I just watched The Speed Report (from the Speed Channel). The subject came up of Champ Car losing Ford as its engine supplier / major sponsor. The hostess - who has a history of being negative toward anything non-NASCAR - said something along the following, "Hyundai, Mazda, and Cadillac are in talks to possibly sponsor / supply engines for Champ Car. But let's face it. All three of them combined don't have the racing credibility of Ford".

My jaw dropped.

Yes, Ford has probably spent more money and time on racing than Mazda, but the gap isn't that big. And, overall I just think Mazda spends money on more interesting series than does Ford.

Oh, and no, they'll never run rotaries in Champ Car, so don't even bring it up. :mdrmed:

welcome to speedvision

When it comes to Racing, Ford sucks MAJOR COCK, period.

Mazda aint good either, but hey, they won Le Mans once ... only once ....

Hyundai ....... Cadillac ? .........

Well I'll bet Speed is cheering for Caddy 'cus they've got the same stone age approach to racing that Nascar loves so much. :sadwavey:
Go Mazda!

Let's just admit right now that they'll be running Chevy engines and move on.

Mazda aint good either, but hey, they won Le Mans once ... only once ....



That's because race officials banned the rotary after the race citing 'unfair' advantages.

Bag on Ford all you like, bug their racing history is richer than Mazda's will ever be. I also don't know why someone would say Ford doesn't participate in "interesting series". WRC, JWRC, Forumla Ford, NHRA drag racing, Indy, NASCAR, Sprint Car, SCCA, GT racing around the globe, Can-AM, Le Mans, etc., etc.

Bag on Ford all you like, bug their racing history is richer than Mazda's will ever be. I also don't know why someone would say Ford doesn't participate in "interesting series". WRC, JWRC, Forumla Ford, NHRA drag racing, Indy, NASCAR, Sprint Car, SCCA, GT racing around the globe, Can-AM, Le Mans, etc., etc.
all true!

is everyone else smoking crack? Ford tried to buy FERRARI for petes sake!

all true!

is everyone else smoking crack? Ford tried to buy FERRARI for petes sake!


And after ferrari refused.. ford assraped them with the gt40...


Most of fords production lineup is not as well suited to the track as mazdas lineup.. thats probably why you're confused.

And after ferrari refused.. ford assraped them with the gt40...


Most of fords production lineup is not as well suited to the track as mazdas lineup.. thats probably why you're confused.
oh really? Which Mazda is a factory built racecar?

oh wait, Ford has one of those.

And what track are you referring to? Most of both manufacturer's lineups are FWD, so I miss where you are smarter than me again.

Both Ford and Mazda have extremely rich racing history. Ford's extends over many more years. Mazda's is one of the most interesting in a real David and Goliath kind of way. Their accomplishments for their size and expenditure is probably un-paralleled. Mazda's dominance of IMSA GTU is legendary. I think it was 8 championships in a row and 10 years of Daytona 24hr wins in that same class even when the horsepower and torque equation was tipped far against them due to displacement adjustments to the class.

A lot of people don't know that in the same year that they won the Le Mans they also won the GTO championship with their 4 rotor powered RX7s and the driver's championship. This was against much bigger competitors including Ford, Nissan and Ferrari just to name a few.

A lot of people are ignorant of the main reason for Mazda's Rotary success which is reliability. I remember reading an article about LeMans where the writer commented that the screaming Mazdas were destined to be there at the end of the race. That's quite a testament to their durability.

Paul.

And after ferrari refused.. ford assraped them with the gt40...


Most of fords production lineup is not as well suited to the track as mazdas lineup.. thats probably why you're confused.


You got that right! The GT40 OWNED Ferrari for those few years. Bad, bad, bad kill by Ford. I have love for both Ford and Mazda's racing history. Hate Chevy...

I might be missing something, but isn't there a pretty close relationship between Mazda/Ford??

Also, doesn't Mazda supply the formula atlantic engines? I know it is a feeder series, but that's gotta be worth something, right?

Just barely related to this thread, but it was VERY encouraging to see how well those Speedsource RX8s did in the Daytona 24. I bet with a couple more years in development they could win their class.

Anyway, Ford's had their fingers in racing for a long time, even if they don't make a big stink about it. In fact, their Mustang GT (class) cars are proving to be some damn fine race cars.

I might be missing something, but isn't there a pretty close relationship between Mazda/Ford??

Also, doesn't Mazda supply the formula atlantic engines? I know it is a feeder series, but that's gotta be worth something, right?
ford owns a stake in mazda, i think around 30%.

yes mazda does supply formula atlantic, as well as star mazda.

They also have ther own Formula Mazda series... it's a lot like Formula Ford... but the cars are all Renesis powered.

They also have ther own Formula Mazda series... it's a lot like Formula Ford... but the cars are all Renesis powered.
Star Mazda

Bag on Ford all you like, bug their racing history is richer than Mazda's will ever be. I also don't know why someone would say Ford doesn't participate in "interesting series". WRC, JWRC, Forumla Ford, NHRA drag racing, Indy, NASCAR, Sprint Car, SCCA, GT racing around the globe, Can-AM, Le Mans, etc., etc.

Sorry for the novel.

I can only speak for myself, but I wasn't ripping on Ford, but on the quickly dismissed racing credibility of Mazda. Yes, they both have a rich racing history. No doubt about it. My point is directed at the answer to this question... Does Ford have racing credibility? Yes. Does Mazda have racing credibility? Yes.

"interesting series" is subjective, and I mean series that exist today, and how they exist today. Racing heritage is important especially when it comes to credibility, but let's face it. We live in a "what have you done for me lately?" kind of world.

I think ovals and drag racing are gay. However, there are no Fords in Indycar, and haven't been any in some years. They're Hondas. And the aforementioned ovals suck IMO. I admit I mostly root for Ford in WRC. In SCCA you can find all makes, so it's a bit of a wash. "GT racing" is too generalized for comment. The only series you mention specifically that I care about as a racing fan today are WRC and ALMS. And to my knowledge Ford doesn't have any teams in ALMS.

See this URL for more about the series they sponsor. You'd be as surprised as I am about the few series they support as a factory, currently.
http://www.fordracing.com/series/
Champ Car is nixed, so that leaves World Rally as the only series of interest to me.

Here is a good link for Mazda racing series.
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=mazdaSpeedMotorsp ortsMazdaRaceSeries
I'm a casual fan of Star Mazda and Champ Car Atlantic, but don't have any interest in Mazda MX-5 Cup.

Both manufacturers are represented in Speed World Challenge and Grand Am, but they must not be full-fledged factory efforts (if their web sites are accurate). I think both are well represented by these series.

Note: I'm aware that Ford has a stake in Mazda. I'm just not sure how it is that Ford can't afford to sponsor Champ Car, but Mazda can. It must be the truckload of money they spend on NASCAR. As much as I hate it, that's where the smart money goes in North America.

Sorry for the novel.

I can only speak for myself, but I wasn't ripping on Ford, but on the quickly dismissed racing credibility of Mazda. Yes, they both have a rich racing history. No doubt about it. My point is directed at the answer to this question... Does Ford have racing credibility? Yes. Does Mazda have racing credibility? Yes.

"interesting series" is subjective, and I mean series that exist today, and how they exist today. Racing heritage is important especially when it comes to credibility, but let's face it. We live in a "what have you done for me lately?" kind of world.

I think ovals and drag racing are gay. However, there are no Fords in Indycar, and haven't been any in some years. They're Hondas. And the aforementioned ovals suck IMO. I admit I mostly root for Ford in WRC. In SCCA you can find all makes, so it's a bit of a wash. "GT racing" is too generalized for comment. The only series you mention specifically that I care about as a racing fan today are WRC and ALMS. And to my knowledge Ford doesn't have any teams in ALMS.

See this URL for more about the series they sponsor. You'd be as surprised as I am about the few series they support as a factory, currently.
http://www.fordracing.com/series/
Champ Car is nixed, so that leaves World Rally as the only series of interest to me.

Here is a good link for Mazda racing series.
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=mazdaSpeedMotorsp ortsMazdaRaceSeries
I'm a casual fan of Star Mazda and Champ Car Atlantic, but don't have any interest in Mazda MX-5 Cup.

Both manufacturers are represented in Speed World Challenge and Grand Am, but they must not be full-fledged factory efforts (if their web sites are accurate). I think both are well represented by these series.

Note: I'm aware that Ford has a stake in Mazda. I'm just not sure how it is that Ford can't afford to sponsor Champ Car, but Mazda can. It must be the truckload of money they spend on NASCAR. As much as I hate it, that's where the smart money goes in North America.

Champ Car is a joke, why bother with it. It has been a dying series for the alst decade and Ford is smart to get out. Bridgestone was smart enough to get out as well. Besides, Ford owns controlling interest of Mazda, it going from Ford to Mazda doesn't really make a whole lot of difference. However, Mazda is not a title sponsor of the series like Ford was, they're just supplying the engines that Cosworth used to.

The point is, Ford has had their hand in just about every form of racing throughout the years. They can't sustain being in every single form all the time... When I said SCCA earlier I'm not talking about some guys cruising around their local parking lot. I'm talking about serious factory backed race cars. GT racing might be too generalized to you, but it's that generalized because ford has had a hand in many series throughout the world.

Just take a look at former drivers in Forumla Ford, Nigel Mansell, Ayrton Senna, Emerson Fittipaldi, James Hunt, Jody Scheckter, Michael Schumacher, Damon Hill, Jacques Villeneuve, Mikka Hakkinen, etc. etc. Champ, Star Mazda, and whatever other form of open wheel racing you can come up with aren't much a feeder series for the big leagues.

Ford can lose more money then Mazda can make and still pay their execs bonuses :rofl:

Mazda has great motors in their cars that find their way to the track. Then again Ford Zetec is in the SCCA Spec Racer. Formula Ford, hmm, wonder what motor they use? Sports 2000? If you've ever driven some of the old German Fords like the Capri or XR4Ti you might be surprised it was a ford product. Ford of Europe anyway.

We tend to know Ford for the small block part of the world, and in that world Chevy is boss.

Don't discount Ford just because the US stuff is junk. Ford's been around racing and has done a thing or two. Just don't expect a Ford motor built in the US to be fast in anything that makes right turns.

Mazda, well what do you expect from a company with a motto of "zoom-zoom"?

Both Ford and Mazda have extremely rich racing history. Ford's extends over many more years. Mazda's is one of the most interesting in a real David and Goliath kind of way. Their accomplishments for their size and expenditure is probably un-paralleled. Mazda's dominance of IMSA GTU is legendary. I think it was 8 championships in a row and 10 years of Daytona 24hr wins in that same class even when the horsepower and torque equation was tipped far against them due to displacement adjustments to the class.

A lot of people don't know that in the same year that they won the Le Mans they also won the GTO championship with their 4 rotor powered RX7s and the driver's championship. This was against much bigger competitors including Ford, Nissan and Ferrari just to name a few.

A lot of people are ignorant of the main reason for Mazda's Rotary success which is reliability. I remember reading an article about LeMans where the writer commented that the screaming Mazdas were destined to be there at the end of the race. That's quite a testament to their durability.

Paul.


Thanks for adding some knowledge to this thread. At any rate the comment by the SpeedTv announcer doesn't even warrant a second thought let alone a thread in our club page. Just another talking head... :rolleyes:

Just take a look at former drivers in Forumla Ford, Nigel Mansell, Ayrton Senna, Emerson Fittipaldi, James Hunt, Jody Scheckter, Michael Schumacher, Damon Hill, Jacques Villeneuve, Mikka Hakkinen, etc. etc. Champ, Star Mazda, and whatever other form of open wheel racing you can come up with aren't much a feeder series for the big leagues.

I wasn't aware that a few of those drivers started in Formula Ford ... But hey, don't forget Jenson Button! Okay, his name doesn't belong on that list yet. Maybe one day. If you know of any Formula Ford races being televised in North America, drop me a PM please.

I think you and Nelson Piquet Junior would get along like to peas in a pod with respect to your opinion about North American open wheel racing. :) I also think you and Piquet have that right, so I'll leave it at that.

hate to be the bubble burster here, but while Mazda has good sucess in road racing in the last 20 years - Fords racing history dates back 100 years and they have won championships in pretty much everything possible... Nascar, Indy CArs, F1, LeMans, Daytona, WRC, Touring Cars, Drifting, Sprint Cars, Midgets, Off Road racing, Endurance racing, Drag Racing... -insert any other type of racing you can think of-


Hell, Henry Ford started the company by racing...

hate to be the bubble burster here, but while Mazda has good sucess in road racing in the last 20 years - Fords racing history dates back 100 years and they have won championships in pretty much everything possible... Nascar, Indy CArs, F1, LeMans, Daytona, WRC, Touring Cars, Drifting, Sprint Cars, Midgets, Off Road racing, Endurance racing, Drag Racing... -insert any other type of racing you can think of-


Hell, Henry Ford started the company by racing...

Mazda's story is similar but on a completely different scale. They've been racing and winning for longer than you may realize. Their international racing success is closer to 40 years than 20 and even included Landspeed records and drag race records dating back to the 70s. They've won championships with Off Road trucks even (Rotary powered I might add). They may truly rank as the most successful for their size and expenditure of any maker at any time.

That takes nothing away from Ford and nobody's bubble has to be bursted. :)

Paul.

Bag on Ford all you like, bug their racing history is richer than Mazda's will ever be. I also don't know why someone would say Ford doesn't participate in "interesting series". WRC, JWRC, Forumla Ford, NHRA drag racing, Indy, NASCAR, Sprint Car, SCCA, GT racing around the globe, Can-AM, Le Mans, etc., etc.

Don't forget V8 Supercars Series in Australia that travels to New Zealand and China, between Ford and Holden (GM).

Mazda's story is similar but on a completely different scale. They've been racing and winning for longer than you may realize. Their international racing success is closer to 40 years than 20 and even included Landspeed records and drag race records dating back to the 70s. They've won championships with Off Road trucks even (Rotary powered I might add). They may truly rank as the most successful for their size and expenditure of any maker at any time.

That takes nothing away from Ford and nobody's bubble has to be bursted. :)

Paul.

Your right on here Paul..

In the 1970's Mazda Japan were extremely successful in their Domestic Class racing...RX-2'.RX-3's....then in the 1980's RX-7...Both in the US,
Japan and Australia and Europe.

In Australia like the US, Rotaries have been racing in one form or another..

The FD RX-7(Mazda Australia backed) won every Bathurst 12 hour (Four) against Porsche and Holden V8's.
BTW..The Bathurst 12 is back this Easter this Year with an RX-8 entered.
The 12 hour are PRODUCTION Class "off the showroom floor" racing with little mods.

You have RX-8's racing in England...

And Mazda Japan sponsor and fit out NRA Racing Series of MX-5 (Miata).

Our mate Japan8 could tell us a lot more.

I watched that speed report also and was stunned when that bimbo said what she did. She's an idiot. In fact, the guy on that show sucks too.

bring back Varsha . that show was good. You think Varsha would ever say something like that? I 'm sure she didn't write it, but if Varsha had that handed to him he'd laugh.

freeeekin joke that show is. When does Despain come back?

Mazda's story is similar but on a completely different scale. They've been racing and winning for longer than you may realize. Their international racing success is closer to 40 years than 20 and even included Landspeed records and drag race records dating back to the 70s. They've won championships with Off Road trucks even (Rotary powered I might add). They may truly rank as the most successful for their size and expenditure of any maker at any time.

That takes nothing away from Ford and nobody's bubble has to be bursted. :)

Paul.


they have accomplished much for a company that is as small as they are, but when put next to Ford the accomplishments get outshadowed pretty quickly...

hate to be the bubble burster here, but while Mazda has good sucess in road racing in the last 20 years - Fords racing history dates back 100 years and they have won championships in pretty much everything possible... Nascar, Indy CArs, F1, LeMans, Daytona, WRC, Touring Cars, Drifting, Sprint Cars, Midgets, Off Road racing, Endurance racing, Drag Racing... -insert any other type of racing you can think of-


Hell, Henry Ford started the company by racing...

Geez, you had to bring drifting into it! Drifting is like a dance recital in that it is judged which never fair and balanced. Races are won, not judged so therefore difting is not racing but that's just my bitter opinion about it.

remember that the new ford focus used as a platform for the ford WRC is based off a mazda 3 chassis and the 2.0 engine in that car is a mazda designed 2.0 (MZR) with a ford head which makes it duratec

Geez, you had to bring drifting into it! Drifting is like a dance recital in that it is judged which never fair and balanced. Races are won, not judged so therefore difting is not racing but that's just my bitter opinion about it.

It's like figure skating vs. speed skating. While I do consider drifting a "motorsport," it isn't racing. And the subject at hand is racing.

[QUOTE=Rosko350z]Sorry for the novel.

I think ovals and drag racing are gay.

Hey Rosko350z, just curious, have you been to any Top Fuel drag racing events?? Only reason I say this is because on TV, BORING. But in real life, WOWY WOW!! I LOVE drag racing. Nothing like a 'car' shooting up a quarter mile in 4.6 seconds. Anything that makes your internals shake as it passes by has to get the blood boiling. Then again, I was brought up in the drag racing scene (father used to drag..)

[QUOTE=Rosko350z]Sorry for the novel.

I think ovals and drag racing are gay.

Hey Rosko350z, just curious, have you been to any Top Fuel drag racing events?? Only reason I say this is because on TV, BORING. But in real life, WOWY WOW!! I LOVE drag racing. Nothing like a 'car' shooting up a quarter mile in 4.6 seconds. Anything that makes your internals shake as it passes by has to get the blood boiling. Then again, I was brought up in the drag racing scene (father used to drag..)

Going to drag races is a lot of fun and the history of it is quite interesting. I would venture a guess that anyone that talks bad about drag racing has never been to a decent size event. It's also a great place to observe white trash in their natural element. :D:

They also have ther own Formula Mazda series... it's a lot like Formula Ford... but the cars are all Renesis powered.

Star Mazda

You're both right.

The Star Mazda Series is a professional feeder series currently built around 240-hp, Renesis powered, carbon fiber monocoque Pro Formula Mazda cars. This car was introduced in 2004.

Prior to that, the Series used a 180-hp, 13B powered, tube-frame chassis car simply called a Formula Mazda. This car is still eligible and competing at the club racing level, and is the basis for the SCCA Formula Mazda class.

Speed's commentaries aren't known for their command of the english language. "Credibility" wasn't the correct word, "history" would have been the better choice.

Ford has a rich history with Champ Car. Nevermind they didn't design the motors, they funded them. Had the engines been designed by Ford they would have been looking for more ways to use cast iron.

I've been to a top fuel drag racing event. It's impressive from a sheer power standpoint but quite frankly still boring as hell. I have no desire to go back to another one.

I prefer multi category "tin top" racing or touring car racing on circuits that have some character...to any oval/circuit racing which is easy for spectators to see..but, for me its pretty boring, like top fuel.
.........
A1
F1
Indy 300
Bathurst
Nurbergring
Rallying
Circuits with real corners, bends, hills, straights.

That's because race officials banned the rotary after the race citing 'unfair' advantages.
I would like to hear more about this...thanks

Rotaries were not banned. I explained this in this thread already.

todays Daytona is kicking off Fords celebration of 100 years of racing... 'nuff said

ford owns a stake in mazda, i think around 30%.

yes mazda does supply formula atlantic, as well as star mazda.
33.4% and the Mazda6 is built in the same factory complex as the Mustang. In fact the racing stripes on the new Shelby GT500 are put on in the Mazda section of the assembly plant.

[QUOTE=Rosko350z]Sorry for the novel.

I think ovals and drag racing are gay.

Hey Rosko350z, just curious, have you been to any Top Fuel drag racing events?? Only reason I say this is because on TV, BORING. But in real life, WOWY WOW!! I LOVE drag racing. Nothing like a 'car' shooting up a quarter mile in 4.6 seconds. Anything that makes your internals shake as it passes by has to get the blood boiling. Then again, I was brought up in the drag racing scene (father used to drag..)

No, I've never been to a real, sanctioned drag race. But I'll tell you what, if anyone ever offers me some free tickets to an event at Gainesville, I'll head up there and watch. I didn't even know there were cars that could do the quarter mile that fast. Seriously, I bet it's good fun, but I already watch an unhealthy amount of racing - mostly on tv and the occassional trip to Sebring - I don't think I can add one more series to my bursting-at-its-seems DVR. :) Oh yes, one more bit of hypocrisy; I watched the entire Daytona 500, just so I could root for Montoya. Hopefully, Allmendinger can race in the next one too. God help me.

...commentators like Varsha, Posey, Matchet, Daly, Fish, Hobbs, etc. Speed has such a pornounced slant toward NASCAR that commentary coming from anyone else on anything but NASCAR should be taken with a grain of salt.

I'm glad to see the comments made about Mazda's dominence in IMSA during that series' heyday. The GTU division was theirs year after year and that participation led directly to the LeMans win. In fact, I look back with foundness on the IMSA days...when porottypes from Porsche, Nissan, Toyota, Mazda and others ruled street and road courses. Our generation's version of no-expense spared racing like Can-Am was in the 60's and 70's...

As for Ford, nothing need be said about their racing participation which is greater than any other company...anywhere! Ford races internationally like no one ever has (perhaps ever will) and races in more series and events simultaneously. A huge expense and effort for them. Oh, and for a testiment on how historical they've figured: in arguably the ultimate race series, Formula 1, their DFV engine design remained viable and competitive for over 20 years! If nothing else, Ford knows how to make on hell of a V-8! :icon_tup:

Arvin C

I just watched The Speed Report (from the Speed Channel). The subject came up of Champ Car losing Ford as its engine supplier / major sponsor. The hostess - who has a history of being negative toward anything non-NASCAR - said something along the following, "Hyundai, Mazda, and Cadillac are in talks to possibly sponsor / supply engines for Champ Car. But let's face it. All three of them combined don't have the racing credibility of Ford".

My jaw dropped.

Yes, Ford has probably spent more money and time on racing than Mazda, but the gap isn't that big. And, overall I just think Mazda spends money on more interesting series than does Ford.

Oh, and no, they'll never run rotaries in Champ Car, so don't even bring it up. :mdrmed:

they should changed speedvision to the nascar channel if their not playing that stupid ass unique their playing pinks repetative stupid nascar holy shit what happend to rally, JGTC, and other racing series they used to put on?