Autoexpress article this morning.

Gary Fenton of Stevenage obviously knows nothing about rotaries then... :)

Gary Fenton of Stevenage also seems to drive a Z3.

I check my oil every week anyway !
What's the problem ?

Check the oil every two gas tanks ? :eek:

Who the hell did they talk too ? The specific reporter and Mazda dealer must have had their conversation at the local pub, over a couple of pints :D

Like I have said in my previous post about oil, rotaries burn oil. Its wise to check the oil as often as possible, more often than in all other cars (because only the RX has a rotary engine), and certainly dont leave the "Low Oil" (which is actually "Low Oil Pressure") unattended :confused:

But come on: how hard is it to pop the hood, grab the stick, pull it out, and see what the oil level is ? :p

And if someone doesnt pay attention to the "Low Oil", he/she deserves to be deprived of the car, simply because he/she is too STUPID to be allowed to have one......

I think he should get a Toyota Corolla.

Bah, I know I'll have to check my oil more frequently.


Buy these idiots dont ever check their car? You cant just rely on dashboard lights and servicing, no matter what car you buy - highway code recomends checking lights/fluids more often that every 6 months...

Not to mention that mentality/stupidity JUST LIKE THIS is what has given the RXs their "bad" reputation.....

.....simply because some people are just too lazy or too stupid to do some elementary, simple and very easy checks every 2 weeks or so......:(

TVR suggest you check the oil on a Tuscan *every day*. Not every month, not every fill up - every day, regardless. Of course, after a while you get an idea of how much oil is being used - and I find every 1000 miles is usually when it needs topping up, though I probably check it every 500 or so. (which is actually every other time I fill up, more or less).

It's not really much of a chore. I'd consider it wise to check most engines for oil anyway. I don't think I've ever had a car which I haven't checked the oil level on at *least* every 1000 miles.

Like someone else said - I think we should be glad Mr Z3 is sticking with his hairdryer. :D


-andy-

Originally posted by RobDickinson
Bah, I know I'll have to check my oil more frequently.


Buy these idiots dont ever check their car? You cant just rely on dashboard lights and servicing, no matter what car you buy - highway code recomends checking lights/fluids more often that every 6 months...

Yes - I hope his oil dashboard light fails!

Why do some people in RX8 and Rotary forums think that Mazda created the RX8 only for rotary fans? :p That's not true. They're trying hard to market it to Joe Public who would otherwise buy a 350Z, TT, Z4, or other 2 door coupes or 4 seater sports models. I'm writing this as someone who's fascinated by rotaries, I'm not an advocate. Maybe a devil's advocate but that's about it! :D

Chaps, humour me for a minute. Forget your own knowledge and experience of rotaries and pretend you've never heard of a rotary engine until now. All of your motoring life you've bought a car to primarily get you from A to B in style. You get in the car, drive to your destination and get on with your life. That's how the majority of people think of their cars, they're not all as passionate {or obsessed! ;) } as you guys. Oil checks are probably only done before long journeys and during annual services.

Then this new car comes onto the market with fantastic specs, good looks, and a pretty decent price tag to boot. Yes, it's the RX8. Mr Average Car Enthusiast walks into his Mazda dealer, falls in love with the car, opens his cheque book, and then finds out some maintenance has to be done every week or two. Outside of rotary and classic car forums this is unheard of. Mr Average would be alarmed by this as 99% of other new cars require virtually no regular oil checks or top ups. Of course it's wise to check every 6 months but in reality what percentage of people do? Having to remember to check every two tanks is also probably a concern for newbies. What if they forget? What damage will happen? Will Mazda make repairs under warranty?

The RX8 is not an exclusive buy for rotary fans. This is a mass production car marketed to Mr Average. Mazda want their engine to become more main stream as they're very proud of it and rightly so. This oil issue (or attitude) is one of the hurdles that Mazda need to overcome to get rotaries accepted as equally as pistons.

Feel free to disagree (I'm sure you will!), but I'm just saying you need to look at it from Mr Average's point of view.

No one said that the rotary will explode if you forget one or two oil checks.

No one said that you have to check the oil every two gas tanks.

No one said that rotaries are soooooooo sensitive, that require constant care.

HOWEVER......

How stupid can you be to ignore a "Low Oil" red warning light ?

How difficult is to pop hood, remove dipstick, look at oil level, place dipstick in hole, close hood ?

No other car in the world requires as much attention, because no other car has a rotary engine.

And since when ALL other cars require NO attention to the oil level ?

Check every six months ? I have never, NEVER NEVER seen a car that requires so sparse oil checks. What car is this, pray tell ?

Every six months ???? geez....

Scares you from buying a 2nd hand car somewhat doesn't it.... !

Originally posted by morganrogers
Every six months ???? geez....

Scares you from buying a 2nd hand car somewhat doesn't it.... !

Absolutely, as others have said - its not like checking the oil regularly is a pain in the arse.

I NEVER checked my oil in my previous car, I changed it every 6000Km and it NEVER was down even a drop!

Now my RX-8, I check every week, so far so good, it's down a bit, but not much and I have 2500Km on it.

It's not really a huge issue, check it every month and it would probably be ok, or at least every 2500Km :)

Originally posted by Wing
I NEVER checked my oil in my previous car, I changed it every 6000Km and it NEVER was down even a drop!


But if you didn't check it then how do you know its wasn't down? :-)

I really dont see the problem here for most people.

When I had company cars I admit I never checked the oil as they dont. need any ;) , so maybe this could be a problem for people who have company cars. Even so, if people dont check that regularly you have to be an idiot to ignore a warning light.

Since I have had my own cars, I have checked the oil regularly until I know how much it uses. My current car hardly burns oil so I only check every 1000-2000 miles or so, but if it needed checking every 500 miles then so what. I bet people who never check oil dont check their tyre pressures either.

I will hopefully be taking care of it by washing it every week, and it will take 2 minutes to flip the bonnet and check the oil.

I think he would be better off sticking with his Z3.

Autocar just seem to have a downer on the RX-8, it would be interesting to see if any other mags have similar articles.

The AA http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/avoid_breakdown.html recommend on their Ten Vitual Checks:

1. Tyres
2. Toolkit
3. Engine Oil - "Check the dipstick at least every fortnight and before any long journey. "

Whatever type of car/engine you have if you don't - your risk!

Originally posted by The Ace
No one said that the rotary will explode if you forget one or two oil checks.Mazda said that any damage caused by not checking as advised would not be covered by the warranty. While they didn't say that the engine would explode they did say that the results of not checking as advised wouldn't be covered by the warranty.

No one said that you have to check the oil every two gas tanks.Yes, the dealer said so according to the article. I just checked with Mazda's helpline about "every 2 tanks" and they confirmed that was a fair guideline. I wonder what the owner's manual says? It would be cool if there was a downloadable version (Acrobat or something) from Japan or America. It'll keep us ticking over until the Nov launch!

How stupid can you be to ignore a "Low Oil" red warning light ?
Assuming that indicator is accurate (not according to some threads elsewhere) then it shouldn't be a problem.

How difficult is to pop hood, remove dipstick, look at oil level, place dipstick in hole, close hood ?
Pretty easy if you remember to check or trust the lil' red light. But it is an extra chore if you're not used to doing it regularly.

Check every six months ? I have never, NEVER NEVER seen a car that requires so sparse oil checks. What car is this, pray tell ?Bear in mind that Mr Average doesn't read the owner's manual from cover to cover and relies on his dealer for advice and servicing. My familiy have/had a 325, 206 GTi, 306 XSi, Mondeo v6 2.5. They only get/got checked during services or every 6 months or so. The oil seems to stay in the engine pretty well! ;) Modern piston engines are designed to be of very low maintenance. I'm sure Mr Average checks no more than that. Unfortunately there's no way to tell unless someone commissions a Gallup poll! ;)

Originally posted by RX-Late


But if you didn't check it then how do you know its wasn't down? :-)

Because I checked just before pulling the drain plug :)

I am pretty sure my Honda owners manual says check every fill up.... it is just a standard throw away phrase.

My prev roary was fine , checked every week or two , no problemo. Renesis is better than prev gen , so should be even better.

This is like the 'torque problem'. There is no 'torque problem' - get over it ! There is no 'oil consumption problem' - get over it !

If checking the oil is so difficult for "Gary Fenton of Stevenage", how often does he top up his washer bottle???? It would be very close (within an arms length) of the oil.

Every 2 or 3 weeks I spend 5 mins max doing washer bottle, oil and tyres. Is 5 mins too much to ask?

I bet "Gary Fenton of Stevenage" hasn't ever owned a 2 stroke bike........ (topping up the 2 stoke oil)

Anyway, don't you want to have a look at the lovely engine once in a while?

Stuart

Garrygfx try this:-

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/pdf/manuals/RX8_2004_owners.pdf page 124 or 130

sorry guys - i have to say i can see his point.

modern cars regardless of whether company or not really do not use oil and the highway code etc was written at a time when you used your wifes stockings to fix the fan belt! i seem to remember even 10 years ago reading of an american car with a service interval of 100,000 miles. people just expect to get into a car and drive, taking it for it's standard service when required. a lot of people will be put off this car in a modern hectic no time for anything world. i know checking the oil takes just a couple of minutes but when it's pissing down, you're late, you're in your suit, the last thing you want to do is get the bonnet up.


having said all that i also agree that if you ignore a warning light you deserve everything you get. if nothing else the warning light comes on and you phone the free mazda 3 year assist that comes with the car - dont even risk the 'limp' home mode.


ps any better uses for wifes underwear?

Americans tend to treat oil topups/changes as separate from services, 100,000mile service isnt without an oil change, and oil changes are far more common three - its like quick-fit type stuff.

Now - as for not checking ever, so your dash light is faulty, engine siezes and you end up killing people. not clever - does happen too.

I'm glad people like this dont buy proper sports cars like the elise/tvr, god knows what state they'd be in afterwards.

Originally posted by The Ace
Its wise to check the oil as often as possible, more often than in all other cars (because only the RX has a rotary engine), and certainly dont leave the "Low Oil" (which is actually "Low Oil Pressure") unattendedMinor point: the oil pressure gauge indicates pressure or the lack thereof; the oil warning light indicates low oil level.

Originally posted by garygfx
Mazda said that any damage caused by not checking as advised would not be covered by the warranty. While they didn't say that the engine would explode they did say that the results of not checking as advised wouldn't be covered by the warranty.

Yes, the dealer said so according to the article. I just checked with Mazda's helpline about "every 2 tanks" and they confirmed that was a fair guideline. I wonder what the owner's manual says? It would be cool if there was a downloadable version (Acrobat or something) from Japan or America. It'll keep us ticking over until the Nov launch!

Assuming that indicator is accurate (not according to some threads elsewhere) then it shouldn't be a problem.

Pretty easy if you remember to check or trust the lil' red light. But it is an extra chore if you're not used to doing it regularly.

Bear in mind that Mr Average doesn't read the owner's manual from cover to cover and relies on his dealer for advice and servicing. My familiy have/had a 325, 206 GTi, 306 XSi, Mondeo v6 2.5. They only get/got checked during services or every 6 months or so. The oil seems to stay in the engine pretty well! ;) Modern piston engines are designed to be of very low maintenance. I'm sure Mr Average checks no more than that. Unfortunately there's no way to tell unless someone commissions a Gallup poll! ;)

What Mazda said is correct. You buy a specific machine from them, which has its instructions, and one of them explains what happens if you neglect a specific check. If you do, its your fault.

The dealer said so obviously trying to exaggerate. Anyway, with 2 tanks of fuel, you should make anything between 500 and 1000 kilometers. I'd say thats a pretty good assumption......

I agree with what you're saying about the oil light. Thats why I said it myself ;) You ignore the warning light, its your fault!

And I repeat what I said: rotaries burn oil. Other engines dont! Thats a pretty huge difference. Dont compare rotaries with any other engine. If Mr. Average wants to buy this car AND keep it in shape, he better wise up and read the friggin manual :p

Originally posted by simrjor
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/pdf...2004_owners.pdf page 124 or 130
Unfortunately the link is dead or the server refused to send it. I went to the mazdaUSA site (as per your URL) and registered to get access to the manual but the site threw a server error everytime. I'll try again later tonight. Maybe it knows I'm not yet an owner! ;) Thanks.

Originally posted by eccles
Minor point: the oil pressure gauge indicates pressure or the lack thereof; the oil warning light indicates low oil level.

Dont know if the RX8 is different in that area (couldnt imagine why), but in the RX7s the "Low Oil" warning light was a threshold in the "Low Oil Pressure". If you think about it, there is no way the ECU can tell if the oil is low, but it can tell if the oil pressure is low ;)

So, both gauge and warning light refer to oil pressure......

Originally posted by The Ace
Dont know if the RX8 is different in that area (couldnt imagine why), but in the RX7s the "Low Oil" warning light was a threshold in the "Low Oil Pressure". If you think about it, there is no way the ECU can tell if the oil is low, but it can tell if the oil pressure is low ;)

So, both gauge and warning light refer to oil pressure...... I'm sure your intentions are good, but your assumptions are bad.

The warning light is triggered by a sensor in the sump, and indicates low oil level. In fact, some early cars have a problem which causes the light to come on prematurely due to insufficient baffling around the sensor. This has been discussed extensively in other threads.

yup, even the older RX's had the low level sensor in the sump (and it works .. mine had low oil when I bought it and I nearly jumped out of the seat when it buzzed at me going round a roundabout!)

I don't see the problem really, its different from a piston car but thats all really. I'm sure if we were all buying a petrol powered car for the 1st time we'd be amazed that you have to fill it with petrol every few hundred miles.

Depending on how you drive the oil level may never drop enough to need a top up between oil changes anyway. ( many fairly new piston engine cars use that much oil)

Mike

Originally posted by The Ace
No one said that the rotary will explode if you forget one or two oil checks.

No one said that you have to check the oil every two gas tanks.

No one said that rotaries are soooooooo sensitive, that require constant care.

HOWEVER......

How stupid can you be to ignore a "Low Oil" red warning light ?

How difficult is to pop hood, remove dipstick, look at oil level, place dipstick in hole, close hood ?

No other car in the world requires as much attention, because no other car has a rotary engine.

And since when ALL other cars require NO attention to the oil level ?

Check every six months ? I have never, NEVER NEVER seen a car that requires so sparse oil checks. What car is this, pray tell ?

Prey tell, I had one. It was a 1985 Cougar. I checked the oil when I first purchased the car, but it never seem to go down. It also had a 'low oil' light. This was in addition to a low oil pressure light (and I hate dumb lights). Since I changed the oil every 5,000 miles I stopped checking the oil. The low oil light came on only once in 125,000 miles and it was about 3/4 gts low.

From the posts in the US it seems we will have to fill up the 8 every few hundred miles too, especially if we drove it as a sports car!

rael

I see the point Garryfx is making.

I'm sure I read that Mazda are targeting 6000 unit sales per year in the UK for the RX8. That's not the sales figures you would see for a more specialist market like the RX7.

Now while people who frequent forums like this will have absolutely no problem dipping the oil every 2 tankfulls, "Joe Public", with no interest in rotaries, who may well see this as a car they'd like to own but who's sum total of maintenance of any kind, beyond putting water in one end and petrol in the other, is handing his car to the dealer for a service, is going to have problems.

They are just too used to the "drive it and park it" mentality associated with more "mainstream" cars.

And lets face it - by the time the warning lights are coming on you may already have damaged the engine.

I can just see the letters in "What Car" now....

"My 8 week old RX8 ground to a halt at the side of the M6 when the engine seized. The dealership has informed me it's my fault because I didn't check the oil every 2 weeks as per the advice on page 23 of the owners manual. Every 2 weeks!!!. This must be a design flaw. I want my money back, blah, blah, blah..." :D

you guys know i'm getting the car and this isnt going to stop me. however i'm interested to hear experienced rotary owners say that rotaries burn oil and of course it's true. this is akin as pointed out to a two stroke bike. now what i dont understand is why there isn't a separate oil reservoir from which the spray can draw. that way (as with a two stroke, or a petrol tank) an accurate measure can be provided to the driver in the cabin at all times.

has anyone thought of this?

I have about 1,400 miles on my car. I have checked the oil about every two tanks of gas. It is now about half was between the two marks on the stick. I am likely to get an oil change before I would need to top up.

Aside from the rotary burning oil, I also have a recurring oil film in the engine compartment that may explain some of the oil level decrease. When I first mentioned this (and the smell of burning oil) to the dealer, they assured me it was normal for a new car and that it was the result of the protective coating applied to the engine prior to shipment and also to make everything shiny. Likely story...I will have that checked again.

Of note in checking the oil, the dipstick is somewhat buried under several hoses and the engine cover. I know I removed the engine cover to check it in the past, I don't recall if my last check required this or whether I contorted sufficiently to avoid the need.

i think Gary Fenton of Stevenage is alarmed because he has probably never checked the fluid levels in any car he has ever driven/owned. therefore he has no understanding of how to read a dipstick but does not want to give away his lack of knowledge so decides to say that it must be a problem with the car, because of course he has no problem.

if he is that scared of doing the checks himself and looking like a fool for not understanding, isn't there petrol stations there that will check it for him at the fillups? or perhaps that valeting service that someone here mentioned awhile ago that can come round to his flat and check the fluids and top them off for him? that way he wouldn't run out of washer fluid either.

Personally I think this is another negative, or come lets not be negative thread about the RX-8. AutoExpress clearly doesn't refer to any other vehicle every needing as much attention, e.g. every other bloody car out there should have the oil check frequently.

Put this one to bed, forget about it, they are a55holes and I will not be buying anymore of their magazines.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE stop all the god damn moaning, for those of us who have got our cars I'm sure we are all enjoying them. For those awaiting arrival I'm sure most of us can't wait - even though we have heard/read so much SH1T on this site.

Back to the basics everyone, let's start praising this fantastic car for once.

E.G. I think it looks great, what a great design, what lovely colour choices, etc,etc.

Right, lets get our own back, The Editor of Autoexpress is available on this email address, drop him a line about the article, lets stir up some crap!

editor@autoexpress.co.uk

Why not report back on this thread if you get a reply.
You see my point :cool:

[COLOR=red]
Dear Mr Johns,

I write to you concerning the article compiled in this weeks Autoexpress concerning the RX-8, "Oil's not well for the innovative RX-8".

In this article your reporter appears to be trying to tell us that it's a totally new concept to be checking your cars engine oil levels and that Mazda recommend a check every two fill ups. He makes it sound terrible to have to do this.

Can you kindly recommend your employee looks up this site:

http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/avoid_breakdown.html

In which he will find that this is actually a recommendation for all cars and not just for the "innovative RX-8". I am very disappointed by this type of journalism and it is very clear from this report that the writer is not in touch with realities of modern engines.

I would respectfully request that you print an apology in your next edition especially to those whom are waiting patiently for delivery of this fantastic new car. A car that seem to get nothing but praise from every other UK magazine apart from yours.

I look forward to hearing from you in the near future.

Kind regards,

(name supplied)
Member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists

Well done Lucozade.

I doubt you will get a reply but let's wait and see.

OK - your average car driver checks the oil maybe once in a blue moon ... half way between services if we're lucky.

Given that, they will find the RX-8 hard to live with.

Me ... I had been feeding my Mazda Xedos the really expensive 0w40 type oils and ended up having to check every two weeks (at least). Then I realised I'd been using the wrong oil; moved to 10w40+ and hardly ever have to check it.

So: Get the oil right and life will be easier, but bear in mind that this is a sports car!!!

Another thought:

Why are journalists at Autoexpress so anti the RX-8 compared to the rest of the industry? .....

I'll say no more !?!?!?!?!

ok more moaning, do something about it then.

Send an email to the editor, come on guys moan at someone else for a change, its not difficult. No offence intended but come on lets get a grip on this.

The email address as before is:

editor@autoexpress.co.uk

And his name is David Johns.

Get typing!

We are a big community of car buyers lets tell them so!

:mad:

Originally posted by mr_digital_uk
Another thought:

Why are journalists at Autoexpress so anti the RX-8 compared to the rest of the industry? .....

I'll say no more !?!?!?!?!

Mr D,

I posted the same earlier, but then I realised it is AutoExpress (who have given excellent reviews of the RX-8) and not Autocar (who dont like the RX-8) who have written this article.

Nevertheless, I am minded to email the editor with my comments regardless of what anyone else does.

Now, back to the football, lets hope England do a bit better in the second half than the first!

Ouch ... sorry got my magazines mixed up ....

Given that, I guess it's even-handed journalism ....

Still ... sports cars need a bit more care than your average Vauxhall Vectra

MarkW well said. I've just logged on and was about to sat what you already have. As posted earlier Autocar will damn the car next week. Autoexpress and Evo like the 8.

AnilS.

Seems to me that more and more Mazda have f**ked up - another nail in the RX8 coffin

Originally posted by The Ace


Check every six months ? I have never, NEVER NEVER seen a car that requires so sparse oil checks. What car is this, pray tell ?

Just a point of contrast - another of my cars needs essentially no attention to oil checks. Besides the 8, I also own a BMW 328, which I have had it for just shy of 4 years. When I first got it I purchased a qt of the BMW synthetic oil - put it in the trunk. I've always had a spare quart in all my cars - just in case - my Dad taught me to do this when I first started driving (more years ago than I care to admit).

To date the seal on that quart of oil is unbroken. I started out checking the oil in the BMW regularly, after 4 years I have to force myself to check it - as it has never been low on oil. There is about 35K on the car; all it has ever had is the scheduled service. It simply has never burned a drop between Oil changes.

I suspect my BMW experience is closer to what Joe average consumer expects than what the rotary requires. Different cars, different expectations.

MV, the same applies to my Ford Focus, no usage but checked mainly prior to long trips. However, the BMW M5 in our family has to be checked at least every 2 weeks, and normally requires a small top up. BMW include a litre of oil, gloves and funnel in a pack, velcroed to the boot carpet. Its apparent that the M5, by the very nature of its V8, like to be kept lubed.


Regards, AnilS.

REGARDING the above two posts.

What the hell are you telling us for ?

Tell the Editor, this thread is a boring as old dishwater now, get moaning to the Editor.

Kind regards and bored stiff of this forum,

Lucozade.

Dear Moderator, can we please have this thread closed.

I agree that we're not getting so many bangs-per-buck at the moment in the european forum, but I'm going to cut this one a little more slack.

If I deleted every thread that wandered off track a little it would be very, very quiet in here. But I am watching.......;)

Originally posted by crabacle
Seems to me that more and more Mazda have f**ked up - another nail in the RX8 coffin

Errr, Why do you say that? :confused:

Gotta say - I was confused by that ...

Here is a car that with no marketing yet has sold over 1000 units , has the best reviews I have ever seen (collectively I mean - to my knowledge there is only one mag that has dis'd the RX8)
... and more importantly has £1000 of my money !

What coffin ?

Actually - scratch that - I dont really care !

I am itching with antici.........pation for this car - and that is all that matters !

Thanks jimbobjoe.

I think I am in the silent majority, who considering the aggresive tone of this specific thread have not posted, that rarely or never check oil. My XJS used to be serviced every 6 months and the TTC is 18 months old and coming up to its first service with 1 oil top up needed up when the low light came on.

I think it is unusual to check oil every 2 week in todays modern cars, even if the manual suggest that as best practice (its very easy to put that clause in as a warranty get-out). If I have to do that for the 8 because the rotary calls for it then fine but let us not pretend that we would have to do this for every new car, it is not the case and I imagine the majority of readers don't do it that regularly at present.

rael

...Perhaps it is a conspiracy to get us to buy the gas-bonnet-struts from the expensive extras catalogue.....

Make 'em open the bonnet often enough , they will buy the struts ! MWUH-ha-haaaaa ! (evil laugh)

;)

Thanks to those who were brave enough to speak out and confirm they don't often check oil levels or hardly ever need to put a drop into their piston engines. Let's face it, piston engines are pretty refined beasts these days. Hang on, hang on! Let me finish! ;)

I've just had a thought which has put this whole issue into perspective for me. It will be obvious to you but so far no one has touched on it in this thread. Piston engines have had well over 100 years of development history multiplied by the number of individuals and companies that have had a part to play in inventing more effective theories, components and subsystems.

In contrast it seems the rotary engine, while on paper is as old as the piston engine, has taken a back seat when it comes to mass development. Apart from Mazda what percentage of manufacturers have invested and produced rotaries for 40+ years? With that in mind it should be no surprise that the Renesis doesn't have all of the refinements and benefits of 1000+ company years of development. I'm sure Madza will eventually address oil consuption issues just as it has been resolved by piston manufacturers. Same goes for fuel consumption. There's bound to be an "FSI" equivilent development for rotaries somewhere down its evolutionary path. To be fair, considering the fraction of development that rotaries have had next to pistons, the Renesis is pretty impressive.

I think RENESIS is pretty impressive on its own - i.e. without such considerations...

But then I am in the minority who are buying this car because of the wonderful engine !

Seems to me like, in order to reply to the posts quoting me, I have to YET ONCE MORE repeat what I have said from the word "GO":

1) Rotaries burn oil. They dont burn it just for fun, or because their gaskets are leaking. They burn it because the OMP injects it into the engine to keep the seals lubricated. So, oil level IS GOING to decrease. You may rest on the functionality of the "Low Oil" light, but oil WILL burn, and its level WILL decrease.

2) You may as well never have to top up. If you dont drive it like a maniac, the frequent oil changes will cover for the fact that rotaries burn oil. So, you might end up not having to top up ever. On the other hand, its nice to know what your car is doing.

3) To whoever doesnt check the oil level: sorry, but you dont deserve to have a RX8. If your Vauxhaul, BMW, Opel, VW, and whatever else didnt need a single top up, then good for you and your car. HOWEVER, the RX8 and the rotary are different. You dont actually expect to pop a DVD into a VHS player, and expect it to play, do you ? Operate and treat each machine as it should be operated and treated....

4) A seperate oil tank just for the OMP has been considered for all RX7s, but the system would be much more complicated, and the chances of someone even accidentally forgeting to top up the second reservoir would lead to more engine failures. Thats why the OMP gets the oil from the same place (oil pump, oil pan).

5) As for the "Low Oil" warning light, I have to admit that I was wrong. After checking the FSM, section T (15), the warning light is connected to a floater in the left side of the oil pan. While the gauge is ofcourse connected to the pressure sender right before the filter. Just to let you all guys know......

PS: As for the "my RX8 stopped working because I didnt top up the oil like I was supposed to" remark, well a) the person who says that must be shot on sight, and b) we can safely assume that this is the same person that gets stranded because he forgot to put in gas :confused: Lets not deal with these types any more, shall we ?

I think at one point in the 90's mazdas rotary development team was down to 2 people.


Rotaries have gotten benifit from modern tech, piston development/materials science, engineering,production and such, but development on the actual engine has beed a very small fraction of whats gone into piston engines.

Cerrtainly years behind where it should be - people say they burn oil, have emmisions/reliability problems etc.

In piston tearms I'd say ther still somewhere in the 70's or so, astonishing the Renasis is so good tho isnt it ?

Didn't Mazda claim somewhere that the RX-8 would only consume 1 litre of oil per 10,000 miles (or maybe it was kilometres)?

The reason given was that as the Renesis has no peripheral ports then the oil on the surface of the rotor housing was not continually being swept out of the exhaust ports by the apex seals.

Dont know about that, but 1lt/10000km sounds a bit stretched....I know that the Renesis is more advanced than the 13REW, but in order to go from about 0,5lt/1000km (normal consumption for 13BT and 13REW) to 1lt/10000km, the consumption would have to become 1/5.....could be done, but I would rather guess about 2lt/10000km to be more safe ;)

Someone mentioned oil changes. How often do Mazda advise oil changes and using an average priced oil how much would it cost roughly please? I'm asking so I can get an idea of the maintenance costs. My dealer can't say what the servicing costs are yet so I thought I'd start with oil change costs.

Thanks.

We dont know what oil is recomended yet - it probably wont be the same type as in the US.


US schedule says 5000/7500 mile servicing, but UK will probably be 12500 mile(?).

Japans was shorter again I think, but their mad.

M...MM....M...MM....M.....Mad sir !

Originally posted by garygfx
Someone mentioned oil changes. How often do Mazda advise oil changes and using an average priced oil how much would it cost roughly please? I'm asking so I can get an idea of the maintenance costs. My dealer can't say what the servicing costs are yet so I thought I'd start with oil change costs.

Thanks.

Again, I dont know what Mazda is "recommending" for the RX8, but I can tell you for sure that the RX7s responded much nicer when you had complete oil changes every 5K km ;) Since you will be using a dino oil of a 10-40W, it will be rather cheap, so it wont cost you that much (cheaper than having to change fully synthetic 5-40W oil in a M3 or a VTEC engine)

I'm sure many won't be surprised to see me come down on the side of those who think this is a negative for the RX8 - I've said before that I'm possibly buying one despite the rotary engine!

I drive a car that is almost as quick as the RX8 (is quicker top end) and I rarely have to top up the oil between services (10k.) It's not something I'm used to doing, I'm almost always in my suit when I'm filling up (which will be every 2 days in the 8 probably) so it won't be something which I can just fit in. I won't be washing it every week (hence Titanium!) and so that's another natural time to check it that I'm missing.

That's not to say I won't take time to do it on the RX8 but it's not something I'm likely to do religiously, so it does concern me that I can be affecting the life of the engine.

Ace - I think that you have an eliteist attitude when you say people like me don't deserve to own an RX8 - at then end of the day it could have 10,000 hamsters under the bonnet and I wouldn't care as long as I only have to worry about how I drive the car. I think you have a misguided bias towards the rotary engine and while it may have allowed the RX8 to have been concieved, I would have been just as happy (if not more so) if they had put a piston engine in it.

Andy,

As my Mazda Xedos has aged (80,000 miles) I have had to take a little more care on the oil, but it isn't that much of a drudge.

Like you, I'm on the road most days and always in a suit.

Popping the bonnet every couple of weeks, checking the oil and buying a litre once a month (if that) cos I dropped below the minimum mark doesn't really cause an issue.

Most garages have paper towels, gloves etc if you need them.

Adds about two minutes max to a stop.

BTW ... refer to my previous post and you'll see that I was being daft and buying more expensive oil that needed replacing more often. Definitely need to go with what Mazda recommend.

Originally posted by The Ace


Again, I dont know what Mazda is "recommending" for the RX8, but I can tell you for sure that the RX7s responded much nicer when you had complete oil changes every 5K km ;) Since you will be using a dino oil of a 10-40W, it will be rather cheap, so it wont cost you that much (cheaper than having to change fully synthetic 5-40W oil in a M3 or a VTEC engine)

a "complete" oil change would require draining the entire system including what is in the oil coolers and what is in the cooling channels of the block. not only would this be dificult and time comsuming to do getting the airin the lines lines and oil coolers bled out would be a right pain. during a normal oil and filter change at 5000 or 7500 as is recommended in the US manual will only change out between 3.75-4 quarts of the 7+quarts in the system. also the recommended oil in the JDM, Canadian and U.S. manuals is not 10w-40 but rather 5w-20.

Originally posted by Murphy

And lets face it - by the time the warning lights are coming on you may already have damaged the engine.



actually with this oil level light and sensor it comes on before you are a quart low, not counting the ones in the sumps with the wrong baffling. so waiting until the lights comes on is not terribly bad as long as you took care of it soon after it comes on.

and on the oil consumption: i watched the level thru the first few fill ups and it didn't drop much at all. i then lengthened period between checks and didn't add any until the light came on at @2800 miles at which point i added almost a quart. if someone wants to do the conversions it might be helpful to the rest of you. i'd do the conversion myself but being a lazy american..... ;) :p

This all adds up to the fun and the pleasure we will receive for picking this wonderful car.:)

I know when I get mine (without the bonnet dampers as they'll need replacing from continual use), the renisis engine cover will remain in my garage.

One final thought (and maybe RX7 owners could help). With oil being burnt and sent out of the exhaust, how long before you have to replace the catalyst in the exhausts ?

AnilS.

I know its probably been said on a few threads already but I think it needs emphasis - DO NOT use synthetic oil (eg Mobil 1). The engine is designed so that oil is applied constantly to the rotor tips and needs to burn away naturally. Synth doesnt burn away cleanly. So its OK to use cheaper oil (not shite though, best to use the same oil that comes in a little fun pack in the boot or a similar grade, non-synth by a big name, eg Castrol, Shell).

And, you guys in USA, what is a quart? Pardon my stupidity but I aint got a clue what one of those is, even though use limeys probably invented it a few centuries ago.

1 quart [US, liquid] = 0.946353 liter from http://www.onlineconversion.com/

So, a US gallon is almost a UK gallon, a quart is nearly a litre, and a ps is just a bit more than a horsepower. All of these measurements are so close to each other but someone had to make up another scale! :confused: I've learnt a lot this week by joining this forum! ;)

Zoom44, thanks for the real-life info on oil top ups. If your car is the norm then that's just 2 quarts/litres a year for me! Not as bad as I thought.

AnilS, that's an interesting question about replacing the cat. Hopefully someone will tell us it's every 20,000 miles or more! They're not exactly cheap are they?

Jon H, no synth oil. Gotcha. I wonder if someone can invent a formular that doesn't burn away so much. Perhaps increasing its resistance to heat somehow. A special rotary oil. ;)

no problem. i should also have mentioned that the distance between the "full" line and the "add" line is @1.75 of those US quarts. so according to the stick i still could have not added any for awhile but i wanted the light to go away. and there has been some mention that if you let the light go for too long(i don't know how long is "too long") that the engine will go into a sort of "limp home" mode not allowing you to go WOT or rev above a certain lower limit until you correct the situation. so all of these things have been put in place with the avg joe in mind, so that it is harder for him to hurt the car from inattention. i think most will be able to handle it.

again i wonder if you're in your suit on a rainy day or whatever isnt their someone at the petrol station that could do the adding for you when the light came on? buy them a pint or something and i'm sure they would be more than happy to do it if it is an inconvenient time for you.

Originally posted by garygfx
So, a US gallon is almost a UK gallonThe difference between the US and Imperial gallon is primarily due to the fact that a US pint is only 16 fl.oz. instead of the 20 fl.oz. of an imperial pint. The fluid ounce is also ever so slightly different, resulting in the US gallon being approximately 4/5 of the imperial (0.83 actually). What the rest of the world calls a 44-gallon drum is a 55-gallon drum over here.

When it comes to conversions, google is your friend!

Go to the normal google.com seaarch prompt and type in

12 km per litre in miles per gallon

Clever! :D

Originally posted by eccles
What the rest of the world calls a 44-gallon drum is a 55-gallon drum over here.
Everything is bigger in Texas! ;)

Fact - Rotaries use oil - why is anyone surprised??

FTR I read that the 8 is supposed to go through around a litre of oil every couple of thousand miles...time will tell.

Fact - all manufacturers recommend regular checks.

Partially tested fact - most modern mass production piston engines dont use oil if they've been properly put together. e.g my last beamer had two services in 45000 miles over a four year period and the level was never low....


BK

Auto Express quote a Mazda spokesman as saying "We've never denied teh rotary engine uses quite a lot of oil".

I have a Toyota Celica which does 500 miles a week commuting. I check it regularly, and it has never needed anything other than air in the tyres.

So, how much is "Quite a lot"? Is it a storm in a tea cup or is it something more.

If anyone has any figures... that would be great.

I can (almost) sympathize with the guy in the article. Before getting my RX-8 my last 115,000 driving miles (over 4 years) has been in new cars - specifically two Lexii and an Acura. I have not checked or topped up any fluids in that time at all. In fact when I got my first Lexus (RX330) the dealership told me to never open the bonnet unless I wanted to show somebody the engine or unless a warning light came on - they would take care of everything during scheduled servicing (and charge me accordingly :)). I did not have one single problem of any kind in 52000 miles in the RX300 or 45000 miles in the IS300, and my Acura MDX at 18,000 has had some door rattles and an askew steering wheel but no engine issues.

When I got the RX-8 about 6 weeks ago I was shocked when my dealership told me to check the oil every two fill-ups, but they went on to say I only needed to do this until I got a feel for how much oil the car consumed with my driving style. I checked at 500 miles (full) and 1000 miles (had not moved at all) and changed the oil at 1100 miles, having revved the nuts off it after the 600 mile break-in. I will be checking every 1000 miles, hoping that one day I will have a chance to top it up as I bought 12 quarts (liters) of Castrol GTX 5W-20 with the car and have not used any yet. I will be getting the oil changed every 3750 miles at no cost from my dealership (even without the free servicing/buyback offer).

BTW I always check tire pressures every 1-2 weeks on all my cars and I used to check the oil on any second-hand cars I've owned every week (usually because they leaked on occasion).

Originally posted by rx8.org.uk
So, how much is "Quite a lot"? Is it a storm in a tea cup or is it something more.

If anyone has any figures... that would be great.

to quote myself from earlier:

Originally posted by zoom44


actually with this oil level light and sensor it comes on before you are a quart low, not counting the ones in the sumps with the wrong baffling. so waiting until the lights comes on is not terribly bad as long as you took care of it soon after it comes on.

and on the oil consumption: i watched the level thru the first few fill ups and it didn't drop much at all. i then lengthened period between checks and didn't add any until the light came on at @2800 miles at which point i added almost a quart. if someone wants to do the conversions it might be helpful to the rest of you. i'd do the conversion myself but being a lazy american..... ;) :p

and:

Originally posted by zoom44
1 quart [US, liquid] = 0.946353 liter from http://www.onlineconversion.com/

and the last bit:

Originally posted by zoom44
no problem. i should also have mentioned that the distance between the "full" line and the "add" line is @1.75 of those US quarts. so according to the stick i still could have not added any for awhile but i wanted the light to go away. and there has been some mention that if you let the light go for too long(i don't know how long is "too long") that the engine will go into a sort of "limp home" mode not allowing you to go WOT or rev above a certain lower limit until you correct the situation.

hope that helps:)

EDIT: Pelucidor has it down. follow the recommendation until you have a feel for the consumption and then adjust.

Originally posted by rx8.org.uk
Auto Express quote a Mazda spokesman as saying "We've never denied teh rotary engine uses quite a lot of oil".

I have a Toyota Celica which does 500 miles a week commuting. I check it regularly, and it has never needed anything other than air in the tyres.

So, how much is "Quite a lot"? Is it a storm in a tea cup or is it something more.

If anyone has any figures... that would be great.

For both of your questions, the answers can be easily found in previous pages.........

I hate to repeat myself SO OFTEN.........:p

My MX3 V6 after never needing topping up has started to get through a bit of oil since around 110,000 miles, and I check it at least once a month (~1200 miles). However if I've left it longer or done more miles you can tell its at the bottom of the dipstick from the increased valve noise after starting.

I'll have to be a bit more careful with the RX8 as there are no valves to make any noise!

---Dave