Well the Chicago Tribune just had an article about JD Power's study on customer retention by auto maker. They survived 138,360 customers as to weather they would replace a vehicle with one of the same make. drum roll please........

Out of 36 auto makers rated Mazda finished 35th! the only auto maker rated lower was Isuzu. didn't even know they still made cars.

Well I guess Mazda strategy of ignoring major problems, blaming obvious problem on the customers, penny pinching, and all around indifference to customers is really paying off for them.....Well done Mazda, keep up the good work.

Zoom, Zoom Doom.

link?
hope you got a flame shield

I'm made of asbestos. :smoker:

Actually this has no reflection on view of the RX-8. I love the car but I really hate the way Mazda supports it, one of the most disappointing experience I have ever had. I'm just sick of being told every thing is fine or it is my fault when I have documented the opposite and they then just ignore the problems. Mazda corp. makes some great vehicle but then treats the customer like crap. I really can't see buying another Mazda after this poor experience. It is a shame because the cars are beautiful.

given how well mazda has been doing, I doubt that they're second to last in anything.

Damn funny mysql101, actually took me 2 reads to get that. 3 to make sure I read it write.

I love my mazda and ive never really had a problem with their service or the way they take care of customers. however being in the RX8 i will say I feel "ignored" in the way of getting updates or bumps in power for our car.

I realize the RX line has never been a huge seller and its all coming down to the numbers of what they should do to maximize profit. If I was in their boat I'd be doing the same thing. However when one of Mazda's most expensive cars performs like competitors cheaper cars, there is going to be some resentment somewhere.

I'm not flaming mazda - I'm very happy with my car for now. It looks sexy, it carves corners like a hot knife thru butter :)

given how well mazda has been doing, I doubt that they're second to last in anything.
So you're trying to equate "how well mazda has been doing" (which presumably means their sales numbers) with their customer retention rate? First off, their numbers in America aren't great. Second why can't you have both being true? Perhaps most of their new sales are by new customers. Doesn't explain away the bad customer retention numbers.

Not trying to flame Mazda, but your logic is faulty.

I'm just saying that their sales numbers are going so well they've cut back on rebates and incentives.

Then factoring in reliability of mazda as a whole, they are doing well all around.

That said, I find it hard to believe they're being abandoned as much as the survey claims.

Maybe he was being "ironic" and saying that he can't believe Mazda is not last?

Maybe he was being "ironic" and saying that he can't believe Mazda is not last?
Haha, nice. Why didn't I think of that?

Maybe it's because Mazda doesn't offer as wide a range of vehicles as other companies? If I wanted to get an SUV or big truck after the RX8, and I didn't get a Mazda, it wouldn't necessarily be because I was unhappy with the RX8.

...if the paper says it, well it must be true...oh nooooooooooo!

good job

...if the paper says it, well it must be true...oh nooooooooooo!
I don't believe anything that I don't read on teh Internets.

i love my car and the service is good ... not the greatest though .....

i know that mazda really isnt a big name to begin with ... i mean when i got my car my dad asked me who made it and i said mazda and he was like ..... what never heard of it before

mazda isn't as huge as toyota or GM, but if your dad has never heard of it, he doesn't get out nearly enough...

Since the OP is too lazy to post the link:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/chi-0703230687mar25,1,1057833.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

when i got my car my dad asked me who made it and i said mazda and he was like ..... what never heard of it before
How is that possible?

i love my car and the service is good ... not the greatest though .....

i know that mazda really isnt a big name to begin with ... i mean when i got my car my dad asked me who made it and i said mazda and he was like ..... what never heard of it before
You need to let your daddy out of that closet. :hahano:

ditto what raptor said.

any car co can sell u a car once, but it's how u'r treated after the purchase that determines whether u become a return customer or not. bmw & lexus dealerships do well in this area, because their corporate puts a direct tie-in/ financial incentive with their customer satisfaction surveys. if a dealer gets poor marks, then that dealership loses discounts & preferential treatment until they get their numbers up. it's simple carrot-on-a-stick mentality, but does wonders to how well the company as a whole & their brand name is perceived by customers, which is a good long term strategy.

mazda's really short-sighted if they think that they'll sustain sales numbers without revamping all the problems on the back-end of sales. people will only put up w/ so much bs.


Actually this has no reflection on view of the RX-8. I love the car but I really hate the way Mazda supports it, one of the most disappointing experience I have ever had... Mazda corp. makes some great vehicle but then treats the customer like crap. I really can't see buying another Mazda after this poor experience. It is a shame because the cars are beautiful.

has anyone taken a jd power survey? i smell corporate marauding.

btw, mazda is trying to get better in the after sale area. i've been surveyed three times in a month since my new purchase.

^^ I think you are right. I'm not buying another Nissan because of how poor their service was. It really was quite sad.

The big questions to ask are:

Who paid for the survey????? Who comprised their demographic group? What part(s) of the country where the respondents located? What were the questions/how were they slanted?

The answers to these questions could have a profound effect on the results.

Surveys are usually skewed to be favorable to the entity that paid for them.

Just to add flames to the fire... and I know this will start another debate.... The resale value of Mazda (in Canada) is quite good. Only behind Toyota and Honda.

www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/March2007/28/c7789.html

the time frame in which the survey is given is also kinked btw.

i mean, what kind of major problems could u have after just a month- much less surveying u 3 times? sounds fishy to me and a way for mazda to cheat to get more favorable results. c'mon- most ppl are still high from the excitement over getting the new car during that time frame. a more accurate surveying method- which bmw & lexus do- is post purchase, then 6 months, then a year later and so forth with each service visit to the dealership(s).

has anyone taken a jd power survey? i smell corporate marauding.

btw, mazda is trying to get better in the after sale area. i've been surveyed three times in a month since my new purchase.

I think saying "Mazda SUCKS" because of this survey is a bit... rash. Part of the problem might be Mazda's lineup, which is smaller and more specialized than a lot of other car manufacturers. Mazda is on the higher-end of the under $40K market, unlike Kia for example, so if you buy a Mazda your next car will probably come from a higher-up manufacturer like Lexus. You don't hear of too many people trading in their Miata for a Hyundai.

It's probably the same in the suryey as on this site. The owners with positive experiances out weigh the owners with negatives ones 20-1, But the negative group howls the loudest

Ok, the survey just lists how much people replace a vehicle with one of the same make. It says absolutely nothing about the WHY. Yes, it *could* be because of satisfaction with service, or reliability, or whatever. It could just as easily be that they didn't find anything in the lineup that appealed to them. That, for instance, is the reason I didn't buy another Toyota, despite being extremely satisfied with the company. Could be, as someone pointed out, that after their Mazda, they're ready to move up to something fancier/more prestigious/more expensive. Could be that the very kind of people who are drawn to a Mazda in the first place are more adventuresome, and adventuresome people want to try something different the next time. In short, all we have here is a raw statistic about a "what" and absolutely nothing but speculation over the "why".

My personal opinion is that half of the people they talked to about Mazda were actually beefyjoe. ;)

I was one of those people that filled out that survey last month and said to the effect great car lousy dealer and service. JD wanted people to fill out the many pages bad, they even included a dollar bill.

I was one of those people that filled out that survey last month and said to the effect great car lousy dealer and service. JD wanted people to fill out the many pages bad, they even included a dollar bill.Interesting. Because the article to which we got a link doesn't mention anything about that kind of feedback, just lists the retention rate.

:rofl:

My personal opinion is that half of the people they talked to about Mazda were actually beefyjoe. ;)

Just wait to you need something fixed which Mazda doesn't what to fix, even though it is under warranty. You'll see how hard they are trying.

Sending out a piece of paper is cheap, standing behind your car cost money and Mazda has proved time and time again they don't want to cover their issues, it is cheaper to blame you and me for the problem or just say they don't exist.


has anyone taken a jd power survey? i smell corporate marauding.

btw, mazda is trying to get better in the after sale area. i've been surveyed three times in a month since my new purchase.
c

Actually my personal experience tells me Mazda sucks, the survey merely confirms my opinion. This survey goes nicely with the one last year that also showed Mazda to be at the bottom of all manufactures for Service Satisfaction.

Surveys can be slanted one why or another but I have seen no evidence to indicated it here. Unless one of the doubters can produce something to back their speculation I must assume they have no merit here. It dose amaze me how so many would rather come up with excuse why this is false data or a unreliable survey rather then taking it as constructive criticism.

Mazda has a big problem which give enough time will destroy the company. Mazda has continuously been rated at the bottom of these surveys and by excepting their poor service we only perpetuate their behavior. I have experienced it first hand and it is to say the least very frustrating and has been the direct cause of my not buying a C7 to replace my other car. I will go further to say I can't really see myself buying another Mazda. There are just to many other manufacture out there who will stand behind their vehicle when things go wrong and value their customers. Why would I bet my head against a wall with another Mazda?

Again very sad because I really like the RX-8 but Mazda needs to clean house starting with the CEO who allows this culture if incompetent and ambivalence to flourish.


I think saying "Mazda SUCKS" because of this survey is a bit... rash. Part of the problem might be Mazda's lineup, which is smaller and more specialized than a lot of other car manufacturers. Mazda is on the higher-end of the under $40K market, unlike Kia for example, so if you buy a Mazda your next car will probably come from a higher-up manufacturer like Lexus. You don't hear of too many people trading in their Miata for a Hyundai.

the time frame in which the survey is given is also kinked btw.

i mean, what kind of major problems could u have after just a month- much less surveying u 3 times? sounds fishy to me and a way for mazda to cheat to get more favorable results. c'mon- most ppl are still high from the excitement over getting the new car during that time frame. a more accurate surveying method- which bmw & lexus do- is post purchase, then 6 months, then a year later and so forth with each service visit to the dealership(s).
agreed. i thought it was strange too. you didn't sense my sarcasm.

i disagree about bmw though. they've started to slack. warranty is good though, and always honored.

Interesting. Because the article to which we got a link doesn't mention anything about that kind of feedback, just lists the retention rate.

The survey was about eight pages and covered everything about owning this car. There were questions about if I was likley to buy a Mazda again and from my dealer.

Just wait to you need something fixed which Mazda doesn't what to fix, even through it is under warranty. You'll see how hard they are trying.

Sending out a piece of paper is cheap, standing behind your car cost money and Mazda has proved time and time again they don't want to cover their issues, it is cheaper to blame you and me for the problem or just say they don't exist.



c
see that is the issue... people mixing up the manufacture with the dealer.

And that is what is wrong with most JD power ratings.

There is the manufacture that builds the car. Then there is the dealer that sells and fixes the car. TWO different entities.

Sorta like if you go into Best Buy and buy a TV. Maybe a Panasonic Plasma. Maybe falls off the wall or your TV installer mounts it on a bad mount. Or your cable/Sat company has bad reception in your area. then you find Circuit shitty down the street has it for $1000 less and you feel ripped off.

Then JD power calls and says hey how do you like your TV. Well you feel ripped off, and have a bad picture from shitty reception. How well are you going to rate that TV??? Pretty bad.

Mazda ratings in JD power are no different. Yes there are some very bad Mazda dealers, who don't even know how to prep the car correctly or what oil to put in it. Those are the ones with the pissed off owners. Then there are dealers that bend over backwards to make sure you are taken care of. Those dealers have high Mazda retention rates (in JD powers ratings).

Also JD Powers tends to take only a minimal sampling. For example, they may have taken only 100 Mazda owners all together. 100 owners out of 300,000 new owners a year. What odds do you think that they got an accurate sample of owners (maybe the only talked to 100 04 RX-8 owners).

So JD power ratings are seldom real world accurate. My 06 RX-8 is my 3rd brand car new purchased Mazda, and my 6th Mazda car all together. More than any other manufacture. See if they talked to me that would have s'qued the rating all over.

I couldn't disagree more. It is Mazda that allows these dealers to operate the why they do. Do you think Lexus would allow one of its dealers to operate in a sub standard manor, of course not and if they did they would have their dealership pulled. What dose Mazda do, they send you to another dealer on a hope it works out better. Not what I would call proactive.

Your observation can be true but when you take a large enough sample these anomalies will become insignificant. Few survey are with out error but most provide useful information. Are there some good dealers, of course but the real problem is Mazda's policies and making excuses for them is helping no one especially Mazda.

I have found through experience that the people who complain the most about a survey are usually the ones negatively effected by it. That fact that Mazda has been painted in a negative light and you have bought several Mazdas may be tainting your ability to view this information with out bias.

Mazda has the ability to correct this and it has to start at corporate, if you believe the dealers will all come into line on their own to bring Mazda's scores up you are delusional.


see that is the issue... people mixing up the manufacture with the dealer.

And that is what is wrong with most JD power ratings.

There is the manufacture that builds the car. Then there is the dealer that sells and fixes the car. TWO different entities.

Sorta like if you go into Best Buy and buy a TV. Maybe a Panasonic Plasma. Maybe falls off the wall or your TV installer mounts it on a bad mount. Or your cable/Sat company has bad reception in your area. then you find Circuit shitty down the street has it for $1000 less and you feel ripped off.

Then JD power calls and says hey how do you like your TV. Well you feel ripped off, and have a bad picture from shitty reception. How well are you going to rate that TV??? Pretty bad.

Mazda ratings in JD power are no different. Yes there are some very bad Mazda dealers, who don't even know how to prep the car correctly or what oil to put in it. Those are the ones with the pissed off owners. Then there are dealers that bend over backwards to make sure you are taken care of. Those dealers have high Mazda retention rates (in JD powers ratings).

Also JD Powers tends to take only a minimal sampling. For example, they may have taken only 100 Mazda owners all together. 100 owners out of 300,000 new owners a year. What odds do you think that they got an accurate sample of owners (maybe the only talked to 100 04 RX-8 owners).

So JD power ratings are seldom real world accurate. My 06 RX-8 is my 3rd brand car new purchased Mazda, and my 6th Mazda car all together. More than any other manufacture. See if they talked to me that would have s'qued the rating all over.

i love my car and the service is good ... not the greatest though .....

i know that mazda really isnt a big name to begin with ... i mean when i got my car my dad asked me who made it and i said mazda and he was like ..... what never heard of it before
:lol2: Where has he been the last 3 and a half decades?

ditto what raptor said.

bmw & lexus dealerships do well in this area, because their corporate puts a direct tie-in/ financial incentive with their customer satisfaction surveys. if a dealer gets poor marks, then that dealership loses discounts & preferential treatment until they get their numbers up. it's simple carrot-on-a-stick mentality, but does wonders to how well the company as a whole & their brand name is perceived by customers, which is a good long term strategy.



Mazda does the same thing. CARE score is one example.

see that is the issue... people mixing up the manufacture with the dealer.

And that is what is wrong with most JD power ratings.

There is the manufacture that builds the car. Then there is the dealer that sells and fixes the car. TWO different entities.


Surprising that you are the only person to make this distinction so far. Dealerships are run by the dealer principle, who often owns many different dealerships across many brands. If Mazda asks a dealer to fix their bathroom in a Mazda dealership that only does 10% of the volume/profit as one of their Chevy stores with the same issues, which location do you think is going to receive the attention? The same rule applies to the tiny Isuzu, which is on the bottom of this particular ranking.

A big problem with JD Power in general is a manufacturer can be given bad marks for any customer complaint. A customer can buy and RX-8 and then say he wishes it had pistons, even though he knew damn well it had a rotary when buying the car. He just wishes it had a regular piston engine. His complaint would result in a bad survey.

Lexus does a great job of making a soulless appliance (my personal opinion after owning 2 Lexus cars), and that is what most customers want. The Mazda owner is more likely to be a car/performance enthusiast and a lot more picky about the car's little things, not just extra donuts in the waiting room.

A big problem with JD Power in general is a manufacturer can be given bad marks for any customer complaint. A customer can buy and RX-8 and then say he wishes it had pistons, even though he knew damn well it had a rotary when buying the car. He just wishes it had a regular piston engine. His complaint would result in a bad survey.


Yet all manufacturers are scored under the same rules so this point is moot when comparing one company to another.

Yet all manufacturers are scored under the same rules so this point is moot when comparing one company to another.

But what if this way of scoring severely handicaps Mazda? ie is this really the best way to determine what's good and what 'Sucks'? How is the data interpreted?

What severely handicaps Mazda is the service their dealers and HQ gives its customers. I guess many of us forgot about the "Mulligan" incident from last year Mazda is getting the press they deserve. The headline Rapter75 posted about correctly reflects how I filled out that survey. Even a fantastic 16oz steak will seem poor if I have to eat it in a outhouse served by rude people.

Great subject, tons of strong points from everyone. I've only had my car for 4 months and so far so good.

+1 to what raptor & expo said.

I probably won't buy another Mazda again even though I love the brand. The CX-7, CX-9, and Mazdaspeed vehicles are great, but I've had too many maintenance issues with my 8. I agree that it's because of the rotary engine and that the rest of the line-up shouldn't be plagues with such high maintenance issues. Regardless, it wouldn't be so bad if the dealers sservice departments didn't lie, and give me the runaround. It's like they're looking to get rich off of us 8 owners.

IMOO, Mazdas rep is what sucks not their vehicles. People on this board won't seperate the 2 just like those who really believe the 8 needs more power but won't say it openly while they keep coming on this board talking about great handling and dynamics etc., like because the car has them it doesn't need power.

We seen it before...Mazda has a bad rep when it comes to service and owner satisfaction. How does Mazda deal with it...Mulligan Gate. Mazda still isn't taken as seriously as Toyota or Honda because of things like that. Imagine, if Toyota was having problems with the celica or Honda with the S2000 and either one of them decided "we won't use these cars data" there would've been an uproaar so big, why, because these 2 manufacturers are respected as some if not the best in the industry and they're held to a higher standard. Until Mazda makes a good product (and I believe they do, RX-8 issues not withstanding) and then stands behind it, they won't really be respected and we won't have peoples fathers saying "Mazda? never heard of it"

I am fortunate to have a dealer right here in my town. They are in fact only about 5 miles away. Anytime I take my 8 in, for service or warranty issues, it is taken care of same day. In one year of ownership, it has been in for warranty repairs 4 times. Once for the reflash, once each for tailight condensation, and next week for a broken mirror mount. There has never been a question by the dealer as to whether or not they would fix it, they just do. And every single time my car goes through that shop, either for maintenance for warranty, I get a call from MNAO within a couple of days asking how my experience was, and I get a flyer in the mail requesting I fill it out and send it back, which I do. There is a reason that this dealer has "five diamond" service, they are constantly scrutinized by the maker for quality customer care. Do other dealers around the country not recieve this same level of attention, ensuring their cutomers are getting the best in sales and service that can be provided? I have a hard time believing that mine is an isolated incident. Would I buy another Mazda? Absolutly, if they have what I am looking for. I also have a Toyota with 220K miles on it that is still going strong. I would also consider another Toyota, because for me, it is not about brand loyalty it is about dealer customer service, and quality of product, which in this customers opinion, Mazda is doing quite well. So to the naysayers, I am sorry about your misfortunes with your car, and good luck in your future vehicle ownership. For this owner however, I will continue to enjoy my "miles of smiles" for many more to come.

most dealerships run by dumbasses who does not know what customer service is.

I've seen bad dealerships from all auto companies, Honda, Toyota, Ford, even Mazda, just name one.

You have to be really lucky to be able to find a good dealership. and it took me a while to find the one I have right now

First one, the place I got my 8 from, service treat me like shit, Manhattan Mazda, sales was nice but did tried to rip me off.
Second one, Again, the service ppl have no idea wtf were they doing, not to mention their sales department completely ignored me, like I cant afford there cars or something? Koppel Mazda
Finally Third one, actually listen to what I told them(Service), treated me with respect(service dept), and their sale dept have some pretty cool guys. I wish I got my car from them, they derserves it.

So it really depends on your luck. Cant really blame Mazda for everything.

Plus my 8 has no major problems, Only minor stuff like Brake Squeal and tail light condensation. and both already taken cared of. So will I buy another Mazda? Sure, if they have what I want plus the price gotta be right.

Hyundai has a higher rating, will I get one? FUCK no.

sadly sojourner- yes, u ARE lucky and an isolated incident, because u just HAPPEN to go to a dealership that does things correctly & properly. we wish ALL mazda dealerships were like that. but, unfortunately, the majority of them are NOT. and we say this from our collective experience. just because u've never had any issues w/ ur dealership doesn't automatically mean that all the dealerships are just like yours. it sounds pretty ignorant to make a sweeping generalization when you've only been to one dealership.

Do other dealers around the country not recieve this same level of attention, ensuring their cutomers are getting the best in sales and service that can be provided? I have a hard time believing that mine is an isolated incident.

sadly sojourner- yes, u ARE lucky and an isolated incident, because u just HAPPEN to go to a dealership that does things correctly & properly. we wish ALL mazda dealerships were like that. but, unfortunately, the majority of them are NOT. and we say this from our collective experience.
Unproven! "Our collective experience"??? In what way does a self-selecting group of people on a website constitute a scientific sample? We all know that the people who frequent such places are hardly typical, and skew strongly towards the particularly enchanted and the particularly disenchanted.

just because u've never had any issues w/ ur dealership doesn't automatically mean that all the dealerships are just like yours. it sounds pretty ignorant to make a sweeping generalization when you've only been to one dealership.Sounds equally ignorant to make a sweeping generalization based on anecodotal evidence from a bunch of people on a website. How many Mazda dealerships are there in America, and how many do you have evidence, even anecdotal, on? That's a mighty sweeping statement you make, that the majority of Mazda dealerships do not do things correctly and properly. I require your evidence.

JD Power is the devil and you are all mulligans. But thats ok, because I accually care about all my customers. I have to go to that little icon to find the hidden RX8 surveys, and I do often. Frankly, I wish they included the RX8 surveys because the majority of mine are good!

Just to bash Mazda some more, I found this identical 2004 STORY (http://www.cartype.com/page.cfm?id=465&alph=ALL&dec=ALL) Some of the quotes look like they could have been made in 2007 for this years report. I like this one

" As John Mendel, COO of Mazda North American Operations, puts it: "You can't treat people like crap and expect them to keep coming back to you."

or this one

"Mazda is starting a comprehensive program to bolster customer loyalty. Steve Odell, senior managing executive officer of Mazda Motor Corp., cites three elements of that effort: better product, more exclusive dealerships and better treatment of customers in the back shop.

2 1/2 years later and things are still the same :wtf:

ok- i rephrase. not collective.

but, in just my local area (greater los angeles), i've already read about & talked to enough people from this club to know that 3 out of 5 mazda dealrships are shit for service- not even including my own bad experience. if this were bumb fuck middle america- then ok. but, this is a densely populated metropolitan area- the biggest port on the west coast and one of the biggest cities in the country.

I find these surveys to be biased. If they polled all Mazda owners and asked them "Would you buy another Mazda". I think they would come up with a different bottom line. A lot of this is dealer related, IMO.
I would not go back to the dealer I bought the car from at anytime for anything. They lied to me and treated me like apiece of crap after the purchase.
The dealer that I take my car to now will do ANYTHING to make me a "Satisfied Customer".
And they have. All warranty issues have been handled to my satisfaction, cutomer relations are simply wonderful.
If I was asked if I would buy another Mazda from the dealer I bought the car from, the answer would be NO.
If I was asked to buy another Mazda from my current dealer I would say NO. (they are more expensive).
I would shop for a the best deal. Then I would take the car to the dealer with the best service.
As stated before not all dealers treat customers the same.
I don't know if you guy's have read the thread from ZOOM44? LINK (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=112316)
Here is another one from the same source,,,
PaddockTalk (http://www.paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=50876)
These give a good idea as to where Mazda is going. Mazda is saying,,,

"- Strengthen the product lineup by introducing products that reflect the voice of the customer. Improve customer satisfaction at all touchpoints.
- Accelerate development of next-generation dealerships that are consistent with Mazda's brand strategy. Improve sales productivity at exclusive dealers.
- Strengthen marketing initiatives to deepen relationships with Mazda's younger customer base.
- Work toward gaining 100 percent control of distributors in the United States and Canada."

Sounds like Mazda is going to try and improve customer satisfaction. That is a god thing in my book,as well as handle the "Dealerships".

If JD Powers asked me if I would buy another MAZDA I would say yes
"I will buy my 8th Mazda without reservation!"

MAZDA FTW! :ylsuper:

ok- i rephrase. not collective.

but, in just my local area (greater los angeles), i've already read about & talked to enough people from this club to know that 3 out of 5 mazda dealrships are shit for service- not even including my own bad experience. if this were bumb fuck middle america- then ok. but, this is a densely populated metropolitan area- the biggest port on the west coast and one of the biggest cities in the country.The mazdausa site lists 7 dealerships for los angles. You haven't even proven that most dealerships in LA suck, let alone in America or worldwide.

I will instantly grant you that there are *too many* that suck. But that's vastly different from claiming "most".

I probably wouldn't buy a Mazda as my next car. I've had no problems or issues with the service departments, but the 8 is the only thing that Mazda has, that I would buy. If I wanted a sedan, it wouldn't a 6. If I wanted a wagon/hatch it wouldn't be a 3. I would never want an SUV(glorified minivan), so... And I never replace a car with a newer version of it. Where's the fun in that? I would consider a used NB though.

Besides, all these consumer surveys seem biased toward the negative anyway.

Well the Chicago Tribune just had an article about JD Power's study on customer retention by auto maker. They survived 138,360 customers as to weather they would replace a vehicle with one of the same make. drum roll please........

Out of 36 auto makers rated Mazda finished 35th! the only auto maker rated lower was Isuzu. didn't even know they still made cars.

Well I guess Mazda strategy of ignoring major problems, blaming obvious problem on the customers, penny pinching, and all around indifference to customers is really paying off for them.....Well done Mazda, keep up the good work.

Zoom, Zoom Doom.

I thought an arrogant "screw you" attitude towards the customer after a sale was restricted to Mazda Australia only.

Seems the Oz attitude is gaining momentum across the Pacific

shame hey!!

Good one Expo, I laugh every time I read these fantasies. If only they didn't have to put in time, money and effort to achieve this Mazda would have been right on target.

Just to bash Mazda some more, I found this identical 2004 STORY (http://www.cartype.com/page.cfm?id=465&alph=ALL&dec=ALL) Some of the quotes look like they could have been made in 2007 for this years report. I like this one

" As John Mendel, COO of Mazda North American Operations, puts it: "You can't treat people like crap and expect them to keep coming back to you."

or this one

"Mazda is starting a comprehensive program to bolster customer loyalty. Steve Odell, senior managing executive officer of Mazda Motor Corp., cites three elements of that effort: better product, more exclusive dealerships and better treatment of customers in the back shop.

2 1/2 years later and things are still the same :wtf:

Talk is cheap, they have been saying this for the last two and a half years yet the latest surveys have shown no improvement and personal experience collaborates this. I'm about to bring my car in for the 3rd time to fix the same door rattle.

I find these surveys to be biased. If they polled all Mazda owners and asked them "Would you buy another Mazda". I think they would come up with a different bottom line. A lot of this is dealer related, IMO.
I would not go back to the dealer I bought the car from at anytime for anything. They lied to me and treated me like apiece of crap after the purchase.
The dealer that I take my car to now will do ANYTHING to make me a "Satisfied Customer".
And they have. All warranty issues have been handled to my satisfaction, cutomer relations are simply wonderful.
If I was asked if I would buy another Mazda from the dealer I bought the car from, the answer would be NO.
If I was asked to buy another Mazda from my current dealer I would say NO. (they are more expensive).
I would shop for a the best deal. Then I would take the car to the dealer with the best service.
As stated before not all dealers treat customers the same.
I don't know if you guy's have read the thread from ZOOM44? LINK (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=112316)
Here is another one from the same source,,,
PaddockTalk (http://www.paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=50876)
These give a good idea as to where Mazda is going. Mazda is saying,,,

"- Strengthen the product lineup by introducing products that reflect the voice of the customer. Improve customer satisfaction at all touchpoints.
- Accelerate development of next-generation dealerships that are consistent with Mazda's brand strategy. Improve sales productivity at exclusive dealers.
- Strengthen marketing initiatives to deepen relationships with Mazda's younger customer base.
- Work toward gaining 100 percent control of distributors in the United States and Canada."

Sounds like Mazda is going to try and improve customer satisfaction. That is a god thing in my book,as well as handle the "Dealerships".

If JD Powers asked me if I would buy another MAZDA I would say yes
"I will buy my 8th Mazda without reservation!"

MAZDA FTW! :ylsuper:

I can totally see Mazda having crappy customer retention.
In my purchasing experience with the RX8, I found one Mazda dealer I would never go to again because of slimy business practices. I found another dealer with people who used to work at the aforementioned dealership who left precisely because of that fact.
The fact is, there are dealers out there who absolutely don't give a shit about the product they're selling, maintaining, servicing, whatever. All they care about is the cash you're putting in their pockets and the bigger problem is MNAO as does nothing about these dealers.

Do I love my RX8, hell yes.
Would I buy another Mazda, hell yes.
Do I get good service with my current dealer, absolutely.
But I do see where this retention problem is coming from. It's not the product. It's the dealers.

Nissan has horrible dealers too by the way. The refuse to fix stuff and the finance dept. tries to rip you off. That's why I won't buy a Nissan. I'm hoping Mazda is better- so far so good.

I have found through experience that the people who complain the most about a survey are usually the ones negatively effected by it. That fact that Mazda has been painted in a negative light and you have bought several Mazdas may be tainting your ability to view this information with out bias.
And the fact that you bought a single car that does not perform as you wish, that does not taint your view?

There are Mazda dealers (cough-John Hine Mazda in San Diego-cough) I will never set foot in again due to poor sales experiences, poor service, poor mechanics, even if the car I was getting was for $10,000 off. Did it taint my view of Mazda??? No... but I am sure it would to many consumers.

Yet they sell more Mazda's in San Diego area than any other dealer. Do you think that Mazda is going to cut off a dealer that sells 2 to 3 times more cars than any other in the area?

And see again that is the problem with JD power ratings. They don't reflect the real questions, the real problems. Only recently did they even start doing blind polling.

Funny my '8 has so far been as reliable and trouble free as my Toyota and probably more reliable than any Lexus I have owned and 5 times more reliable than any honda I have owned.

And much more reliable than any BMW I own. Yet too listen to you...you would think that Mazda makes the worst product in the world.

Yet all manufacturers are scored under the same rules so this point is moot when comparing one company to another.

I was mostly trying to make the point that JD Power is inaccurate in general. But because Mazda is a small volume, inexpensive brand (like Isuzu), Mazda dealerships are not paid nearly as much attention from their owners as a Lexus or BMW dealership. So, your average Mazda dealership won't have marble floors or expensive pastries in the waiting room and these attributes will negatively affect a JD Power survey.

I think the JD Power survey is inherently flawed because the customer can let such intangible feelings effect their survey.

MNAO has much less control over a dealership then most people think. It is more of a reactive approach than a proactive. It is a VERY time consuming and expensive process to terminate a dealership, so Mazda tries to reward the things that dealers are doing right rather than punishing the ones for doing something wrong. Someone like Red McCombs, who makes billions from his dealerships, is going to pay a lot more attention (and money) to the big volume stores than a Mazda store that sells less than 100 new cars a month. Why spend thousands on improving a Mazda dealer facility when they only bring in a tiny amount of his profits? And you better believe the best Mazda salesmen only stay with Mazda for a short while before they move on to work at a Luxury store or a higher volume store. MNAO spends a ton of money every year on incentives to keep the best sales men and sales managers happy and at a Mazda dealership.

So, yes I think Mazda is at a slight disadvantage in the JD Power survey compared to the high volume and luxury brands, but more importantly, the JD Power survey itself is inadequate and too open to bias. I would much rather Mazda spend more money developing fun-to-drive cars than trying to bully its dealers into providing better JD power survey results. I am glad they agree with me.

Never said my view was not bias and it could very well be. The difference is I have survey data backing up my experience. Do you have anything backing up your opinion?

So the fact that a car dealer sells a lot of cars for a manufacturer makes it acceptable to provided crappy service which in the end effects long term profitability through customer attrition? If this dealer is closed down another will take it's place and will know that crappy service will not be tolerated. Service quality will increase with resulting positive effect on sales. This is business 101. Yet you prefer to accept crappy service because they sell a large volume of cars, might they not sell even more cars with good service and positive word of mouth?

It also appears that you have not heard much I have been saying. You state "Yet too listen to you...you would think that Mazda makes the worst product in the world." I never said this or that the RX was a bad car. I said I really liked the RX. It is Mazda's approach to supporting the cars that I am ripping on. Your counter arguments would be far more effective if you understood the issue under discussion.

And the fact that you bought a single car that does not perform as you wish, that does not taint your view?

There are Mazda dealers (cough-John Hine Mazda in San Diego-cough) I will never set foot in again due to poor sales experiences, poor service, poor mechanics, even if the car I was getting was for $10,000 off. Did it taint my view of Mazda??? No... but I am sure it would to many consumers.

Yet they sell more Mazda's in San Diego area than any other dealer. Do you think that Mazda is going to cut off a dealer that sells 2 to 3 times more cars than any other in the area?

And see again that is the problem with JD power ratings. They don't reflect the real questions, the real problems. Only recently did they even start doing blind polling.

Funny my '8 has so far been as reliable and trouble free as my Toyota and probably more reliable than any Lexus I have owned and 5 times more reliable than any honda I have owned.

And much more reliable than any BMW I own. Yet too listen to you...you would think that Mazda makes the worst product in the world.

First off what you talk about would reflect on the sales experience, which Mazda also rated very poorly on. We are talking about retention which relates to happiness with the vehicle, customer service, ect....

Also lets factor out the big money luxury manufactures you mentioned, that still leaves Mazda on the bottom of the list against manufacturers in its field.

No matter how hard you try to make excuses for Mazda it boils down to the same thing. They are the worst rated manufacture with regards to service experience and customer retention.

If Mazda was supporting the car and correcting problems like they should, I would be the first in line to buy another. As I had said I was all set to buy a C7 but after experiencing the crap Mazda's service has put me through forget it. I will go to a manufacture that will value me as a customer.

I was mostly trying to make the point that JD Power is inaccurate in general. But because Mazda is a small volume, inexpensive brand (like Isuzu), Mazda dealerships are not paid nearly as much attention from their owners as a Lexus or BMW dealership. So, your average Mazda dealership won't have marble floors or expensive pastries in the waiting room and these attributes will negatively affect a JD Power survey.

I think the JD Power survey is inherently flawed because the customer can let such intangible feelings effect their survey.

MNAO has much less control over a dealership then most people think. It is more of a reactive approach than a proactive. It is a VERY time consuming and expensive process to terminate a dealership, so Mazda tries to reward the things that dealers are doing right rather than punishing the ones for doing something wrong. Someone like Red McCombs, who makes billions from his dealerships, is going to pay a lot more attention (and money) to the big volume stores than a Mazda store that sells less than 100 new cars a month. Why spend thousands on improving a Mazda dealer facility when they only bring in a tiny amount of his profits? And you better believe the best Mazda salesmen only stay with Mazda for a short while before they move on to work at a Luxury store or a higher volume store. MNAO spends a ton of money every year on incentives to keep the best sales men and sales managers happy and at a Mazda dealership.

So, yes I think Mazda is at a slight disadvantage in the JD Power survey compared to the high volume and luxury brands, but more importantly, the JD Power survey itself is inadequate and too open to bias. I would much rather Mazda spend more money developing fun-to-drive cars than trying to bully its dealers into providing better JD power survey results. I am glad they agree with me.

So you're trying to equate "how well mazda has been doing" (which presumably means their sales numbers) with their customer retention rate? First off, their numbers in America aren't great. Second why can't you have both being true? Perhaps most of their new sales are by new customers. Doesn't explain away the bad customer retention numbers.

Not trying to flame Mazda, but your logic is faulty.

Mazda's numbers in the US are pathetic really, perhaps thats why Mazda Japan want to own and take control of wholesaling/distribution by 2010.

So who are the owners of MNAO now?

Bad customer retention numbers do not necessarily point to a poor product, more like poor dealer (retail) service and training.

In Australia Mazda's customer retention is very high and MMC Japan controls and own distribution/supply..like Mazda New Zealand.

So as soon as Mazda Motors Japan takes 100% control of Mazda America(s) (Formerly MNAO) the better.

How is that possible?

Dads From Russia....with Love

No matter how hard you try to make excuses for Mazda it boils down to the same thing. They are the worst rated manufacture with regards to service experience and customer retention.

I wasn't really trying to make excuses for Mazda. I just think the JD Power survey is dumb and inaccurate, along with anyone who judges a manufacturer based mostly on its JD Power scores. But from what I can see here, no one is doing that, so things are not that bad.

dam.........I knew Those dam dealers sucked, I just didn't think it was this bad..........but their car sales is pretty good........maybe the survey was taken in Alaska?

My unscientific findings:

Mazda Service is poor - 5 dealers and counting.
Mazda Sales is hit/miss. Really depends on the Sales Rep.
Mazda product? For the most part - really good - first hand experience only with the RX-8, friends with other Mazda products are happy.

Is the JD Power relevant? I would say more so that our continued whining about how bad we are treated. Who are the members on this board anyway? What percentage of Mazda owners do they represent?

But, one thing you can't ignore is the value and importance of personal referrals.

Just in my small sphere of influence I figure Mazda has lost out on the opportunity of at least 4 new car puchases since March 2004. One particularily interesting story is a friend who is a current mazda customer was refused a test drive for an RX-8. In a second attempt to arrange a test drive, he contacted another dealer, confirmed a car was available - drove 45 minutes, only to be refused. What did he do? Bought a 3 series Bimmer the very same day. I don't understand the attitude? Another guy, drives a TT - shows up in a TT for a test drive - dealer refuses. These examples are AFTER the car was out for a while and dealers were allowing test drives - well - some dealers at least.

Why didn't these people purchase Mazda but went looking somewhere else? Not because of the product. Merely my dealer experiences. From the time I picked up the car, to the present issues I am struggling with - I can't say without reservation - This dealer X is amazing - sales, service, they will look after you.

I know it's not me as I have received awesome service from Chrysler, and Acura.

One of the members on this board, who just happens to be a dealer manager said it best to me "You enthusiasts are a bunch of babies - you expect perfection in product and service. We just don't offer that. Take your car somewhere else to be serviced" What he was trying to say is that the service guys are just grease monkeys who fix mazdas all day long. To them your baby is just another PITA RX-8 that requires service. Why should they treat your precious car any different than say a soccer driving minivan mommy?

My immediate response is - regardless of who comes in and what mazda product they purchased they should treat the customer with respect, and their car with respect, as they may just have a customer for life. Whether is is a 3, or an RX-8, a customer is a customer. They sometimes can be the best advertising available.

Does this kind of attitude cross over many dealers? I think yes. Regardless of which brand you buy. We have all heard of evidence of a MB owner being treated badly....

Sadly, this is a state of the industry. I don't understand the attitude regarding service departments when the dealer owners are constantly whining about decreased margins, and that the only profit centre for them is sales and service?

Well - if your only profit centre is from service and parts - why not attract customers and keep customers?

Seems like basic business to me. In my experience - Mazda doesn't get it.

My experience influences many others, and them too many others. Is it scientific? No. Is it effective? Hell yes.

Mazda would be very wise to look after their current customer base as no matter how hard we try - if you want a NEW MAZDA, you are almost certainly going to have to deal with the dealer at some point.

Mazda's numbers in the US are pathetic really, perhaps thats why Mazda Japan want to own and take control of wholesaling/distribution by 2010.


I'm not sure that's even legal in the US thanks to antitrust laws*, unfortunately. If it were, I can't imagine how there would be any independent auto dealerships left. Customer service is critical, and the most obvious way to rein in shitty dealers would be to quit selling to them, and build your own corporate store.



* I'm not 100% but I think antitrust laws apply. Movie theaters used to be owned by the studios. Tickets and especially refreshments were cheaper, theaters were better staffed, etc. Then in the late 30's it was discovered that antitrust laws applied, and they had to split up. Since theaters are essentially "dealerships" for movies, I imagine the same rules apply to carmakers.

I'm not sure that's even legal in the US thanks to antitrust laws*, unfortunately. If it were, I can't imagine how there would be any independent auto dealerships left. Customer service is critical, and the most obvious way to rein in shitty dealers would be to quit selling to them, and build your own corporate store.

* I'm not 100% but I think antitrust laws apply. Movie theaters used to be owned by the studios. Tickets and especially refreshments were cheaper, theaters were better staffed, etc. Then in the late 30's it was discovered that antitrust laws applied, and they had to split up. Since theaters are essentially "dealerships" for movies, I imagine the same rules apply to carmakers.

I know you have different Antitrust laws in the US to Australia, I am not sure how that applies as being a Wholesale Mazda Distributor Owned 100% By Mazda Japan they do not own or operate ANY Retail Mazda Dealers, so there are NO competition issues here?.
Their position is to support independently owned dealers with their product (cars and parts) training, promotions and marketing.
They do not compete in any way for the Vehicle Purchaser and do not correspond with owners apart from Recall notices they leave ALL communications to their Retail Dealer Network.

It would be a very slow process to weed out bad performing dealers in sales or fixed operations (Service or Parts), but it can be done.

So, who actually are the owners of MNAO, does anyone here know.????

[QUOTE=Raptor75]Never said my view was not bias and it could very well be. The difference is I have survey data backing up my experience. Do you have anything backing up your opinion?

I can also give you an opinon :flamed: :ar: :Kill1: :uzi: :rl: ...

I've never had a drama with Mazda...it must have something to do with how you approached them. Hint - you attract more bees with honey than vinegar. :fight:

Re-think your attitude. :grouphug:

This car will also probably be my first and last Mazda. From the sales experience to service, it has been terrible overall.. I would love to get another Mazda if I could take it somewhere else for service. But the service expertise of my dealer is limited to reading a printout from some computer. Which is a shame, cause I love the car itself.. blah..

I can also give you an opinon :flamed: :ar: :Kill1: :uzi: :rl: ...

I've never had a drama with Mazda...it must have something to do with how you approached them. Hint - you attract more bees with honey than vinegar. :fight:

Re-think your attitude. :grouphug:It still puzzles me why this site attracts so many whiners. :icon_no2: