Looks like I'm the first kid on my block with drilled & slotted brake rotors for my sweet little 8!

Hmm...tried to post an image...no joy...I'll try again...

Here's another attempt at posting a picture of the new rotors...

Cool. OK, here's another one...

i gather you've shot the discs on your rear left.

whose brake discs are these??

Originally posted by wakeech
i gather you've shot the discs on your rear left.
Correct. The others were done as well, but they all look pretty much the same. :)


Originally posted by wakeech
whose brake discs are these??
They were done by Paul at Rotorsport in Santa Clara, CA. He's got a barebones web site under construction at www.renesisracing.com (http://www.renesisracing.com/).

why do your rims have holes in them!?!?

nice brakes BTW

Originally posted by pr0ber
why do your rims have holes in them!?!?



w0w... my rims have holes t00.... when did those get there!!!!

...damn carpenter bees probably :p

Originally posted by pr0ber
...damn carpenter bees probably :p
Damn Japanese alloy-eating carpenter bees, no doubt! :)

Too funny! LOL!!!

Originally posted by foodiedave

Damn Japanese alloy-eating carpenter bees, no doubt! :)

nice
what was the cost if you dont mind. I know a shop in anaheim and they said they would drill my stock ones for 300.


Mazdatrix 8 has slotted and drilled rotors too

Originally posted by mikeb
nice
what was the cost if you dont mind.
Thanks.
I got "special consideration" for demoing their prototype. :)

I'd rather not mention prices and risk incurring the wrath of Elara the Mod. :) Their web site (Renesis Racing) (http://www.renesisracing.com/) has more info...

I know a shop in anaheim and they said they would drill my stock ones for 300.
All four? That sounds pretty decent. Just be sure they know what they're doing. Paul, who did mine, pointed out to me that it's important to design the drill pattern carefully to avoid weakening the ribs between the rotor plates.

Mazdatrix 8 has slotted and drilled rotors too
Cool! The more, the merrier!

Originally posted by foodiedave
All four? That sounds pretty decent. Just be sure they know what they're doing. Paul, who did mine, pointed out to me that it's important to design the drill pattern carefully to avoid weakening the ribs between the rotor plates.

wait, what?? these are just your stock rotors with holes drilled and slots cut into them?? :o hmm... i dunno about that, unless all you cared about was getting the look.

Originally posted by wakeech


wait, what?? these are just your stock rotors with holes drilled and slots cut into them?? :o hmm... i dunno about that, unless all you cared about was getting the look.

I'm with wakeech on this one. I'll wait for production ribbed and drilled rotors to be available. By that time my originals should need replacing :D

Originally posted by foodiedave


I'd rather not mention prices and risk incurring the wrath of Elara the Mod. :) Their web site (Renesis Racing) (http://www.renesisracing.com/) has more info...


Thats funny!!!:D :D :D

I dont want them drilled just for looks
So by taking the stock ones and drilling them is pointless?

I'd rather not mention prices and risk incurring the wrath of Elara the Mod. :) Their web site (Renesis Racing) (http://www.renesisracing.com/) has more info...



There's also a short-shifter kit at that site -- 30% shorter thow than stock. Interesting.

Originally posted by mmm


There's also a short-shifter kit at that site -- 30% shorter thow than stock. Interesting.

WOW like the throw wasn't short enough already ..........

Originally posted by foodiedave
Looks like I'm the first kid on my block with drilled & slotted brake rotors for my sweet little 8!

Was there a problem with the OEM rotors that you're trying to fix by 'upgrading'? All the reviews seem to indicate that the RX-8 brakes are among the strongest on the market, with no fade....

Re drilling stock rotors - it's pretty much guaranteed that if you drive those hard, like on a track, that you'll get cracks and premature failure in them. Even cast hole rotors can have problems with the stress concentrations and heat cycling - drilled rotors are a recipe for disaster.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


Was there a problem with the OEM rotors that you're trying to fix by 'upgrading'?
No, actually, I got them partly as a demo favor for the guy who manufactures them, and partly because I figured the extra cooling effect (however great) couldn't hurt.

And yes, they look kinda cool, too. :)

Re drilling stock rotors - it's pretty much guaranteed that if you drive those hard, like on a track, that you'll get cracks and premature failure in them.
I have no plans to drive them hard on a track, and the drill pattern has been carefully designed to avoid hitting any of the ribs between the rotor plates (as I mentioned above).

Even cast hole rotors can have problems with the stress concentrations and heat cycling - drilled rotors are a recipe for disaster.
Whoa, might want to put the brakes on that hyperbole before it spins outta control.

Virtually every drilled and slotted "sport" rotor (aka street performance rotor) is based on a stock production brake rotor, mostly aftermarket, and in this particular application since there are no aftermarket replacement rotors yet available, are based on stock Mazda OEM pieces.

Every rotor you see for sale on Ebay or elsewhere is based on an original replacement or aftermarket replacement.

Yes, these rotors are very good looking, but they are absolutely functional as well. Everyone knows the theory behind drilling and slotting brake rotors. These rotors are carefully designed and machined to retain full rotor integrity while providing the best features of drilling and slotting. This was done by carefully machining the holes such that they do not penetrate the cooling vanes and properly chamfering them to prevent cracking.

nice first post

Originally posted by renesis_racing
Everyone knows the theory behind drilling and slotting brake rotors.


ah, then i suppose you must as well. enlighten us ingorami who don't... is it soley to decrease the conductive mass of the rotor to increase the impact of heat cycling stress, or also to decrease the area of contact between rotor and pad??

Originally posted by renesis_racing
These rotors are carefully designed and machined to retain full rotor integrity while providing the best features of drilling and slotting. This was done by carefully machining the holes such that they do not penetrate the cooling vanes and properly chamfering them to prevent cracking.

regardless of your marketting rhetoric here, the truth is that cutting or else modifying a CAST metal piece such as these brake rotors wreaks havoc with the naturally formed atomic matrix, hence weakening it. despite your obvious skil and thought in doing so, drilling cast brake rotors has been proven to be counter productive in seeking high-performance.

that aside, they do look cool as hell, but are like the "real deal" only in look. sorry to be so cinical, but i'm tired of people (not necessarily you) trying to pass off rice as high performance :mad:

wakeech
is that a pic of you in your avatar

Originally posted by mikeb
wakeech
is that a pic of you in your avatar

the one and only... lemme guess, you look like me??

i'll let u guys in on a secret... I have an entire real big brake kit coming in - the 1st one in the states to get them actually :). I'll post pics after its installed.

Originally posted by foodiedave


I'd rather not mention prices and risk incurring the wrath of Elara the Mod. :) Their web site (Renesis Racing) (http://www.renesisracing.com/) has more info...



Wow, I must have turned into a real bitch somewhere along the line- :( I need to work on that, I guess.

I don't care if you post prices, websites, pictures, whatever- as long as you don't work for or own the place you're talking up.
______________________________________

Question for you guys who know so much about the drilled brake rotors. This weekend, I saw two new 911's, one turbo and one not. Both had drilled rotors. If they don't have any benefit, why did Porsche include them? They were also on the Viper and ZO6 we saw. And I'm not being sarcastic in any form, I just don't understand the concept here...

waiting for my rotors from project U, not only they have more brake power and better cooling, they are also much lighter which equals less unsprung weight!!!

Originally posted by Elara
This weekend, I saw two new 911's, one turbo and one not. Both had drilled rotors. If they don't have any benefit, why did Porsche include them? They were also on the Viper and ZO6 we saw. And I'm not being sarcastic in any form, I just don't understand the concept here...

compare the sizes of the vehicles to the relative sizes of the brakes: they're lighter cars outfitted with thicker, stronger, larger (dia. and width) rotors. but the biggest consideration is that they are not DRILLED, but CAST with holes already in them. rotors with holes cast in them (and have a structure designed around having perforations) do not run into the same structural problems as these "cross drilled" modified-OE rotors do.

RomanoM, where are you?? set the peoples straight.

Originally posted by Elara
Wow, I must have turned into a real bitch somewhere along the line- :( I need to work on that, I guess.
No! No! I was just trying to stay within the rules, and wasn't sure what goes and what doesn't, exactly, so I decided to say less rather than too much (about prices).

As for the "wrath" comment, sorry, I guess my sarcasm wasn't clear. :)
I don't care if you post prices, websites, pictures, whatever- as long as you don't work for or own the place you're talking up.
Great, thanks for clarifying!

regardless of your marketting rhetoric here, the truth is that cutting or else modifying a CAST metal piece such as these brake rotors wreaks havoc with the naturally formed atomic matrix, hence weakening it. despite your obvious skil and thought in doing so, drilling cast brake rotors has been proven to be counter productive in seeking high-performance.

True. There is a grain pattern that flows with the shape of a casting. If a solid piece is machined, it cuts through and distrupts the grain. It's is complicated by the fact that the impact of the cutting tools will most likely distrupt the hardening of the surface [.001"] if it is not annealed first. That doesn't sound like much, but the the slight change in metalurgical properties gets ugly during the constant heat cycling of a rotor. Then you will see cracks at the holes going outward. The rotor is probably not going to fall apart anytime soon with street driving, but if your only street driving there is VERY little benifit to drilling your rotors other than getting the Porche look.

I work on and with 911's alot. Even the super pricey cast-drilled rotors crack [under race conditions]. It's a balance of performance and reliability. The Porche crowd presumably has better cash-flow than the RX-8 crowd to allow more frequent replacements.

I drive my 8 HARD all the time. Not once have I been braking sooo hard long enough to have significant [or even noticeable] brake fade.

might want to also consider that most drilled and slotted rotors are also freaking huge so they make up for any loss in surface area.

unless you can fade your stock brakes......which i would find pretty hard to do with even fairly aggressive street driving, you should keep them stock.

rotor upgrades would probably come with upgraded pads. higher friction pads make more heat, cross drilled or slotted rotors disappate that heat faster. if you are track/autox enthusiast, upgraded brakes are probably a good investment. if not, proally not worth the cash.

Originally posted by djmano
unless you can fade your stock brakes......which i would find pretty hard to do with even fairly aggressive street driving, you should keep them stock.

rotor upgrades would probably come with upgraded pads. higher friction pads make more heat, cross drilled or slotted rotors disappate that heat faster. if you are track/autox enthusiast, upgraded brakes are probably a good investment. if not, proally not worth the cash.

On my third track day I started to over heat the brakes and ended up with a mushy brake pedal. Bleeding the brakes restored pedal feel but the pads/rotors feel a little glazed.

In defense of the stock setup I have to say that they put up with the high speed abuse of Watkins Glen admirably and they are just coming up a hair short.

So now I'm looking for ways to make the brake system more robust. I think that I'll start my mods with higher temp brake fluid and pads. If that doesn't do the trick the next step IMHO would be larger slotted rotors (http://www.stoptech.com/cgi/Products.cgi?index1=category1&search_on1=Big+Brake+Kits&match1=exact&index2=category2&search_on2=Mazda&match2=exact).

tell me how your brake system upgrades go for you. if i decided to track my car, id also probably opt for the same upgrades as you.

if you were in california speed racer, id want to go tracking with you. ive never gone to actually driven at a track before, but ive been to buttonwillow twice to spectate.

maybe ill go to seca sometime this year if i can get some extra money and time off school and work.

i read somewhere that the slots and holes act to allow gases whic evaporate from the pads to evacuate. it said that these gases noramally get trapped between the pads and rotors causing braking problems. basically it was said that the slots and holes act sort of like the tread on tire, which allow the fluid to escape giving better traction, or in this case braking force.

Originally posted by zoom44
i read somewhere that the slots and holes act to allow gases whic evaporate from the pads to evacuate.

Yup, that was true - 30 years ago! However, modern brake pad compositions no longer have the problems with outgassing when green or when hot that brake pad materials from 20+ years ago did.

Modern brake pads no longer need the holes, but the drilled rotor style caught on - and that's all it is, a style with no performance benefit. Porsche and Ferrari fit them on their top models because their marketing departments tell them that the customers insist on them because of the high-performance image, not because the engineering department says they need them!

Regards,
Gordon

thanks gordon for straightening me out on that. and for the rest of it i think you've got it dead on there. all marketing.

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Yup, that was true - 30 years ago! However, modern brake pad compositions no longer have the problems with outgassing when green or when hot that brake pad materials from 20+ years ago did.

Modern brake pads no longer need the holes, but the drilled rotor style caught on - and that's all it is, a style with no performance benefit. Porsche and Ferrari fit them on their top models because their marketing departments tell them that the customers insist on them because of the high-performance image, not because the engineering department says they need them!

Regards,
Gordon

This is the first post on this thread that I totally believe. It nicely summarizes my thinking.

well there is a slight benefit of slotted rotors with newer pads in that the slots usaually clean the surface of the pad up, especially if you had them hot and glazed over from track use you wouldn't notice a problem.

Anybody knows the thickness and diameter of the stock brakes rotors?
thanks

Damn 800 bucks for crossdrilled and slotted? That is pretty steep. I think their cool and all but more like 400-500 seems reasonable for stock rotors drilled/slotted.

thanks gordon for straightening me out on that. and for the rest of it i think you've got it dead on there. all marketing.

what'm i, chopped liver??

I'm totally on board with the idea that slotting and drilling is of minimal value in this day and age, but I don't know about machining effecting the grain structure of the alloy all that much.

You guys do know how small the grain boundaries are right? It's not like the grain in wood - it's waaaay smaller, and unless there's localized heating associated with machining, I don't see how it effects the grain structure. In fact, I would guess that when they crack it's due to stess localizing around the changed geometry - not so much a materials issue, but it would have more to do with the mechanics of the solid. I might dig up the book afterwhile, but I can't see how you're really effecting the grain structure by drilling the holes if you keep your process in check.