I am trading in my '97 3000GT and receive these 2 deals from my Nissan and Mazda dealers.

2004 RX8 MT Grand touring package (Red) - $26800
2003 350Z MT Enthusist (Red) - $22600

Tough decision. This will be my only car so I must drive in snow. I think the Z will be bad in snow. (3000GT drove great with Blizzaks).

Any suggestions?

If you want great linear performance then go for the 350Z, but if you want a car thats fun to drive then get the RX-8.

do i dare ask how a dealer is allowing you to buy an enthusiast model 350z for $22000? They are over $30000.

Are you sleeping with the dealer?

those prices are low
test drive time

Originally posted by RX8Lover
do i dare ask how a dealer is allowing you to buy an enthusiast model 350z for $22000? They are over $30000.

Are you sleeping with the dealer?

Actually, the enthusiast is under $30k...like $27-28 or something...the performance model (right above enthusiast) is right at $30k. But $22k is a really good deal if it is brand new. IF it is brand new I'd say get it cuz thats cheap.

probably after trade in guys.....

Originally posted by zerohour
probably after trade in guys.....

OOOOOHHHHH....hahaha....ic

Well in that case, you'd be getting around ~$6k for your trade in with the Z, but i dunno what it accounts to in the 8 b/c i have no idea what that package is worth.

I guess the question I have is who is paying for it?

Stop hatein man

can hardly believe these prices. Here the Rx is STILL MSRP and the 350Z has premium pricing stickers. I know I already shared this but I drove a touring 350Z with wheel upgrade - the sticker was $38KKKKKK

THere is only a $2641 markup on the RX with GT and spare. That is $31,495 - $2641 = $28,854 invoice. That means the dealer is paying for part of your car.

sorry to say it as a biased point of view, but afterall my reason IS a bias...

I think the RX-8 looks better than the Z.
But ya know what? I love the Z too... my first car was a Z and I think that it would be fun to drive... but I've got to say RX-8 because of looks

the rx-8 is more practical then the Z, i have no problem getting in 4 people in my 8 and as for the 350z it feels great having all that power, but power wasnt what i wanted... i wanted a 4 door sports car.. and thats why i got my 8, no regrets here either.. its sooo sexy :)

I've noticed that in most of these threads with a comparison of cars that people rally around their decision. Primarily the 8 owners firmly believe in the RX. One thing though, there are a few threads of WRX and this one particularly that have the person considering the "other" car at a lower than normal price. Is this a test to see how valuable the 8 is comparatively? I only know that when I recently shopped these cars, the prices were still MSRP on the 8 and S2000 with Premium pricing (above MSRP) on the 350Z. The only deals were on the G35 sedans and coupes (auto) - they are not moving in my area now. It is saturated with them. BTW how long has the new 350Z beenon the market? I am curious since they have sold around 35,000 of them since that time. They've sold about 6000 RX 8's in 2.5 months.

Originally posted by BlueOakleyz
sorry to say it as a biased point of view, but afterall my reason IS a bias...

I think the RX-8 looks better than the Z.
But ya know what? I love the Z too... my first car was a Z and I think that it would be fun to drive... but I've got to say RX-8 because of looks

I agree....not that I don't like the Z, it was just my 2nd choice behind the RX8. To me, it looks like someone who got all their teeth knocked out. ..from the front....then there's the interior.....

Everyones view will be biased to some extent, and this is an RX-8 specific forum - so will lean well towards the RX-8.

But the only reason I'm getting the RX-8 as opposed to a 2 seater is its practicality (4 seats, boot etc).

The 350z is not out here yet (UK) but if wouldnt be in my top 10 for 2 seater sports cars, I just dont like its looks, very poorly styled.

As for RX-8 competition, there isnt any realy. A RWD hi-performance, custom built sportscar/coupe. Theres plenty of fast 'sedan' types from audi/bmw etc (which I hate), but nothing that directly compares.

I'd say drive and see which you like best.

After owning the 8 and test driving the Z I would still pick the 8 but I love to have a nice interior.

I like the styling of the Z, I like the power, the road feel and all are great. I actually like everything about the Z except the interior!

So it's all up to what YOU like/value more.

Think about it: Off the line, the Z has you. But on the 1/4 mile, the 8 domin8's. Take it on the back twisty roads and once again the 8 out handles and out performs the Z hands down. Bonus on the interior stileing of the 8 (it looks and feels so much better then the Z) and the overall look of the exterior looks 100 times better then the Z. The Z looks like a toad taking a dump from the rear.

Originally posted by Cold8Fusion
But on the 1/4 mile, the 8 domin8's.

I'd have to argue there...not gonna say flat out that the Z would win, but I would totally disagree that the "8 domin8's" the Z in the quarter mile...

Originally posted by zthang
I'd have to argue there...not gonna say flat out that the Z would win, but I would totally disagree that the "8 domin8's" the Z in the quarter mile...

Since you won't say it, I will, the Z will flat out win :p I don't think those prices are with trade in, if they are give me a call and I'll give you more than 6k for your 3000GT :) The price on the Z is amazingly low if it's new, what's the story with the Z, 22k doesn't seem right. Lastly, I would hate to drive either of those cars in the snow. RWD + snow = baaaaaaad.

Ike

Nissan dealer offer me $8000 for my 3000GT, Mazda dealer offer $6500. I took the Mazda deal and I am now driving a 2004 Titamium Gray RX8 GT. I made the right decision picking the RX8 over the 350z. My next goal is to purchase 4 Blizzaks before the snow starts falling.

Originally posted by CaptainAndy
Nissan dealer offer me $8000 for my 3000GT, Mazda dealer offer $6500. I took the Mazda deal and I am now driving a 2004 Titamium Gray RX8 GT. I made the right decision picking the RX8 over the 350z. My next goal is to purchase 4 Blizzaks before the snow starts falling.

4 seats are better than 2 + looks + unique engine. Good choice. Welcome to the party, although you should have sold the 3000GT through the autotrader.

welcome and good choice

I take it the 3000GT was not a VR4, or not in very good shape.

Ike

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Since you won't say it, I will, the Z will flat out win :p I don't think those prices are with trade in, if they are give me a call and I'll give you more than 6k for your 3000GT :) The price on the Z is amazingly low if it's new, what's the story with the Z, 22k doesn't seem right. Lastly, I would hate to drive either of those cars in the snow. RWD + snow = baaaaaaad.

Ike

He probably meant base model for 32K??

Any car can have issues in the snow FWD, AWD, and RWD.

I know you love AWD Ike ;) I've drifted in snowpack going up snowboarding all the time in my old WRX. The place where you have to be careful is going downhill.... any car is going to have issues if it's slippy out.

RWD is not necessarily BAD, but it takes much more advanced driver control. I agree that AWD and FWD do have the advantage, but it's the sideways movements that you have to watch out for.

At first the Mazda dealer offered $5000 for my 3000GT. After I informed them I was also looking at the 350z and that the Nissan dealer offer $8000 the offer from the Mazda dealer increased to $6500. The GT was not in great condition (94000 miles and needed struts) and I was happy to get the $6500.

Originally posted by syntrix
He probably meant base model for 32K??

Any car can have issues in the snow FWD, AWD, and RWD.

I know you love AWD Ike ;) I've drifted in snowpack going up snowboarding all the time in my old WRX. The place where you have to be careful is going downhill.... any car is going to have issues if it's slippy out.

RWD is not necessarily BAD, but it takes much more advanced driver control. I agree that AWD and FWD do have the advantage, but it's the sideways movements that you have to watch out for.

You say advanced driver control, I say fearing for your life :p
I drove in a Mustang in a snowstorm once, I almost pooped myself several times

Originally posted by IkeWRX
You say advanced driver control, I say fearing for your life :p
I drove in a Mustang in a snowstorm once, I almost pooped myself several times

I used to have a 76 bmw 2002 when I lived in Salt Lake City eons ago.

She worked like a charm.

Light RWD in the snow == sweet.

Heavy pigs like stangs in the snow == poopy pants :D

Originally posted by syntrix
I used to have a 76 bmw 2002 when I lived in Salt Lake City eons ago.

She worked like a charm.

Light RWD in the snow == sweet.

Heavy pigs like stangs in the snow == poopy pants :D

LOL.....

Mustangs are notorious for being pigs in the snow. Front/Rear weight bias is the killer.

I've driven some RWD beaters, with no trac control and skinny, partially bald tires. I even drove a Trans Am with summer tires that I didn't have a problem with in the snow. I've also seen 4WD cars/trucks get stuck in snow. No defense for driving stupidity. You just have to know how to drive in the white stuff.

RX8 with 50/50 balance and light weight shouldn't be bad. Only way to tell is to wait for the flakes to fly.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
You say advanced driver control, I say fearing for your life :p
I drove in a Mustang in a snowstorm once, I almost pooped myself several times

LOL i have to agree with Ike here. Drove a 90 MR2 in the snow before. It feels like i'm only driving on 2 rear wheels and the front 2 are in the air, the nose keep moving sideway. Scared the crap outta me. There is no way i'm gonna experiment with my 8 LMAO. When snow fall, i'll break out my '00 Impreza and stored my 8. :D :cool:

50/50 weight distribution isn't a great thing for snow, you guys will want to get some sandbags for the trunk to get even more weight in the back.

Ike

Ike...traditional thinking used to be that you should put weight over the drive wheels. More recent thought is you cause more harm than good by changing the handling dynamics of the car by doing so, especially with one that has equal weight distribution.

What you may get in traction, you give up a lot of control by having the steering wheels with less tire contact.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
50/50 weight distribution isn't a great thing for snow, you guys will want to get some sandbags for the trunk to get even more weight in the back.

Ike

I'd rather have 50/50 RWD and light weight over a 6200LBS RWD Domestic car.

Remember... AWD only helps with accel, it's actually gonna hurt you more if you lock the wheels up going downhill on snowpack :D

Mustangs, WRXs, RX-8s, MR2s, in the snow - it's all about the tires. You try and drive ANY car in snow on performance summer tires and I don't care which wheels are driving, you'll likely end up in the ditch or against a curb or guard rail. Similarly, put proper winter tires on any of the above and they'll do OK. The Mustang will still handle like a pickup truck because of it's lighter rear end (and the high torque at low RPM makes it tougher), but with winter tires would do OK.

50/50 is bad? Nonsense. There's plenty of us Miata drivers who have a blast in winter, driving on winter tires. Handling balance is handling balance, even on low friction surfaces. Sure, I could stack sandbags in the trunk and make it handle like a Porsche 911, but I don't happen to think that massive oversteer all the time is a good thing (oversteer on demand is just fine ;) ). Similarly, i expect that the RX-8 with good winter tires will be fine in winter. It's got a good traction and stability control system, and the torque curve (with a high peak) will actually make it quite suited to low grip driving, unlike a Mustang.

With the stock summer tires, a RX-8 will absolutely suck in winter conditions. Put similar performance summer tires on an WRX, and it too would absolutely suck in winter conditions. AWD doesn't make that much difference in cornering and braking, especially when the tires won't grip.

For the guys planning to drive their RX-8s in winter weather - get winter tires. If you don't, and slide your summer tire'd RX-8 into something and then come whine here about how the RX-8 sucks on snow/ice, rest assured that I will be quick to point out that it is you that suck on snow/ice, not the car!! If you don't change the tires, you WILL regret it.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by syntrix
I'd rather have 50/50 RWD and light weight over a 6200LBS RWD Domestic car.

Remember... AWD only helps with accel, it's actually gonna hurt you more if you lock the wheels up going downhill on snowpack :D

Unless you plan on defying the laws of physics looking up the wheels will have the same effect. But yes, AWD won't help you stop any faster, but it will help while you're moving (if the brakes aren't locked up). Graphicguy, thanks I didn't know that, I guess it's more a for the guys in pickups that have very little weight in the back...

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Unless you plan on defying the laws of physics looking up the wheels will have the same effect. But yes, AWD won't help you stop any faster, but it will help while you're moving (if the brakes aren't locked up). Graphicguy, thanks I didn't know that, I guess it's more a for the guys in pickups that have very little weight in the back...


Don't forget about the DSC and traction in the RX8. Something that a wrx doesn't come with... and if it did, would have saved alot of kids lives :(

Originally posted by syntrix
Don't forget about the DSC and traction in the RX8. Something that a wrx doesn't come with... and if it did, would have saved alot of kids lives :(

DSC/traction control are just a bad idea on an AWD car and you act like kids are dying left and right in the WRX. I'm sure there have been some afatalities but I doubt on most of those DSC and traction control would have helped much.

Ike

Originally posted by IkeWRX
DSC/traction control are just a bad idea on an AWD car and you act like kids are dying left and right in the WRX. I'm sure there have been some afatalities but I doubt on most of those DSC and traction control would have helped much.

Ike
My brother has a BMW 330xi, which has AWD, DSC, and traction control. I find that the stability/traction control helps keep the car stable in the winter, and lets you drive faster in mixed conditions.

If you turn off the DSC/Traction control, you can get all 4 wheels slipping when accelerating, which is quite exciting.

Ike, do you have a reason why you feel that DSC and AWD does not mix?

Originally posted by mdmaclean


Ike, do you have a reason why you feel that DSC and AWD does not mix?

Yeah, just because you have AWD doesn't make you invincible!

DSC and AWD do mix!!!

Originally posted by syntrix
Yeah, just because you have AWD doesn't make you invincible!

DSC and AWD do mix!!!

I like having both systems, and it is nice if you can turn off the traction control to play. For daily driving, DSC and traction control are great, especially in the winter or on wet streets.

agreed!

Originally posted by mdmaclean
My brother has a BMW 330xi, which has AWD, DSC, and traction control. I find that the stability/traction control helps keep the car stable in the winter, and lets you drive faster in mixed conditions.

If you turn off the DSC/Traction control, you can get all 4 wheels slipping when accelerating, which is quite exciting.

Ike, do you have a reason why you feel that DSC and AWD does not mix?

If you want pure safety sure you're correct. If I can just get a button to turn it off and keep it off, great. I want to feel connected to the road, not like a computer is doing my intruding on my fun, which is why the overengineered ABS on my WRX is no longer in opperating condition :p However in a bad snowstorm maybe the DSC/traction control would be welcomed. You seem to be implying that DSC and traction control in the 8 will be every bit as good as AWD in the snow and poor road conditions. Or am I reading you wrong?

i'm surprised noboy's brought up the insurance costs.

Isn't the 350 more ??

Originally posted by Pete
i'm surprised noboy's brought up the insurance costs.

Isn't the 350 more ??

Yes, but just call your insurance company to be sure ;)

Ike...from your posts, I get the impression that you have a good handle on driving dynamics...be it AWD or FWD or RWD.

All the computer intervention in the world (DSC, ABS, or any other designation) isn't going to change the road conditions or the level of driving acuity you have in the slick stuff.

As Gord said, you need some good snow tires to drive in slick conditions. Summer performance tires aren't going to help.

What you need more, however, is good common sense/experience as to how to drive in slick conditions.

If i had no experience driving in such conditions, I'd park my "good car" and get a beater to slide around in for the winter.

Originally posted by graphicguy
Ike...from your posts, I get the impression that you have a good handle on driving dynamics...be it AWD or FWD or RWD.

All the computer intervention in the world (DSC, ABS, or any other designation) isn't going to change the road conditions or the level of driving acuity you have in the slick stuff.

As Gord said, you need some good snow tires to drive in slick conditions. Summer performance tires aren't going to help.

What you need more, however, is good common sense/experience as to how to drive in slick conditions.

If i had no experience driving in such conditions, I'd park my "good car" and get a beater to slide around in for the winter.

That's a good point, growing up driving in nasty winter conditions and getting used to how to drive in them will help you more than anything most likely. I lived in St. Louis for a short time and when it snowed there people just freaked out and were in the ditch with just a half inch on the ground. Whereas in Chicago and now Milwaukee it's just no big deal when it snows and more people are ready for it with the proper tires. All that being said... I still wouldn't want to have a RWD car for year round driving if I live in an area with snowy winters. However if it's really the one car I want and can't afford a winter car I'd make do. My FWD cars have just been an annoyance in the winter (but not dangerous feeling), while my AWD cars are just a blast to drive in the winter. Plus I get a new set of tires for rallyx :p

Originally posted by IkeWRX
If you want pure safety sure you're correct. If I can just get a button to turn it off and keep it off, great. I want to feel connected to the road, not like a computer is doing my intruding on my fun, which is why the overengineered ABS on my WRX is no longer in opperating condition :p However in a bad snowstorm maybe the DSC/traction control would be welcomed. You seem to be implying that DSC and traction control in the 8 will be every bit as good as AWD in the snow and poor road conditions. Or am I reading you wrong?

I was responding to your assertion that AWD & (DSC and Traction Control) do not mix.

An RX-8 will definitely be not as good in the snow as a 330xi. I do think that with DSC, Traction Control, and LSD it will work quite well. My BMW540i which I traded in had RWD and traction control, and with snow tires it was fine for winter here in Ottawa, Canada.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Plus I get a new set of tires for rallyx :p

snow tires are good for rallyx ;) I took my car out over the dirt roads to do a shoot at the rallyx and see a LOT of old faces ;)

Funny how some rwd times were better than awd times, given that the rwd drivers were newbies ;)

Originally posted by CaptainAndy
I am trading in my '97 3000GT and receive these 2 deals from my Nissan and Mazda dealers.

2004 RX8 MT Grand touring package (Red) - $26800
2003 350Z MT Enthusist (Red) - $22600

Tough decision. This will be my only car so I must drive in snow. I think the Z will be bad in snow. (3000GT drove great with Blizzaks).

Any suggestions?

For the price you quoted I would go with the Z. The RX8's rear seats are not that big anyway.

Have to disagree about the RX8's back seat. I've used it several times with another couple to go out to dinner. When quizzed, the back seat passengers said they were quite comfortable. In addition, they appreciated the suicide doors for entrance and exit from the back. Plus, the trunk of the RX8 is MUCH more useable than the hatch (and big bar) in the 350Z.

Originally posted by graphicguy
Have to disagree about the RX8's back seat. I've used it several times with another couple to go out to dinner. When quizzed, the back seat passengers said they were quite comfortable. In addition, they appreciated the suicide doors for entrance and exit from the back. Plus, the trunk of the RX8 is MUCH more useable than the hatch (and big bar) in the 350Z.

On the RX8 I pushed the front seat all the way back and there is virtually no space left for rear passenger, I am 6'5 and with the seat all the way back I still feel kinda tight. Yes, the Z's trunk is a joke.

the back seats in the rx-8 have more room than an is300's back seats
________
Harmed By Nexium (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/nexium/)

This is one case where it actually makes more sense to put the tall people in the back .

I am 6'2" and let my friend's daughter ride in the front passenger seat (she is about 5'4"). I had planty of room and was quite comfortable.

Also, I find that the passenger seat has lots of leg room. Enough that when I ride over there, I can pull the seat more forward then the driver seat, and still fit. Thereby making plenty of room for the person in the back.

However, I would feel sorry for any adult that had to ride behind me when I drive, since I keep the seat all the way back.