Having made the decision to give the car back to Mazda I have spent the past 2 weeks test driving several potential replacement cars. There is no rhyme nor reason to the cars I drove other than they interested me in some way. When I give one car the advantage over the other it is simply my opinion as to which I'd rather own. My thoughts follow:

1.) Acura TSX 6 Speed - A car I feel is not on par with the RX8 either in looks or performance. Mushy clutch longer throws. Horsepower is rated at 200 but did not impress me with acceleration performance. Seemed no torquier than mine either. Interior was no great shakes although I did like the voice command. Advantage: Mazda.

2.) Nissan Maxima 3.5 litre. You just gotta love all that torque! This thing was a brute even with the automatic tranny. Certainly much heavier feel than the RX8 and not nearly as fun in the twisties but would provide a very pleasant commute to work and to distant cities. Interior was pleasant surprise and exterior has some nice angles but the cheap plastic grille has got to go. Fully loaded is about 2 grand more than mine but offers nice amenities.
Advantage: Push

3.) Honda Civic Hybrid Electric. Okay, I was curious. After getting 16 mpg I wanted to feel what 60 mpg would drive like. Definitely low on power but acceptable in-town normal driving push. Honda quality inside and out (a good thing). If I were smart I'd save $13,000 on the purchase price and $1,500 annually in gas. Just no fun. Advantage Mazda.

4.) Mitsubishi Lancer EVO. Runs like a bat out of Hell. Great straight-line performance, great cornering ability. If I were 25 years old I'd overlook the super cheap interior, blocky exterior, loud engine, tire and wind noise and piss poor Mitsubishi reliability and go with this one. Not being 25 I have to pass. Advantage: Mazda.

5.) Audi A4 1.8t Convertible. What a gorgeous car. Beautiful, high quality interior, nice looking exterior with the top down. So-So with the top up. Performace lacking compared to the RX8 but more than adequate for highway and city commuting. Breaks very well. Rag top is primo quality and folds seamlessly away. This feature adds $7,000 to the price making it $6,000 more than the RX8 but would be a great, fun car to own. Advantage: Audi

6.) Mercedes CLK 320. Other than the new SL, this is maybe the best looking Mercedes ever. I love the exterior from every angle and could not have been more impressed with its gorgeous interior. Too many really cool, useful amenities to mention. Head turning appeal I noticed was all that the RX8 is (only for different reasons). Ride is typical heavy Mercedes, power is only adequate given such a heavy car, breaking is quite good. Cost is $16,000 more than the $33,000 RX8 but all you need do is shut the bank vault doors and you'll see where the money went. Advantage: Mercedes (as well it should be at this price).

7.) Infinity G35C. Like the Maxima, one deliciously torquie engine. Literally explodes off the line. Interior quality is leaps and bounds higher than the 350Z and noise level is considerably lower. Not as agile as the RX8 but breaks very nicely. Exterior I think looks great but give the slight edge to Mazda. More practical commuter at the expense of a little bit of fun on the twisties. Great car. Cost is about $3,000 higher than the RX8. Advantage: Infinity.

I've looked at Toyota 4Runners, Tundras, Nissan Muranos and several others but did not test drive. The 4Runner would be the only one of these I'd seriously consider.

After taking my test drives and returning to my car I always find salesmen crowded around it. And, more often than not, I get into my car thinking that it is so much nicer than what I was just looking at.

So why sell it back? :confused:

Originally posted by Wave
So why sell it back? :confused:

Because I REALLY love the Audi and the Mercedes! That, and as I've argued too many times already, I'm convinced that if I want another RX8 I can get it for thousands of dollars less in December/January than what I paid in August.

Infinity G35C. Like the Maxima, one deliciously torquie engine. Literally explodes off the line. Interior quality is leaps and bounds higher than the 350Z and noise level is considerably lower. Not as agile as the RX8 but breaks very nicely. Exterior I think looks great but give the slight edge to Mazda. More practical commuter at the expense of a little bit of fun on the twisties. Great car. Cost is about $3,000 higher than the RX8. Advantage: Infinity.

...I dunno... I test drove this one too (6-speed of course) and honestly, while the (straight line) performance was a bit better than the RX-8, it was certainly far from "exploding off the line". In fact, I did not have the feeling of having some 280 HP under the hood - not by a long shot. The G35C is heavier than the RX-8, and you can feel it - especially while cornering.
Regarding the interior, I couldn't disagree more. I had the feeling that the interior of the G35C is OK, but what bothered me is way too much plastic and the cheap materials they use at several spots. For instance, that silver-painted plastic center console... ugh. And did you try to press on the interior lights (to turn them on)? The whole headliner was bending, giving the same low-quality feel to it (and no, I wasn't pressing hard).
One more thing: those stupid frameless windows with the auto up/down feature... they will be one of the first things to cause trouble with wear and break. Thumbs down...
I like many things the G35C has to offer (looks included), but decided against buying it. Expensive too.

Originally posted by Tamas


...I dunno... I test drove this one too (6-speed of course) and honestly, while the (straight line) performance was a bit better than the RX-8, it was certainly far from "exploding off the line". In fact, I did not have the feeling of having some 280 HP under the hood - not by a long shot. The G35C is heavier than the RX-8, and you can feel it - especially while cornering.
Regarding the interior, I couldn't disagree more. I had the feeling that the interior of the G35C is OK, but what bothered me is way too much plastic and the cheap materials they use at several spots. For instance, that silver-painted plastic center console... ugh. And did you try to press on the interior lights (to turn them on)? The whole headliner was bending, giving the same low-quality feel to it (and no, I wasn't pressing hard).
One more thing: those stupid frameless windows with the auto up/down feature... they will be one of the first things to cause trouble with wear and break. Thumbs down...
I like many things the G35C has to offer (looks included), but decided against buying it. Expensive too.

Remember, I was comparing the G35C interior to the 350Z interior, not the RX8. 350Z is plastic from one side to the other. I do think the leather seats are much more luxurious than the RX8's, with its leather inserts and vinyl/rubber? side bolsters.

I liked the Audi too. I live where it snows and the 4wd would save a lot of headaches. But during the test drive, I put my foot to the floor, and, well... I got the RX8. Nice car tho.

get the mercedes

There's an article in the October Automobile comparing most of those cars you listed. They are all nice, but I was surprised to see that most cars gas mileage wasn't much higher than the 8's.

My vote for you would be the EVO- that thing must be a blast to drive. Who cares about the space. If you are looking at the G35 coupe, and have the 8, you're probably not that worried about the backseat anyway.

Actually, I agree with you in everything, except the G.

I just drove my friends G again, and I think it is one impressive car. Lots of balls, right now. I think the interior is pretty good too, slightly above the 8. BUT, the car it is not 5,000 bucks better.

oddly enough, my friend loves my 8.

Go figure.

By the way, try a wrx, see what you think. I would love to know! I drove a sti and a evo, and while they are both fast, I felt kind of silly, like I was trying to be 18 again!! Call me old, but I want a more compliant ride, and a interior that is not out of the early 80s.

Like my pa always said, the name of the game is class, not crass!

Get the CIVIC!!!!!! :D

Tomster - since you looked at the TSX and the Maxima, what about a TL-S? I hear what's left of them are going super-cheap b/c of the upgraded body style coming out (someone blurted out $27k for fully loaded/navi new, that would be quite a deal).

Looking at that list bums me out again. Does anyone else wish there were more light-weight, nimble, reliable rwd coupes/coupe-ish type cars out there? :(

Originally posted by blizz81
Tomster - since you looked at the TSX and the Maxima, what about a TL-S? I hear what's left of them are going super-cheap b/c of the upgraded body style coming out (someone blurted out $27k for fully loaded/navi new, that would be quite a deal).

Looking at that list bums me out again. Does anyone else wish there were more light-weight, nimble, reliable rwd coupes/coupe-ish type cars out there? :(

Yes, namely one with RX-7 written on it! :cool:

You many want to also try out the 2004 Acura TL 6-speed. (Brembo brakes, 3.2L 270 hp V6). Interior Bluetooth technology and DVD Audio system. Should be just as fast as the Maxima and in the same price range. Goes on sale in October.

While I'm living vicariously :D ...

Did you try an Infiniti M45? How about a Volvo S60R? Those are a bit more pricey than most of your other choices, but cheaper than the Mercedes.

On the other hand, supposedly the S60R is also underpowered. Bad year for Ford, eh?

Originally posted by FamilyGuy
While I'm living vicariously :D ...

Did you try an Infiniti M45? How about a Volvo S60R? Those are a bit more pricey than most of your other choices, but cheaper than the Mercedes.

On the other hand, supposedly the S60R is also underpowered. Bad year for Ford, eh?

Looked at the Volvo S60R and loved it. At $42,000 its about $6,000 less than the Mercedes. My fear is that it will be worth about $24,000 this time next year.

I definitely plan on checking out the 2004 Acura TL-S next month. Looks so much better than last year's model.

I've looked at the WRX STi and, although I'd love the 4 wheel performance, it's really a car for boys under 25 years old. As is the EVO. Crappy, cheap interiors do nothing for me.

I appreciate the suggestions guys. Sounds like you all love looking at cars too! I'm surprised there's not Wanted Posters at my dealerships saying not to let this guy drive our cars.

Originally posted by TomsterRX8



I've looked at the WRX STi and, although I'd love the 4 wheel performance, it's really a car for boys under 25 years old. As is the EVO. Crappy, cheap interiors do nothing for me.

.

I totally agree with that, evo too!!!

The Accord Coupe EX-V6 6 sp mt with a complete aero kit and spoiler is a nice ride as well. Not comparing it to the smaller body styles similar to the others models discussed, but it's a fun car with 240 hp. It handles great. Took it on the same test drive route I drove the 8 on and was pretty smooth. NO, not comparing it to the 8 before anyone blasts me. The 8 obviously is much better handling. But if you bought the 8 (as I did) because of the 4 seat factor, the Accord is a nice ride for that purpose and still keep quality and style, and yes some HP too.

Yes, namely one with RX-7 written on it!


At least here in the US, I think I'd have to go back to the 2nd gen for the reliability I'd look for :)

My wish was more for NEW cars. But I am considering an S14 coupe as a budget-backout kind of car, in case I can't afford to or am too afraid to plunk down the $ on an RX-8 when the opportunity comes :)

Tomster - did you look at the G35 sedans when you looked at the coupe? I believe they're a bit cheaper in price.

The G35 Sedan is also coming in AWD models in December.

Originally posted by WilliamT
The G35 Sedan is also coming in AWD models in December. That's a car I'd never buy. Me no likely AWD.

Originally posted by Hercules
That's a car I'd never buy. Me no likely AWD.

Why not have an open mind? :confused:

I loved the mitsu gsx, hell I owned two in a row!! Cornered like it was on rails!

Originally posted by klegg
I loved the mitsu gsx, hell I owned two in a row!! Cornered like it was on rails!

Really, I heard it was a so-so handling cars from some of the Mitsu guys? I know it was pretty quick in stock form (and very modifiable) and looked great.

Handeled well, especially in corners. Ride was very harsh. First gen was better then secound, drove like a racing cart.

did not compare to the 8, though.

2nd gen was more bloated, more upscale, but lost a little soul.
still a nice car

Mitsu screwed up when they stopped the gsx. They handled it wrong, said lots of really dumb things, really alienated some very loyal custemers, me included

Originally posted by klegg
Handeled well, especially in corners. Ride was very harsh. First gen was better then secound, drove like a racing cart.

did not compare to the 8, though.

2nd gen was more bloated, more upscale, but lost a little soul.
still a nice car

Mitsu screwed up when they stopped the gsx. They handled it wrong, said lots of really dumb things, really alienated some very loyal custemers, me included

Oh, I agree with the revamping of the Eclipse (3rd or 4th generation???) into a bloated GT. Totally turned it into a chick car. :mad:

Originally posted by klegg
Handeled well, especially in corners. Ride was very harsh. First gen was better then secound, drove like a racing cart.

did not compare to the 8, though.

2nd gen was more bloated, more upscale, but lost a little soul.
still a nice car

Mitsu screwed up when they stopped the gsx. They handled it wrong, said lots of really dumb things, really alienated some very loyal custemers, me included

I had a first-gen GSX and loved driving it, particularly in Seattle where the streets are wet so often. The viscous coupling and LSD was a great pairing. I loved throwing it in to a corner (off camber even moreso) and hit the gas and see the car for from typical front-driver understeer to rear-driver neutral or oversteer.

HOWEVER...Mitsu doesn't stand behind their cars. Their service sucks. Their reliability sucks! They suck!

After getting the GSX transmission rebuilt four times during warranty, and shortly after the warranty expired, some of the synchro's started going out (again!!). I escalated all the way to the national service director and they all told me to get lost. Bastards! Anyway, I traded that thing in and the Mitsu dealership's (that had been servicing it and who had originallyt refused the post-warranty claim) buyer actually bought it at auction. Upon seeing my old car on the lot, the service manager apparently told the buyer, "Tell me you didn't buy THAT car!" They had to repair it--at their own cost--to market it. When they had the tranmission on the bench and pulled the cover off, it fell into a hundred pieces. Cost the $1,700 to fix. Talk about Karma!

Anyway, it is now my mission in life to talk people out of ever buying a Mitsubishi (how am I doing so far?).

This post is turning in to a novel...

Tomster, about the drop in the value of a Volvo as soon as you drive it off the lot, you are right and that (and the fact my wife hated my 850 turbo) is a reason I won't be getting a Volvo any time soon. I traded that 850 in on the 8. At the time of the trade in, I had about three or four warning lights on that were all related to the electrical issues (TRACS/ABS, Climate Control, etc.).

after seeing silver8's post, I had to chime in...

yep, please do not buy a Mitsu :mad: I had a 2001 Eclipse GS (hardly a performance/sporty car). The quality is so-so but the customer service is simply nightmare...I will never buy another mitsu

if not for bad experience with their service/customer service, I would be in an EVO VIII right now (one of my dream cars)

Okay, my last post was getting too long, not to mention the fact it was pretty much off topic...

I too am looking at possible replacements for the 8. In the last week I have driven a 540 6-speed, a 330 5-sp, a couple of tiptronic 330's--all were a couple years old because I want to stay in the same price range as the 8. With the Certified Pre-Owned program, BMW tacks on two years and 40K to the factory warranty, making the used Bimmers pretty attractive.

Tomster, have you considered any BMW's? Given your interest in the 320, I would imagine price isn't an issue.

I have never owned a BMW and being an avid car-mag reader for the last 25+ years, I am wondering why they always review them so well. That said, none of the cars I have recently driven handled as well as the 8. But, the 540 had way more power, though gear shift throws seemed to be measured in feet as opposed the the 8's that can be measured in inches. I guess that means I need to go find a slightly-used 540 Tiptronic to test. The 330 5-speed seemed to be very-closely powered to the 8, but again, didn't handle as well and had those ridiculously long gear-throws (there's a short-shift kit available for the 5-series, but I don't know if one's available for the 3) and didn't handle as well.

What I would love is to go drive a two-year old M3 and then convinvce myself that it's worth another $7-$10K more than what I spent on the 8. I just don't like the idea of dropping $40+ on a depreciating liability.

Originally posted by balajc
after seeing silver8's post, I had to chime in...

yep, please do not buy a Mitsu :mad: I had a 2001 Eclipse GS (hardly a performance/sporty car). The quality is so-so but the customer service is simply nightmare...I will never buy another mitsu

if not for bad experience with their service/customer service, I would be in an EVO VIII right now (one of my dream cars)

Its pretty known that there is a big discrepancy in quality between Mitsu's built in Japan and the US. Luckliy, the EVO's parts are from Japan and its assembled entirely there. Still, reliability should be a concern when purchasing any Mitsu product IMHO.

why wouldnt you like awd
My friend has 3rd gen gsx--great car

Originally posted by silver8
Okay, my last post was getting too long, not to mention the fact it was pretty much off topic...

I too am looking at possible replacements for the 8. In the last week I have driven a 540 6-speed, a 330 5-sp, a couple of tiptronic 330's--all were a couple years old because I want to stay in the same price range as the 8. With the Certified Pre-Owned program, BMW tacks on two years and 40K to the factory warranty, making the used Bimmers pretty attractive.

Tomster, have you considered any BMW's? Given your interest in the 320, I would imagine price isn't an issue.

I have never owned a BMW and being an avid car-mag reader for the last 25+ years, I am wondering why they always review them so well. That said, none of the cars I have recently driven handled as well as the 8. But, the 540 had way more power, though gear shift throws seemed to be measured in feet as opposed the the 8's that can be measured in inches. I guess that means I need to go find a slightly-used 540 Tiptronic to test. The 330 5-speed seemed to be very-closely powered to the 8, but again, didn't handle as well and had those ridiculously long gear-throws (there's a short-shift kit available for the 5-series, but I don't know if one's available for the 3) and didn't handle as well.

What I would love is to go drive a two-year old M3 and then convinvce myself that it's worth another $7-$10K more than what I spent on the 8. I just don't like the idea of dropping $40+ on a depreciating liability.


Not to rain on anybody's parade, but....

your reviews go like this.. It is good, but not quite as good as the 8. I like it , but the 8 is better etc.

Then why get rid of the 8? Sounds like the best car for the money. And you are comparing it with most of it's competition.

(this from someone who does not own one)

he's got a point there

I found out about the buyback offer (through this forum) the day after I purchased the RX-8. After thinking about the possible resale value issues, since I trade almost yearly, I decided to take Mazda up on the buyback. A couple of days later I called the 1-800 number about the buyback offer, rather than waiting on my letter to arrive. I got through almost immediately and spoke with Mike. He sent me the papers for the buyback to sign and return. I was then connected with Emma, who processed all the other papers involved and who is in the process of cutting the checks for the payoff of the loan and the return of my down payment. In the meantime I wasted no time test-driving various coupes and made my final decision on what to replace the RX-8. Here's the G35 Coupe that I purchased a few days later, while the RX-8 awaits repurchasing beside it.

Wow that Mike guy must get most of the calls at Mazda.I talked to him today, sent my buy back papers in. I like the 8 but the poor gas mileage and power issue and MSRP it had to go. Let us know how your experience goes with the g35, I was sold on one until I sat in the back seat. I am 5'6" and my head hits the glass window in the back. The GC has great power in the six speed and a great sound as well. I may have to look at them again when I get the 8 sold back.

awesome
congrats on the g35
that was my 2nd choice

I played with the idea and have shopped again like you. We have looked at many of the same cars. Your last statement of the salesmen crowding around your RX 8 upon return is exactly what has happened to me. It also makes a statement regarding the appeal of the Mazda.

I drove the 350Z and the G35. The ride was ROUGH in comparison and much noisier in the Z. I did not like the shift effort required and the car was smaller. I also called my insurance company and the car insurance is $124.40 more every year and it need premium gas. It just is not the better car - torque yes, overall no. There is more to a car than just all out speed. How fast can one drive to work anyway? The G35 is more toward luxury and heavy feel. THere is the Nissan rumble in the ride like the Z car - road noise and medium jarr. The Nissans IMO have a much less refined ride and the large amount of painted plastic interior makes one fearful of scratches.

<p>I too am shopping for a performance car (no hurry though). It's been interesting to learn other people's opinions. Looks like many of us are looking for the same or similar qualities in cars.</p><p>I have a couple of questions:</p><p>For <b>RX8Tim</b>:</p><p>I have test driven two cars so far: RX-8/MT (twice) and G35C/AT. I liked RX-8 handling better and I did not feel much more power in G35C. That could be because the G was AT. Also it's hard to compare cars unless you can drive them on the same roads and freely. Since you are in a unique position (having both cars), could you provide more detailed comparison on these cars handling/performance?</p><p>For <b>TomsterRX8</b>:</p><p>You probably did not try to drive BMW 330ci this time around since you owned one in the past. I wanted to try it myself but it turns it is not that easy to find one with stick for a test drive. You have to know RX-8 and 330ci well. Could you compare those two? Are you not looking into buying another 330ci? If so, why?</p>

MrRed: In response to your questions about the comparisons of the two cars, the G35 Coupe and the RX-8...I would have to say the following applies:

I seem to get great compliments on both cars from the public when I am driving either one of them. The "under 30" age group seems to be especially fond of the RX-8. I went to a restaurant and drove the RX-8 there that evening and when I came out to my car, the parking lot had been taken over by younger guys looking at my car and waiting on the owner (me) to come out and let them take a look at it. The G35 seems to draw the attention of a wide variety of ages, but mostly 30 and above.

The G35 is definitely more focused on luxury. It does ride softer than the RX-8 and the engine performance seems greater too. The handling is better in the RX-8. The G35 is not bad though. It just feels heavier through the steering wheel, compared to the RX=8. Both cars are equally quiet on the interior. I love to hear the sound of that rotary engine whining under the hood in front of me, compared to the silent engine in the G35. I do love the dash and console layout of the RX-8 MUCH better than the G35. The dash of the RX-8 comes alive at night, compared to the bland amber lights of the G35. I have the navigation system on both cars. The one on the G35 is easier to use than the RX-8. I like the G35's "bird's eye" view through the navigation screen.

The fuel economy on the G35 is averaging about 23 MPG, compared to about 16 on the RX-8. I can go many more days in the G35 before feeling like I need to add fuel to the tank.

I love the styling of both cars, but the RX-8 probably has the better design. I love the lines of the RX-8. It is what attracted me to check out the car in the first place.

Overall, I would love to be able to keep both cars. The G35 was originally my second vehicle choice for this year. Maybe Mazda will take care of some of the issues regarding horsepower, fuel economy and other miscellaneous things this year and I'll be in the market to buy another one in a year or so. I still enjoy keeping in touch with things going on here on this forum and hope to check in here often, even after the RX-8 leaves my garage and finds a new home sometime soon.

I would have opted for the A4 Cabriolet..

now THAT is a beautiful high quality car... interior is superb and it looks great with the top up or down. Definitely a luxury car and in a totally different class from the RX-8..

The RX-8 is more of a driver's car. The A4 Cabriolet is more about class/luxury and is great socal chill-out beach lover's type of car. very classy with acceptable handling and performance.

Originally posted by Squidward
I would have opted for the A4 Cabriolet..

now THAT is a beautiful high quality car... interior is superb and it looks great with the top up or down. Definitely a luxury car and in a totally different class from the RX-8..

The RX-8 is more of a driver's car. The A4 Cabriolet is more about class/luxury and is great socal chill-out beach lover's type of car. very classy with acceptable handling and performance.

Makes me wish they would turn around an offer an A4 coupe.

Originally posted by 350 Formula



Not to rain on anybody's parade, but....

your reviews go like this.. It is good, but not quite as good as the 8. I like it , but the 8 is better etc.

Then why get rid of the 8? Sounds like the best car for the money. And you are comparing it with most of it's competition.

(this from someone who does not own one)

Damn, rain again!!!

The 8 is a really good car with many strong points--handling, looks, layout, uniqueness. No doubt about it, there are things I like about the car.

But, there are things I don't like about it as well, most of which have been posted elsewhere. One of my main objections is to practicality limitations of the poor mileage and small gas tank. I have days where I will put 150+ miles on the car. That means I have to have a full tank in the morning and fill it up on the way home if I want more that 50 miles of range left in the tank for the following day.

And. something else that's a factor is the lack of a loaner car at the dealership. I hadn't thought about this before buying, but it's something I have had with my last two cars covering nine years.

Also, I have had the recurring appearance of the oil light when climbing hills at freeway speeds. And the oil sheen on all flat surfaces in the engine compartment. And it's a real pain getting the back seat belts buckled when my daughters' car seats are back there...it negates the convenience of the freestyle doors.

Am I wishy-washy in my posts? Absolutely! But, putting it in writing is a Ben Franklin method of sorts to make a decision.

I've been away on vacation in Colorado and am just now reading questions to me.

Blizz81 - I have not considered the G35 sedan as I find it rather uninteresting looking. The coupe looks much more appealing to me. The sedan is a bit too "mom-ish".

Silver8 - I have considered other BMW's, primarily the new 5 Series when it comes out in October. Unfortunately, I understand the base price is way up for the new model bringing the cheapest 530 with any decent options to a price of around $53,000. It's supposed to be a wonderful car but I still have to get my child through college in a couple of years.

MrRed - I have not considered getting another 330Ci even though it was easily the best car I've ever owned. I always get tired of any car I own after a couple of years....except for the BMW 330. I actually appreciated it more and more each day. Sold it to be able to afford a car for my daughter. Stocks owned have been kind this past couple of months which is why I'm looking at pricier cars again. But not the 330.....I guess its a been there. done that attitude. That and there are about 30,000 of the damn things being driven all around Austin.

It was nice being on vacation and not thinking about cars for a change. Am currently no closer to a decision.

I would recommend the Subaru Legacy actually. With a cheap chip you will be pumping out reliable 300+whp in no time. The G35C is also a nice choice but the price has been dangling around MSRP for the last 2 years with no signs of letting off. Exploding off the line? Nah, it's more of a crazy flat torque curve that gets you going without too much drama.

I dunno, I figure he made his choice oh, about a year ago when he first posted....

...