i went to raceway park today to watch some drifting asction, which was great by the way.well i left englishtown and my friends took me to go go rama well on the way there i had to follow my friend to the go go bar.Long story short i got harrasses by two cops for 45 min gave me a two tickest beacuse they said i was tailgating my friend ( my friend saw my headlights so i no i wasnt tailgaiting) and i didnt have a front plate on at the time. Well the cops harrased me for 45 min i gave them a pbs card they ripped it up and threw it in my face and threatened to toe my car beacuse i didnt have my insurance card beacuse i didnt receve it in the mail. but i had my temoary plates with me . so they said they were so nice that they gave my reckless driving 4 points for getting to close to my friend which i wasnt it.now im gonna fight this and file a harrasment charge against the two cops that were treating me like a lowlife. Also when they walked away they called my a spoiled punk kid that deserve to drive my car.

Sounds like you got a cop having a bad day who wishes he drove a car like you...

If you were following your friend and you contest it (and go to court) then you should definately take him along or get some kind of affidavit as to what he witnessed.

Either that or perhaps you guys were having a little fun and it wasn't all innocent following? (maybe they had been following you for a while and you did something that tweaked a nerve?)

Either way sounds like they treated you quite unprofessionally, you should write it all down while it's still fresh in your memory - documentation is what wins cases. Cops should get lessons on how not to let their emotions get in the way of their duty (which is to be fair, since they have the ultimate power). Not sure if you can/should make a report at the station or something, perhaps this cop has a history of being an @ss and his supervisor might appreciate the extra information?

Good luck!

Simon.
(not a lawyer.. hell, not even a citizen!)

Maybe they harrassed you because they were annoyed by those pictures of your car jacked up without wheels?

Originally posted by Lex
Maybe they harrassed you because they were annoyed by those pictures of your car jacked up without wheels?





lol

Originally posted by Lex
Maybe they harrassed you because they were annoyed by those pictures of your car jacked up without wheels?

That's friggin hysterical!

Not trying to judge you, so please don't take offense, but....

Based on some of your past posts, do you think maybe things got a little hairy with the cops because you gave them some 'tude?

4 pts and reckless op is usually reserved for people doing crazy stuff and drunks who have a good (and expensive) lawyer.

Whether the cop was having a bad day or not, I've never known one (and I know plenty of them...all of them love the 8) who would give out a reckless op without some very good reason or some severe provocation.

Have you had any other "run-ins" with them in the past? If so, what for?

Still, I'd take it to court, be on my very, very best behavior. I would be very appologetic to the judge/magistrate, promise I wouldn't do anything ever again and HOPE that they reduce the offense to something more pallatable like "following too close".

reckless ops are rarely dismissed entirely.

BTW....what's a "pbs card"?

Police Benevolent Society obviously they didnt think he was a member. :)

Originally posted by eclps0
they said i was tailgating my friend ( my friend saw my headlights so i no i wasnt tailgaiting)

Your definition of tailgating obviously differs from the legal definition. Your friend could see your headlights even if you're only 2 car lengths behind him. At any speed over 20 mph, 2 car lengths is not sufficient separation, and a cop could easily justify a charge of following too closely (ie tailgating). You'd better look up the regs before you try to challenge that one - if you show up with your buddy and say "he could see my headlights", you're going to lose.

Regards,
Gordon

i was only follwing my friend i was going 48 in a 45. My freind swore to me that he saw my lights and i wasnt on his ass.i just got off with police deparment this guy has history of harasiing teens.Also they moved my court hearing to Winter break so i can go and fight the ticket.

ps maybe it was those crappy pics that i took. got the cop pissed off ....:confused:

AHH i know what the problem is his wife is F**king someone at go go rama. LOL

Originally posted by eclps0
i was only follwing my friend i was going 48 in a 45. My freind swore to me that he saw my lights and i wasnt on his ass.i just got off with police deparment this guy has history of harasiing teens.Also they moved my court hearing to Winter break so i can go and fight the ticket.

ps maybe it was those crappy pics that i took. got the cop pissed off ....:confused:

AHH i know what the problem is his wife is F**king someone at go go rama. LOL

Just a suggestion because you're going to do what you're going to do, but take that kind of stance in court and you will lose.

I've never known any police dept. to not support their own. You can try to take the harassment route, but that's not going to win any fans in court. Clearly, the police will use the whole "pbs" thing against you, too. They can use it as a way to say you were in the wrong and tried to "wiggle" out of it by presenting it.

Should be an interesting hearing in any event.

Do yourself a favor....until your hearing, go 5 MPH under the speed limit, stay at least 100 yards behind any car, leave your stereo turned down, don't cross any yellow/white lines, don't go anywhere near a strip club (any club, for that matter)....stay within the strictest sense of the traffic laws.....

I'd bet you are in the "bullseye" of your entire community's police force right now. They'll be looking to add to the charges already pending. Your local constables are looking for any reason to lift your license, tow your car and send your insurance rates through the roof.

'Dunno, but I get the strange feeling there's much more to this story than what you're posting.

Tailgating, I discovered, can be determined this way:

While sitting in the driver's seat, make sure you can still see the street between you and the car in front of you when stopped.

This is what they teach in driving school anyway.

When you drive a car like an RX-8 you will most certainly bring attention to yourself.

Being 19, (which was the age I was when I got my brand new RX-7) leaves you in a vulnerable position. From past experience, it is best to make yourself as inconspicuous as possible. Don't race; drive fast, no swerving in and out of traffic or anything. I know it sucks, but when you are 19, you get hassled.

Another tip, get your windows tinted as much as possible, hopefully hide your age a bit. Don't put shit on your car like neon lights and whale tails and for god sakes, don't wear your ball cap backwards... a dead punk ass giveaway.

I hope you are able to fight those tickets and with a low profile, possibly avoid any further incidents.

Good Luck

The cop pulled me over beacuse he said my radio was to high and i was tailgating my friend. After i explained what i was doing thats when he statred treating me like dirt. Im not a rude person and i respect police officers i have 3 faimly members that are cops and alot of freinds that are cops. they have hard enough days i was being as nice and respectful as possible. i Also gave him my grandfathers police pba, and told him that my grandfather was a cop and said so what this isnt his town. I truly dont think i did anything wrong i have been driving for two years with no tickets or points. this si my first ticket which i dont think i deserve.

maybe the people on this board dont like me but dont judge me till ya know me that also goes for everyone.

Originally posted by RodsterinFL
Tailgating, I discovered, can be determined this way:

While sitting in the driver's seat, make sure you can still see the street between you and the car in front of you when stopped.

This is what they teach in driving school anyway.

i saw the road, his rear tires, his plates i know i wasnt tail gating how can a cop that was a couple cars behind me, say i was tailgating when he wanst even close enough to see the car in front me. Like i said this is my first ticket and last i drive very responible i dont go in out of cars, i go 5 mph over but thats about it. i dont street race its a waste of time and money (u want to race thats why they have tracks). im not saying im mister clean or whatever that i dont do bad things. but nothing worse than the regular driver.

maybe the people on this board dont like me but dont judge me till ya know me that also goes for everyone.

I would like to go on record as saying; "I do not dislike or judge anyone on this forum."

In New Jersey anything goes with the police. I got pulled over by a cop in Wayne when I was a kid just because I had long hair. I was working at a factory at the time with a load of metal in the bed of my truck. I wasn't speeding. I wasn't doing anything. He harassed me when I asked him the charge. He then threatened to take me "for a ride from which I would not return". I have yet to figure out what the hell that meant. He hassled me for an hour on the side of the road and strip searched me on the side of the road after having searched the entire truck. He then told me that he was going to be very nice and not give me a ticket. The only nice thing about the experience was a black man in a Cadillac who pulled over, and asked if I needed any help with the police and that if I was in trouble. I said yes, and asked him to take my plate and description in case anything happened.

Kid, there are people who are never going to understand what it means to drive a car in New Jersey. Fight it if you want. I hope that you win, but I don't believe that this was your fault, and I don't think that anything will ever change in New Jersey.

Originally posted by Haze
In New Jersey anything goes with the police. I got pulled over by a cop in Wayne when I was a kid just because I had long hair. I was working at a factory at the time with a load of metal in the bed of my truck. I wasn't speeding. I wasn't doing anything. He harassed me when I asked him the charge. He then threatened to take me "for a ride from which I would not return". I have yet to figure out what the hell that meant. He hassled me for an hour on the side of the road and strip searched me on the side of the road after having searched the entire truck. He then told me that he was going to be very nice and not give me a ticket. The only nice thing about the experience was a black man in a Cadillac who pulled over, and asked if I needed any help with the police and that if I was in trouble. I said yes, and asked him to take my plate and description in case anything happened.

Kid, there are people who are never going to understand what it means to drive a car in New Jersey. Fight it if you want. I hope that you win, but I don't believe that this was your fault, and I don't think that anything will ever change in New Jersey.

Totally agree. Remember the NJ Turnpike Fiasco a few years back??

Still, it seems everyone has a beef with you, "General"? This and those guys vandalizing your car, what's the deal? Are you a wise guy or do you just have bad luck? :confused:

Originally posted by RodsterinFL
Tailgating, I discovered, can be determined this way:

While sitting in the driver's seat, make sure you can still see the street between you and the car in front of you when stopped.

This is what they teach in driving school anyway.

Sure, that's what they teach as the appropriate distance to stop behind a vehicle when stopped at a light or in traffic!!! That's an appropriate distance when your vehicle is not moving - it certainly does not apply when you are moving!

For moving vehicles, an appropriate following distance is estimated using the 2 second rule. If you're doing 45 mph, then in 2 seconds you cover 132 feet. If your car is 12 feet long, then an appropriate following distance at 45 mph is 11 car lengths (the same as 132 feet). eclps0, if you weren't 11 car lengths behind your friend (just as a guess, I'd bet you were maybe 3 or 4 lengths behind), then you can't win on that charge.

Yeah, it's a bit bogus, because how many people can keep a 2 second separation in busy traffic? A cop could write up 95% of vehicles for following too closely in rush hour if they wanted!

If you want to go to court to dispute a charge - you'd better make damn sure that you've looked up the relevant acts and statutes and understand them.

Regards,
Gordon

You may want to get a lawyer, I have a feeling you are going to *sound* like you are making up excuses, even if they are true, it may not sound that way. From the posts by you i've read so far (life's story in the sig ;) ) I get this really bad vision of you telling the judge what happened, please get a lawyer, i think it will help.

PS. cops started leaving me alone more it seems since i grew facial hair.

PPS. I really hate lawyers, but in this case it may be helpfull.

Originally posted by Lex
Maybe they harrassed you because they were annoyed by those pictures of your car jacked up without wheels?

Still laughing at this one. Sometimes police are perceptive.

For everyone that gets a moving violation.

www.ticketassassin.com

2 of my friends have used the information on this site to get our of tickets, and all through the mail. I am currently using it to fight a ticket of my own.

Nothing works better than being informed. Check your local laws, and use them to your advatage.

BTW, I just completed driving school for a different ticket, 2-3 seconds following distance at normal driving spees, increase to 4 seconds in bad weather or bad road conditions.

You can take the whole drivers safety class online without paying at www.toolazyfortrafficschool.com.

Originally posted by eclps0


...how can a cop that was a couple cars behind me, say i was blah blah blah

they can say anything they want when they are trying to justify pulling you over in the first place. was this a local cop or state police? coming back from a gig at CBGB's in NY to Philly one time i was pulled over by NJ state police. the guy said the reason he pulled me over was that when he had passed me a couple minutes earlier, at @65mph in the rain with a big rig on the other side of me, he thought he smelled pot! now can anyone tell me how that would be possible? they seperated us on the side of the road and asked us a bunch of questions, asked to search the car which they did. must of asked each of us about 6 times if we had been drinking or smoking pot. we hadn't been doing anything but driving home from a late gig. after about 45 minutes they let us go and sped off to get someone else. i think the only reason they pulled us in the first place was because we were from out of state.

You have really bad luck with CARS eclps0

It is wise to express humilty and respect when dealing with officers of the law. Argumentative behavior will not substantiate your plight. Turn your hat around and say yes sir, punk.

Im going to fight this even if i get thr amount doubled i just dont want any points. i pay 3500 a year for full coverage, also im on my moms insurance to. Ohh well ya got to love NJ.

...this makes me think of my friend who got a traffic ticket and went to court. Mind you now, he's pretty smart most of the time.

He gets in front of the judge when called, after listening to other violaters of the law and says, "So did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?"

Judge: "one more word out of you and I'll have you for contempt of court, now see the baliff."

....lucky.

I figure, anytime you are pulled over, it is as good as gold or a very good chance, the officer has already decided in his mind to write the ticket. My response is my only chance in getting out of it.

...let's see, what type of reaction and attitude are going to give me the best chances in getting out of this ticket?

'tude?....I think this is a sure reaction to disaster!

respect and being polite and acting innocent?....better chance doing that.

..go get a suit and tie (no tennis shoes please) when you appear in court. Act out being someone else so you can get what you want; off the hook.

Why would anyone decide from the start that they are even willing to pay "double" just to prove a point. Do you know what the judge can do to you? I could cost way more than "double". We may all have rights in our country, but when you stand before "your honor", you better show respect or they'll just put you in jail for a day or two.

...say, how many other people in jail think it's someone else's fault? ALOT!

Sometimes saying "you were right and I was wrong" could potentially be the best words spoken.

Of course you do have the right to remain silent...I've done that to.

Okay, I've ranted and I apoligize...I just think it really is worth something to act a different way sometimes to get the result you want.

Don't you think maybe the police wish they could drive a car something like yours? I'll bet they were entertained with your emotion; I've seen that too.

The Bible says: "A soft answer turns away wrath"

sermon over - good luck...and more than good luck (see above)

Originally posted by Haze
In New Jersey anything goes with the police.

Kid, there are people who are never going to understand what it means to drive a car in New Jersey. Fight it if you want. I hope that you win, but I don't believe that this was your fault, and I don't think that anything will ever change in New Jersey.

hey eclps0 --

good luck on your court appearance. come prepared with the exact distance you were from the car in front of you and the speed you were travelling. the judge will ask you this. if you contest the ticket in Jersey courts, they will at least reduce the fine that they assess on you. I love Jersey...

Originally posted by jimbo_gixxer


hey eclps0 --

good luck on your court appearance. come prepared with the exact distance you were from the car in front of you and the speed you were travelling. the judge will ask you this. if you contest the ticket in Jersey courts, they will at least reduce the fine that they assess on you. I love Jersey...
thanyou i wont be in court till about nov i got the court date pushed back till nov instead of oct 10.

was it a State Trooper or a local town/city PD ?

I'll be surprised if you win in court
its tough to do

it was local cop not a state tropper. wait a sec can a cop give u a ticket out of his own town. Because i was in keyport and the cop was from sariaville.

ps dont mind spelling

I'm not sure what the rules are in the USA but in Canada the arresting officer must make themselves available for your court appearance so that you may direct questions towards them.

I got out of a ticket once because the cop decided not to show up. I patiently waited for my turn, they called my name, I stood up then the crown said officer So and So is not available, we would like to dismiss the charges against Mr. S..... The judge looked at me and said Mr. S... you are free to leave, all charges have been dropped. All the hours of rehearsal and planning on what I was going to say and do vansihed in a moment. I was disappointed that I didn't get to speak, but happy that I was not going to have to pay anything or see my insurance rates go up.

Having said all this.. Do the USA cops have to be there for the appearance, because if he's from out of town, there is a good chance he won't be there.

Insurance WILL GO UP substantially if you are convicted on any moving violation being a teen, no matter how much your mother is paying now. Reckless op conviction will most certainly make you uninsurable, at any price, if you're a teen. The courts know this. That makes license suspension a given if convicted on a reckless op charge. Past that, even after you serve the suspension, you still won't be able to be insured.

No insurance, no more driving any car, let alone the RX8.

While a cop may or may not show up in court for a trial on a parking or speeding ticket....I'd bet they'd make it a point to show up for a reckless op case involving a teenager.

Tread very lightly (and politely) with this issue.

It is also true that in the United States the officer must show to state his case. In this case, I would bet that he WILL show. He seemed pretty peeved.

I'm not sure if an officer can write a ticket outside of his town. That varies from locality to locality. If he shows, I'm sure that the court will accept his ticket so don't hang your hat on that argument.

As for insurance, New Jersey used to have an assigned risk pool which would keep insurance on the most uninsurable drivers. This was created when they mandated insurance for all drivers to make sure that all drivers would be able to get insurance. He will be assigned to the pool. The cost of that is astronomical. My brother was put in the pool for a while when he was in his early twenty's and he could basically rebuy his car every two years, and he was driving a late model SAAB, not a junker. Avoiding increased insurance rates would be a good thing.

There really isn't a down side to arguing the case. At worste he will be forced to pay the ticket and get the points, which is where he stands now. If he brings his friend in as a witness, he has a chance, but he needs to know the standard under New Jersey law for what "tailgating" is. Best of luck.

General,
Bring the army, that should get you out of it. :D

Originally posted by revhappy
General,
Bring the army, that should get you out of it. :D
even if i have to say that i was tailgating and plead guilty. i just want two get the points off so i have a clean record.

I don't suppose you have a lawyer yet? You know, one that specialises in traffic offenses? If not - WHY NOT????? You obviously don't know enough about this to successfully defend yourself (no offense intended, just stating the facts), and it's obviously important to try to get off or avoid getting the points from this. Any money you spend on a good traffic lawyer will be far less than the ultimate cost when (not if) you lose trying to defend yourself.

Get a lawyer - sooner, rather than later.

Regards,
Gordon

reckless op is 4 pts. In my state, that gets a teen's license suspended. With 4 pts on your record being a teen, you're uninsurable. No insurance, no driving, regardless if you lose you're license or not.

Even if you plea it down to "following too closely" I'll assume per your posts that you're at least getting two points. Insurance is headed way up (if you can get it at all) with 2 pts on any teen's record.

Not trying to "bum" you here. But, I think you're in a bit more "hot water" than you realize.

Two thoughts.. Get a laywer and do what he says.. Secondly, look professional and don't open your mouth. The way you present yourself will effect the court. ...Possibly why you are in this mess in the first place. Good luck.

he gave careless driving which is 2 points in nj if u show up they knock off two points butjack up the charge. so i wont get any points but will pay more money which is better than having points.

Originally posted by eclps0
he gave careless driving which is 2 points in nj if u show up they knock off two points butjack up the charge. so i wont get any points but will pay more money which is better than having points.

You sure about that?

It sounds like specualtion that doesn't make any sense. What you're saying is the only way the 2 points stick to your record is if you don't show up. If you don't show up, I'd bet they would issue an order for your arrest in addition to the charges you already have.

They "up the charge" if you do show up buy no points are issued?

That makes even less sense.

Being a teen, with two points, you're going to have a tough time getting insured. If you are lucky enough to find a "high risk" company who will insure you, the cost is going to be astronomical.

I agree, it sounds like you're going to need a lawyer, if for nothing more than to explain what's really happening.

Just one other thought....if you by chance find a company who will insure you, your mother is going to be paying about 3X the rate she's paying now for you.

In nj u can plead guitl and show up to court and get two points taken off but pay more than double. or u can take the two points and pay the min.

These guys are right about hiring an attorney and looking respectable in court. You'll be surprised at how grungy most of these defendants (even in traffice cases) look like. Always be polite and civil. Good luck!