Well I tried to swap out for some ATE Super Blue in prep for a track day this weekend...

In the end, soft brakes.

I had a couple questions about the process:

1) When we started flushing the right rear and left rear, we used the manual pump method and watched for blue fluid. However, only the passenger side of the master cylinder reservior changed to blue. It wasn't until we started flushing the front brakes that the driver side of the reservoir converted to blue. I thought the opposite corner are tied together, but apparently front and rear are separate?

2) Related to #1, I see a hose from the reservior to the clutch slave cylinder. I did NOT bleed the clutch. If the clutch and brakes share the same reservoir, do I need to bleed the clutch? I am not sure the effects of mixed fluid (ie reservoir filled with DOT4 Blue but clutch lines have DOT3). ANSWER: NO NEED TO BLEED CLUTCH, AS DOT 3 AND DOT 4 ARE COMPATIBLE.

3) Has there been any confirmation of the need to bleed the MC on 05+ cars. As many other threads mention, the 05 and later models do not appear to have a bleeder screw. B/C of this, I just bled in the RR, LR, FR, FL order. Unfortunately, I have a soft pedal so we are going to try again tonight (assuming we let air in at some point in the flushing process).

4) Has anyone been successful at bleeding their brakes while leaving the wheels on? There is a few inches in there to work... Definately would be more convenient.

Any help would be appreciated!

My '05 has the MC bleeder screw, I still had hard brakes prior to ever bleeding it ...

Don't know why people have brake bleeding issues on this car though. I've always done it the same as any other car and never had a problem :dunno:

front and rear have a separator in the reservoir, based on what you posted it sounds like you may have drained one side down and sucked air into the MC. You're suppose to keep the MC near full when bleeding, which means constantly adding fluid if you don't use a pressure bleeder. I do it the manual single-man way ....

Manual single man way? Do you use speed bleeders or something?

Or he has really long arms and legs :D: LOL

4) Has anyone been successful at bleeding their brakes while leaving the wheels on? There is a few inches in there to work... Definately would be more convenient.

Any help would be appreciated!

With speed bleeders I do it w/the wheels on - It's a bit tight getting the my arm & wrench in there esp in back, but it's definitely doable. Front is cake. Also depends a bit on the style of wheelspokes you have. ;)

I didn't realize the MC bleeder was gone(?)

^^ It seemed to disappear mid 2005? I have an 04 with one...and an 05 for a spare.................without it.

i am getting ready to do a rotor / pad / paint calipers / change fluid / ss lines swap..

i just picked up a one man bleeder from mac tools, i will give a review when done... works like a speed bleeder, but you just do one brake at a time..

beers :beer:

Manual single man way? Do you use speed bleeders or something?


I use the old timer original speed bleeder method ;)

run a tube out of the caliper to several inches above the highest spot on the caliper, and then down into tall, narrow container. Open the bleeder, then get in the car and push the brake pedal down. Release slowly, and then repeat as many times as necessary to bleed the amount you want. This works beause there is always a certain amount of fluid trapped above the bleed screw in the tube part that goes up several inches and the fluid flows the easiest direction, which is to fill the MC piston areafrom the reservior rather than pulling it all the way back from the caliper. Been doing it this way for over 20 yrs ...

You can even bleed by gravity (no pumping) if you're patient and have a lot of time nbecause the MC reservoir is higher than the caliper; the brake fluid will flow from the reservoir and through the system, albeit slowly.

I personally would prefer a MC with the bleed screw. If you ever do need to bleed the MC it is infinitely easier and cleaner with the bleed screw

I use the old timer original speed bleeder method ;)

run a tube out of the caliper to several inches above the highest spot on the caliper, and then down into tall, narrow container. Open the bleeder, then get in the car and push the brake pedal down. Release slowly, and then repeat as many times as necessary to bleed the amount you want. This works beause there is always a certain amount of fluid trapped above the bleed screw in the tube part that goes up several inches and the fluid flows the easiest direction, which is to fill the MC piston areafrom the reservior rather than pulling it all the way back from the caliper. Been doing it this way for over 20 yrs ...

You can even bleed by gravity (no pumping) if you're patient and have a lot of time nbecause the MC reservoir is higher than the caliper; the brake fluid will flow from the reservoir and through the system, albeit slowly.

I personally would prefer a MC with the bleed screw. If you ever do need to bleed the MC it is infinitely easier and cleaner with the bleed screw

I like TeamRX8's method. Can anyone think of a negative to this method? Worst thing I can think of is it might use up a little more brake fluid, which is a pretty minor negative IMO.

Also, when I bleed the rear brakes, should I release the emergency brake? Does it matter?

i havent bled brakes in a long time. this is going to be a little challenging for me. im just going to flush the entire system. what fluid? castrol _____ for tracking?

People are saying here and elsewhere online that Castrol SRF is absolutely in a class by itself, even better than Motul Blue. Apparently SRF is higher than Motul in both dry and wet boiling points and doesn't have to be changed nearly as often, but SRF costs a lot.

I believe even for tracking, as long as you are willing to bleed often, people are saying Valvoline SynPower is the best bang for the buck. I have compared the data for a bunch of brake fluids and I have decided to get SynPower, although I will never track my car.

I like TeamRX8's method. Can anyone think of a negative to this method? Worst thing I can think of is it might use up a little more brake fluid, which is a pretty minor negative IMO.

bump this question.

Can anyone advise on the question?

Also, when I bleed the rear brakes, should I release the emergency brake? Does it matter?

Bump the question.

Can anyone advise?

If you have 2 people you can bleed your brakes. And yes you can bleed your brakes with the wheels on you just have to jack up that side to give you a little more room. And make sure whiule bleeding the brakes that the fluid is always full to not get air in the lines and soft brake pedal

People are saying here and elsewhere online that Castrol SRF is absolutely in a class by itself, even better than Motul Blue. Apparently SRF is higher than Motul in both dry and wet boiling points and doesn't have to be changed nearly as often, but SRF costs a lot.

I believe even for tracking, as long as you are willing to bleed often, people are saying Valvoline SynPower is the best bang for the buck. I have compared the data for a bunch of brake fluids and I have decided to get SynPower, although I will never track my car.

thanks. i couldnt remember the name

Well I tried to swap out for some ATE Super Blue in prep for a track day this weekend...

In the end, soft brakes.

I had a couple questions about the process:

1) When we started flushing the right rear and left rear, we used the manual pump method and watched for blue fluid. However, only the passenger side of the master cylinder reservior changed to blue. It wasn't until we started flushing the front brakes that the driver side of the reservoir converted to blue. I thought the opposite corner are tied together, but apparently front and rear are separate?

Front and rear are seperate in the event that you have a leak on one line, you will loose either the front braking or the rear braking, but not both.

2) Related to #1, I see a hose from the reservior to the clutch slave cylinder. I did NOT bleed the clutch. If the clutch and brakes share the same reservoir, do I need to bleed the clutch? I am not sure the effects of mixed fluid (ie reservoir filled with DOT4 Blue but clutch lines have DOT3). ANSWER: NO NEED TO BLEED CLUTCH, AS DOT 3 AND DOT 4 ARE COMPATIBLE.

You need to bleed the clutch if the master cylinder went empty at any time. It let air into the system and this can result in a soft clutch or a clutch that doesn't fully disengauge upon pressing down the pedal

3) Has there been any confirmation of the need to bleed the MC on 05+ cars. As many other threads mention, the 05 and later models do not appear to have a bleeder screw. B/C of this, I just bled in the RR, LR, FR, FL order. Unfortunately, I have a soft pedal so we are going to try again tonight (assuming we let air in at some point in the flushing process).

Hopefully not. Air in the master cylinder is caused you you letting the level of brake fluid go down in the small plastic resoviour. Its tricky and goes down very fast. I ususally do no more than 7 pumps before I refill it.


4) Has anyone been successful at bleeding their brakes while leaving the wheels on? There is a few inches in there to work... Definately would be more convenient.

Its possible, but brake fluid is very toxic and will dissolve your car's paint and clear coat (not to mention absorbing directly through your skin and into your blood stream)

Change gloves often, try to use neoprene whenever possible.

So the question is not really whether you "can" but rather, can you do it without spilling it on your wheels/paint/yourself

You should take the emergency brake off when bleeding the rear brakes.

Usually you don't want to let the level of brake fluid go 1/4 of an inch below the "L" line at all costs. If it was ever 1/4 below the line its safe to assume that you have air in the system.

Usually you don't want to let the level of brake fluid go 1/4 of an inch below the "L" line at all costs. If it was ever 1/4 below the line its safe to assume that you have air in the system.

Interesting you say that because in a lot of the bleeding brakes threads (I must have read about 8 of them), some people say they suck out as much of the brake fluid in the reservoir as they can before adding in the new brake fluid. And I'm not talking about only people who do a full flush.

What I can say about my own experience is when I did my brake pads and pushed the caliper pistons in and the brake fluid in the reservoir went way up, I sucked out a lot of the fluid, way under the full line. But when I finished all the brake pads, the level went up again (I did not add any brake fluid) and I assumed everything was great. Now my brake pedal is very mushy and I have to depress very far before I get braking action.

I wonder if air got into my reservoir when the fluid went way down.

Interesting you say that because in a lot of the bleeding brakes threads (I must have read about 8 of them), some people say they suck out as much of the brake fluid in the reservoir as they can before adding in the new brake fluid. And I'm not talking about only people who do a full flush.

What I can say about my own experience is when I did my brake pads and pushed the caliper pistons in and the brake fluid in the reservoir went way up, I sucked out a lot of the fluid, way under the full line. But when I finished all the brake pads, the level went up again (I did not add any brake fluid). Now my brake pedal is very mushy and I have to depress very far before I get braking action.

I wonder if air got into my reservoir when the fluid went way down.

Yeah, they suck the fluid out as much as possible, then they refill it to the top and proceede to bleed their brakes.

If you press the pedal at all when its that low it will gulp air into the system when you release it.

The way they do it is just a pre-operation before even touching the pedal at all.

usually the only time you want to do that is when you are going to do a full flush.

replacing all the fluid in MC + bleeding all the lines = full flush

It isn't a major problem if air gets in, it just means you have to bleed everything again including clutch, time consuming but not a very costly mistake.

Huh, i'm confused, so when did you bleed your brakes again?

Huh, i'm confused, so when did you bleed your brakes again?

Yeah it had occurred to me my last post might cause confusion. I haven't bleeded my brakes yet. When I said "my own experience," I meant changing my brake pads and sucking out some brake fluid in the reservoir.

Thanks for the help. I think I'm close to being ready to bleed the brakes. I also think I'm going to skip the speedbleeders and just do a "one-man bleed" using TeamRX8's method.

Hate to revive this but what do you guys think is the best method of bleeding the brakes on the RX8? I haven't bled them myself in a long time and woudl like to do it from now on.

I like speedbleeders...you just have to keep from reefing on them..they are more fragile than regular bleeders

A power bleeder is nice if you have one...but I have never found they do a better job that you can by hand

In the end they are all the same if you get the old fluid out..and have no air :)

Its pretty easy to bleed ... much faster if you have a helper around to press the brakes for ya.

is there a specific process for the RX8, I read around here the front and rear system are separate. Do any of our vendors carry speed bleeders?

Team's capillary method (look to the beginning of the thread) is the best way, though I suggest you bleed the MC first if you have the bleed screw.

I suggest you bleed the MC first if you have the bleed screw.

I will have to look at my MC to see what you are talkin' about :) Oh, and does our ABS unit need to be bled? I read around that on other cars this needed to be bled separately as well. Thanks.

MM : what sup with your avatar dude, shit scared me. :P

9k : I think they took the bleed screw out, starting 06+ models. I know my 05+ has it, you have a 04 right? so you should have it.

anyway, bleed from MC, then bleed RR, RL, FR, FL. Repeat one more time. You're done.

I used to bleed from closest first, never had a problem, but guys here corrected me (got it from FSM) so ... :)

Dont have to Bleed ABS.

9k : I think they took the bleed screw out, starting 06+ models. I know my 05+ has it, you have a 04 right? so you should have it.

anyway, bleed from MC, then bleed RR, RL, FR, FL. Repeat one more time. You're done.

I used to bleed from closest first, never had a problem, but guys here corrected me (got it from FSM) so ... :)

Dont have to Bleed ABS.

Close- but not exactly complete You could end up with the brake going to the floor if you don't do the last thing...the last MC bleed.

Stupid dealer did this to me when they put my SS brake hoses on and had to drain the system. The didn't do the MC one last time and let me drive off the lot with virtually NO brakes (pedal to the floor). Why they didn't do a road test is amazing in and of itself....but when I asked about how they did the procedure, and as they said no MC at the end, and I showed them the manual.... they said "...really?". I guess dealers don't read service manuals....:dunno:

"Begin air bleeding with the master cyclinder and then continue with the brake caliper that is furthest away from the master cyclinder. Finish by beeding air from the master cyclinder again." ...excerpt from RX-8 Service Manual

PS I'd say the "speed bleeders" are your best bet if you intend to bleed frequently. Makes the assistant job much easier if you use one (wife)!

Close- but not exactly complete You could end up with the brake going to the floor if you don't do the last thing...the last MC bleed.

+1 I didn't do the MC last one time and had a spongy brake pedal.
I bled the MC and the pedal felt much better, so now I too recommend to others that they bleed the MC first AND last.

I never had a problem with that. maybe because I bleed a lot, not just 2-3 pumps each, I go thru like 1-2 quarts of brake fluid each time.

maybe thats why ?

Remember, Later models does not have the MC bleed screw. they dont have a problem. :)

Team,

I tried the one-man method last night on my clutch and my MC. The problem is, despite the fact that I ran my tubing several inches above the MC when I bled it, the fluid would go further back into the bleeder when I released the brake pedal than where it started. The result was that it sucked air in. My solution was to watch the fluid carefully and release the brake pedal very, very slowly, which remedied this for the most part. But on my last pedal stroke I still had to reach over with my foot on the pedal and close the bleeder to prevent sucking air in. I had the same result whether the reservoir cap was on or off. So I have two questions.

1) Was I doing something wrong, such as not opening the bleeder far enough?

2) It seemed that the fluid really didn't get very far up the tube (12"-18") when pushing the brake pedal and came back exactly to the same point (or further back) when I released it. I need to flush the entire system soon. I'm still unclear on whether the one-man method (no speed bleeders) is feasible for flushing the entire braking / clutch system (calipers, clutch slave, MC) in a timely manner. Is it?

Thx

I use the old timer original speed bleeder method ;)

run a tube out of the caliper to several inches above the highest spot on the caliper, and then down into tall, narrow container. Open the bleeder, then get in the car and push the brake pedal down. Release slowly, and then repeat as many times as necessary to bleed the amount you want. This works beause there is always a certain amount of fluid trapped above the bleed screw in the tube part that goes up several inches and the fluid flows the easiest direction, which is to fill the MC piston areafrom the reservior rather than pulling it all the way back from the caliper. Been doing it this way for over 20 yrs ...

You can even bleed by gravity (no pumping) if you're patient and have a lot of time nbecause the MC reservoir is higher than the caliper; the brake fluid will flow from the reservoir and through the system, albeit slowly.

I personally would prefer a MC with the bleed screw. If you ever do need to bleed the MC it is infinitely easier and cleaner with the bleed screw