why? Rotary!

EVO did a supercar comparison where the Bugatti Veyron pretty much ate everything else regardless of the road : straight, mountain, whatever. Did they pick it as the car they would take home? No.

What may be the fastest car out there, may not be the best.
What may be the newest car out there, may not be better than the car it replaces.

Think about the old 4 cylinder M3, the Datsun 510? Sure the newer cars are much more powerful, safer, but are they more fun?

TVR Cerbera Speed 12 = 917bhp/ton
McLaren F1 = 559 bhp/ton
Ruf CTR Yellowbird = 345 bhp/ton.

Is there such a thing as too much power? Ghostrider and the 500hp turbo Hayabusa doesn't think so.

I still want an RS4 though.

I like to put everything in perspective... in 1980, I picked an rx-7 for $12000 over a Porsche 924 for about $14K, the 924 had 25% more horsepower, handled better, got better gas mileage (20-25 vs 17-22) - but wasn't as much fun. Remember this RX-7 was at about 100hp, rear drum brakes, and depreciated to 1/3 its new price ($4000) in 4 years. Oh, and that $12000 was about 40% of my annual salary as a young engineer.

Flash forward to 2005: Bought the RX-8 for $25000 which is about 30% my old engineer's salary. 230% more HP, Same gas mileage, better handling, safer, Seats FOUR!
A Porsche - the Cayman - I guess would be the model equivalent to the 924 - is also oodles better than its predecessor - but costs 3.5 - 4 times as much. Still just the Cayman HP goes up to 245 HP a Smaller increase in HP relative to the Mazda.

More comparisons:
1980 RX7 0-60 10 seconds RX-8 6.5 seconds
1980 924 0-60 9.5 seconds Cayman 6.1 second (same difference!)

The RX8 is the best sports car bargain in the world. Oh, and as for fuel economy, going to work today is cost me about one gallon of premium gas ($3.25/gallon) and $2.75 for coffee (over $10.00 a gallon!) I'll give up the coffee before I give up my commute in the RX-8! I'll just have to drive a little fast to get the heart pumping for work...

I use all my power several times a day when I drive. In fact I can guarantee you I use it a hell of a lot more than any of you use your handling potential. Anyone that thinks it's easier and safer to use your handling potential on the streets more so than all your horsepower potential is out of their mind. That said, believe it or not, there are cars out there that handle really well and are fast at the same time. Just because a car is fast doesn't make it a drag car. Wacky stuff, huh? :Eyecrazy:


Ike, how can you use all your power several times a day? According to your post count, it looks to me like you never, ever leave your house.

All that being said, I question why Mazda doesn't sell more Rx-8s? I find it a fine automobile that seems to have alot of offering to a wide specrum of drivers. But its hard to see why it doesn't sell more cars then the Subaru STI/WRX.

I know some people think this is a plus bc no many are driver their Car. But Cars at this price are not like suit coats or dresses or shoes. The more sold the more company support it gets and the longer the Car stays in production.

I think there are different types drivers and some that are attached to legacys at any price (Ferrira, Lamboghinnas, Porsche, Nobles) some want performance in the extreme, some want bag for bucks (Evo, STI, Str4s?), Some want a balance of power and handling (Bmw, Porsches, Vette, Z-cars, S2000?), some want the thrill of the moment, some like the RX-8 drivers the knowledge of pushing their cars to the limit in curves and high reveving to speed in a comfortable coupe.

Is it that the majority of drivers haven't driven the RX-8 or they avoid it because to some people numbers are relative terms that amount to what can be expected from that car.

All that being said, I question why Mazda doesn't sell more Rx-8s?

Why? Because the slushbox RX-8 is crippled, and most mainstream "sports cars" are sold with a slushbox. Look at the G35 coupe or 3-series.

If the S2000 came with an AT, Honda could have moved 3x more units.

That's is exactly how I feel. And for me, the reason I don't just buy a Mustang GT or something similar is because style, whatever that is to me, is important. The people that say "any car can go fast in a straight line" might be right, but not all of them actually make me want to look at them.

Sorta off topic, but there always seems to be a handful of n00bs that don't seem to understand.


I'm with you saturn . This car has the looks over just about anything out there & on top of that you get great handling & feel .
It is also pretty quick which is a real bonus . Just don't take it drag racing .

this is how i feel...

back in november when i was looken at getting a new car.. i was wanting something sporty and pretty cheap. the RX8 never ever ever even crossed my mind when i was thinking about cars that fit into that category. the average person is thinking "350z, mustang, camaro, g35, eclipse, tiburon..." u know, the usuals. and u gotta admit that mazda doesnt push and promote the RX8 like they do their other vehicles. and the RX8 doesnt get the press like it should.... why ? its becuz the RX8 is forgotten in the sports car world. its true... i completely had forgotten about it till the day i saw one at the used car dealership, and listed at such a low price it caught my interest. and after the first test drive i was hooked ! the RX8 is a damn great car... all a person needs is a test drive on a curvy road to find that out. to all those people that talk down on the RX8, or dont understand why RX8 owners love there cars so much... is becuz they havent experienced the car yet, they havent drove it.

the RX8 gets NO press.. every once in a while maybe, like the latest MT. and its nice to see a 4 year old car win against brand new sports cars. that says something right there.

that being said.. yes the gas mileage sucks lol. its plenty fast to me, but shoot id take 100 more hp if it had it :) and after all said and done I LOVE THIS CAR !

DRIVE ONE !

Point blank the RX-8 should have been 300HP to 325HP and pulling low 5 sec 0-60. Had it been this way, the RX-8 would have been close to perfect.

Point blank, Mazda/Mazdaspeed had its head far up its own butt, to not figure out how to get an extra 75HP out of the RX-8. Damn, how hard could it be to come up with an FI solution and charge an extra $10,000 bucks for it as an option??? Just plain outrageous they did not do it. Though for some reason, I wonder if Ford had something to do with that...

Point blank the RX-8 should have been 300HP to 325HP and pulling low 5 sec 0-60. Had it been this way, the RX-8 would have been close to perfect.

Point blank, Mazda/Mazdaspeed had its head far up its own butt, to not figure out how to get an extra 75HP out of the RX-8. Damn, how hard could it be to come up with an FI solution and charge an extra $10,000 bucks for it as an option??? Just plain outrageous they did not do it. Though for some reason, I wonder if Ford had something to do with that...

There's no secret conspiracy. The RX-8 barely passes emissions as is -- with FI there's no way. The next-gen rotary is going to have to be a hybrid to pass the upcoming emissions changes (2010?).

The RX-8 gets no press?? Its won most of the magazine competition (until you read how it won) those in the know, know the RX-8. Its not the famous 92-98 Rx-7 but it is a new idea and great Car. It very practical and comfortable boardering on the bmw 325 series comfort level and its sporty boardering on the S2000. Its has a wide spectrum to the prespective drivers. Now it doesn't get the Tv press that the 350Z or Vette or Mustang gets. But its in a lot of Movies ( I don't know if that helps if john q public doesn't know what it is) but most sports car fanatic knows the Rx-8. I rate it in the top best sports cars on my list.

By I have to say this when I think of Sports cars I don't Tibourn weak engine and non exciting design & I don't know about its handling bc I ain't interested.

The Camaro and Mustangs are Sports Cars but more like pony cars or muscle cars. The Mustangs price & appeal range is why it sells so many cars, I bet its more 6 cylclinders out there then GTs. Most buyers just want a Stang incrowd thing.

My problem with the RX-8 is when you need immeadiate pickup does it have it? I haven't tested that feature yet during my long test drives. Handling is something that you have to find the right road to test, so its not as compelling an issue, until you find that strecht of curves.

If you just get out of a Mustang GT you will think the Rx-8 seems slow. If you get out of a Tibourn and into a 8 you will think the Rx-8 seems zippy and faster.

If you get out of a 350z and drive a Mustang GT you will think both cars are fast one just looks so much better. Pending what you like retro Stang or near Porsche looks.

Here is the deal. There are so many people that complain about the fuel economy already and pretty much any mod that would add significant power/torque (super/turbocharger) would require more of a loss in fuel economy. Since when, do people buy a sports car for fuel economy anyways. Have you ever heard a Mustang or 350Z owner say "I bought my car because of the fuel efficiency?" It is this guys own loss that he does not want anything to do with the 8. I still enjoy my 8, and his opinion will never change that!

Well you are partially right. I have a 350Z Roadster which is the king of impracticle (sp) but as my wife and I are looking for another sporty car of course the 8 with its great looks was on the top of the list. I was sorta convinced that as many of you as long as it got 18-20 mpg everything would be ok. On the other hand I can drive my Z hard and unless we are talking about Tail of the Dragon or track hard, I get 21 mpg regardless. Put it on the highway even with larger, wider tires I am still getting 24 mpg at 85 mph. Now that the gas companies have decided to bleed me through the summer (best time to drive) then we are looking and checking options again. The V8 mustang good power obviously doesn't handle as well as the 8, but runs on regular gas and get better mileage again by far. Truthfully as far as a sporty car for my wife, son and I to play in and go for a ride even in the mountains the 8 would be our first choice if all was well but with Regular gas heading for 4 bucks a gallon a sports car daily driver may even be out and the 8 may have been pushed back that much more. Hell I might even be able to pull the trigger on 20 mpg but some of you are talking 15-16 and that is just to low. I have my flame suit so burn away but these are some thoughts from someone who really wants to buy an 8 but the compromise seems to be to high. This really has nothing to do with the power or the handling as I bet I can get my Z through any curvy road as fast as anyone else with an 8 with like skills and visa versa but the cost to own is killer right now. Can we have a vote for opening up a few nuclear plants and give us back our gas!

The RX-8 could win 3 mag comparos a month and it still wouldn't sell. Between the reliability fears of the rotary, the lack of power and torque, the bad gas mileage, and the fact that a heck of a lot of people think it's ugly, means it will never be a big seller.

Ike, how can you use all your power several times a day? According to your post count, it looks to me like you never, ever leave your house.

Yeah, because making 5 posts a day is so time consuming. :rolleyes:

The RX-8 could win 3 mag comparos a month and it still wouldn't sell.You are SO right! Whether it's choosing a sports car, a president, or whether or not to "believe" in evolution—people in this country just don't get it. I remember when we were known for our sound judgment. But today? I'm an Ameri-cun. I don't need to listen to no experts! I'm dumb as a doorknob, talk like I never finished school—and proud of it!

You are SO right! Whether it's choosing a sports car, a president, or whether or not to "believe" in evolution—people in this country just don't get it. I remember when we were known for our sound judgment. But today? I'm an Ameri-cun. I don't need to listen to no experts! I'm dumb as a doorknob, talk like I never finished school—and proud of it!

This right here is the worst part of this forum. This ridiculous idea that anyone who takes a look at what they need and want and finds the 8 to be wanting somehow doesn't "get it".

Fortunately this forum has a very low ratio of morons to normal people.

This right here is the worst part of this forum. This ridiculous idea that anyone who takes a look at what they need and want and finds the 8 to be wanting somehow doesn't "get it".

Fortunately this forum has a very low ratio of morons to normal people.You tell 'em! Those auto journalists don't know shit! :rolleyes:

There's no secret conspiracy. The RX-8 barely passes emissions as is -- with FI there's no way. The next-gen rotary is going to have to be a hybrid to pass the upcoming emissions changes (2010?).

I don't buy that.

If Mazdaspeed followed through on the supercharger, they have a better chance of passing emissions and delivering more power.

Also, you would think engineers would get into a think tank and think of ways to get the pass. As it was, Mazda pulled some last minute ECU craziness to get the emissions pass in the U.S. That does not look like the mark of well planned or even out the box thinking. Better CAT, ECU changes, different exhaust, etc....

There is almost always an answer, just have to come up with it, even if it means thinking outside the box.

Also, you are talking FI as an option. You are charging the customers that want the power more. So there should be a profit in offering it. Right now, people are going to pro-tuners to buy FI kits, so that's money Mazda never sees. In fact, Mazda just gets complaints for not delivering enough power and looks bad. They have a product that could have been "near-perfect" and fumbled.

Also, people would have been a lot more tolerant of low gas mileage with an extra 50HP to 100HP.

New Yorkers - You are SO right! Whether it's choosing a sports car, a president, or whether or not to "believe" in evolution—people in this country just don't get it. I remember when we were known for our sound judgment. But today? I'm an Ameri-cun. I don't need to listen to no experts! I'm dumb as a doorknob, talk like I never finished school—and proud of it!


What that is called, is making an intelligent decision base on READING or driving the cars themself. And why are you just picking on the USA buyers there is no country in the world that RX-8 outsells the 350Z or I350 or Mx-5. Russia has stop selling the Rx-8.

The RX-8 will always be a cult car Movies producers, writers, auto mags editors and Rotary fanatics love them, but the general public wants more then innovative ideas they want mpg, reliability and performance. In the case of the RX-8 1 out 3 is not good.

I personally think its a very good looking, practical car and handles like a cheetha and really don't know why its not more popular. But the general publics not buying it. But they ARE buying the MX-5, why? BC they like it and its their choice.

For people to see things different then you don't make them ignorant or dumb, it just mean they have a different opinion which is all part of whats called freedom of thought, and the right to spend your money what U want.

Now that President thing I agree 100%, he into oil and oil companies are raking us over the barrel. Somebodies getting Richer. That's another subject.

Well you bring up some fair points—maybe I overreacted a little. And I thought the 8 sold well in other countries—perhaps that's not true.

I guess this is a sore point for me, though, because I do find that, more and more, Americans seem to strangely ignore logic and reason in so many things. So when the 8 wins comparo after comparo and people still go out and choose another sports car, it gives me pause.

Hey, the auto journalists who do these comparos—experts who do nothing but drive and review cars—are well aware of the 8's less-than-stellar power and mileage; it's in their reviews—yet they give it the win anyway because, at the end of the day, it's the car that pleases them most. The buying public, on the other hand, armed with the very same info, chooses a lesser car. (And they'll complain about the 8's poor mileage as they climb back into their other car—a Lincoln Navigator.) :scratchhe

I see your point but I honestly think that the general public after READING then experiencing these cars feel that the Car Editors are judging a new look and feel.
Did you read the C&D repost on the 8 here on this forum. The Mazda RX-8 seems sorta like crack (i've read) an extreme high thats over quickly then its no big deal. The 8 becomes its own victim, in that its so inovative its hard to define it. It does a lot of things well and something not so well.

I hate to admit that when I read these articles that the RX-8 won these camparison because of practicality, because of its rear seats and trunk making it fun to drive. You have to reflect back on the base topic at hand they were evaluating SPORTS CARS, not Sport Sedans or Luxury sport sedans. I've seen videos were the RX-8 was declared the winner of a comparo after losing every event, one drivers comment was that the other cars were driver cars and the 8 would be better for the average driver. Which made it the winner? Thats a personal opinion not track facts.

When has soild torque & power, two seats, quick 0-60 time, fast quarter mile time, good salom times, braking, convertible top, and reliability been a negative in rating SCs.

When I read these articles it seems that the Chevy Vette, Honda S2000 or Z-cars are the truest Sport Car and they sell well, but there far from being a practical vehicle. But are what a SC is or use to be. They do makes a define Statement. Saying "We are Sport Cars".

The Mazda Rx-8 on the other hand looks like a Sports Car but is not as defined, it could be a adequate anything, Sporty Coupe, Sport sedan or Sedan. It's definitely a AutoXer.

You maybe right on one point the USA does (maybe the world) like pulling for the underdog, so the RX-8 mag wins defeats its self. I do see your point in that regard, if thats true, it is kind of oxymoron but its human nature.

Well you bring up some fair points—maybe I overreacted a little. And I thought the 8 sold well in other countries—perhaps that's not true.

I guess this is a sore point for me, though, because I do find that, more and more, Americans seem to strangely ignore logic and reason in so many things. So when the 8 wins comparo after comparo and people still go out and choose another sports car, it gives me pause.

Hey, the auto journalists who do these comparos—experts who do nothing but drive and review cars—are well aware of the 8's less-than-stellar power and mileage; it's in their reviews—yet they give it the win anyway because, at the end of the day, it's the car that pleases them most. The buying public, on the other hand, armed with the very same info, chooses a lesser car. (And they'll complain about the 8's poor mileage as they climb back into their other car—a Lincoln Navigator.) :scratchhe

Even if you ignore the fact that the RX-8 isn't advertised very well, the simple answer is that magazine editors tend to be different from the general public. They sit in cars all day and they want something different every now and again. In America -- home of the hot rod -- we have wide, straight, flat roads and thus most people don't want a car like the 8 with little torque. Most people would sacrifice handling and feel for straight ahead speed.

It just comes down to priorities. Those comparisons are about giving a good idea of what a car is like so that you can make your own decision -- not let them make it for you. I'll grant you that most people at least in this country buy their cars without researching at all and probably don't know about the 8 at all. But I still stand by my assertion that the 8 isn't for everyone, especially in this country.

I don't buy that.

If Mazdaspeed followed through on the supercharger, they have a better chance of passing emissions and delivering more power.

Also, you would think engineers would get into a think tank and think of ways to get the pass. As it was, Mazda pulled some last minute ECU craziness to get the emissions pass in the U.S. That does not look like the mark of well planned or even out the box thinking. Better CAT, ECU changes, different exhaust, etc....

There is almost always an answer, just have to come up with it, even if it means thinking outside the box.

Also, you are talking FI as an option. You are charging the customers that want the power more. So there should be a profit in offering it. Right now, people are going to pro-tuners to buy FI kits, so that's money Mazda never sees. In fact, Mazda just gets complaints for not delivering enough power and looks bad. They have a product that could have been "near-perfect" and fumbled.

Also, people would have been a lot more tolerant of low gas mileage with an extra 50HP to 100HP.

I just don't think Mazda was (or is) ready for something like that. The RENESIS was too new to slap FI on it and cover it under warranty. And if they charged $5k for it, you're talking about a base model price of $32k.

You can think outside the box, but not if it costs millions of dollars. IMO, if they can get a hybrid rotary out to improve mileage and emissions, FI is much more likely.

I just don't think Mazda was (or is) ready for something like that. The RENESIS was too new to slap FI on it and cover it under warranty. And if they charged $5k for it, you're talking about a base model price of $32k.

You can think outside the box, but not if it costs millions of dollars. IMO, if they can get a hybrid rotary out to improve mileage and emissions, FI is much more likely.

The hybrid hydrogen rotary is pure garbage. I think Mazda and Ford only gave a green light on the project to get U.S. government funds for hydrogen projects or as a publicity stunt to appear eco-friendly.

You can put out a Mazdaspeed FI RX-8. A certain percentage of people want the extra power and its obvious they will pay for it.

Pettit's Supercharger kit and Mazsport's turbo kit, make Mazdaspeed personnel and Mazda look like idiots. Mazda should be the expert on developing FI for their own cars. At the very least, they could have contracted it out or gave support to the a pro-tuner shop developing an FI kit.

Mazda engineers could have offered support by programming the ECU for the whatever FI kit they choose. Then slap the Mazdaspeed name on it, put it under warranty, charge some extra money and "presto" Mazdaspeed RX-8.

Mazdaspeed/Mazda just straight out fumbled the project and proved to be lazy. Another fumble by Mazda with a new rotary and they will kill the RX- line. The sad part is that with some better decisions, the rotary could be a major profitable success. Not everybody will love the rotary engine, but with 50HP to 100HP more, less people will have bad things to say and more people would buy them.

You can put out a Mazdaspeed FI RX-8. A certain percentage of people want the extra power and its obvious they will pay for it.

You'd have to make a business case for it. Mazda knows the sale numbers, and knows how much they can expect to sell under the MS brand. The amount of research and development likely doesn't make sense for the following reason:


Pettit's Supercharger kit and Mazsport's turbo kit, make Mazdaspeed personnel and Mazda look like idiots. Mazda should be the expert on developing FI for their own cars. At the very least, they could have contracted it out or gave support to the a pro-tuner shop developing an FI kit.

Making a kit that contains a disclaimer for "off road use only" is far different than being a car manufacturer, it's not nearly that simple.

I would love to see a 350 whp mazdaspeed RX-8 at our local dealerships, but it's just not going to happen. The power levels that mazdaspeed traditionally increases the base car by is minimal. Most of us looking to FI would be disappointed by the increase in power. A mazdaspeed RX-8 is no holy grail.


The sad part is that with some better decisions, the rotary could be a major profitable success. Not everybody will love the rotary engine, but with 50HP to 100HP more, less people will have bad things to say and more people would buy them.

No, theres more possibilities for the car to break. The RX-8 already has a seriously bad name for itself not just due to it's own history, but also by the RX-7 issues. They wanted a strong NA engine to rebuild the rotary engine's image. I'm afraid that is where they failed. Like it or not, it's image remains tarnished even though most of our car's are fine.

The hybrid hydrogen rotary is pure garbage. I think Mazda and Ford only gave a green light on the project to get U.S. government funds for hydrogen projects or as a publicity stunt to appear eco-friendly.

Mazda seems pretty keen on some sort of hybrid and there's a good chance it will involve hydrogen in some way (fuel cell or burning). There's no way they're going to be able to continue the rotary without something dramatic because of tightening emissions.

And you can't just add FI as an option if only 200 people will buy it. It costs money to train the techs, supply the parts, etc, etc, etc. It's a very complicated process. And most people are not going to drop $10k on FI when they could get a Corvette for about the same price. I'm all for a very fast, great looking car -- I'll just be very surprised if that ever comes out of Mazda.

^ I was under the impression the Renesis is super-clean, emissions-wise -- but the cat wasn't standing up to the pounding, which is why they did the mess they did in '04 with the ECU. In other words, not because of the Renesis being a dirty lump, just the cat couldn't take the heat of running lean-ish.

Isn't the Renesis emissions compliant world-wide to LEV or better? It's supposed to be worlds apart from the peripheral-port rotaries, emissions-wise.

I don't think emissions are an issue in the renesis, nor are they likely to be an issue in the 5-10 year range. Unless, of course, our dear elected officials decide to go all super-paranoid and declare internal combustion unfit for our Glorious Kountry.

My solution to that? A really, really small nuclear teakettle spinning a small steam turbine, which in turn spins an alternator which in turn juices motors at each of the four corners of the car.

That'd be my fix ;)

(hey, at least it'd still have a turbine in it, and not 2000 pounds of battery.)

^ I was under the impression the Renesis is super-clean, emissions-wise -- but the cat wasn't standing up to the pounding, which is why they did the mess they did in '04 with the ECU. In other words, not because of the Renesis being a dirty lump, just the cat couldn't take the heat of running lean-ish.

Isn't the Renesis emissions compliant world-wide to LEV or better? It's supposed to be worlds apart from the peripheral-port rotaries, emissions-wise.

I don't think emissions are an issue in the renesis, nor are they likely to be an issue in the 5-10 year range. Unless, of course, our dear elected officials decide to go all super-paranoid and declare internal combustion unfit for our Glorious Kountry.

My solution to that? A really, really small nuclear teakettle spinning a small steam turbine, which in turn spins an alternator which in turn juices motors at each of the four corners of the car.

That'd be my fix ;)

(hey, at least it'd still have a turbine in it, and not 2000 pounds of battery.)

I can't remember the exact details but the Renesis is "clean" in some regards (maybe carbon dioxide?) but close to failing emissions in other regards. I'm sure someone that remembers the details will chime in.

See here is what I dont get.

Basically the whiner (wear the hat if it fits) decides to buy the RX8 but then decides later that it just aint fast enuff.

So then wouldn't the simple solution be to sell it and buy something else?

If you cant afford to do just that - then tough effing shit. You made the choice, now live by it and quit whining ya pansy. :spank:

Filling up with Fuel (Ahh yes, the 8 in it's local habitat!), I gave this Guido (no offense implied) with a loud Hundah Accord no less a look that basically said - "WTF are you doing?" He was backing out of a parking sport with throttle at over 3K rpm making as much - look at me - noise as possible.

He caught me looking, and before I could give him the obligatory sarcastic :worship: he yelled out - "believe it or not - this car is faster than yours!"

To this I simply smiled and nodded.

Some people just don't get it. Life is about choices - if you make one that you regret, move on. If the 8 doesn't have enough power and you can't beat Guido's Honda in a stoplight grandprix drop in a 3 rotor, put in a FI kit, or better yet - swap cars with Guido so you too can be that cool.

Take it to the track - try that braking and turning thing out - it really is more funnerer. stay safe.

If Mazda built the RX-8 with more horsepower it would cost so much more that less would be able buy it, as it was with RX-7 and 300zx turbos.

Most Sports car consumers stated that if they were going to spend $39k - $43k for a sports car they'd buy a used Vette, BMW or Porsche.

Only the most die hard Rotary fans would shell out $40k+ for a Mazda Rx8 or Rx-7 or 300zx or 350z.

These cars have their own price hicht, they are consider bargain Sport Cars. Not quite big time players like Porsche, Benz, Bmw, Lotus or Noble.