I dunno if you guys have been following this story, but it's pretty damn interesting.

Todd Goldman is an "artist" and the head of David and Goliath Tees, a pretty popular T-shirt company. He just recently got caught copying someone's work. I'll just do it in bullet points

* Thread where the original artist speaks up (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2416213&perpage=40&pagenumber=1). LONG ass thread, just read the first post unless you have A LOT of time.

* Some comparisons of Todd's "original" works (http://www.miketyndall.com/todd_goldman/)

* Todd about his inspiration: "I'm just wacked out of my mind. Things just come to me really quickly. I have complete ADD so I've never finished a book before. I haven't really watched cartoons or read comic books. It's just my witty sense of humor and my love to draw"

* Todd's autoresponding email to EVERYONE who emails him (http://img353.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oh20toddyn0.jpg). It's pretty bad libel with a link to a server with pornographic material. Todd also off handedly admits to stealing.

* If you're curious, Dave DID draw at least some of those pictures in that link. He got paid to draw them and he gave up drawing them after a while even though there were still people trying to commission him to draw more. And apparently the pictures of the guy in that directory ISN'T him.

i don't get the "frank lloyd wrong" one. maybe I'm dumb.

What an asshole. I can't believe he's doing this shit. I hope he gets legally and physically hung up by his balls.

-Steakboy

frank lloyd wright was a famous architect. play on words.

frank lloyd wright was a famous architect. play on words.

see, that makes sense. I wiki'd frank lloyd and came up with the writer. I didn't know there was a frank lloyd architect. thanks feras!

-Steakboy

this guy is dead to me, what a piece of shit.

Is this the guy who did the "boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" stuff?

If so, I would very much enjoy seeing him sued into the poorhouse.

Is this the guy who did the "boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" stuff?

If so, I would very much enjoy seeing him sued into the poorhouse.
Yes , that's this guy

His company makes a lot of money.

I'm hoping he loses almost everything he owns, but it's highly unlikely. :(

what a douch

what a douche

fixed. sorry, if you're gunna insult him, spell it right!

-Steakboy

my question is why should any of us care, he didnt steal any of yours or my artwork. He puts stolen pictures on t-shirts, he's not out murdering people. I personally am not a fan of getting pissed off about things that dont affect me.

because we work our asses off to earn our money while this guy traces other people's work and makes more than we ever will. Plus, most of the people he's stealing from create their art for pure entertainment and is never sold, then he takes their free work and sells it without their permission and without any monetary retribution for their efforts.

It really comes down to empathy. we feel for the people who he has stolen from.

-Steakboy

my question is why should any of us care, he didnt steal any of yours or my artwork. He puts stolen pictures on t-shirts, he's not out murdering people. I personally am not a fan of getting pissed off about things that dont affect me.

So you're okay with me killing off your entire family but leaving you unharmed?

For society to function, we must create an environment that is equitable and fair, or at least some semblance to it.

its the level of reaction here, yeah he's a thief im not saying he's not (i know its hard for some to accept a world where viewpoints aren't polar opposites). If people are getting this pissed off from stolen t-shirt ideas, wheres the lynch mob when a murder happens or someone gets raped. Just seems like a strange one to latch on to me.

its the level of reaction here, yeah he's a thief im not saying he's not (i know its hard for some to accept a world where viewpoints aren't polar opposites). If people are getting this pissed off from stolen t-shirt ideas, wheres the lynch mob when a murder happens or someone gets raped. Just seems like a strange one to latch on to me.

The lynch mob is the families and friends. But they can do something about it. They can call the police, have the person arrested and put in prison. this guy is stealing IP's and dishing them out as his own, but slightly different enough that the owners of the IP's can't do anything about it. Is murder worse? of course. But something can be done about it.

Really, the only thing people can do about this is boycott the company.

-Steakboy

my question is why should any of us care, he didnt steal any of yours or my artwork. He puts stolen pictures on t-shirts, he's not out murdering people. I personally am not a fan of getting pissed off about things that dont affect me.
It pisses me off that
1) His company makes $90-$100 million a YEAR.
2) He steals people's ideas.
3) He claims these ideas ARE HIS OWN IDEAS TO THE PRESS.
4) His response to being called out is to slander the original artist by calling him... a pedophile?

If this guy wasn't famous (he's in books, his works get put into art galleries, he's featured in popular stores) and making so much money (like I said, his company makes 90-100 million a year), people would not care so much. Reproductions of his "original paintings" sell for upwards of $4-5K each.

That's why people are up in arms. It's "the man" (ie a rich, semi-famous guy) stealing work from "one of us" (a non-famous, non rich person) and using it to become MORE famous and MORE rich. Plus you steal my crap and then you call me a pedophile? What the hell?

Goldman has offered an apology for the theft (no mention of the libel), but I don't think Shmorky's gonna let it go at just that.

its the level of reaction here, yeah he's a thief im not saying he's not (i know its hard for some to accept a world where viewpoints aren't polar opposites). If people are getting this pissed off from stolen t-shirt ideas, wheres the lynch mob when a murder happens or someone gets raped. Just seems like a strange one to latch on to me.
Oh also... there doesn't need to be a lynch mob because the law will take care of it.

Though some people will say you can get away with murder/rape if you're famous enough or rich enough, it's much less likely than in a case like this. If people don't push this issue, Goldman goes off stealing more art and profiting more from it. You know if people weren't outraged by this, NOTHING would happen to Goldman. People will look at his paintings and go "WOW! WHAT A GENIUS!" and pay him more and more money for his "genius ideas".

Plus it's like I murder your friend and then when you go "HEY YOU MURDERED SOMEONE!" I'll be like "I murder one child molestor a month! That guy I murdered likes to molest little kids. Disgusting isn't it? Next month though, I'll murder a serial killer! Do it for the kids man!"

:(

let me just ask a quick question to all. Have you ever downloaded illegal music?

nope, and that's the truth.

I see where you are headed with this though, however you can't really compare.

some stealing the IP's and selling it for huge monetary gains is not the same as downloading a song for personal use. now if I were to dl a whole album, burn it to discs, then sell them for money, then it's the same.

And really, I prefer a purchased CD to a dl music file anyway because the quality is a lot better on the cd.

-Steakboy

let me just ask a quick question to all. Have you ever downloaded illegal music?
That's not a relevant question. If you want one that applies to this situation it's this:

Have you ever downloaded illegal music AND SOLD IT. USED THAT TO BECOME FAMOUS, OR CLAIMED IT WAS CREATED BY YOU?

The answer to THAT question for me and everyone I know is "no". :)

That's not a relevant question. If you want one that applies to this situation it's this:

Have you ever downloaded illegal music AND SOLD IT. USED THAT TO BECOME FAMOUS, OR CLAIMED IT WAS CREATED BY YOU?

The answer to THAT question for me and everyone I know is "no". :)
it isnt very relevant, but neither is your earlier counterpoint on murdering serial killers. ;)


but i think the point of what i have to say has been missed. you me and everyone on this thread is an outsider on this matter, we haven't been stolen from, we aren't negatively affected, and if this turns out positively (the thief gets caught and screwed) or negatively (he goes on stealing things and making money) it changes nothing for any of us. So my only point is getting really pissed off about this only succeeds in raising your blood pressure. Nothing any of us says is gonna affect how this thing will or won't make it to trial so don't get flustered by it. Life is a lot more enjoyable if you don't get pissed off about things that in the long run don't really matter.

I'm not really angry. Whatever happens wont affect me, like you said, but I do wanna see the right thing happen.

-Steakboy

it isnt very relevant, but neither is your earlier counterpoint on murdering serial killers. ;)


but i think the point of what i have to say has been missed. you me and everyone on this thread is an outsider on this matter, we haven't been stolen from, we aren't negatively affected, and if this turns out positively (the thief gets caught and screwed) or negatively (he goes on stealing things and making money) it changes nothing for any of us. So my only point is getting really pissed off about this only succeeds in raising your blood pressure. Nothing any of us says is gonna affect how this thing will or won't make it to trial so don't get flustered by it. Life is a lot more enjoyable if you don't get pissed off about things that in the long run don't really matter.

Actually that's where you're wrong. :-/

You SHOULD care. As a more extreme example, if a stranger is about to be murdered in front of you do you say "hey, it's not ME being murdered, so whatever"? I mean it doesn't affect you negatively if you walk away. You shouldn't do anything and not worry about it because in the long run, that one murder doesn't matter, right? Whether or not this person gets murdered or not doesn't affect you probably.

I mean most people (minus the original artist and close friends/family) will not be blood pressure raisingly angry. I'm not. I'm actually FAR more pissed about what happened in the Imus situation (though in my case, I'm outraged by the response to it by the media, but that's a whole different beast).

I think it's a really bad attitude to have that if something doesn't affect you directly, you shouldn't care. I donated money to Katrina, the Asian Tsunami, and for some chick to get surgery for this huge growth on her face. I don't know anyone in New Orleans. I don't know anyone in Thailand and Indonesia. I don't know this chick with a huge, disfiguring growth on her face. NONE of these things affected me directly, but yet I did SOMETHING for it.

In a situation like this, the more the news spreads, the more likely something will be done about it. And, you're 100% right, it doesn't affect any of us directly, but if it's something as simple as spreading the word (it's not really any trouble to do), then why not do it other than "because it doesn't affect me directly". At least in this case, the more the news spread the more likely there will be some justice.

Oh and the murdering serial killers is a play on the email Todd sent out slandering the original artist, essentially saying he copied it but he copied a pedophile and then kind of saying the original artist is on the same level of Jeffrey Dahmer. I agree though, not particularly relevant.

please read what i said earlier about the pitfall of polar viewpoints before you start calling me out as a monster, im not saying not to ever care about anything. a stranger about to be murdered is something i do have a stake in and something i would try to stop and even put myself into danger to do, the tsunami, katrina, and other disasters do affect everyone...for gods sakes thousands of people died.

Artists (or supposed artists) getting pissed at eachother over stolen t shirt ideas and something as silly as money is a civil matter that they can take to the authorities to be dealt with privately. A few million dollars lost over plagiarism isnt the kind of event that rises to the level of being societally important or even important to the community.

please read what i said earlier about the pitfall of polar viewpoints before you start calling me out as a monster, im not saying not to ever care about anything. a stranger about to be murdered is something i do have a stake in and something i would try to stop and even put myself into danger to do, the tsunami, katrina, and other disasters do affect everyone...for gods sakes thousands of people died.

Artists (or supposed artists) getting pissed at eachother over stolen t shirt ideas and something as silly as money is a civil matter that they can take to the authorities to be dealt with privately. A few million dollars lost over plagiarism isnt the kind of event that rises to the level of being societally important or even important to the community.
You're taking what I'm saying the wrong way too.

I'm just using that as an extreme example. You're saying we should chill because it doesn't affect us directly. I'm saying sure, but it's a slippery slope towards more extreme cases, you know? You can say things like the tsunami and Katrina affects everyone, but honestly, how much did it affect you and your life in the US if you're not from New Orleans? People died. People die in the world all the time. Life goes on, right?

But yes, this plagiarism is a TINY issue compared to the issues confronting the world today. That I agree with you completely. I just disagree with the attitude that "it's minor and doesn't affect me so we shouldn't care at all." I disagree with that simply because it's a case of justice (albeit a very minor one). If we ignore minor injustices, what's to say we shouldn't ignore more major ones provided it doesn't affect us? (Hence those more extreme examples). Because people DO say "yeah those people dying don't affect me so I won't do anything".

Does that makes sense? I'm sorry to see that you're taking what I'm saying as a personal attack. It's not meant to in any way shape or form.