Upon cold startup (engine has sat overnight), there is this one, very short squeak/chirp that only sounds when the engine fires up. I know it is not the air pump because I just had a failing air pump replaced. I know it's not pinging because I run 91 ocatane.

As I understand it, oil/grease on the belt will causes squeals/squeaks. I'm guessing it may be a little oil on the belt? If so, what's the best way to clean the belt?

FS

that's just the 12 volts hitting the hamster :cwm27:

http://images.inmagine.com/168nwm/brandxpictures/l282/bxp134164.jpg

.

Ever notice it on light throttle application from idle?

It is actually a kind of knock as the ignition timing is shuffled around.
When you first start the motor, the leading plug is fired really early.

Its normal.

I'll have to disagree with MazdaManiac on this one, if you are hearing what I have heard since I got the recall reflash.

Definitely a chirping sound, not a knocking sound. I've had it for about 20K miles now. I never heard it prior to the reflash (which also made my car start harder, not better). Quite a while ago, I posted an audio clip of what I hear on startup (although due to sound quality, it's not as 'chirpy' as what I hear.

Here's the link:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?p=1637967#post1637967

are you talking about a sound like this? (turn up the volume, it happens within the first two seconds):

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5000965511031036891

Yes, it is a "chirp". That is what this kind of detonation sounds like.
Its a real quick "fingernails-on-chalkboard" kind of sound.

are you talking about a sound like this?
That's the one!

Yes, that sounds like it, although it sounds like you have a double-chirp :)

What's the horrible screeching sound? That's worse than fingernails on a blackboard!

Yes, it is a "chirp". That is what this kind of detonation sounds like.
Its a real quick "fingernails-on-chalkboard" kind of sound.


That's the one!

So why have I never heard this in my 50K miles before the reflash? Not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand. If it's normal, then was my car 'not normal' for the first 50K miles?

BTW, I have friends at work with RX-8s. They don't chirp...

What's the horrible screeching sound? That's worse than fingernails on a blackboard!

WHAT?! You mean yours doesn't do that? Mine's been doing that since I changed to synthetic oil! OMG.

you can really hear it on most aftermarket intakes, unless I'm hearing a different kind of chirp, or maybe that's a whistle

Yeah, there's a notice from mazda about customers complaining about a whistling noise - it basically says to assure the customer it's normal. It's caused by air going past a jet air mixing tube or something like that. I searched but couldn't find it :(

With the stock box, it's muffled to the point that I never noticed it. When you have an intake with a much more direct route to the outside, you can hear it fairly well.

My audio clip has 3 noises, the chirping at startup, the constant whistling, and the bov.

I also have a similar sound. But it's more metal-on-metal sounding.

Hmm, this morning it did not chirp (maybe due to warmer weather). When it does, it sounds exactly like khoney's sound clip! The google video isn't exactly what mine sounds like. Ideas?

FS

You know what? I had the same thing this morning when I started up. I have a stock intake. Since there are some many others doing it too I'm gonna say it is normal.

You know what? I had the same thing this morning when I started up. I have a stock intake. Since there are some many others doing it too I'm gonna say it is normal.

Ahhh, another thing to add to the "normal" list :(

[QUOTE=khoney]I'll have to disagree with MazdaManiac on this one, if you are hearing what I have heard since I got the recall reflash.

Definitely a chirping sound, not a knocking sound. I've had it for about 20K miles now. I never heard it prior to the reflash (which also made my car start harder, not better). QUOTE]

I agree. The latest Flash brought this sound and reduced fuel mileage.

Well I don't see how it's really a problem or anything. :arcadefre

EDIT: I mean the chirp sound not the gas mileage.

This must be the canaries in a blender noise. It happens at the start and goes away once the blender is turned on :P

[QUOTE=khoney]I'll have to disagree with MazdaManiac on this one, if you are hearing what I have heard since I got the recall reflash.

Definitely a chirping sound, not a knocking sound. I've had it for about 20K miles now. I never heard it prior to the reflash (which also made my car start harder, not better). QUOTE]

I agree. The latest Flash brought this sound and reduced fuel mileage.

My sentiments exactly. I just want to know if there is something wrong with the car that the new flash has brought to the surface. My car takes a lot longer to start than before the reflash, so I'm thinking there is something that changed in the flash that works well if the car doesn't have a problem, and perhaps creates chirping and long starts if there's something wrong...

I'll reiterate this for my fair audience at the "Short Attention Span Theater" - The "chirp" that is clearly recorded in the audio samples above is caused by a kind of detonation that occurs as the timing advance changes during the low RPM of start-up.

Often, you can hear this sound when you take off in first from an idle as well as the same thing is happening.

It is caused by the ignition timing and it is "normal".

The reason some people hear it and some don't is because of a number of factors (attentiveness being one of them), including the fact that, since this is a kind of detonation, some engines will be more sensitive to it than others.
It is not damaging because the load on the motor at that moment is extremely low.
The new flash may have increased the occurance of this by significantly changing the ignition timing. This may also lead to hard starts.
One of the most important factors in idle emissions is ignition timing. Mazda may have been trying to offset the increased emissions of increased oil injection by advancing the idle timing.

My sentiments exactly. I just want to know if there is something wrong with the car that the new flash has brought to the surface. My car takes a lot longer to start than before the reflash, so I'm thinking there is something that changed in the flash that works well if the car doesn't have a problem, and perhaps creates chirping and long starts if there's something wrong...


Now you're just being paranoid.

I can't see how it is detonation as it DOES NOT OCCUR when hot! It only makes the noise on the initial start in the morning. It does take longer to start (thankfully the new starter can handle that!).

Any NOISE that originally wan't there when new cannot be good!

Add me to the list of people who get the "chirp" only after the last reflash. Engine starts with a lot more gusto now (once it does start). Sound to me like the engine is starting suddenly and with a big rush, and maybe the noise is from rpm rapidly overrunning the starter. Or maybe that's my imagination.

My engine is stock, and still have the old-style OEM 2004 starter.

As far as longer start, I chalk that up to the ECU now programmed to not deliver fuel for a short time during start, to avoid flooding and allow crank rpm to build up before making fuel available. I'll settle for a few extra cranks if it avoids no-start problems and/or fouling.

I can't see how it is detonation as it DOES NOT OCCUR when hot! It only makes the noise on the initial start in the morning. Detonation has nothing to do with heat. It simply means combustion at the wrong time.
What is happening is the spark is so advanced that right as the engine starts to come up to speed, the combustion that starts at the trailing plug is actually trying to force the rotor backwards. It is the "fight" that you are hearing for that one revolution right before engine speed is high enough to sustain itself.

I'll reiterate this for my fair audience at the "Short Attention Span Theater" - .


:xyxwave:

Detonation has nothing to do with heat. It simply means combustion at the wrong time.
What is happening is the spark is so advanced that right as the engine starts to come up to speed, the combustion that starts at the trailing plug is actually trying to force the rotor backwards. It is the "fight" that you are hearing for that one revolution right before engine speed is high enough to sustain itself.

I understand detonation, But then what you are saying is that the timing is REALLY advanced during a COLD START? That doesn't make any sense, since it does not happen when 'hot'. IS the timing not as advanced or even retarded when hot?

How come the car did not do this when new, and only AFTER the latest flash, which seems to have not made any improvement.

I am serirously trying to understand how this noise, the longer start and the reduction in fuel economy is "nothing to be concerned with". (can you use the term 'fuel economy' when discussing the RX-8? - lol)

I'll reiterate this for my fair audience at the "Short Attention Span Theater" - The "chirp" that is clearly recorded in the audio samples above is caused by a kind of detonation that occurs as the timing advance changes during the low RPM of start-up.

I haven't forgotten you said this previously, and if you carefully read my post, you'll see that I was looking for an explanation of causality after] the new flash, i.e. why a 'normal' sound, as you call it, would not have been there previously.

Often, you can hear this sound when you take off in first from an idle as well as the same thing is happening.

It is caused by the ignition timing and it is "normal".

I have never heard that...

The reason some people hear it and some don't is because of a number of factors (attentiveness being one of them), including the fact that, since this is a kind of detonation, some engines will be more sensitive to it than others.

It is not damaging because the load on the motor at that moment is extremely low.

I can clearly hear this with the windows up. In fact, it is rather loud. If it had been there prior to the reflash, I would have noticed it. It was not.

The new flash may have increased the occurance of this by significantly changing the ignition timing. This may also lead to hard starts.
One of the most important factors in idle emissions is ignition timing. Mazda may have been trying to offset the increased emissions of increased oil injection by advancing the idle timing.

OK, so you've finally answered my question... "the new flash significantly changed the ignition timing". Maybe now you can answer another one. Two reflashed RX-8s are sitting next to each other in the parking lot - both engines are cold. One chirps loudly on startup, the other doesn't make a peep. That would indicate a significant timing difference between the two, would it not? What are the possible causes of this timing difference?

I appreciate your input on this (except for the 'attention span' thing), and I'm just trying to get a better technical understanding of why some cars chirp and others don't. For instance, my car has 72K miles on it - could a coil pack be going bad, causing the ECU to compensate in such a way that the car chirps? Stuff like that is what I'm wondering about...

I understand detonation, But then what you are saying is that the timing is REALLY advanced during a COLD START? That doesn't make any sense, since it does not happen when 'hot'. IS the timing not as advanced or even retarded when hot?

...

My car chirps whether it's hot or cold...

OK, so you've finally answered my question... "the new flash significantly changed the ignition timing".
Don't mis-quote me. Go back and re-read that.


Maybe now you can answer another one. Two reflashed RX-8s are sitting next to each other in the parking lot - both engines are cold. One chirps loudly on startup, the other doesn't make a peep. That would indicate a significant timing difference between the two, would it not? What are the possible causes of this timing difference?If you had looked at what you quoted from my post, you would see I answered that as well.

Sorry, not seeing it... as well as being inattentive and having a short attention span, I must be dumb as a post, too. Can you please point it out for me?

Never mind, I guess this is the 'sensitivity' thing.

So, in a nutshell, if your car chirps, it's normal. If your car doesn't chirp, it's normal.

OK, I can rest easy now...

You even quoted my answer to your question in your post #27!

I'm buying a gallon of WD40. Will post back my results once I'm done.

I'm buying a gallon of WD40. Will post back my results once I'm done.
Good one!

Let me know where to apply it. Should I use a hose-end sprayer? Maybe it'll get rid of my clutch squeaking, too!

Get a Wagner Power Painter for $30. Then have at it. By the time you're done and test it out, you will not notice any squeaking!

Of course, your engine might be on fire... but that's something we can address when we get to it.

WHAT?! You mean yours doesn't do that? Mine's been doing that since I changed to synthetic oil! OMG.

Now that you mention it, mine's been doing this since I switched back to dino! Hmmm... It's all starting to make sense now... ;)

Well, I managed to make my chirp go away. I replaced all 4 ignition coils and installed Magnecor plug wires on Saturday. Results:

1) No more chirp on startup.
2) Startup is about twice as fast as before.
3) Idle is much smoother. The car used to shake when the AC compressor kicked on, now it desn't even hiccup.
4) General power delivery is much smoother - I honestly feel like I'm driving a new car.

Now, one thing I have to say is that I can't definitively say it's the plugs and coils that made the difference. I was most of the way through the install and pulling off the last plug wire, and it seemed like I didn't have to pull as hard. Perhaps it was loose - I'm not sure. But if it was, it would have had to have been that way for a long time (at least 20K miles).

Unfortunately, I can't enjoy my 'new' car for a while. I got T-boned this afternoon and received significant damage to the driver's side.

Bummer about the crash.

Coils are important.

Your Magnacores are BS, but they probably wont hurt anything.

3) Idle is much smoother. The car used to shake when the AC compressor kicked on, now it desn't even hiccup.

Exessive vibration has to do with a recall Mazda issued due to a collapsed motor mount.

Exessive vibration has to do with a recall Mazda issued due to a collapsed motor mount.
Been there, done that.

Looks like I probably won't have to worry about it anymore - I think they're going to total the car...

Bummer about the crash.

Coils are important.

Your Magnacores are BS, but they probably wont hurt anything.

Physically, the old coils didn't look that bad - I've meant to bring home the multimeter to test them, but got distracted...

It's a shame I only got to use my new gear for a day :(