sorry if its a repost, but mazda topped the list for reliability, i was amazed.

http://www.topgear.com/blogs/planettopgear/024-cant-get-no-satisfaction/http://www.topgear.com/blogs/planettopgear/024-cant-get-no-satisfaction/

i'm not surprised at all, overall mazda does build high quality cars, all the fuss posted here are exaggerated small cases that don't show the overall picture

I am surprised that they beat Toyota and Honda, but only because Honda and Toyota are so good. Really, Mazda's quality seems pretty high. Even the RX-8, which has a poor image for quality, is pretty good in most cases. I'm very satisfied with the quality of my RX-8, which has only had very minor issues, and I EXPECT a car to have a few teething issues.

Trying to combine surveys from the UK and the US does not give you an accurate picture of the situation in either country. Almost every single car you can buy in America differs from every single car in the UK -- even if they're the same make and model. For example, look at Ford. Their cars are like night and day in the UK and the US. And the majority of Ford's in the US are trucks. They're mixing apples and oranges here.

Also they're comparing cars that are at least 3 years old which almost completely (if not entirely) excludes the RX-8 from the discussion.

In the US, Mazda is almost dead last in every customer satisfaction category from J.D. Power & Associates. You are smoking something if you think that it's only a few cry babies on this forum that are unhappy.

This report is useless.

i'm not surprised at all, overall mazda does build high quality cars,


yes they do,I been very happy with the mazdas i've own.

Mazda won with only 8.04% breakdowns, which is hardly surprising - their cars are superbly built.

love that quote

In the US, Mazda is almost dead last in every customer satisfaction category from J.D. Power & Associates. You are smoking something if you think that it's only a few cry babies on this forum that are unhappy.

This report is useless.

Link?

My sister drives a Mazda 3 and loves it. I have the RX-8 and love it. We have not had any issues. I have always seen Mazda rated very highly in customer sat scores.

Finally someone who agrees with me!!

Can we please dispel the myth, once and for all, that VW makes reliable cars? Judging by the results posted here, VWs are relatively dodgy. Like BMWs, in fact, which only score 18th at 28.64%.

God VW's and BMW's are not reliabe cars! Personal experience and reading. I don't know why Ford and GM can't shake the unreliable image and why VW and BMW seem to be able to shrug it off??

Thats because they sold so few RX8s.

Thats because they sold so few RX8s.

Hey, we get it.

You've had problems with your 8. That's unfortunate, and I hope you get it all resolved with some semblance of satisfaction.

You do not need to create 5 threads a day about it, though, do you?

What? Read this forum. Unhappy owners abound.

Hey, we get it.

You've had problems with your 8. That's unfortunate, and I hope you get it all resolved with some semblance of satisfaction.

You do not need to create 5 threads a day about it, though, do you?

don't worry - he won't be around much longer if he keeps up this constant crap

sorry if its a repost, but mazda topped the list for reliability, i was amazed.

http://www.topgear.com/blogs/planettopgear/024-cant-get-no-satisfaction/http://www.topgear.com/blogs/planettopgear/024-cant-get-no-satisfaction/


Yes mate you have, this info was posted by Zoom last month in General Auto,
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?p=1728430&posted=1#post1728430
you have posted this in RX-8 Media News?...where does your info specifically refer to RX-8. :)

Trying to combine surveys from the UK and the US does not give you an accurate picture of the situation in either country. Almost every single car you can buy in America differs from every single car in the UK -- even if they're the same make and model. For example, look at Ford. Their cars are like night and day in the UK and the US. And the majority of Ford's in the US are trucks. They're mixing apples and oranges here.

Also they're comparing cars that are at least 3 years old which almost completely (if not entirely) excludes the RX-8 from the discussion.

In the US, Mazda is almost dead last in every customer satisfaction category from J.D. Power & Associates. You are smoking something if you think that it's only a few cry babies on this forum that are unhappy.

This report is useless.

What crap...Saturn... :)
More than anything its a good indication of Mazda's reliability as Almost ALL if the cars are manufactured from the same plants (except the US Mazda 6).
On the flip side, to use your example of Fords, what Fords does the UK have that are made in the USA...nil.

Over the years almost every other survey I have seen have Mazda in the top 2,
I can't speak for America on the J.D Survey as to why they are near last, probably more to do with the SERVICE they receive from their Dealers, rather than the RELIABILITY of the car itself.


Even TopGears own surveys over the years have Honda and Mazda in the top 2, and this includes RX-8'.

The Warranty survey is on the BRAND, not on specific models, Trucks, SUV's,or RX-8's.

What? Read this forum. Unhappy owners abound.

You derserves your BANNED title.

HAVE A GOOD ONE.

Im happy with my Mazda, Oh yes My Rx8 can smoke yo ass!

no wonder our 8s feel like theyre running on double cream

Interesting information. I take it Toyota does not market under the Lexus brand in the UK?

Every Mazda I have owned since 87 has been without any factory related problems, with the exception of my 87 RX-7 which had cat converter Heat sheild issues, but that wouldn't have shown up in the Top gear report anyway. That includes my current RX-8, and mutiple past RX-7s, and 626s.

I can't say the same for my Tacoma which needed new shocks at 30K miles (but has been very relaible other than that).

And my BMW X5 while reasonably reliable, has had dumb issues like bad MAF or gauge cluster digit failure.

So based on my real world experience I would say that report was exactly right.

What crap...Saturn... :)
More than anything its a good indication of Mazda's reliability as Almost ALL if the cars are manufactured from the same plants (except the US Mazda 6).
On the flip side, to use your example of Fords, what Fords does the UK have that are made in the USA...nil.

Over the years almost every other survey I have seen have Mazda in the top 2,
I can't speak for America on the J.D Survey as to why they are near last, probably more to do with the SERVICE they receive from their Dealers, rather than the RELIABILITY of the car itself.


Even TopGears own surveys over the years have Honda and Mazda in the top 2, and this includes RX-8'.
I forgot that Mazda makes almost all their cars in Japan unlike many other manufacturers (including Honda, Toyota) that make many cars domestically in the U.S. This helps eliminate the disparity between build quality of the same cars in different countries.

My example about Ford is that say Ford does an amazing job at building trucks (which they clearly do), but makes terrible cars in both the UK and US. Well, if they build many more trucks than cars their survey scores are going to be inflated because of all the truck scores. If all I care about are cars, how does this help me at all? The same is true if one company does a great job with their cars in the UK and a bad job in the US. The combine scores can be misleading.

And you're definitely right about the dealerships. But customer satisfaction, which is what really matters at the end of the day, sucks right now for Mazda in America. There cars may in fact be more reliable than most, but they don't seem to have a very good framework of dealers set up in the US to help solve the minor problems before they escalate into bigger problems that cause people to give the car company as a whole bad scores.

Link?

My sister drives a Mazda 3 and loves it. I have the RX-8 and love it. We have not had any issues. I have always seen Mazda rated very highly in customer sat scores.
Just search the forum. I've posted about this before with links. I'm too lazy.

And in case you weren't paying attention they surveyed cars from 3-9 years old. There are very few RX-8's that fit that range. Thus, this high reliability score for Mazda probably doesn't even consider the RX-8 at all.

Just search the forum. I've posted about this before with links. I'm too lazy.

And in case you weren't paying attention they surveyed cars from 3-9 years old. There are very few RX-8's that fit that range. Thus, this high reliability score for Mazda probably doesn't even consider the RX-8 at all.

I'm not sure if RX-8s would have dropped that score that much. My guess is the definition of a problem in this survey is different than JD Power's. Remember, if you're unsatisfied with the gas mileage you can write that as a problem in JD Power's survey, even if you're getting 20 mpg and you just didn't research the car.

Even "hypothetically" if you want to include ALL cars say in the warranty survey from new to 9 years which would include ALL RX-8's the outcome would not change, or at the very worst move Mazda again hypothetically to second place as there is a country mile between Honda (actually second) and Toyota with double the breakdowns in 3rd., why because the number of RX-8's made and sold is only .5% of Mazda's production, to put it in another way, there are just not enough 8's to change the overall results.

I don't pay attention to these surveys, because nothing is guaranteed, and it depends on the model more then the company as whole itself many times, and either good luck or bad luck. As far as I am concerned , my Speed 6 is a toss up, much like my RX8 was, only this time I hope to be on the winning end. ;)

The fact is that Mazda needs to be near the top 5 consistently and for many years for this to really have solid validity. Mazda fluctuates, which tells you that it can go either way for people, and is purely subjective. If and when they stay near honda and toyota for many years, that's when I'll actually believe this survey. For now, I'm 100% neutral on this, and I hope I am fortunate enough this time to have a reliable Mazda. :)

What? Read this forum. Unhappy owners abound.

So do happy ones.

Gawd--to think that I considered Saab and Audi and VW and Mercedes . . . . .before deciding to buy another Mazda.

--My other car is a 2001 MX-5--

I'm not sure if RX-8s would have dropped that score that much. My guess is the definition of a problem in this survey is different than JD Power's. Remember, if you're unsatisfied with the gas mileage you can write that as a problem in JD Power's survey, even if you're getting 20 mpg and you just didn't research the car.
That same logic can be used against any car in the industry. No one researches -- everyone complains. It wouldn't be an isolated phenomenon to Mazda alone.

Mazda is a Japanese car company. I would buy from any Japanese car company before I'd buy from any other country. This is because they have a much better reputation that has been built up over time. However, I would be very worried about getting an RX-8 in particular because of the bad dealership support history I've read about here and several other places. Though, much like Viking if I wanted the car bad enough I'd probably buy it and hope to get lucky (with the dealer and reliability). I personally think this whole paragraph is a philosophy many people share. This survey doesn't really sway me one way or the other.

I'm not sure if RX-8s would have dropped that score that much. My guess is the definition of a problem in this survey is different than JD Power's. Remember, if you're unsatisfied with the gas mileage you can write that as a problem in JD Power's survey, even if you're getting 20 mpg and you just didn't research the car.
Yep, that is the key. JD power's surveys are of the customer, asking if they have had problems, or like the car.

If you had a rattle from a pen in the glove box, but you thought that it was just the glove box rattling, that would mark down the JD power score. Same thing if you hit a curb and had a tire get a buldge. That would count against a postive JD power score.

Yet this Top Gear one, is based on service calls. So if you took your car in for an oil leak, or a busted shock, that would count against the score.

JD power scores are as one sided as a washington lobbist.

Yep, that is the key. JD power's surveys are of the customer, asking if they have had problems, or like the car.

If you had a rattle from a pen in the glove box, but you thought that it was just the glove box rattling, that would mark down the JD power score. Same thing if you hit a curb and had a tire get a buldge. That would count against a postive JD power score.

Yet this Top Gear one, is based on service calls. So if you took your car in for an oil leak, or a busted shock, that would count against the score.

JD power scores are as one sided as a washington lobbist.
The logic in this thread is astounding.

It's all relative. If JDP scores one manufacturer low because lots of people complain about stupid stuff then the same would be true for all manufacturers. No company is immune from stupid people complaining about stupid things.

Also, we're talking about degree here. Who cares if you only ever have one problem during the entire time you own your car if that one problem is a blown engine that won't be covered under warranty.

I understand that reliability and satisfaction don't always go hand in hand. Saturn (the car company, not me) had very high satisfaction scores, but their cars were pieces of crap. When I owned one I was totally satisfied with the dealer -- I learned to hate the car though.

All that being said the thing that pisses me off is that so many people wait to hear some good piece of news about Mazda and/or the RX-8 and then completely dismiss all logic and reason just so they can feel good about themselves and their purchase. Then you wonder why people buy RX-8's with misinformation when you're busy walking down the street singing the praises of the all-mighty, incomprehensibly reliable car that is the RX-8.

Whatever. I give up. Teh RX-8 is teh fastar in tha twi$ties and nevar bre@ks d0wn!111!!!!!!!

The bottom line is:
Learn how each study (survey) was conducted. Every survey has gaps and should be interpretted accordingly. There is no such thing as a "golden ruler" except your interpretation of it. <-- I wonder if that makes sense.

Finally someone who agrees with me!!

Can we please dispel the myth, once and for all, that VW makes reliable cars? Judging by the results posted here, VWs are relatively dodgy. Like BMWs, in fact, which only score 18th at 28.64%.

God VW's and BMW's are not reliabe cars! Personal experience and reading. I don't know why Ford and GM can't shake the unreliable image and why VW and BMW seem to be able to shrug it off??
The difference is, when you sit in a VW or BMW, it at least gives the appearance that it is finely crafted of quality materials (even if it isn't). Most Fords have no such allusions (even if underneath the cheap plastics and panel gaps it is quite dependable). I think Ford is improving, I'm not trying to bash them. German cars just feel so solid it lends a sense of security.

I don't pay attention to these surveys, because nothing is guaranteed, and it depends on the model more then the company as whole itself many times, and either good luck or bad luck. As far as I am concerned , my Speed 6 is a toss up, much like my RX8 was, only this time I hope to be on the winning end. ;)

The fact is that Mazda needs to be near the top 5 consistently and for many years for this to really have solid validity. Mazda fluctuates, which tells you that it can go either way for people, and is purely subjective. If and when they stay near honda and toyota for many years, that's when I'll actually believe this survey. For now, I'm 100% neutral on this, and I hope I am fortunate enough this time to have a reliable Mazda. :)

I don't know where you see Mazda "fluctuates" in surveys, for more years than I care to remember they have been in the top 5, and in the last 10 years top 2..
I am talking ...Australia,NewZealand,Germany,England,Netherland s,Japan, but the USA have different Mazda's, or those surveyed by J.D Power..

Another reason why Mazda are now more consistent.. almost 96% of their product comes out of Japan. Honda and Toyota have many plants on other continents.

The logic in this thread is astounding.

It's all relative. If JDP scores one manufacturer low because lots of people complain about stupid stuff then the same would be true for all manufacturers. No company is immune from stupid people complaining about stupid things.

Also, we're talking about degree here. Who cares if you only ever have one problem during the entire time you own your car if that one problem is a blown engine that won't be covered under warranty.

I understand that reliability and satisfaction don't always go hand in hand. Saturn (the car company, not me) had very high satisfaction scores, but their cars were pieces of crap. When I owned one I was totally satisfied with the dealer -- I learned to hate the car though.

All that being said the thing that pisses me off is that so many people wait to hear some good piece of news about Mazda and/or the RX-8 and then completely dismiss all logic and reason just so they can feel good about themselves and their purchase. Then you wonder why people buy RX-8's with misinformation when you're busy walking down the street singing the praises of the all-mighty, incomprehensibly reliable car that is the RX-8.

Whatever. I give up. Teh RX-8 is teh fastar in tha twi$ties and nevar bre@ks d0wn!111!!!!!!!

Come on Saturn.... ;)
While I will agree with your thoughts here, the last two paragraphs I wont.
Yes there have been some issues of engine failure, and a few recalls, but NO more than any other brand.
Toyota's 3.5 million sludge engines.
Nissan Z owners with high oil use/short motor replacements, trannies.

The overwhelmingly majority of Mazda's and RX-8 owners love their cars.

The logic in this thread is astounding.

It's all relative. If JDP scores one manufacturer low because lots of people complain about stupid stuff then the same would be true for all manufacturers. No company is immune from stupid people complaining about stupid things.

Also, we're talking about degree here. Who cares if you only ever have one problem during the entire time you own your car if that one problem is a blown engine that won't be covered under warranty.

I understand that reliability and satisfaction don't always go hand in hand. Saturn (the car company, not me) had very high satisfaction scores, but their cars were pieces of crap. When I owned one I was totally satisfied with the dealer -- I learned to hate the car though.

All that being said the thing that pisses me off is that so many people wait to hear some good piece of news about Mazda and/or the RX-8 and then completely dismiss all logic and reason just so they can feel good about themselves and their purchase. Then you wonder why people buy RX-8's with misinformation when you're busy walking down the street singing the praises of the all-mighty, incomprehensibly reliable car that is the RX-8.

Whatever. I give up. Teh RX-8 is teh fastar in tha twi$ties and nevar bre@ks d0wn!111!!!!!!!

And what amazes me is the number of members here that just bash because they don't agree with something some else says.

my post had nothing to do with logic, but instead pointed out that while JD Power rates based off of consumer responses while the Top gear report is based off of actual repairs.

And as far as bashing the 8 and calling it unreliable, lets face it. The population of this board is hardly indicative of the real world owners. Even if 60% (a rather generous number I would expect) of the 31,775 members here actually owned a RX-8 (probably under 15-20,000 actual owners not including the number of members driven away because of flaming, bashing and not wanting to deal with the few outspoken idiots on this board) Anyway, of those left and actually owning cars; how many have posted problems???20%? 10% 5%??? and what percentage would that be when comparied to actual cars sold?

Pretty fucking minimal.

Come on Saturn.... ;)
While I will agree with your thoughts here, the last two paragraphs I wont.
Yes there have been some issues of engine failure, and a few recalls, but NO more than any other brand.
Toyota's 3.5 million sludge engines.
Nissan Z owners with high oil use/short motor replacements, trannies.

The overwhelmingly majority of Mazda's and RX-8 owners love their cars.
You're saying you don't agree with my statement that "teh RX-8 is teh fastar in tha twi$ties"? I'm pretty sure that's true.

If nothing else this survey is interesting in how much in conflicts with other rating systems. I personally do not agree with the assessment that the JDP numbers are skewed by random people complaining about irrelevant issues. I'll file it under "things to think about" and leave it at that.

Hey Saturn, how do you feel about your RX8?

You're saying you don't agree with my statement that "teh RX-8 is teh fastar in tha twi$ties"? I'm pretty sure that's true.

If nothing else this survey is interesting in how much in conflicts with other rating systems. I personally do not agree with the assessment that the JDP numbers are skewed by random people complaining about irrelevant issues. I'll file it under "things to think about" and leave it at that.

What other rating system(s) does it conflict with Saturn..apart from JDP

YI personally do not agree with the assessment that the JDP numbers are skewed by random people complaining about irrelevant issues. I'll file it under "things to think about" and leave it at that.
Yeah, then why did the BMW 540I get hit so bad in JD Power initial owner ratings???

Go look it up. JD powers posted it on their website a few years back.

BMW got hit with a huge number of un-satisfied owners because of the Idrive system that controls the radio, that many americans found confusing to use.

Not because the system was defective, but because american owners didn't like using a Joy stick to control radio functions. They wanted a knob instead.

The owners bought the car, presumably used the radio on the test drive, then complained about the electrical, and then when they actually distilled down the problem it was user error because they didn't like not having a bunch of knobs.

But that counted against the car in JD Powers Initial owners ratings of the car.

^^^
Icemark...I would say about 8%....

What other rating system(s) does it conflict with Saturn..apart from JDP
I was referring specifically to the last year's Consumer Reports report that placed Mazda 9th. Not nearly as bad as JDP, but not quite #1.

Hey Saturn, how do you feel about your RX8?
I feel like it let's me pwn n00bs in the twisties. I unfortunately live in an area devoid of twisties.

I feel like it let's me pwn n00bs in the twisties. I unfortunately live in an area devoid of twisties.

...and you live in a world devoid of a RX8.

...and you live in a world devoid of a RX8.
Thanks a lot. That was a secret.

If you guys want to believe that Mazda is the most reliable car manufacturer around, awesome. I don't make any money either way. I believe I've given plenty of food for thought on the subject for any new person searching for "mazda reliability". If the rest of you want to think that because I don't own an 8 I have nothing to contribute or that I'm just bashing a car for fun then so be it.

Thanks a lot. That was a secret.

If you guys want to believe that Mazda is the most reliable car manufacturer around, awesome. I don't make any money either way. I believe I've given plenty of food for thought on the subject for any new person searching for "mazda reliability". If the rest of you want to think that because I don't own an 8 I have nothing to contribute or that I'm just bashing a car for fun then so be it.

You actually contribute much. Just don't be surprised when some object to what really is an overly negative RX8 enthusiast site.

As a strategist/researcher by trade, I say that JDP results are BS. As for Mazda, I think all true Japanese manufacturers still make the most reliable products, often a product of more conservative engineering principles. That said, my old Miata was the most reliable I ever had, while my 8 is among my least reliable, though still entirely tolerable in that category. Few cars exist today that would lead me to suggest to someone not to buy it because it's "not reliable." At most, I'd apply "unproven" to some makes.

Saturn,
Your birthday is one day before mine. Therefore, you are older and wiser (assuming you were born in 1984 and before)

Few cars exist today that would lead me to suggest to someone not to buy it because it's "not reliable." At most, I'd apply "unproven" to some makes.

I agree 100%. Well said.

:) Thanks a lot. That was a secret.

If you guys want to believe that Mazda is the most reliable car manufacturer around, awesome. I don't make any money either way. I believe I've given plenty of food for thought on the subject for any new person searching for "mazda reliability". If the rest of you want to think that because I don't own an 8 I have nothing to contribute or that I'm just bashing a car for fun then so be it.
Psssssst! It isn't a secret, thus the reason for my question. But you can hang around all you want :)

Few cars exist today that would lead me to suggest to someone not to buy it because it's "not reliable." At most, I'd apply "unproven" to some makes.


Well said. The fact is that the car has to be 4+ years old to really have a proven reliability record. We just don't know, because every reliability survey is basically referring to the past. In a used car market, you have more proven validated info. Right now it's a lot of faith and speculation, because the jury is still out on many of the new cars out today. :)

I've owned several Mazdas, incluing two first gen 7's, an MX-3, a Protege and an RX-8. I've also owned a Dodge Dakota, a Subaru Outback, a Civic and now a Honda Element as well. My family has also owned many Mazdas (including several of the early RX's) and I can honestly say that Mazda's customer service and overall quality are the best out of all of them. The problem here as I see it is the attitude that some people go to the dealer with (notice I said SOME not ALL). Whatever happened to the art of conversation when it comes to dealing with the dealer? And also it seems that some do not know how to properly take care of a rotary yet. I've rebuilt at least two 12A engines that I can tell you were killed by the owners driving them like piston engines (ie no redlining and oil...you mean I have to add oil!) I'm not saying that there aren't a few bad Mazdas or dealers out there, but come on people. I come to this board to learn more about the car and pick up new ideas, not to hear the latest from those that don't even OWN THE CAR! Not saying you can't have your opinions, but until you LIVE with the car (I've owned for about six months and still find something new out about the car when I drive.) it's hard to form a good opinion of it. After all if it were just about the numbers, we would all own big V8's or WRX's.

Later
Corvus13

Well said corvus13,

How is it that Mazda can rate No.1 in JDP Survey for Germany, over "quality" brands like
BMW, AUDI, Mercedes-Benz.

But, in the JDP USA it rates close to last.???

Again Mazda No. 1-2 in UK, Australia,New Zealand,Netherlands,Japan..etc

IMO its not so much the Brand, but the fact there is SO MUCH Rework at "some" Mazda Dealers in the US...that is the issue for MNAO., also Dealer Principals or Departmental Managers who employ staff with poor technical skills, particularly how to talk to customers and mediate any conflicts.

Do not forget that Mazda has stopped including RX-8 in their customer satifaction reports...Problems I've had quite a few...but I still love her....

Do not forget that Mazda has stopped including RX-8 in their customer satifaction reports...Problems I've had quite a few...but I still love her....
We still have access to the surveys so keep filling them out. Although you guys are mulligans, we still care :)