Hey, I'm looking into getting a few items to increase the braking and resistance to fade in the RX-8 during track days.

My requirements for new pads are:

1. Needs to be used on both the street and track (so no swaping before race day)
2. I live in canada, so they are going to have to be used in sub zero temps
3. I would like to retain stock braking system, aside from s/s lines, and dot 4 brake fluid.

I've looked up some possibilities, but am unsure as to how successful buyers have been, any experience would help.

Hawk HP Plus, Carbotech Panther Plus are proven options for track/street application.
They take to track sustained heat and are streetable. Drawback is that they dust plenty and are harsher on rotors than a street pad (I can live with that given their flexibility of track/street use). I've had success with HP Plus on the track- no fade. I also use them because I don't like to have to swap pads after an event. They're also not nearly as loud on the RX8 as they are on other cars which I have used them on.

Some guys here are reporting success with the Hawk Performance Ceramic pad (which is supposed to dust less and easier on rotors), as a street/track pad. I can't comment on this pad since I haven't used it.

Also, pivotal in resisting fade is a good fluid. Typical is Motul RBF 600 or ATE SuperBlue, etc. Castrol Syntec off the shelf fluid works decently also. Bleed the day before your track event.

Yeah, fluid to resist the heat, and lines to resist expansion will definatly aid in fade resistance. I was looking into the Project Mu HC pads, or the Endless CCR as well. The problem ive noticed with the Hawk Pads, is they specify "not for track use".

Anyone running either the CCR or HC on stock rotors?

I ran Porterfields 4S last year doing double duty. They worked well but we don't really get subzero temps here in Texas. Only thing was that they produce a lot of dust on the track with heavy braking.

I'll be running EBC Red for street duty and Yellows in the fronts for track duty this year.

Yeah, fluid to resist the heat, and lines to resist expansion will definatly aid in fade resistance. I was looking into the Project Mu HC pads, or the Endless CCR as well. The problem ive noticed with the Hawk Pads, is they specify "not for track use".

Anyone running either the CCR or HC on stock rotors?
HP Plus are for track use ;). They've held up really well at the track days I've attended- taking late threshold braking with no problems. No fade whatsoever.

Here's a typical marketing note associated with the HP Plus compound:

HP Plus Compound
HP Plus can take the heat at the track and get you home safely without having to change your brake pads in and out. This compound was designed for the serious street and autocross enthusiast. Warning! Due to the dramatic friction levels produced by this product to achieve “Race Level” braking, rotor wear, noise, dust and pad life may be affected. The HP Plus compound is perfect for street driven cars that are used for HPDE and Time Trial track events.

I may be wrong but EBC yellows aren't available for the 8 yet. As far as the Mu HC+, I looked into those too but the Hawk HP+ have the same temp ratings, are readily available and cost less than half as much.

Project Mu HC+ pads for street and track use are good

http://www.project-mu.co.jp/e/product/hc-plus.html

sorry guys, I must have been confused about the HP+. thought I read somewhere they are not for the "track". Looks like they are made specially for street, and a few track days thrown in. Any information on rotor wear, and noise? For either the Project Mu, or Hawk. Also what temps can the hawk reach?

I had HP+ on my last car. Worked ok on the tight track I ran. Work ok for the street too; that is until winter came, where it ate my rotors for lunch, and then dinner. Since you're in Tornoto, I wouldn't use them for the street. They get dusty and noisy as well.

How about the Carbotech Bobcat? I've heard good things about them and they go up to 900 deg. Carbotech doesn't recommend them for track use, but the 900 deg may be able handle it if you take cool down laps between fast laps.

They have yellows for the 8. DP41665R part number.

I run Hawk HP+ front/back...good bite...worked pretty damn well at the HPDE I was at...drove em home...they are dusty and do squeal during low speed braking tho...

I was going to move to hawk ceramics after I burn thru these...

I had HP+ on my last car. Worked ok on the tight track I ran. Work ok for the street too; that is until winter came, where it ate my rotors for lunch, and then dinner. Since you're in Tornoto, I wouldn't use them for the street. They get dusty and noisy as well.

How about the Carbotech Bobcat? I've heard good things about them and they go up to 900 deg. Carbotech doesn't recommend them for track use, but the 900 deg may be able handle it if you take cool down laps between fast laps.

I have run Bobcats on the back and XP8s on the front for all my HPDEs except the first one per suggestion from DPE (forum vendor who is very helpful). They stopped me consistently and rapidly with no fade ever - period.

If you want some XP8s look in the for sale section... :wink2:

anyone with any other opinions, I guess the HP+ is ruled out for sub zero temps, what about project Mu, endless CCR or SSS, or mazdaspeed even?

^
Because of your extreme temp conditions, it looks like you're best bet is to swap pads out for track events so that you can use a street pad for daily driving. Might as well run a true track pad at the track if that's the case.

I've been happy with the Axxis Ultimates on the track and street.

I live in toronto as well, and haven't had any problems running the HP+ on the street in colder weather.

I think ive narrowed it down to the Porterfield R4-S and the Hawk ceramic. Any comments on either, both street and track use?

I had the R4-S. They are really good pads but they dust heavily at the track. They work well at the track and on the street. Past 60% wear I would not run them at the track though. Heat bleeds through and you'll get fade.

I'm pretty rough on my pads and I have a track event almost once a month. They lasted 3.5 events and I had almost no pad left.

is the dust corrossive? I really dont like that the HP+ has been ruining the finish on wheels. I only track my car for fun with friends a couple times a season, but my last outing I experienced huge brake fade, thus im looking for a better street pad, that can handle the racetrack.

Usually I prefer to keep my racing separate from my street car.

The dust from all Carbotech pads are non-corrosive.

FS

The dust from the Portfield is corrosive. Ask me how I know ... go ahead.

If someone finds a -have your cake and eat it too- track/street pad that doesn't dust, make noise and damage the finish of your wheels without fading at the track while being perfectly streetable, please let me know. ;)

I'd really like to see someone with the Hawk Ceramic pads

Looks like I'll be getting the Hawk Ceramics sooner than I thought...me thinks I've been "testing" a little much lately...

If someone finds a -have your cake and eat it too- track/street pad that doesn't dust, make noise and damage the finish of your wheels without fading at the track while being perfectly streetable, please let me know. ;)

I know what your saying, all im looking for is the most user freindly (least amount of noise/dust/rotor wear) pad that can take the track abuse and heat well. From what ive been reading, the hawk ceramics or porterfields could be that route

I know what your saying, all im looking for is the most user freindly (least amount of noise/dust/rotor wear) pad that can take the track abuse and heat well. From what ive been reading, the hawk ceramics or porterfields could be that route

Give the Performance Ceramics a shot. I'd like to know how they do as well. The HP Plus dust is eating through the finish on my wheels.

^
Because of your extreme temp conditions, it looks like you're best bet is to swap pads out for track events so that you can use a street pad for daily driving. Might as well run a true track pad at the track if that's the case.

I agree, swapping front pads will take you about 30 min. That's what I do. I run carbotech bobcats in the year all the time. OEM fronts for the streets and Carbotech XP-8's in the front for the track. These pads are incredible on the track. Highly recommend them.

I'm also in Toronto. Last year I used Hawk HP+ and HPS for the rears. Lots of reddish brake dust but no problem in cold weather. However, I definitely feel the stock pads are much better than HP+. I have never had a problem with fading since I switched to DOT 4 fluid, doesn't matter the pad. This year I've gotten the Mazdaspeed pads and they felt great at Mosport.

+1 Mazdaspeed pads
I have gone thru 2 sets at the track
and like them. I am considering trying Cobalt pads
XR2/XR3

+1 Mazdaspeed pads
I have gone thru 2 sets at the track
and like them. I am considering trying Cobalt pads
XR2/XR3

If you go with the Cobalts put XR5s in the rear, XR2s up front www.cobaltfriction.com I have used them on 2 cars with good results at the track. Keep the dust cleaned off after track use.

Give the Performance Ceramics a shot. I'd like to know how they do as well. The HP Plus dust is eating through the finish on my wheels.

they dont work at all. dead after first session. :(

and all the deglazing will not bring them back.

beers :beer:

If you go with the Cobalts put XR5s in the rear, XR2s up front www.cobaltracing.com I have used them on 2 cars with good results at the track. Keep the dust cleaned off after track use.

i think this might help.

http://www.cobaltfriction.com/

but nice motorcycle site.:) and jim you have a pm.

beers :beer:

Sorry I listed the Cobalt site wrong above. I have edited it now. The correct website for Cobalt brakes is www.cobaltfriction.com . You can order direct from them by their toll free number 1-877-562-9237. I'm getting old and senile.:Eyecrazy:

they dont work at all. dead after first session. :(

and all the deglazing will not bring them back.

beers :beer:

are you talking about hawks ceramic? they dont work well on a track?

how do they compareto hps and hp+ in your opinion?

I'm still looking for the best street/track compromise pads...

I was going to choose Ceramic Hawks but would like to get some good pads for track use

How are the Project MU NS or B-Force dust/noise wise?

are you talking about hawks ceramic? they dont work well on a track?

how do they compareto hps and hp+ in your opinion?

I'm still looking for the best street/track compromise pads...

I was going to choose Ceramic Hawks but would like to get some good pads for track use

How are the Project MU NS or B-Force dust/noise wise?


yes,

i was talking about the hawk ceramics..

they might be fine on the street? they dust less. but fail huge at the track. but they are not designed to do track..

cant answer most of your questions. the pads i had before were the axxis ultimates. they stood up to med track duty well..

fronts dusted the same as stock. rears dusted more. but great pads..

beers :beer: