After 450 miles, 19mpg, the car has developed a significant pull to the right or left when braking on bumpy or irregular pavement. The steering wheel turns a full quarter under these conditions. This occurs at low speed when coming to a traffic light or on the freeway when braking in a turn bay with uneven pavement (very scary which required quick correction). The sterring wheel turns right or left depending on the pavement and is very reproduceable. THIS NEVER OCCURS ON SMOOTH PAVEMENT. It acts exactly like a sticking caliper when it occurs, but only on bumpy pavement (NOT POTHOLES) which makes no sense if it is a caliper. On occasion I have been FULLY stopped and pump the brake pedal and the steering wheel will continue to jerk in the direction it was turning under braking while moving. THE ABS HAS NEVER ACTIVATED. There is no activity from the rear end, all of the action is in the turning of the steering wheel. THE BRAKES AND STEERING ARE OTHERWISE PERFECT UNDER ALL OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES. The steering is unaffected by the uneven pavement as long as I don't hit the brakes. It is due for service and the phone diagnosis from the dealer is "it's probably the pavement".

mine has started to do this also. it started just after 1000 miles in mine and does not seem to be as severe as yours, i.e not a quarter turn of the wheel but about half of that. i thought at first that is the brakes pulling as it was always to the right but as time goes on i see now that it pulls left or right but had not equated it to the bumpy pavement until you mentioned it. i think now though that it is almost always on bumpy pavement. i can also when it is occuring stop at a light and pump the brake and it will pull still in the direction it was while moving. i have noticed, just last night wheni wasn't accelerating but just moving at a steady speed on a certain stretch of the highway i drive home on, and it was definetly to the left then but at the end of the off ramp while braking it was to the right. no abs activation for me either at least that i noticed. since mine is not as drastic right now that yours seems to be, i will wait until i have mine checked once i have the free service in hand so i can have it checked when i take it in for the oil change.unless it gets worse that is. keep me posted on what you find out. and thanks for posting it up here.

that stinks. are you guys going to take the car to the dealer for service. keep us posted

Sounds normal for a sports car. The more you isolate the steering wheel from the car the less pulling you get at low speed. It really is a good thing!

Vince

Make sure the air pressure in all your tires is correct (32 psi) - you can get all kinds of funky response with high or low air pressure.

Might also want to try driving with the traction control system totally disabled and see if that makes a difference.

Dale

nahh vince this is definetly not a good thing. i really don't like wrestling with the steering wheel at freeway speeds to keep the car going where i intend it to. and it is a definite change from how it was before. like i said it feels like the breaks are pulling the car to one side or like bad torque steer on a front wheel drive. but not always to the same side.

I've just noticed this in the past few days also. Although in the car's defense, some of these occasions have been on poorly crowned or very uneven road surfaces. I'll be watching mine to see if it continues. It's at home in the garage today - testing resumes tomorrow at 6AM.

Make sure the air pressure in all your tires is correct (32 psi) - you can get all kinds of funky response with high or low air pressure.

Might also want to try driving with the traction control system totally disabled and see if that makes a difference.

Dale
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I forgot to mention the tire pressure is spot on 32psi in all four tires. I have not tried to turn off the DSC/trac but I may need the dsc if i hit the brakes on uneven freeway again!. My brother has an 01 Vette which follows grooves and ruts in the freeway which is expected in a fat tire sports car. The 8 tracks beautifully, it is only when you brake on the bumps is there a problem.

I'll try the DSC off and if it goes away then i'll know that the defect is in this system. I have little to no faith in the local yocal service dept. I will send Mazda USA a letter re this defect. Given the response of others, this is not isolated to my car.YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST, MAZDA WILL RECALL THE RX8 FOR THIS DEFECT. When this happens you'll think, that guy was right!

Velocity red, r/b,gt 6spd, 6disc. 492 miles.

nahh vince this is definetly not a good thing. i really don't like wrestling with the steering wheel at freeway speeds to keep the car going where i intend it to. and it is a definite change from how it was before. like i said it feels like the breaks are pulling the car to one side or like bad torque steer on a front wheel drive. but not always to the same side.
________________________________________-

Amen brother, bad torque steer or a variably intermittent stuck caliper. At least on my old beaters with a stuck caliper, It was predictable and regular. Wrestling the steering wheel is very accurate. I wonder if it is in the electric steering. I read in a journal that the steering shaft IS the shaft of the electric motor. A first? I don't know what this means. It is dangerous and just started a few days ago. Owner since 8/11

i don't think it will be a recall but it should make service bulletin status.

i don't think it will be a recall but it should make service bulletin status.

__________________________________________________

Perhaps.

A TSB is possible, but mine is so bad it could cause loss of control at freeway speeds!

Audi had to recall ALL TTs because of high speed oversteer due to rear lift. That weird rear trunk slope. Notice ALL TTs have a rear spoiler, one of the few that actually reduces lift. Several crashes occured on the Autobahn because of this lack of downforce. I certainly hope no crashes occur to force a recall for the 8. If the problem is only a few cars then a quiet recall (TSB) would indeed happen.

Mine does it slightly too, but being a previous front wheel drive owner, it feels just like road wander when the tires needs to be rotated due to wear on the edges.

Keep your tires rotated and you shouldn't have a problem.

I've noticed the oversteer problem at low speed also, however I think that in my case, the pulling on the steering is entirely the fault of the road.

How about you find a good road, with nice, heavily worn ruts, and drive it at low speed (~5 mph) and see how the car pulls to each side depending on it's position in the ruts. It's totally normal for a car with this kind of suspension, and tire this wide.

You'll probably notice that the RX-8 feels like it has very solid, precise steering. This particular road feedback happens more often at low speed, due to speed based power steering amplification. At low speeds & rpms, is where the RX-8 is close to the lowest power steering boost...

If you try this out, and still think that it's not related to the road, it's going to be difficult to diagnose, esp if it only happens on bumpy roads.. It could be related to the suspension design, and the camber changing as the suspension length changes from bumps..

OverLOAD

Originally posted by zoom44
nahh vince this is definetly not a good thing. i really don't like wrestling with the steering wheel at freeway speeds to keep the car going where i intend it to. and it is a definite change from how it was before. like i said it feels like the breaks are pulling the car to one side or like bad torque steer on a front wheel drive. but not always to the same side.

Sorry about the confusion I was replying to Mark's post and he was talking about very low speed stuff and I didn't catch the high speed issue.

Sounds very scary, I would leave it at the dealer until fixed.

Vince

I've noticed this problem also. I first noticed it at about 250 miles on the car. It only seems to occur when coming to a stop on pavement that is rough on only one side. I believe the speed has been below 25 mph but I haven't verified it. The sudden pull of the wheel can be quite alarming although I've had no trouble keeping the car in line.

Originally posted by Zoom2X
I've noticed this problem also.... It only seems to occur when coming to a stop on pavement that is rough on only one side. I believe the speed has been below 25 mph but I haven't verified it. The sudden pull of the wheel can be quite alarming although I've had no trouble keeping the car in line.

Count me in on this one too. I thought it odd that the steering would pull a little at <10 mph on slight road imperfections.

Overload mentioned speed but also rpms. this does seem to happen more often or perhaps always at low rpms so it could be just suspension design. last night on my ride home i disabled the dsc and tcs. it seemed to me that i did not have the problem as much, i could still feel the wheels try to drive in the road ruts i did not get the heavier tug on the steering wheel that i have experienced before. i am going to try various sections of road with the electronics on and off over the next few days to check if i can replicate that or if it was just a particular stretch of road. could it be that the tcs is reacting to some tire slip or something when in the ruts and is applying brake to one side or the other? again i think Overloads point of low rpms is a key here. that piece of road i checked out last night i am usually in 6th at like 55-60 mph.

It was the same with my MX-3 GS.. At low RPM's the wheels would drift around more, esp when at low speed. When rolling to a stop in nuetral, the wheels really pulled into the ruts..

As for at 55 - 60 mpg in 6th.. that's about 2750 to 3000 rpms.. unless the road has some crazy grooves, or is sharply angled down, it shouldn't really pull at all.. What's the road like?

OverLOAD

Originally posted by OverLOAD
As for at 55 - 60 mpg in 6th.. that's about 2750 to 3000 rpms.. unless the road has some crazy grooves, or is sharply angled down, it shouldn't really pull at all.. What's the road like?

OverLOAD

well here in the Portland Oregon area most of the Highways have some pretty large ruts from people who drive around with their damn studded tires 6 months of the year. all in preperation for the 2 inches of snow we get twice a winter here. some areas are worse than others depending on when they were last paved but 90% of them are bigger than any ruts on the roads in the Northeast that i remember from 30 years of living in southeastern PA. i swear the salt used around Philly and surrounding counties is not nearly as harsh on the roads as the studs are. These ruts are usually a couple inches or more deep and hold water long enough for it to freeze in the colder parts of the winter, causing nice long stripes of ice in the lanes where you would normally drive. i hate studded tires:mad:

I think I'd start by having the module that controls the brake force distribution replaced.

It might be interacting with the Traction Control in an unfriendly way. It can't be torque steer (not on a front driver) or bump steer(ABS requires nuetral scrub radius), your tires seem okay, and I can't believe there's a power steering feedback loop that could override your hands (God, let's hope not). I'm left with brake force distribution.

Switch a new module in and out to isolate the solution.

BTW, my 8 doesn't do this. So far everything is A-OK. I love my 8.

RM

I think I'd start by having the module that controls the brake force distribution replaced.

It might be interacting with the Traction Control in an unfriendly way. It can't be torque steer (not on a front driver) or bump steer(ABS requires nuetral scrub radius), your tires seem okay, and I can't believe there's a power steering feedback loop that could override your hands (God, let's hope not). I'm left with brake force distribution.

Switch a new module in and out to isolate the solution

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You may be on to something here, my original problem is not following ruts or tramlinning. The steering wheel forcibly turns while braking on irregular pavement (EVEN WHILE STOPPED, THE WHEEL WILL PULL IF I PUMP THE BRAKES AFTER ONE OF THESE EPISODES). The wheel does not pull while stopped unless it pulled during a low speed stop. Today I tried with dsc off and got the SOS. I'll mention your suggestion to the service dept. Thanks.

Happens to me. About a 1/4 turn of the steering wheel, in either direction. Only when I'm coming to a stop. Doesn't take a *very* bumpy road. While it was alarming, it didn't feel unsafe, since it happens only at very low speed.

Is this something I should be worrying about???

Mark:

That sounds like you got major problems. Bring it to a shop you trust, and get them to experience it. That shouldn't ever happen. Get them to do the warranty stuff

Zoom44:

I've seen some pretty bad ruts all around the US and Canada. It's generally something you have to get used to . I never had the wheel pull so hard that I couldn't resist it, but sometimes it's really surprised me by jumping in my hands. The best recommendation is to keep a good solid 10 - 2 grip on the wheel. I don't like the feeling either, but the only way I know to eliminate that is with little wheels, and we don't want that.. ;)

OverLOAD

I noticed this problem during low speed breaking on a pretty flat road during a test drive. I thought it was a problem with that specific car, as the dealer has designated it as the test-drive vehicle. Hence, all of us have been beating on it pretty hard.

I take delivery Monday, and will watch out for this...

Thanks for the informative post.

mark
how about trying to engage the ABS?

try on a straight road, go up to about 50 and hit the brake, until ABS kicks in WHILE HOLDING THE STEERING STRAIGHT

from reading your post, i am not sure if you meant the car pulled due to the steering wheel turning or because of braking, hence holding your steering wheel straight.

if your calipers are binding, it should be pulling to one side when the abs is engaged on a straight road.

also, the 8's steering is quite sensative and if your steering has turned a quater, the pulling might just be you turning.

Originally posted by OverLOAD


Zoom44:

The best recommendation is to keep a good solid 10 - 2 grip on the wheel. I don't like the feeling either, but the only way I know to eliminate that is with little wheels, and we don't want that.. ;)

OverLOAD

i always drive with the 10-2 grip. it could be that i'm just not used to such large tire/wheels. but i'll still keep an ieye on it to see if it gets worse and will still have the brakes checked at the service especially the EBD module. thanks for the responses.

Steering update: I drove wiyh the salesman who agreed something is definitely wrong. Suggested taking the service guy for a drive (svc dept closed). I have found at low speed coming to a halt at a light, I can control the pull of the wheel by holding it firmly and it actually seems acceptable. If I let go of the wheel the car veers to either the right or left depending of the road. The same test in my X5 yields no aberrations in the steering. Moreover, I continued to pump the brakes which increased the turn of the wheel a full 3/4 turn! That's when my salesman said "something is wrong". At freeway speed, no matter how firmly I grip the wheel, it darts left in the uneven left turn lane requiring steering corection. ?DSC problem vs electric steering. I thought DSC was supposed to REDUCE OVERSTEER not jerk your car into the next lane. hmmmm?


VELOCITY RED,R/B 6SPD GT. OWNER SINCE 8/11 521 MILES

The symptoms you describe sound to me like your front end is toeing out. Just a thought, but have you been banging over any kerbs lately? The first thing I'd check would be the alignment.

I'll have the alignment checked also -good suggestion. I've been granny driving, only a pothole or two no curbs or Armco, yet to hit 8000rpm, oh but wait until tomorrow I should be at the magic 600 miles.

Well guys, I crossed 8500rom today and it was spectacular. I easily heard the beep others have complained about not hearing on other threads. When I drive fast, I turn the radio off and the Valentine one on max volume. Now the steering. No change it the veering on irregular pavement when braking. I have noticed a weird undulation in the wheel at times on smooth pavement while driving. Less so while going fast (go faster a solution? )

Velocity red, R/B,GT 6SPD,6DISC

And the watchman told, for the driving is like the driving of Jehu son of Nimshi for he driveth furously. II Kings 9:20

Originally posted by Mark
i don't think it will be a recall but it should make service bulletin status.

__________________________________________________

Perhaps.
Audi had to recall ALL TTs because of high speed oversteer due to rear lift. That weird rear trunk slope. Notice ALL TTs have a rear spoiler, one of the few that actually reduces lift. Several crashes occured on the Autobahn because of this lack of downforce. I certainly hope no crashes occur to force a recall for the 8. If the problem is only a few cars then a quiet recall (TSB) would indeed happen.

Speaking of exaggeration.
Audi recalled all TT's and added the spoiler after one guy, travelling around 130mph, in the rain, lost control and crashed, resulting in death.
Testing was done and published by Audi stating that there was 148lbs of lift at the rear at high speeds, and they added the spoiler.

Spoilers do not start to do anything on cars until at least 100mph, unless they are ridiculously huge things, like on those short track cars on dirt. And those are the almost the size of a sheet of plywood!

My RX-8 "hunts" a bit at the nose at around 165kmh.
A chin spoiler would likely diminish this..

See:
The actual dealer service bulletin:
http://steve-hall.com/audi-tsb/circ/KX_Cir_CAN.pdf

Press and media reports:
http://www.accidentreconstruction.com/news/oct99/102899a.html

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=3523

http://www.autointell-news.com/news-2000/January-2000/January-25-00-p8.htm

I remember reading in either Autoweek or Automotive News (industry trade journal) that there were SEVERAL high speed accidents due to rear lift in the TT, not just one idiot driving fast in the rain. If any exaggeration occured, the sources are respected journals as mentioned above and the Car and Driver article you were so kind enough to link in your reply. My 8 tracks as if on rails, except as mentioned when braking on irregular pavement. Check engine light came and went twice yesterday. I am beginning to worry a bit.

Originally posted by Mark
Steering update: I drove wiyh the salesman who agreed something is definitely wrong. Suggested taking the service guy for a drive (svc dept closed). I have found at low speed coming to a halt at a light, I can control the pull of the wheel by holding it firmly and it actually seems acceptable. If I let go of the wheel the car veers to either the right or left depending of the road. The same test in my X5 yields no aberrations in the steering. Moreover, I continued to pump the brakes which increased the turn of the wheel a full 3/4 turn! That's when my salesman said "something is wrong". At freeway speed, no matter how firmly I grip the wheel, it darts left in the uneven left turn lane requiring steering corection. ?DSC problem vs electric steering. I thought DSC was supposed to REDUCE OVERSTEER not jerk your car into the next lane. hmmmm?


VELOCITY RED,R/B 6SPD GT. OWNER SINCE 8/11 521 MILES
Considering that you aren't supposed to pump the brakes with ABS, is it possible that you are causing the problem by pumping?

Considering that you aren't supposed to pump the brakes with ABS, is it possible that you are causing the problem by pumping?
________________________________________________

The only pumping I do is for test purposes. The pumping I describe is when the car is FULLY STOPPED and the wheel continues to turn in the same direction under non pumping braking. This should NEVER happen, not ever in over thirty cars I have owned (even with bad calipers). The defect in braking has been demonstrated to my salesman who agrees something is wrong although I fear the service dept may say it is something I'm doing or "it's the pavement". I'm taking them for a drive this week. We'll see.

I don't know if this has anything to do with it but I was looking at various sections of the workshop manual the other day and it mentioned that under certain conditions you may need to re-set the steering centerline recognition. An example given was if the negative battery cable was disconnected. It mentioned that the DSC could malfunction otherwise( potentially causing loss of control)

This theory really has possibilities, Thanks. I have no idea if the svc dept knows of this but i'll mention it along with other ideas as dsc module, and alignment.

The low speed pulling just before you stop is normal, I have it, and have had it on the other sports cars I've owned... it is driven by different grip form each of the front wheels.

The high speed issue sounds definitely like a problem.

Originally posted by CERAMICSEAL
I don't know if this has anything to do with it but I was looking at various sections of the workshop manual the other day and it mentioned that under certain conditions you may need to re-set the steering centerline recognition. An example given was if the negative battery cable was disconnected. It mentioned that the DSC could malfunction otherwise( potentially causing loss of control)

I'm bettin' this is your problem. Any chance you may have disconnected the battery, say, to install an electrical mod or something? If so, here's the procedure you need to follow (from the mp3 installation guide):

Disconnecting the battery causes the DSC indicator light to become inoperable. (At this point, the DSC OFF indicator light flashes and the TCS/DSC indicator light is illuminated.)

To restore the DSC to an operable condition, perform the following procedures:
1. Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
2. Turn the steering wheel completely to the right and then completely to the left.
3. Verify that the DSC OFF indicator light goes out.
4. Turn the ignition switch off and then turn it to the ON position again.
5. Verify that the TCS/DSC indicator light does out.
If the TCS/DSC or DSC OFF indicator lights do not go out after turning the ignition switch to the ON position, consult your Mazda dealer.


For what it's worth...

I am going to try this, I have not done any mods to discinnect the battery, however I had the dealer install a factory in dash 6 disc unit which could be the culprit. I have turned the dsc off with the button and it seems to turn on ok based on the dash lights.Thanks for the input.

I disconnected my battery today, and after re-attaching powr had the same DSC flight flashing as described.
After following the calibration procedure as described above, and in the manual, the light went off and DSC returned to normal state.
Before and after I detect no symptoms like you describe.

I suspect that if it IS a DSC problem, there may be a fault in the DSC or perhaps in one of the wheel sensors.

Low profile tires are very sensitive to road change. The sidewalls do not flex much and will pull hard into pavement groves. You should ask the A/T RX-8 drivers W/16" wheels if they have any steering problems. I know the pull on my 8 is about the same as my FD w/ 18" wheels and low profile tires. However, you guys that think it is extreme should have it checked out.

What happened, did your problem go away when you followed the steps above or do you still have it? I haven't experienced anything like what was described but it's my wife's daily driver and now you've got me thinking about freeway chutes and stuff. I've only experienced perfect handling on the freeway and the backroads. Hope you find your problem and get it fixed. Let us know.

Took the service guy for a ride , Normal behavior for the low profile tires! I don't like that answer. I drove a buddy's Z4 and my brothers Vette which did not demonstrate any steering shenanigins. My 8 only developed this after about 350 miles. I am going to test drive another 8 on the exact road where my wheel pulls and see if it acts the same. Of note, I drove the turn bay from the freeway again at 50mph holding the wheel tight and felt a slight tug toward the crown/irregular pavement but no darting as before. I then turned around at the Wendy's and re ran the same road at the same speed lightly holding the wheel and voila! the front end darted to the left. Perhaps this is normal, if so you better make dang sure you keep a firm grip on the wheel. Still does not explain why the wheel continues to pull while FULLY STOPPED if I pump the brake pedal. I have NEVER seen this in over thirty cars owned and hundreds driven. Sadly, I am planning to return this great car to Mazda and likely buy again in about a year if all the bugs are worked out. Oil light came on and went off , Level still above the mark from day one. This clinched the decision for me. My last drive will be back to the dealer. Hope to rejoin you guys as an owner in in late 04.

Originally posted by Mark
Took the service guy for a ride , Normal behavior for the low profile tires! I don't like that answer. I drove a buddy's Z4 and my brothers Vette which did not demonstrate any steering shenanigins. My 8 only developed this after about 350 miles. I am going to test drive another 8 on the exact road where my wheel pulls and see if it acts the same. Of note, I drove the turn bay from the freeway again at 50mph holding the wheel tight and felt a slight tug toward the crown/irregular pavement but no darting as before. I then turned around at the Wendy's and re ran the same road at the same speed lightly holding the wheel and voila! the front end darted to the left. Perhaps this is normal, if so you better make dang sure you keep a firm grip on the wheel. Still does not explain why the wheel continues to pull while FULLY STOPPED if I pump the brake pedal. I have NEVER seen this in over thirty cars owned and hundreds driven. Sadly, I am planning to return this great car to Mazda and likely buy again in about a year if all the bugs are worked out. Oil light came on and went off , Level still above the mark from day one. This clinched the decision for me. My last drive will be back to the dealer. Hope to rejoin you guys as an owner in in late 04.

Low profile tires are more sensitive to the road but not as bad as you you are saying. I think your 8 has bigger problems. Let us know how the other 8 reacts on the same road. If you really want a scare, put some slow speed rated snow tires on those wheels.:D

After 450 miles, 19mpg, the car has developed a significant pull to the right or left when braking on bumpy or irregular pavement. The steering wheel turns a full quarter under these conditions. This occurs at low speed when coming to a traffic light or on the freeway when braking in a turn bay with uneven pavement (very scary which required quick correction). The sterring wheel turns right or left depending on the pavement and is very reproduceable. THIS NEVER OCCURS ON SMOOTH PAVEMENT.My car started doing that at about 8500 miles. I don't think about alignment problems when the car drives straight and true at any speed. However, when I brake to a stop and the wheel whips 90-degrees to the right in the last 5 feet as I come to a full stop I'm alarmed. It seems to repeat at certain intersections and not at others and once it went to the left instead of the right.

Happens to me. About a 1/4 turn of the steering wheel, in either direction. Only when I'm coming to a stop. Doesn't take a *very* bumpy road. While it was alarming, it didn't feel unsafe, since it happens only at very low speed.Same here - after it happened I paid far more attention to the tracking at speed and the car seems solid. Why only in the last few feet of braking. How is it that people don't discuss this more?

Count me in on this one too. I thought it odd that the steering would pull a little at <10 mph on slight road imperfections.It first happened to me after the winter tires had been on for about 5 months. It was time to swap to summer tires so I figured if it's a slight pressure or wear issue that will affect the brake-pulling. Nope, happens about the same on the summer OEM tires. Brake-pulling isn't even the right word - the car isn't pulling, when the wheel whips over the car doesn't go far to the side because it is already nearly stopped.

These pages don't show a resolution - did everyone suddenly decide to live with it?

The only times I've ever noticed it is when there's bad ruts in the road. I make sure to have a firm hold on the wheel at those intersections, and everything's good.

The only times I've ever noticed it is when there's bad ruts in the road. I make sure to have a firm hold on the wheel at those intersections, and everything's good.You have the same '90-degree whip' like 'stangmatt66 and I?

Again, as I stated, this is ONLY while braking to come to a complete stop. It usally occurs in the last 5-20 feet of the stop.

The car seems very sensitive to roads where depressions have been made by high traffic or overweight trucks. It's particularly noticable when nearing the end of a stop.

Could it be that the sensors in the electric power steering get a little too helpful under these conditions?How about that electric power steering? Does the dynamic assist really have so much range?

Try it with wide 275 series tires and 9.5" rims..... The road is the contributing factor...

It is OK with the stock wheels :)

If you want ultra-unresponsive steering, you can always buy a cadilac, or an excursion.

The symptom you describe, of having the wheel whip suddenly one direction
when the car is nearly stopped really sounds like a brake caliper is seized or you
have a bubble in the brake fluid.

Not as noticable at high speed, when the motion of the car keeps the wheel
somewhat straight.

Jack up the front end, get both front wheels spinning (by hand works fine),
and have someone slowly depress the brake pedal.
See if one wheel stops before the other. If the system is working correctly,
both wheels should stop nearly simultaneously.

You have the same '90-degree whip' like 'stangmatt66 and I?

There is this one particular intersection with some pretty severe ruts (like 2 inches, so severe being a relative term). If I'm not lined up correctly as I pull to a stop, the steering wheel will buck to whichever side is "down" the slope of the rut. The first time it happened the car nearly went off the road even though I was almost stopped, so I'd say it was pretty close to 90 deg.

It's the only intersection I've been through with bad ruts, and it's the only place I've ever had the wheel snap around like that. If I'm a little right of the center of the rut, it'll snap left. If I'm left of center it'll snap right. So I just center myself before I get there and it won't pull as much (cuz I'm not perfect and can't get perfectly centered on it). It does occur on other intersections with not-so-bad ruts, but not as much.

It's the only intersection I've been through with bad ruts, and it's the only place I've ever had the wheel snap around like that. If I'm a little right of the center of the rut, it'll snap left. If I'm left of center it'll snap right. So I just center myself before I get there and it won't pull as much (cuz I'm not perfect and can't get perfectly centered on it). It does occur on other intersections with not-so-bad ruts, but not as much.

windy hill and 41 by chance? the left turn lanes off of windy hill onto 41 NB have really bad ruts, and the first time i experienced them, i almost side swiped a car.

The symptom you describe, of having the wheel whip suddenly one direction
when the car is nearly stopped really sounds like a brake caliper is seized or you
have a bubble in the brake fluid.

Not as noticable at high speed, when the motion of the car keeps the wheel
somewhat straight.

Jack up the front end, get both front wheels spinning (by hand works fine),
and have someone slowly depress the brake pedal.
See if one wheel stops before the other. If the system is working correctly,
both wheels should stop nearly simultaneously.Would such a phenomenon be intermittent or partially road-dependent? The local dealer has, ah, disappointed me lately so I don't expect I can go in there and get any kind of service for an intermittent problem.

Zoom44 is a bit overdue to weight in - hey Zoom44, what did you finally decide about your car 2.5 years ago?

windy hill and 41 by chance? the left turn lanes off of windy hill onto 41 NB have really bad ruts, and the first time i experienced them, i almost side swiped a car.

Nope, the one I'm talking about is in the right lane at the intersection of Holcomb Bridge and P'tree Corners Pkwy (going south on HB).

I've experienced this on my 05 as well. It hasn't been severe but it def catches me off guard.

My car is stock except for painted calipers. The problem happened before that though.

Suggestion; if you have any friends w/different tires (#) than yourselves..... might ask if you can drive their cars (#). I found changing tires made the biggest difference in this 'problem' area. Meaning some tires will be better, some the same, and some possibly worse.

But more likely differences in tire (#) belt construction or tread design, or rubber composition...those types of things contribute more than anything else. IMHO blaming the car (#) is the wrong direction to go w/this - Why? Too many people (#) experience this and wonder for it to be something so unlikely as a misalignment, for example. Of course the cars inherent sport type handling contribute, but that is the nature of our beast. We don't have shock (#) dampers in the steering (#) mechanism, we don't have upteen turns lock-to-lock to softwn the feel, etc is what I'm getting at. Reflect on all those who have come before your experience and how they have come to a resolution.

For myself, this 'problem' pretty much disappeared after ditching the Bridgestones for the Falken RT-615s. Why? well, the Falkens are a much MUCH softer riding tire, a nice cushy ride in fact, w/far less bump thump, HUGHLY less tire noise and a slightly 'softer' steering response (you don't feel like the slightest twitch of the steering wheel (http:///#) sends the car off in a new direction instantaneously).

Maybe this helps you I hope?

Suggestion; if you have any friends w/different tires (#) than yourselves..... might ask if you can drive their cars (#). I found changing tires made the biggest difference in this 'problem' area. Meaning some tires will be better, some the same, and some possibly worse.I thought it would be a big difference between my narrower 17" winter tires and the widers 18" OEM summer tires, but there didn't seem to be.

You say the Falken RT-615s are softer. Did they totally remove your road feel or just make it slightly more civilized? Have they worn well over the miles?

There is plenty of road feel, just different. These are my track tires (http:///#) after all, and I'd rip them off in a nanosec if they were anything but stellar!

I got them when they were just out early '05, so no one had any tests or reviews of them. Pig in a poke, so to speak. So the day I put them on, when I was driving (http:///#) home from the dealer (http:///#), I thought "Oh #!it!, I'm screwed! I've lost that 'on a rail' feel..."

Well, of course that was an a-b knee-jerk response right after the switchover, but I would say in retrospect it was probably a small, but yes, a noticeable 'civilizing' of the steering (http:///#) feel. I'm used to it now and it's a more comfortable feel, less paying attention to every little road irregularity. I have the feeling the treads just "engulf" any small road ruts or bumps.... it's a very reassuring feeling that you aren't going to go 'crash, bang' just because the road isn't perfect. They just go 'caflump' and roll on.

They were near the treadwear indicators after 10K miles, but that also included an active track season. I bought new ones this year, just wider. They're awesome really, supple on the highway, delightful on track....but I don't mean to sound like a commercial.