I have decided that I am giving Mazda my RX-8 back.
While it is fun to drive, the negative aspects have now overwhelmed me.

Here is my experience:

Lack of power

The brochure I was given this spring when I paid my deposit claimed 250HP.
When it was shipped to me Mazda had reduced that to 247HP.
After we started taking delivery of the car and many of us said "There is no way in hell this is making 247HP!" they reduced it again to 238HP.
The powertrain in this car is similar to the Miata.
Same transmission and differential unit. Lighter driveshaft.
The Miata drivetrain takes 25HP from the total the engine puts out.
If we apply that to the 238HP claimed now, we get 213HP.
Dynos done on this car range from 165HP to 186HP.

That is still down by 27HP from the 3rd claim they are now making.

A Volkswagen Golf, with 1 1.8 litre turbo makes a claimed 180HP.
It accelerates EXACTLY the same as my RX-8.

I drove an Audi TT yesterday, with the same 1.8l engine,
but more boost and other items allow Audi to claim 225HP
from that engine.
It is WAY faster than my RX-8.
It weighs the same, BTW, so that is not the difference.

God awful gas mileage.
My Honda Odyssey gets 11.2l/100km
My Chev 3/4 ton truck with a 350 V8 gets 13.6/100
The Nissan Setra SE-R Spec V that I sold to buy this car made
190HP at the front wheels on a dyno ( two dynos actually,
I got it tested at two places) and got 12.4/100
My buddy's pathfinder gets 12.7/100
My RX-8 gets 15.8/100

A friends RX-7 3rd gen, twin turbo, with boost controller, and Apexi computer, and lots of other mods makes around 300+HP, and gets better mileage than my RX-8!

I have had no problem driving within 10% of the EPA mileage figures on every other car I presently or previously owned.

Roasting feet.
When I turn on the fan hot air comes out of the vents.
To drive around I have to turn on the air conditioner.
If I just turn on the fan my wife and daughter tell me to turn it off as they are cooking.

Not suitable for winter
No way to get a block heater, even though I paid for one on my sales invoice. Dealer won't do it, Mazda Canda has no solution.
Dealer put it on the sales invoice, I did not have to ask for it.
Dealer did not bother to mention they did not do it. Only noticed last week, when I was starting to plan winter preparation, and notice there is no cord. The dealer and Mazda Canada tell me they have no solution at this time. They do not have a block heater part, or a way to install one.
I live in Edmonton, for crying out loud. Last March it hit -30C one night ( -22 for you Yanks). I guess the heat out put around the feet might have come in useful there, but we found one more bug:

Turn on the heat to about halfway.
Set the ventilation mode to heat the windshield and the floor, no air from the dash.
When heating up a car when it is cold out I want hot air on the windshield to thaw it, and the rest to the floor to heat it and drive the cold up and out, and to melt the snow on your feet, and dry out the floor mats.
I do NOT want it coming out the dash and blowing in my face.

Whan you do this on the RX-8, the air conditioning comes on and blows cold air on your feet.
Doh!
Again I talked to Mazda about that little detail, and they said nothing could be done about it.

Oil light on the dash.
When I go at higher speeds on the highway, it comes on after about 10 minutes.
I hear they know about that problem in the USA and Australia.
They did not know about it in Canada until last week, when I called them about it,
I got tired of hearing them repeatedly telling me my oil must be low,
and me telling them that it is topped up.
Finally I insisted they call Mazda USA and check.
They got back to me to say there would be a service bulletin.
In at least two weeks. They apparently have to translate it into French first.
They are ordering the parts this coming week, so they will be here in about a month.
I explained that I plan a rather longish road trip at the end of the month, and hoped it could be fixed by then, so that if I really did have an oil problem I would know about it.
They tell me that is not going to happen soon.

Little things
The floor mat on the drivers side. In Canada they put the hole for the clip in the wrong place.
Considering my sale was registered in mid July with them, and I got my customer satisfaction
questionaire a month ago, they have had lots of time to send me a new floor mat.

The brochure listed a leather covered parking brake lever. No leather.
The brochure listed 2 12 volt outlets, one in the dash, and one in the console.
And a cigarette lighter. ( I smoke).
I thought this would be perfect. One for my cell phone or a GPS, and one for a radar detector.
Once I got the car I found no outlet in the dash. When I called Mazda Canada and asked they said the lighter is IN the dash outlet. The guy said I shud be grateful as they gave me a "free lighter". The brochure lists the lighter..

Mazda lied about the power (THREE TIMES), lied about the blockheater, lied about the interior items, and lied about the gas mileage.

And they refuse to fix ANY of these problems.
The odd items they have owned up to, are taking forever to fix.

They can take this car and shove it!

I am eagerly waiting for the response from my letter,
so I can (hopefully) get rid of this lemon soon.

Sorry you're unhappy, Canzoomer. I suppose if we'd all had a chance to test-drive, more people could have sorted out teir opinions of the RX-8 a little more before making a purchase. I hope your repurchase goes smoothly -- I'm curious to hear feedback as the repurchases take place.

Sounds like everyone will soon be happier.

I'm confused about the engine block heater option (in cars in general). Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this just to heat up the engine during the winter season? Why is this necessary when given time, the engine will "warm up" by itself?

Canzoomer: you complain about your roasting feet and not getting an engine block heater. If the rotary engine generates THAT much heat (and if I understand correctly the function of the block heater), then why would you still need one? Although I do see your point about roasted feet in the summer time (how about just putting the A/C on the floor setting when your feet get toasty?)

this thread is laughable...........are you kidding me?..........I currently own the 2003 Jetta 1.8 T which will be my winter car maybe, and the 8 I test drove, as well as the friend who I bug to take me out in his all the time, is way faster, and handles like a dream.....I am amazed at the people on here touting some cover-up about the HP, etc etc etc.....hahaha..........god, you must be right, they are all behind it, even the 5-7 magazines that tested the car.....its all a lye........come on..........please speak the facts, before you post this kind of stuff..............as far as facts, the 1.8T does 0-60 in 7.6secs froma standstill...........and is also way slowerrrrrrr in the 1/4 mile.........there are some great posts on here, but some that make me laugh........this car has great punch, and performance, yet some want to thrive on the negative, or try and find some?......I wonder what have been the response if the car was rated at 230hp, and came out at 238?.........like come on guys, there is no cover-up here, and the car has plaenty get up and go.....I have been in an s2000, owned a 330i, a prelude, and the 8 is faster than all except maybe the s2000, but much smoother excelleration in the 8.............if you return the car, I hope that means you won't post here anymore....sorry about the sarcasm, but it blows my mind at the things people post here.......at how off on the facts they are......

are you kidding?............driven in the Audi and it is a dog off the line..........the mags had this one right as far as the slowest 0-60 times...........7.4secs..................are you drving the same 8?.........my buddies 8 goes like snot!.........but by no means is it the fastest thing on the road........but great car, great styling....unique.............don't post BS about a 1.8t being faster, or an Audi TT..............god that drives me nuts when someone posts garbage like that........sorry your unhappy with the car.............one of the very few I am sure........but with all cars, 350Z, G35.etc, I guess there will always be some people that just love misery.............lol

I'm confused about the engine block heater option (in cars in general). Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this just to heat up the engine during the winter season? Why is this necessary when given time, the engine will "warm up" by itself?

It's not quite as bad in modern cars, but in older cars a block heater really was necessary. Given that the car will warm up by itself, when you're in the great white north it's not quite as easy. When it's about -20 F and about -50 F wind chill an engine isn't quite as willing to turn over if it's been sitting out. Even for about an hour at those temps. Though block heaters are becoming more rare on modern cars. I haven't seen one come standard on a car in years.

canzoomer, you are rapidly becoming a laughing stock here. Your repeated claims that a stock TT is faster than an RX-8 are a joke - there isn't a single magazine test of either car, no matter how you mix and match, that has seen a TT post a faster 0-60 or 1/4 mile time than an RX-8. Of course, that's assuming there are competent drivers testing the cars. Yeah, the TT is a nice car, a great cruiser, but a sports car? It just doesn't cut it.

Since you want to cross post your rantings in multiple forums, here's a response I wrote to this same post in one of the other forums:

Originally posted by canzoomer
So, I was rather hoping to get the in-dash 12 volt outlet and the lighter, as promised.


canzoomer, you are one stubborn and pigheaded person! This has been explained to you multiple times, yet you seem to believe that you are the only one that can count. Instead of insisting that everyone else is wrong, perhaps you might consider that you made an assumption that was incorrect?

YOU assume that the word "lighter" means "lighter with associated, exclusive 12 volt socket to put it in"

EVERYONE else (including the manufacturers, and not just MAZDA), believes that the word "lighter" just means the piece that heats up that you apply to your cigarette to get it to ignite. It does NOT mean a 12 volt outlet.

For example - a Miata has a 12 volt outlet, no lighter. A RX-8 has 1 12 volt outlet and 1 lighter (for sake of discussion, we're ignoring the 2nd 12 volt outlet at the rear of the console box). The difference? JUST the lighter - they both have 1 12 volt outlet.

Do you understand the difference? Please answer specifically - is there any possibility that your assumed definition of "lighter" is incorrect??? Or are all the rest of us ignorant, lying, deceitful, untrustworthy scumbags?

Look, I've tried to be polite, but your pigheadedness about some of these issues and your refusal to consider that you might be incorrect are just incredible. So let's consider your beloved Audi TT, according to you a much better sports car, that's faster and better handling.

Really?

Hmm, look up any road tests lately?

Did you read .this Car and Driver comparison test (http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=6846) , where the 225-bhp Audi TT roadster finishes last in a comparison with the BMW Z4, Honda S2000, 350Z Touring, and Boxster? The test where they said The TT is a passably fast car in a test-numbers sort of way—0 to 60 in 6.9 seconds and 0.81 g of neck-bending cornering force in our skidpad test—but it can't begin to keep up with the others here. And now the bottom line—it doesn't want to.

Sports cars have a sort of Reebok sure-footed quickness about them that is completely absent in the TT. No surprise, really. This two-seater is built on a VW-sedan platform, your basic all-wheel-drive Golf togged out in designer duds. And that's the way it dances, with too much pitch and dive following throttle changes and too much wait-for-me when you steer. It's always a step behind the beat. Wait, what was that? The 225 hp TT tests at 1 second slower to 60 than an RX-8, and .1g less in cornering capability, and much longer stopping distances? But you say that it's faster and handles better than the RX-8?

How about This Car and Driver comparison test (http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=1938) , where the 180 bhp TT quattro coupe is compared with the Mustang Mach 1, 350Z, and Honda S2000? The test where the TT again finished last, and they said No one here dares dispute the TT's beauty, just the sacrifices one makes in comfort because of its styling and in performance because of its 1.8T engine and plebeian Golf chassis.

Fourth Place
Audi TT 1.8T Quattro

Highs: Machine-turned cockpit, form-fitting chairs, sculpted to sweep Pebble Beach in 2050.

Lows: Not enough go, stop, or steer.

The Verdict: An exercise in artistry that loses out to real cars.
the TT is lethargic off the line. We didn't see 60 mph until 7.3 seconds, a full second behind the S2000, the next-slowest sprinter and a car particularly unsuited to drag racing.

The TT's internally combusted laziness shows up in other ways. Blip the throttle during a downshift, for example, and the engine gives a half-hearted answer. It thrashes angrily ascending to higher revs despite the five valves snapping over each cylinder. Forced to row the shifter to keep the TT boiling, drivers become intimate with its foam-padded, unsatisfying feel.
The TT steers sharply on the road and even felt reasonably comfortable to some lapping the 1.53 miles of the BeaveRun road course (see page 60). However, all agreed that the brakes were the first to fade, and the body did considerable teetering on its soft springs. Understeer overrules the grip in the harder corners, so it's no surprise that the Audi turned the lowest skidpad number by 0.04 g and the lowest average speed on the track by 4.4 mph.

Hmm, isn't it funny that other comparison tests that have included the RX-8 against some of these same competitors place the RX-8 first rather than last, yet you insist that the TT is the better sports car? I suppose if you don't include acceleration, braking, or cornering, responsiveness, shift quality, weight (the TT is 200 or 300 lbs heavier than the RX-8), then the TT might be the better sports car.

You also probably didn't read
this Car and Driver long term test (http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=39&article_id=3185) , where they said The acceleration numbers did, however, improve appreciably as the engine loosened up with mileage, as our final test numbers reflect. With 40,198 miles showing on the clock, the TT clipped to 60 mph in 7.3 seconds and ran the quarter-mile in 15.5 seconds at 88 mph, which was 0.2 second and 2 mph faster than the green TT. Hmph, how about that - a car that made more power and got faster when it had some significant break-in miles on it (40K miles, in the TT's case). Of course, there's NO reason to suspect that the RX-8 engine might also loosen up and develop more power, is there, even though compaddict's dyno tests at 2000 and 4000 miles already showed 9 extra hp from the 2000 extra miles. Only TT's can get more power and get faster once they've got a bunch of miles on them, right?

Face it - the TT is not a better sports car. By every test (and sorry, I don't consider your butt dyno a reliable indicator of which car is faster), the RX-8 is faster, quicker, lighter, better braking, and better handling, than a TT. Of course, the fact that you faced off against a Golf 1.8T that was probably modified, and was probably piloted by a better driver, and got humiliated is enough reason to buy a TT and pretend that you're getting a better sports car.

Care to define for us what "sports car" means to you? Because most of us look at acceleration, top speed, braking, and handling, along with responsiveness, shift and steering feel, etc. to define "sports car".

But hey, keep hanging around here, keep reading the dyno tests as the cars get broken in and the power increases. When the stock RX-8s with 8K or 10K miles are making 210 rwhp (ie around 238 flywheel hp), will you post an apology for calling Mazda liars about the rated power? We know how big you are on apologies, after all...


[Edit] - one final wrap-up, with a quote from EVO magazine ( www.evo.co.uk ) where they compared the RX-8 against the Golf R32, the winner of their previous hot hatch test (which has the more powerful 240 hp VR6 and AWD drivetrain - basically, the best version of the Golf platform, TT notwithstanding). Here's what they had to say:But the RX-8 is sexier. Better looking. Quieter, smoother and more comfortable. Almost as fast. Better balanced. More fun to drive down a truly demanding road. And, perhaps because of all of that, more interesting. No, it doesn't have the Golf's macho bark. Nor its grip and instantly accessible grunt. If you're in a hot hatch frame of mind, it just won't do. But if you believe that the best drivers' cars are not necessarily the quickest, but those that blend dynamics and performance so seamlessly and cohesively that the driving experience is a powerful singularity rather than a collection of dazzling party tricks, the RX-8 hits the sweet spot with uncanny accuracy.Hmm, RX-8 wins again!

Regards,
Gordon

finally, someone that posts facts.......your right, buy every measure, the 8 is superior..............all the mags have put it up against some great cars, and it has come out on top............I can't figure these people out....the engine in this car won a major award !..........but I guess that must have be rigged too........geessssh........

Gordon, I am in edmonton, but don't get my black GT 6sp until next spring....love to see yours......jwks77@hotmail.com..........can you tell I am a huge fan......haha.......just jealous I guess that you have yours now, and I have to wait......email me and I'll zip my cell of to you.........takecare..........J

Originally posted by Kawi
It's not quite as bad in modern cars, but in older cars a block heater really was necessary. . . .

Thanks for the info, Kawi! Much appreciated!

i will despute the tt's beauty..it looks like a vw bug on drugs...the tt is not all that fast, and its more of a girls car. the 8 is a new breed of sports cars too come. if you didn't like it im sure the next person will...now go to www.audittforum.com ...haha

Bravo Gordon! Please copy your post above to the other threads where CanZoomer makes his odious comparisons so that newbies are not deceived.

Well, heck.

I guess I was mistaken.

According to you, eeverything is fine, and the car is nearly perfect.

So I assume you will all be declining the $500 and the free service, correct?

That just would not be fair, would it?

Canzoomer is upset, but not all of his points are incorrect. Everyone shouldn't be so biased and blind to the problems that the car does have. While some of his complaints were trivial, the mileage and power issue (for some of our cars) is a REALITY.

Before everyone gets all worked up and posts magazine review times to back up their statements, go out and time your cars through the 1/4 and see. Or even use a stopwatch for a 0-60! A G-Tech would be a good thing to put to use if you owned one. You might be suprised by the numbers you get...

I am not talking about the "9 horsepower missing". Make no mistake, if your car is like mine, it is really more like 25hp.

Just remember that if the opportunity comes where you are actually in a position to "race" another one of those cars. I have been there already a couple times, and it is quite a reality check.

C&D, R&T, and Mazda have all run 14.5s in the 1/4 mile. My guess is that if they took half of the cars from the people on this forum, they would not be able to reproduce those results. With 180rwhp they would be lucky to get into the 14s at all. That is a fact...

Originally posted by OmegaBob
I'm confused about the engine block heater option (in cars in general). Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this just to heat up the engine during the winter season? Why is this necessary when given time, the engine will "warm up" by itself?



At -15 oil is no longer a liquid, it is a thick goo.
At -40 it is almost a solid.

Synthetics like Mobil1 are not nearly so bad in these conditions, but Mazda have sternly warned us against using anything other than regular 5W-20 oil in this engine. I have to believe they have a reason for saying this.
Certainly the owners manual say that using anything else will void the warranty.

When you start your engine the oil has to be pumped by the oil pump through passages to lubricate teh bearings and moving parts of the engine.

With no block heater, there is almost no oil pressure at very cold temperatures until the engine heats up the oil enough for it to thin out.

This can take aup to 30 seconds before full oil pressure is reached. That is VERY hard on the bearings.

Secondly, with no block heater, there is a risk of the water in the engine freezing.
You can add antifreeze, but at -40 it still is getting close to freezing. I have seen -50 here once or twice.

Yes, I could keep it in a garage, but if you drive somewhere and park for a few hours?

It is also very hard on the starter motor and battery to start a car when extremely cold. At -30 your battery only puts out about half as much power as at normal tempertures.

A block heater is just a heating coil that inserts in a hole in the block into the water in the cooling system. It heats the water, which heats the rest of the engine, and the oil.

The Dealer and Mazda Canada can not put one in as there is no place to do so on the RX-8.
There are other kinds of heaters. The best is a recirculating heater with pump which inserts into the heater hose.

They say they will not put that in as it might constitute a warranty problem.

With the climate where i live we are only frost free from mid April to mid September, and we can get -30 or colder from late October until late March. Not the whole time, but it can happen any time in that range.

With a block heater and appropriate snow tires one can drive pretty well year round.
No block heater could cost me at least 2 or 3 months of the year.

dude, I feel for you.. It really does suck for the RX-8 to be a huge disappointment for you.

BTW, if conditions are that harsh where you live, buying a sportscar might not have been the wisest choice.

But that's besides the point..

Best of luck to you on your RX-8 replacement.

I didn't see Canzoomer say anything about the TT or the GTI being a better sportscar, I felt like he was just using them as a comparison in HP and speed. A 225 HP TT coupe (Gordos examples were 180 HP models or the heavier cabrio) would probably be pretty comparable to a RX-8. I don't see any reason why the sound of the engine and or the lovely boost wouldn't make it feel faster. Feel has a lot to do with it since it's something that you guys use in your defense rather often. The GTIs numbers are pretty close on paper to what a non 8k launch in the RX-8 might be like, mid 6s 0-60 and low 15s 1/4.

I'm not taking sides here but parts of Gordos post were a bit misleading. I will agree on one thing though, the TT is a pig and not much on a road course. But I do think Canzoomer had some legitimate gripes, but some of you guys just go for the juglar when someone doesn't like the RX-8 as much as you do.

Ike


P.S. Easy on the periods there Broker

I kinda agree with the above post..

In canzoomer's defense, I've owned a '01 Audi TT, and I would say that with the turbo, the Audi TT can feel quite fast at times. It is certainly capable of delivering a stronger "punch" sensation when the turbo kicks in then the the RX-8 at any gear, under normal driving conditions. However if you're dropping the clutch at high RPMs on the RX-8, perhaps you might get the same sensation. I've chirped my tires going about 45 when I quickly released my clutch at around 8k RPMs in 4th gear, but nobody really drives like that. Under normal driving conditions, the TT gives a stronger punch most of the time, but the acceleration drops off quickly, whereas the RX8 continues to push steadily forward.

I can also attest to the fact that the TT has superb handling, perhaps as tight or tighter than the RX8. The RX-8 has more body roll, however the TT has more pitch and dive. But overall they both have excellent grip. The TT's AWD will certainly kick the RX8's grip on wet surfaces, no doubt.

And lastly the Audi has MUCH better mileage. For the same somewhat semi-heavy-footed driving, I average 22mpg, while on the RX-8, I'm currently averaging 15mpg. The best I got on the TT was 27mpg driving miss daisy, while my best tank on the RX8 averaged barely just below 18mpg driving around the same old bag.

[edit] the 01 TT coupe quattro weighs 250 pounds MORE than the 6-speed MT RX-8

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
canzoomer, you are rapidly becoming a laughing stock here.


If you say so. I believe everything i have said is factual.
If you disagree with me, that is certainly your right, and I would defend your right to say it.
However, personal insults are another story.
Since you are such a "holier than thou asshole", let's take a look at your response below, and see those items a bit more closely.



Your repeated claims that a stock TT is faster than an RX-8 are a joke - there isn't a single magazine test of either car, no matter how you mix and match, that has seen a TT post a faster 0-60 or 1/4 mile time than an RX-8. z



Let's start with the Audi Canada brochure for the 2001 TT, with the 225HP engine. Oh, maybe you did not know they offered two engines in this car?
Well, here are the facts:
225HP. 207 lbs. ft. of torque.
Independant dyno testing shows this engine puts down about 190+ HP to the wheels as stock.
Considering this is a full time 4 wheel drive "Quattro" that is impressive.
Apparently they are able to get driveline losses at around 15 to 16% on a 4 wheel drive system. Or perhaps they are understating the power. What a novel concept. Mazda should check into it sometime.

If we believe Mazdas claims of 238HP and the dyno results we see here of 186HP, then Mazda is losing about 22%. IF we believe Mazda about the 238HP.

The Quattro has almost no wheel slippage , so it is more difficult to do a 1/4 mile, but it still pulls at 14.2 seconds per Audi specs, and this is confirmed at various strips by owners.
0 to 60 is 6.3 seconds, also confirmed in private tests.

Mazda CLAIMS a 14.5 quarter, but I have not seen anyone independantly achieve that so far. Best posting I have been able to find is around 15 seconds so far.

This is not the 250HP I was originally hoping to get, but at least with the TT that is easy to solve.
There are at least 4 companies selling plug in ECU boards which raise the boost and redline on the 225HP Turbo TT to get it up to 250HP or more. This is a turbo, remember, with a pretty low boost level in stock trim.

In addition the stock torque of this engine is 207 ft/lbs, versus the 125 or so for the RX-8.
The rated 207 ft./lbs is across a range of 2,200 to 5,500rpm.

With the ECU upgrade engine torque rises to around 260 ft/lbs.
Weight of the car is 3208 lbs (almost identical to the RX-8 which is 3247). This is with MILD ECU settings. Some go higher, but it is a lot of boost, so not my cup of tea.



Since you want to cross post your rantings in multiple forums, here's a response I wrote to this same post in one of the other forums:

canzoomer, you are one stubborn and pigheaded person! This has been explained to you multiple times, yet you seem to believe that you are the only one that can count. Instead of insisting that everyone else is wrong, perhaps you might consider that you made an assumption that was incorrect?

YOU assume that the word "lighter" means "lighter with associated, exclusive 12 volt socket to put it in"

EVERYONE else (including the manufacturers, and not just MAZDA), believes that the word "lighter" just means the piece that heats up that you apply to your cigarette to get it to ignite. It does NOT mean a 12 volt outlet.



Everyone?
My last car ( Nissan Sentra SE-R) came with a 12 volt socket in the dash, and a lighter in a socket by the ashtray.
That is what the manufacturer listed on the brochure.
12 volt socket and a lighter. Separate items.
I got both.
AND they threw in one in the centre console that is not even mentioned in the brochure.

My daughter has a Kia RIO RX-V. Same thing.

SO, IN MY DRIVEWAY, I know of two examples that prove you are incorrect.

The TT I am buying has both, I have the brochure at hand, so let's see how they describe it.
Let's see. Darn, it does not even mention a 12V socket OR a lighter, even though they are both there. I know as I drove it yesterday and checked..

Maybe this is standard for Mazda's way of rating this, perhaps..
That would not surprise me one bit.



For example - a Miata has a 12 volt outlet, no lighter. A RX-8 has 1 12 volt outlet and 1 lighter (for sake of discussion, we're ignoring the 2nd 12 volt outlet at the rear of the console box). The difference? JUST the lighter - they both have 1 12 volt outlet.

Do you understand the difference? Please answer specifically - is there any possibility that your assumed definition of "lighter" is incorrect??? Or are all the rest of us ignorant, lying, deceitful, untrustworthy scumbags?

Look, I've tried to be polite, but your pigheadedness about some of these issues and your refusal to consider that you might be incorrect are just incredible. So let's consider your beloved Audi TT, according to you a much better sports car, that's faster and better handling.



Really?
So what?
The brochure for this car lists two 12 volt outlets, and separately lists a lighter and ashtray.
Maybe that IS "Mazda spin" language, used universally on all their models. I have no idea what the brochure for the Miata says about those items, so I can not comment on whther those are as advertised.

I clearly understand the difference, and the last car I bought had it described and provided with both. As advertised.

The car I am now buying does not even advertise either in the brochure, they are "just there"

My daughters car has both, as advertised.

The RX-8 brochure clearly lists two 12 volt outlets, AND a cigarette lighter.

And you call ME pigheaded??
POLITE???? This is the most personally insulting rant I have seen on these forums.
I am talking about the car, and you are so hurt that you try to attack me personally?

I am not the one who took your money and gave you less than you paid for.

So if you are angry, I suggest you take it out on the party who is provably less than honest.

We are talking about cars here.
Not religion, politics, or your family.



Hmm, look up any road tests lately?

Did you read .this Car and Driver comparison test (http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=6846) , where the 225-bhp Audi TT roadster finishes last in a comparison with the BMW Z4, Honda S2000, 350Z Touring, and Boxster? The test where they said Wait, what was that? The 225 hp TT tests at 1 second slower to 60 than an RX-8, and .1g less in cornering capability, and much longer stopping distances? But you say that it's faster and handles better than the RX-8?


Not the one they tested, that is for sure.
As they said in the 350Z section:
"At 3453 pounds, this Z is on the heavy side, outweighed in this group only by an extra 32 Audi pounds"
Of course that article is all the ragtops. In case you did not notice, the convertibles all weight a lot more than the hardtops.
The TT Roadster weighs nearly 3500 lbs. About 300 more than the coupe.
At that it is certainly heavier and therefore slower than the coupe.
Audi rates the Roadster at 6.7 seconds for 0-60, and 14.9 in the quarter.
The coupe is rated at 6.3 seconds, and 14.2 in the quarter.

The stock 350Z, S2000, and so on will certainly make the TT work for a living. I have no doubt about it. The RX-8 is in the same pickle. Power to weight are way better with teh Z and the S2000.
As I have ruled out both with no rear seats, and teh fac that the S2000 is a ragtop, it does not bother me.
We are comparing the RX-8 and the TT 225HP coupe here, and I think they are pretty close.
The RX-8 is a smoother more elegant ride, and to me the TT Coupe feels a lot more like a sports car. And I am getting the TT as advertised.
That means a lot to me, Gordon. A lot of my displeasure is from being lied to and cheated.

With the 2001 TT I get a car that I can afford, and it still makes at least the same numbers as the RX-8. The wild cards it throws in that convinced me are the full time 4 wheel drive, and the fact that Audi have a MUCH better reputation for integrity. Resale holds well too, which is nice.

Would I buy one new at a price that is about $20,000 (Canadian)higher? No way. There are certain logical gains about buying a 2001 model, with 18 months on it. The big bite of depreciation hit somebody else.


How about This Car and Driver comparison test (http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=1938) , where the 180 bhp TT quattro coupe is compared with the Mustang Mach 1, 350Z, and Honda S2000? The test where the TT again finished last, and they said


Right. They did the test with the 180HP engine version.

What if the RX-8 tests were done with the base model in Japan, with the same "197HP" engine as the automatic sold in North America?
Hardly worth discussing is it?
If they had done the tests with the 225HP engine, let alone the new 250HP six, it would be different, but then, as they sid, they were trying to get it into a roughly equal price class.
The TT IS EXPENSIVE. AS I said , i am buying a 2001, to keep it in my price range. I would not even dream of buying this car new, at that price.


Hmm, isn't it funny that other comparison tests that have included the RX-8 against some of these same competitors place the RX-8 first rather than last, yet you insist that the TT is the better sports car?


Not as funny as the fact that you just quoted 2 reviews. Neither of which included the RX-8
One of these tested the TT Roadster (convertible), which is 300 lbs heavier than the TT Coupe, and the other compares the 180HP base engine model of the TT.


I suppose if you don't include acceleration, braking, or cornering, responsiveness, shift quality, weight (the TT is 200 or 300 lbs heavier than the RX-8), then the TT might be the better sports car.


I guess if you had bothered to read the articles and the specs, and see the fact that the TT Coupe is the same weight as the RX-8, and that you were looking at the Roadster, which IS 300 lbs heavier, and if you had noticed that the power specs you are quoting are for the 180HP base engine this would be pretty true.
Of course you didn't.
So you are just spouting crap.



You also probably didn't read
this Car and Driver long term test (http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=39&article_id=3185) , where they said Hmph, how about that - a car that made more power and got faster when it had some significant break-in miles on it (40K miles, in the TT's case). Of course, there's NO reason to suspect that the RX-8 engine might also loosen up and develop more power, is there, even though compaddict's dyno tests at 2000 and 4000 miles already showed 9 extra hp from the 2000 extra miles. Only TT's can get more power and get faster once they've got a bunch of miles on them, right?


You could be quite correct.
That is why when I mentioned 186HP I was taking the most recent and the highest dyno benchmark figure I have yet to read.
If I had gone with the lowest (165HP) or the average it would look a bit more grim.
As my RX-8 is breaking in I can definitely feel more power and certainly more torque, mainly in the lower rpm range.
I can also feel that horrible drop off at around 6500rpm, and I can only hope for you that this will change.
Of course the guys in Japan who have dyno'ed their cars and are getting pretty close to the "right numbers" must have had their cars delivered to them with 40,000km on them too, I guess..
But somehow I doubt it.
As I have said in other postings, IF Mazda were to give us the Euro3 ECU map, or something equivalent, that in Canada and most of the US outside of California would be quite emissions legal, we would probably get around 25HP more than we have now.
And the mileage would probably be a lot better too.
But despite our please they are totally ignoring us on this perfectly sensible request.
If I were to wait a year or two I could probably get an aftermarket ECU as well.
In either case, it is a long time and a lot of hope, and I am tired of waiting. I want a car I can drive and enjoy now.
One that works as advertised.



But hey, keep hanging around here, keep reading the dyno tests as the cars get broken in and the power increases. When the stock RX-8s with 8K or 10K miles are making 210 rwhp (ie around 238 flywheel hp), will you post an apology for calling Mazda liars about the rated power? We know how big you are on apologies, after all...


I kind of doubt it, as by then I will not be likely to be reading this posting.
But hey, when the time comes feel free to drop me an email and I will check in to see it myself.

How about this Gordo:
Show me that within 6 months at least two dynos of the stock RX-8 hit 203HP at the wheels (let's say by March 15th) and I will owe you $50. I am hedging my bet by saying that if they finally do release an ECU remap all bets are off.
Then I would be anoyed to have returned my RX-8, but that is the chance I take, isn't it?
My email address is maurice@harddata.com
I am putting my money where my mouth is.
Let's see what happens?
Frankly, if you are right, I will be pretty happy, because I would rather see you and all the owners get what they paid for than know that you got screwed.

[Edit] - one final wrap-up, with a quote from EVO magazine ( www.evo.co.uk ) where they compared the RX-8 against the Golf R32, the winner of their previous hot hatch test (which has the more powerful 240 hp VR6 and AWD drivetrain - basically, the best version of the Golf platform, TT notwithstanding). Here's what they had to say:Hmm, RX-8 wins again!


Again, Ijust went to check your reference.
The current RX-8 article they have there:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/roadtest/evo_roadtest_story.php?id=39166
Some quotes:
"Mazda claims 0-62mph in 6.4sec for the RX-8 which, if confirmed, will more than match "
And:
"In the end it's a close call...But the RX-8 is sexier. Better looking. Quieter, smoother and more comfortable. Almost as fast"
" No, it doesn't have the Golf's macho bark. Nor its grip and instantly accessible grunt."

So, unless I am reading the wrong article, they liked the RX-8 as being smooth and sexy, but the 4 SEATER GOLF SEDAN BEAT IT IN MOST PERFORMANCE RESPECTS.

And, how many times do I have to point this out?
This test was done in Italy, with the EURO3 ECU mapped RX-8.
It actually HAS something resembling the power output we are SUPPOSED to be getting.
But with our Califiornia emissions legal RX-8's we are NOT getting that power, so your point is mooted further.

It was a pleasure having this little talk Gordon.
Your article quotes made it so easy to show you how you did NOT bother to check the facts before you spout off.

You are the classicv RX-8 dreamer. So desperate to find something to support your shattered dreams that you completely forget to read the fine print.

I too made that mistake. ONCE.
I was so very wrong when I read the brochure, and paid money for a car based on Mazda's promises.

No more.



Regards,
Gordon

Good luck sir!

Originally posted by Squidward
dude, I feel for you.. It really does suck for the RX-8 to be a huge disappointment for you.

BTW, if conditions are that harsh where you live, buying a sportscar might not have been the wisest choice.

But that's besides the point..

Best of luck to you on your RX-8 replacement.

Thanks Squidly.
You are right, it is not that easy to get a suitable sports car up here.
Climate is a lot more harsh, gas is a lot more expensive, and there is a lot less dealer competition.

This whole RX-8 experience really DID suck for me.

I have had a 2 year run of shitty car luck, so I admit to a bit of a streak of twisted and bitter.

I had a Honda Civic SiR which was a great car. Not a ricer. Honda built and sold the Type R Civics up here in Canada for two years when they did not offer them in the USA. Cheap by sports car standards, went like sitnk, and handled great. Not as classy as the RX-8, but it made me happy at the time.
Got stolen out of my driveway in October of 2001.

Got my money from the insurance company, and at that time the choices were not great.
Got a Nissan Spec V. Pretty badly over hyped car.
Managed to get power up to the levels that Nissan claimed, and a bit more, with exhaust and intake mods. Still, with front wheel drive, and a not very stiff chassis, it suffered badly from wheel hop and twist. Nissan also had some issues with market hype power levels and some stupid runs of trying to deny the obvious flaws.
To their credit they did step up to the plate and finally fixed most of it with recalls this summer. You guessed it, 2 months after I sold mine!

It made about the power of my RX-8
I wanted somethng a bit better and more of a "real" sports car, so I laid some money down last winter to order a 350Z Track Pack. Not so practical with the lack of seats and trunk, and also a really lousy choice for winter. Still, it was the cheapest actual semi-powerful sports car I could buy new. Miatas are gutless, and everything else was mega dollars, so that was my choice.

Dealer was way too optimistic about delivery dates, and after he was two months late I ran out of patience and got the RX-8.

I truly hope that the TT experience will be happier.
In buying it I am really influenced by the tried and true aspect of it, and the fact that with 4 wheel drive Quattro it is a pretty darned practical car for my location.

Anyway, I truly hope that Mazda shoots the damned lawyers and remember that they pay engineers to solve problems, and get you guys your 50HP back again. With that the 8 would be a very sweet car. If they do I might just reconsider buying one again.

Luck!

Mazda didn't lie about the HP numbers, they just over extimated it.....comparing to the RX-7 engine, it's a hell of a engine if you ask me, NA produces about the same HP number as a twin turbo RX-7 engine....isn't that is a good sign?

I think you can only blame(partially) yourslef for making a bad decision on the purchases...if mazda didn't over estiamted teh HP numbers, you are stuck with it...am I right? since they offer the buy back, the luck is on your side I guess....

<carzoomer> or whatever your name is:
Please stop harping on about the bloody lighter please :mad:

i respect everbody is entitled to an opinion but this lighter situation is wasting bandwidth. It's a lighter not a socket.

If your that bothered why didn't you get one of those devices that doubles up the output anyway. Duh.:D

I own a TTC 225 and think it may be one of the better sports car one can have in cold conditions. It is reliable in the cold, got a good and fast heater and importantly 4WD as well as being fast with good torque and is very well put together, you will not be disappointed.

The 8 has other advantages (looks, 4 seats, price) which make it an alternative for me but otherwise I would be holding on to the TT. In the UK we are expecting delivery to start in November at best and most of us have ordered blind without seeing or driving the car but with only £100 of a £1000 deposit to lose I can walk away if its not up to scratch.

We have had delivery delays in UK (originally to come in July) and lost orders because of that but that is everyones choice. I'm sure others will be disapointed with the rotary too, either power, lack of torque or noise and will walk away.

So let's not slag those of decide the car is not for them. This is a honest open forum and should allow for opinions, positive or otherwise.

rael

Umm.... Is the GT RX8 200LBS heavier than the GS base model?

I believe my car is 3048 pounds ...... not 3200... just asking.

You have one fast TT man. I would have thought the only TT capable of mixing it with the 8 would be the V6 version. I'm still planning to keep my 8.

Originally posted by Lucozade
<carzoomer> or whatever your name is:
Please stop harping on about the bloody lighter please :mad:

i respect everbody is entitled to an opinion but this lighter situation is wasting bandwidth. It's a lighter not a socket.

If your that bothered why didn't you get one of those devices that doubles up the output anyway. Duh.:D

To me the 12 volt socket has become a symbol of Mazdas approach to marketing on this car.

They exaggerate every feature just a bit past the point of credibility.

I discovered another example this morning:

The letter we received for replying to the buy back or "free service" has a form we have to fill in and send back.

They included a return envelope.

The envelope is too small to fit the paper they printed the letter
on.

It's the wrong size envelope!!!

This is just TOO RICH!!

Originally posted by OmegaBob
Although I do see your point about roasted feet in the summer time (how about just putting the A/C on the floor setting when your feet get toasty?)

My feet (as well as the passengers' feet) get very warm as well and I was hoping that the face & feet setting on the blower would be the cure. Well, my feet are cooled but virtually NO cold air blows through the face vents using this setting. Upper body roasts so this was no cure. I think the only thing that will cure the toasty feet is Autumn. There's a huge difference in the efficiency of the a/c with just a 15 degree drop in ambient temps.

Originally posted by RX-Late
You have one fast TT man. I would have thought the only TT capable of mixing it with the 8 would be the V6 version. I'm still planning to keep my 8.
Not really. Teh 225HP version is pretty well a close match for the 8, in pperformance and features.

I would not have bought one new, because at about $20,000 less expensive the RX-8 is a much better deal.

I was simply lucky enough to find a used one in really nice shape, for exactly the amount of money I will be getting back for my RX-8

One of the biggest problems i faced in deciding to return my 8 is what i would get instead. Everything else I liked was a bunch more money. 350Z, Q35C, WRX-STi, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, and so on..
I happened to stop by this Audi dealer as it was on my way, and I thought to look at the Golf Special Anniversary Edition. I doubted I would like it, as it is "just" a Golf. The salesman said those were all sold out, but asked me if I wanted to look at a TT. I told hime I could not afford a new Audi, and he said "Why don't you look at this one". They were asking $46K plus fees and taxes to bring it to $50,000. I also wanted to byy a warranty extension to top it up to 4 years, but that would bring the total to around $52K.

I told them I will have $45K to spend, so take it or leave it.
As winter is coming, I guess they wanted to move it.
They took it.

Funny how that works sometimes.

Originally posted by TomsterRX8
Well, my feet are cooled but virtually NO cold air blows through the face vents using this setting.At least part of the problem is the rear floor vents. If you don't have folks in the back seats that often, you might try plugging those vents under the front seats with a rag or two, which will increase the flow available elsewhere.

Canzoomer: I live well south of you, but I used to use a heated dipstick in a diesel in Missouri when overnight temps fell below 20F. This was a Mazda diesel in a Ford Escort. It was basically necessary to keep the engine warm overnight to start it if the fuel didn't gel. I can relate to how the heater ability and block heater are separate issues.

Is the WRX offered in your area? If so, what are your thoughts + or - about that car compared to the TT option? just curious. I have a Subaru XT6 that I got for winter driving-fulltime AWD version.

I too am disappointed by some aspects of the 8 - acceleration and gas mileage largely. I don't have any other problems that I know that others are commenting on - heater works right, AC works as it should, doesn't when it shouldn't, I can get over 21 MPG just not very regularly, lowest tank MPG was under extreme low gear, high RPM driving.

and to the response that says that Mazda "overstated" the HP - I am not sure which dictionary or logic you use, but since every magazine and brochure about the RX-8 has said 247HP and US EPA requirements aren't a gov't secret, it sounds like a "lie" even if you don't want to either admit it or call it that. I'd like to have the HP and the mileage I expected before the car finally arrived. It is disappointing that it's not.

I'm trying to keep an open mind to all opinions negative and positive. I'm leaning towards the buyback for several reasons, one is that I can rebuy under MSRP if not immediately, very soon, and start over with a new car. IF they figure out the ECU / mileage issue(s).

canzoomer, if you are giving the car back, why are you still on the forum?
You dont need to justify your decision to give the car back - thats your decision.
Every person judges a car using their own criteria, uses the car for different things, and compares to different cars.
I have my test this friday, and will be comparing to my 225 TT.
Unless it is exceptionally slower than the TT (which the figures do not suggest) I will be getting it. I realise that it will require a different driving style. But variety is the spice of life.

Just my 2 penny/cent worth.

Originally posted by canzoomer


To me the 12 volt socket has become a symbol of Mazdas approach to marketing on this car.

They exaggerate every feature just a bit past the point of credibility.

I discovered another example this morning:

The letter we received for replying to the buy back or "free service" has a form we have to fill in and send back.

They included a return envelope.

The envelope is too small to fit the paper they printed the letter
on.

It's the wrong size envelope!!!

This is just TOO RICH!!


LOL this is funny because I noticed the day I got the letter, I put it in the reply envelope for safe keeping, I had to fold it not only length wise but width wise. And they used thick paper, what a mess, it looks like oragamy ! :D

Originally posted by canzoomer
I discovered another example this morning:

The letter we received for replying to the buy back or "free service" has a form we have to fill in and send back.

They included a return envelope.

The envelope is too small to fit the paper they printed the letter
on.

It's the wrong size envelope!!!

This is just TOO RICH!!

You're having a breakdown and/or freaking out... time to seek counseling!:p

Canzoomer: thx for the explanation of the engine block heater.
( btw - I've learned much on these forums)

I have suggestion for you, how about getting a Jeep/SUV for the winter and keep the 8 for the spring & summer? Since I'm not sure how long your winters/cold season lasts, maybe (as suggested by another forum member), you should just forget about getting a sports-type car if the weather is that bad for a long time.

Thx again for the info!

Originally posted by canzoomer

I truly hope that the TT experience will be happier.
In buying it I am really influenced by the tried and true aspect of it, and the fact that with 4 wheel drive Quattro it is a pretty darned practical car for my location.
Luck!

I have no doubt that you will be very happy with the TT. I bought mine back in '00 and it has been the best three years I've ever had. I decided not to buy it out when my lease ended (which was my original plan) because a week before my lease ended I saw an RX-8 on the road and simply fell in love. It turned out to be a perfect time too, because 5 days later, I was out of my TT and into my new 8GT.

But I do miss my Audi alot. The Bose audio was system was absolutely superb, while my Bose upgrade in my 8 is only so-so (little bass, no midrange). Seats feel better too. Shifting was tight AND smooth.. Very easy.. Shifting on the 8 is pretty notchy in the lower gears. And the turbo.. The "boost" is always a welcome pleasure.

I don't know if it's possible, but I hope you're getting my car, because I babied that thing like it was my own (I did intend to keep it). It was in immaculate condition when I returned her (you wouldn't be able to tell if she was new or used by looking at her inside and out, with exception to the minor hairline scratches on the clear acrylic shift knob emblem--easily replaced).

While the 8 is a current major head turner, so was the TT at the time when I first bought it. There are relatively very few on the roads even today. The one thing that sets it apart from the 8 is the fit and finish, not to say the 8's is bad, it is okay.. but the TT's has absolutely solid interior/exterior build and undisputed elegance.. The kind of solid build quality you can only get from a high end luxury car. It's thousands more than the 8 and the reasons are very clear to me now. You get what you pay for with Audi cars. I saw a black 04 A4 Cabriolet the other day in my garage at work, and I have to say, there is absolutely NO comparison in quality between Mazda and Audi.

(I can also attest to how solid the body is too.. I was rear ended by a light truck at around 15mpg and fortunately my car was COMPLETELY undamaged.. not even a scratch. The light toyota truck's chrome metal bumper crushed in about 4 inches.. The other driver and myself just stood their perplexed. I had the car checked out by my dealership and got a thumbs up, and decided to let the guy off..)

Plus I don't get the same "status" feeling when I drive my 8.. I am still excited about it and it does look GREAT, but it doesn't exude that sense of "luxury" that the Audi TT gives. And on my butt dyno, the TT feels more like a sportscar, honestly. Butt dynos are the ultimate measure of driving fun owners... not what's on paper. I have never felt wheelspin, or having it's tail kick out or bounce around like the 8 does when I go around tight turns. It scares me a little.. But I hope in time I will master the RWD and have some REAL fun too. Too bad the 8 doesn't have AWD. Nothing better than having a AWD on wet days.

The biggest reason why I bought my 8 was the "cool" factor. Followed by (supposedly) great engine specs. And much better value than a luxury car. She's a keeper which is why I actually bought her this time with a 7/100 extended warranty. All for thousands less than my previous TT. I feel I'm getting my money's worth, especially now with the free service agreement, however I am still very disappointed with the performance and mileage.

Everytime I think about those two things, I sometimes regret my purchase and wish I had my TT back.. But then everytime I look at my RX-8 and hear the engine rev, those feelings somehow just "poof", disappear... :)

poof ;)

As a TT owner I can tell you that you WON'T be disappointed. The TT is a great car. I can't tell you how many people compliment me on it. As far as the performance... in stock form it is quick, but by no means will you be smoking Corvettes. The plus side is that the 1.8t engine is one of the easiest to mod and get horsepower from. I have a few things done to mine (you can see my sig below) and I will leave an RX-8 sitting on the line wondering what happened. I had an RX-8 on order but bought the TT because I simply got tired of waiting. I started to feel like my decision was a mistake at first, but now that I have heard about some of the stuff going on from reading the posts on this board, I am starting to think it was a wise decision to forgo the RX-8. At the same time, I have a feeling that Mazda will rectify the issues of their flagship car. You all need to remember, all corporations work in "corporate time". What you think should take a week, takes a few months in corporate time. Anyway, I love the TT as it is the fastest and most fun car I have owned to date. I think you will be happy with it too.


P.S. - To the guy that said TT's are dogs off the line, I can tell you that with 4 wheel drive and a turbo, I can spank just about ANY car off the line. It's good when you can rev into the turbo range and drop the clutch and not hear so much as a squeak from the tires. :)

Originally posted by canzoomer


To me the 12 volt socket has become a symbol of Mazdas approach to marketing on this car.

They exaggerate every feature just a bit past the point of credibility.

I discovered another example this morning:

The letter we received for replying to the buy back or "free service" has a form we have to fill in and send back.

They included a return envelope.

The envelope is too small to fit the paper they printed the letter
on.

It's the wrong size envelope!!!

This is just TOO RICH!! CanZoomer - I can sympathize with your need for a car that works well in the cold climates up north. I can understand the feeling of being deceived (intentionally or accidentally) because the newly rated horsepower of the RX-8 is still probably significantly below 238 unless everyone here is missing something - although note that Compaddicts car increased by 9hp (to 190rwhp) between 2000 miles and 4000 miles on the same dyno. These are both valid reasons for returning the car, as is the worse than expected fuel economy for some. I personally think the car is making about 228hp (same as cars tested in Italy with Euro Stage 4 - *not* Stage 3 as you thought), but it is fast enough for me and much faster than any VW/Audi with the 1.8t engine (or even 2.8 VR6 or 3.0 V6 engine) that I have driven. The ONLY VW/Audi vehicle I have driven that I thought was about as fast as my RX-8 is the 2.7t Audi A6, and that was a pig around corners.

What makes me smile (not quite laugh out loud) is the thought that you think the 225hp TT is much faster than the RX-8 - I agree it is noiser but faster? :). How about your own recent tests with DSC/Traction totally off (which is how all magazines test cars BTW)? But that's OK, I've owned Audi's before and think they are great cars, and you should get what you like.

What did make me laugh is your lighter/12volt outlet issue. In the 13 cars I've owned every car has a 12volt outlet in the console/dash that is also a lighter (not two separate things). Some cars also have a second 12volt outlet for cellphones/radar in the console/dash (e.g. G35) and describe them as such. Some cars/suvs have additional 12volt outlets in the back/trunk as well. Why the hell this deserves a rant from you is odd. I think you Sentra's documentation was screwed up and the 'extra' 12volt outlet was accidentally missed. This is not the norm for any other car - get over it. As for the wrong sized envelope issue - I am literally ROFL.

Get you Audi before Mazda drives you insane. Can you imagine if they phoned you up to see how you liked the car and mispronounced your name or something...

Originally posted by Wing


LOL this is funny because I noticed the day I got the letter, I put it in the reply envelope for safe keeping, I had to fold it not only length wise but width wise....


Yea I also noticed that the letter didn't fit the envelope the first day I received it. However, I was able to figure out that I could fold the letter to make it fit into given envelope - I don't think that canzoomer is very bright.

Best thing for MazCan is that he has decide to return his car - but that assumes that he has figured out how to return his letter. :D

LOL well you can't blame him.. these little things just add up and some people can get kind of wiggy with it

Originally posted by rx8daniel
Canzoomer: I live well south of you, but I used to use a heated dipstick in a diesel in Missouri when overnight temps fell below 20F. This was a Mazda diesel in a Ford Escort. It was basically necessary to keep the engine warm overnight to start it if the fuel didn't gel. I can relate to how the heater ability and block heater are separate issues.

Is the WRX offered in your area? If so, what are your thoughts + or - about that car compared to the TT option? just curious. I have a Subaru XT6 that I got for winter driving-fulltime AWD version.

I too am disappointed by some aspects of the 8 - acceleration and gas mileage largely. I don't have any other problems that I know that others are commenting on - heater works right, AC works as it should, doesn't when it shouldn't, I can get over 21 MPG just not very regularly, lowest tank MPG was under extreme low gear, high RPM driving.

and to the response that says that Mazda "overstated" the HP - I am not sure which dictionary or logic you use, but since every magazine and brochure about the RX-8 has said 247HP and US EPA requirements aren't a gov't secret, it sounds like a "lie" even if you don't want to either admit it or call it that. I'd like to have the HP and the mileage I expected before the car finally arrived. It is disappointing that it's not.

I'm trying to keep an open mind to all opinions negative and positive. I'm leaning towards the buyback for several reasons, one is that I can rebuy under MSRP if not immediately, very soon, and start over with a new car. IF they figure out the ECU / mileage issue(s).


I'll field the TT vs. WRX comparison since I've driven both cars and own one of them :)


The TT probably does everything well the WRX doesn't and vise versa. The TT has the looks, the neat interior features, and the german engineering. The WRX has the performance and the handling. On the street you won't notice these things as much unless you line up with a WRX or try to keep up with one at a track. The clutch on the TT is mushy and has a very high release point and really takes away from the sportscar feel, but it is smoother and less notchy than the WRX.

The WRX will be volumes cheaper to fix, the scheduled maintenance on Audis is not cheap and most people that buy new trade them in before the 60k maintenance which runs in the thousands. The WRX is also much cheaper when new and there is always a worry of buying a turbo car when it's used. The tuning market for the 1.8T engines is not quite that of the WRX but both are respectable. As far as winter driving it's most likely a push, however the Subaru paint isn't the greatest and will most likely result in more chips from the road salt.

Ike

Originally posted by rx8daniel
C
Is the WRX offered in your area? If so, what are your thoughts + or - about that car compared to the TT option? just curious. I have a Subaru XT6 that I got for winter driving-fulltime AWD version.


I looked at the WRX.
Up here it is $36,500 Canadian while the RX-8 GT is $40,000
For that difference the WRX simply does not have enough to make it worth my while. Performance IS OK, about the same as the RX-8. Handling and the 4 wheel drive are definitely a bonus in my climate.
But, ultimately the features and trim are just too "cheap" to justify the price.
I also looked at the STi. The trim and finish are no better, but it goes like a bat out of hell!
I would LOVE to buy an STi.
Unfortunately all the dealers up here are charging $8,000 above sticker, making it a $52,000 car. Out of my range, and too much money for a pretty bare car. And the backlog is about a year..
The Mitsubishi EVO also bears consideration, but they do not sell them in Canada. Apaprently our crash standards differ from the US and the front bumper does not pass the test.
Personally I think the EVO is pretty ugly, but that is just my taste.



and to the response that says that Mazda "overstated" the HP - I am not sure which dictionary or logic you use, but since every magazine and brochure about the RX-8 has said 247HP and US EPA requirements aren't a gov't secret, it sounds like a "lie" even if you don't want to either admit it or call it that. I'd like to have the HP and the mileage I expected before the car finally arrived. It is disappointing that it's not.

When I went to my local dealer in the end of May he handed me
a RX-8 brochure. It clearly states :
"Horsepower SAE net hp: 250 @ 8500rpm
Torque, SAE net lb. ft.: 159 @ 5,500 rpm"
When I Paid for the car that was the only information i had been given.
Heck, the dealer still has a telephone hold ad blurb saying, "the 2004 RX-8 shipping this spring, with 250 horspower and.."
He has not even bothered to change it, at least as of Friday last week.
If you want to hear it I can email you the telephone number off list.

The 247 was the FIRST change. The 238 is the second, and the actual is still clearly lower than that.
How much is the subject of considerable debate, but whether it is 5 or 25 less, it is still a case of "3 strikes and you are out" in my books.

I'm trying to keep an open mind to all opinions negative and positive. I'm leaning towards the buyback for several reasons, one is that I can rebuy under MSRP if not immediately, very soon, and start over with a new car. IF they figure out the ECU / mileage issue(s).

I suspect and hope they finally do. That is the main reason I am on a bit of a "mission from God" about this whole thing.
If we let them brush it under the carpet they will never deal with it.
If enough heat is on them they will be much more likely to do what is needed.

However, as I already detailed, I am not willing to wait any longer.

Originally posted by IkeWRX

The WRX will be volumes cheaper to fix, the scheduled maintenance on Audis is not cheap and most people that buy new trade them in before the 60k maintenance which runs in the thousands. The WRX is also much cheaper when new and there is always a worry of buying a turbo car when it's used. The tuning market for the 1.8T engines is not quite that of the WRX but both are respectable. As far as winter driving it's most likely a push, however the Subaru paint isn't the greatest and will most likely result in more chips from the road salt.

Ike

At least in Canada the Audi TT comes with a 4 year warranty, which includes parts and labour for ALL items except tires.
Oil, filters, wiper blades, disk pads, battery, all labour, all consumables but gasoline.
The extensions you can buy are available with or witout this level, at difffering costs. To add 2 years to make it 6 year, 160,000km will be costing me $1800 Canadian.

The aftermarket for the TT is healthy, with at least 4 companies selling the ECU drop-in board for around $495 US. They claim 40HP and 50lb, ft. of torque from the chip. redline cutoff climbs from 6K to 7100rpm.
Dyno results I have seen are not that good, but a chipped TT 225 puts out 230+HP at the wheels easily. Some are higher, but they usually have done exhaust cat-backs as well.

Still, $1,500 buys me a LOT more performance, and it is a 5 minute job to switch back, with no signs showing..
Tempting.

You'll love your TT; as a past owner, I kind of miss my TT:( sorry, but my Rx-8 lack the punch I was use to... and at 13mpg it to little power for to must fuel.

Great car for our canadian winters! Once chipped, you will have a brand new car; handling is "go kart style" and accelaration with a lot of torque will put a big smile on your face! Mine was chipped and when I change back to the original ECU (just before returning my lease) I couldn't believe the difference in power :D

I still have a few days to decide whatever I keep my 8 or not..

Have fun

COME ONE, are really believing dyno results at 180whp?.....ask a mechanic in the know about dyno results, and he will tell you how widely they vary...............I have also seen 194whp results posted here from a car with a few 1000 miles on it..........there is no cover-up here about 25 missing hp.......the car runs great.....and 0-60 in 6secs.....for sure!......been in an 8 that runs great, and it is a different type of acceleration.........nice and smooth............there is plenty of power for this car, but no question if you want pure torque, buy a 350Z..........but I guess we'll keep focusing on this theory of missing hp and how we have been mislead.......I don't think so.........lets chat when you have about 5-7K on the car, and the engine is broken in........even the European mags test the cars at 5.9-6secs, and rate it over there at 228hp.............

The thing that really irritates me, aside from that awful envelope catastrophe, is that there is no little flat piece of metal that springs up to plug the gas fill hole. My other cars have it. My 8 just has a hole where the gas nozzle goes. What is wrong with Mazda? Can't they get anything right? I want more on my debit card!

Originally posted by LesPaul
The thing that really irritates me, aside from that awful envelope catastrophe, is that there is no little flat piece of metal that springs up to plug the gas fill hole. My other cars have it. My 8 just has a hole where the gas nozzle goes. What is wrong with Mazda? Can't they get anything right? I want more on my debit card!

Really? Mine does!

Ah, oh. I'll have to stick my finger in there.

Originally posted by LesPaul
Ah, oh. I'll have to stick my finger in there.

Sorry, was joking. Mine's just a hole as well. It's just that whenever I write about any problem I have with this car I always get responses on how perfect there's is. If I complained that I only got 30 mpg I'd get a slew of responses on how they get 37 mpg. I just thought I'd say mine has the little metal thingie first, as I'm sure SOMEONE out there is gonna say there's really does have it.

canzoomer,

I always regarded you as a whiner and tend to exaggerate on the RX-8's issues. But I also think that we need people like you on the board to balance things out a little. Every car board tends to have some bias towards its car. It's actually refreshing to have an actual owner complaining about his own car, although some of them are bordering on the ridiculous spectrum. In any case, you have my respect for calmly and methodically countering another member's points and ripping him a new asshole :D

canzoomer -
Glad to hear the RX-8 is not for you, as it is certainly not designed to satisfy everybody.

Please feel free to let us know what vehicle ends up satisfying your needs.

canzoomer:

Good luck with your TT. I mean it, a nice car and perfectly suited to the harsh canadian winters.

From now on, please post only on audi sites.

You are right, you have become a very bitter man from your bad experience. This is not meant as a criticism, but when you complain about an envelope, it is time for therapy.

Thankfully, My experience has been far different.
Again, goodbye, goodluck



ikewrx.

Why are you here? Do us all a favor, go post on the subaru sites. You do not own the car, you have never contributed anything of value on this site. You are irrelevant. Please just go away.

squidward

See above.

Wow, way to represent your car community. I like cars, that's why I'm here. I'm sure all 7 of your posts have had great value to the site and the RX-8 community, well except number 7 of course... Exactly what did I do to warrant that kind of response?

I dare someone to find me one site that doesn't have active members that own cars other than the one the site is dedicated to. Get used to it guys, I don't see why people have to be jerks to someone just because they don't have the same kind of car you do.

Ike

every forum has its share of jerks..

we seemed to have found ours.

Damn. I don't have my 8 yet. I just have a p.o.s. '00 Saturn 4dr. I guess that means I have to leave the forum also. Ike, Squid.....Lemme pack my things and we can all run away so as to not upset people that might not share the exact same views.

Relax folks. The whole point of a board is to express ideas, thoughts, opinions, etc. (Yes, I just said it. Got smacked in a modding thread for stating the same thing, but I stand by it damnit).

Can't we all just get along? :D

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion. My problem is the total lack of anything constructive from certain posters. I am here to find and exchange useful info, which is very difficult with the crap that gets posted in just about any meaningful thread.

Frankly, I fail to see why someone who does not own the car, or is not buying one, feels the need to post meaningless irrelevent, and inaccurate comments.

Personaly, I welcome diffrent opinions, and tend to have a open mind. For example, I drove a TT and a g35 before I settled on the RX8. The G is a great car, in many ways a better car then the mazda, but for me the RX8 was a better fit., and a better value. Just because I settled on the mazda, does not mean I would gp to a infinity site and post wild cliams that , for example, a cooper would kick their cars rearends on a drag strip. It simply is not possible, and would not be constructive. If I did that, I would indeed be a "jerk".

As for the TT, nice looking, built nice, no balls. Could not justify the price for its beetle mechanicals. Now, since I drove the car, I know that any comparison to the mazda is pure crap, performance wise, However, If I lived canada, I would have to say the quattro verson is a safer, thus better, choice. Hence my post.

By the way, on the topic of tolerance, and how many times I post, my first post was in response to questions about the legal aspects of the mazda release. I was attacked for giving my opinion. I know that some folks found it helpful, so i did not feel the need to attack the guy. On the other hand, why post if I just get insulted?

The people listed above, tend to post only negative things, just to stir things up. canzoomer had valid compliants, but he clearly was losing it, and I am glad he has found a solution,
HOWEVER
The truth is that I will not miss his posts, which would crop up in the middle of informative threads, and always lead everyone off topic.

In the end, there are valid, perhaps differing opinions, and then there is mud flinging. I would like to see more of the former.

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion. My problem is the total lack of anything constructive from certain posters. I am here to find and exchange useful info, which is very difficult with the crap that gets posted in just about any meaningful thread.

You indicated everyone is entitled to their opinion. Yet, you call those opinions "CRAP THAT GETS POSTED" because YOU believe they l"LACK ANYTHING CONSTRUCTIVE" in YOUR OPINION.


Frankly, I fail to see why someone who does not own the car, or is not buying one, feels the need to post meaningless irrelevent, and inaccurate comments.

May I ask who decided these are "MEANINGLESS & IRRELEVENT"? Furthermore, since when this site is only for those who own the car or will buy one?

Personaly, I welcome diffrent opinions, and tend to have a open mind. For example, I drove a TT and a g35 before I settled on the RX8. The G is a great car, in many ways a better car then the mazda, but for me the RX8 was a better fit., and a better value. Just because I settled on the mazda, does not mean I would gp to a infinity site and post wild cliams that , for example, a cooper would kick their cars rearends on a drag strip. It simply is not possible, and would not be constructive. If I did that, I would indeed be a "jerk".

May I ask what you meant by "TEND TO HAVE A OPEN MIND"? Or is this another "Meaningless Crap" on your rule?

ikewrx.

Why are you here? Do us all a favor, go post on the subaru sites. You do not own the car, you have never contributed anything of value on this site. You are irrelevant. Please just go away.


I might be missing something. Would you explain to me in what way this sounds constructive & meaningful? How did you define that ikewrx does not contribute to anything (with his hundreds of posts) while you've contributed so much with your few posts? In addition, what gives you the authority (or right) to tell him(her) to go away? Are you the site owner or something like it? In case you get mad at me and define that my message is not constructive, meaningless crap, please understand these are just questions that made me wonder. I don't think I will be burned for asking some questions? Thank you.

Originally posted by klegg

In the end, there are valid, perhaps differing opinions, and then there is mud flinging. I would like to see more of the former.

LOL is this guy for real??? The only one flinging mud is you, dude..

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but some opinions are more valid than others. The opinions based upon facts and a clear thought process are of more value that the opinions based on misunderstanding, hidden agendas, love of stirring things up, and other non-facts.

I think we see here a small, representative sample of the larger general population. There are people that for whatever reason (lack of education?) don't know the difference between well reasoned, fact-based arguments and mindless, unproductive, inflamatory flames. We see this in discussions about the war, the economy and other issues. Generally, I see that we the people are slipping away from a meaningful, constructive discourse into more hostile, unproductive childish rantings.

It is a pleasure to read other people's views on things, even those with which I disagree, if they are presented in a reasonable way and are based on facts and logic.

LOL! Canzoomer never responded to my posts point by point - he ignored many of the points I made, and distracted the message. (As for most insulting posts - I seem to recall a post from a certain dissatisfied RX-8 buyer where he called anyone who didn't agree with his demands to swamp Mazda Canada with calls about his issues a bunch of lying, deceitful, scumbags... )

I challenged canzoomer to find any roadtest of any model of TT that showed better performance numbers than any road test of an RX-8. I'm well aware that there are 2 engines offered in the TT, and that the Convertible is heavier than the coupe (but the coupe is still more than 200 lbs heavier than an RX-8). That's why I didn't focus on the acceleration numbers of the 180 hp coupe - but please note that the braking and cornering numbers of that coupe are still worse than the RX-8, and those numbers aren't affected by the engine power. I showed 2 examples of comparison tests where the TT finished worst of the sports cars listed - I certainly didn't imply that those were the only tests - again, can anyone find any test where a 225hp TT coupe is faster? As for relevance to the RX-8, the C+D TT coupe was compared to the Mustang Mach 1 and 350Z, whereas C+D also compared the faster and better handling Mustang Cobra and the G35C to the RX-8, which beat them both. It's fair to infer that RX-8>Mustang Cobra>Mustang Mach 1>Audi TT.

Don't get me wrong, the TT is a fine car, but in a separate thread canzoomer stated that the TT was a better sports car than the RX-8. By what measure? Subjectively and objectively, you can't find any road tests that would support that claim (no matter the engine version).

canzoomer also likes to point to the better Audi warranty, yet he has also posted multiple times about how easy it is to chip the TT's 1.8 turbo engine for impressive HP gains. Perhaps he hasn't done quite enough research, as he seems to have missed the fact that Audi is very aggressive in denying warranty claims when the engines have been chipped. Not much point in chipping the car when you've bought the extended warranty, and not much point in buying the extended warranty if you intend to chip it.

I like the TT for what it is, but I wouldn't suggest it's a better sports car. I hope canzoomer is happy with it.

Regards,
Gordon

Can I just say that .......

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
canzoomer also likes to point to the better Audi warranty, yet he has also posted multiple times about how easy it is to chip the TT's 1.8 turbo engine for impressive HP gains. Perhaps he hasn't done quite enough research, as he seems to have missed the fact that Audi is very aggressive in denying warranty claims when the engines have been chipped. Not much point in chipping the car when you've bought the extended warranty, and not much point in buying the extended warranty if you intend to chip it.


Well, I have had my TT chipped for about 6 months now and have had the car in for service twice since then. Once for the 20k service and once for a replacement underbody spoiler. They know I have the car chipped and have no problem with it. In fact, they install the chips there in their race department...

I would not go so far as to call the TT a better sports car, but I would not call the RX-8 better either. They are both great cars for their own reasons. The TT has torque on-tap even if you have some turbo lag, and the RX-8 has rotary power.

Why is everyone so obsessed over this supposed power issue? Are you drag racing Civics at every stop light? I hope not. Besides, to get any real power from most cars you have to modify them from stock anyway.

Let's say you guys did get the 250hp that was promised. What is gonna happen when you try to race the guy in the RX-8 next to you that had added an intake, exhaust and a turbo/supercharger? You will get your ass handed to you.

My is TT in stock form is probably not as fast as the RX-8.... But it is now... :)

Thank you lespaul, that is exactly my point, stated calmly and elequently

Originally posted by LesPaul

.....It is a pleasure to read other people's views on things, even those with which I disagree, if they are presented in a reasonable way and are based on facts and logic.

Ditto

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
I like the TT for what it is, but I wouldn't suggest it's a better sports car. I hope canzoomer is happy with it.We'd better pray it comes with two 12V outlets in the dash and the right-sized return envelope, else he'll probably be back next week.

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
LOL! Canzoomer never responded to my posts point by point - he ignored many of the points I made, and distracted the message. (As for most insulting posts - I seem to recall a post from a certain dissatisfied RX-8 buyer where he called anyone who didn't agree with his demands to swamp Mazda Canada with calls about his issues a bunch of lying, deceitful, scumbags... )

I challenged canzoomer to find any roadtest of any model of TT that showed better performance numbers than any road test of an RX-8. I'm well aware that there are 2 engines offered in the TT, and that the Convertible is heavier than the coupe (but the coupe is still more than 200 lbs heavier than an RX-8). That's why I didn't focus on the acceleration numbers of the 180 hp coupe - but please note that the braking and cornering numbers of that coupe are still worse than the RX-8, and those numbers aren't affected by the engine power. I showed 2 examples of comparison tests where the TT finished worst of the sports cars listed - I certainly didn't imply that those were the only tests - again, can anyone find any test where a 225hp TT coupe is faster? As for relevance to the RX-8, the C+D TT coupe was compared to the Mustang Mach 1 and 350Z, whereas C+D also compared the faster and better handling Mustang Cobra and the G35C to the RX-8, which beat them both. It's fair to infer that RX-8>Mustang Cobra>Mustang Mach 1>Audi TT.

Don't get me wrong, the TT is a fine car, but in a separate thread canzoomer stated that the TT was a better sports car than the RX-8. By what measure? Subjectively and objectively, you can't find any road tests that would support that claim (no matter the engine version).

canzoomer also likes to point to the better Audi warranty, yet he has also posted multiple times about how easy it is to chip the TT's 1.8 turbo engine for impressive HP gains. Perhaps he hasn't done quite enough research, as he seems to have missed the fact that Audi is very aggressive in denying warranty claims when the engines have been chipped. Not much point in chipping the car when you've bought the extended warranty, and not much point in buying the extended warranty if you intend to chip it.

I like the TT for what it is, but I wouldn't suggest it's a better sports car. I hope canzoomer is happy with it.

Regards,
Gordon
I DID ignore some, Gord. The message was way too long as it was, but I had to cover some things, and not talk about others.
My main points ae still the same:
1) I am not happy getting a car significantly different than what I paid for
2) I can not deal with Mazda Canada as tehy are not apparently interested in solving the problems, or working with us that are.
3) The examples of performance tests you cited compared the wrong cars. 180HP TT version, Roadster convertible TT, some Volkswagen sedan, etc.

I suspect that the real track performance of the RX-8 as we have them compared to the TT is about equal. Even if the TT was a bit slower, I am still happier, so that is that.
The TT is probably faster 0-60 and 1/4 and every figure I have seen is agreeing with that. On a skidpad the RX-8 is a bit quicker, and wheels and tires can certainly fix that.
In Canada a Quattro 4 wheel drive will make it handle better than ANY MAzda for 6 months of the year!!
As I live in Edmonton, and NOT Laguna Seca, that is what I am looking for!!

I said I do not think that the sticker price on the TT is worth it, but I guess that is up to everyone and their wallet. That is why I am buying a used one.
At least with the TT warranty I get that "free service" automatically.
As for chipping I went to the dealer last night to show my wife the car, and one thing the salesman said stands out. HE said that a lot of people are chipping these. I said "what about warranty"
He said it was better to not bring it in for service with it chipped. But if somebody does come in with it installed, they tell them to take it home and change that! Whatever.
One experienced TT owner I spoke with said if I want to do this is is prudent to upgrade the intercoolers and exhaust as well.
As I will have about $4K left to play with after this purchase, I am seriously thinking some of this is in the works.
Anyway, this is all pretty irrelevant to the thread. If we want to start an Audi TT vs RX-8 comparison thread, go for it!

Enjoy your RX-8.
If you can tolerate getting less than what you paid for, and the seeming disinterest from Mazda in doing something about it, then you will be happy as a clam.

I, however, am not shellfish!

Originally posted by JTek_55

Why is everyone so obsessed over this supposed power issue? Are you drag racing Civics at every stop light? I hope not. Besides, to get any real power from most cars you have to modify them from stock anyway.



What if you paid for the 225HP TT and they gave you the 180, claimed it was 225, and when you showed them that is IS 180, and they said "OK, it is 216, so we will give you free service and $500"
Or you can sell it back.

What if you REALLY wanted the car you paid for?
What if they were quite capable of making it and selling it to you, but since they talked to some lawyers, are stuck in a mode of denial?

I have spent nearly 2 years trying to buy a car that I wanted , as advertised, within my budget, and am still trying.

This conversation has grown tiresome...

Do you want to touch my monkey? Touch my monkey.. Touch him, love him!

Liebe mein ernst monkey!!

Originally posted by canzoomer


What if you paid for the 225HP TT and they gave you the 180, claimed it was 225, and when you showed them that is IS 180, and they said "OK, it is 216, so we will give you free service and $500"
Or you can sell it back.


What if you REALLY wanted the car you paid for?
What if they were quite capable of making it and selling it to you, but since they talked to some lawyers, are stuck in a mode of denial?

I have spent nearly 2 years trying to buy a car that I wanted , as advertised, within my budget, and am still trying.

Canzoomer, may I assume that you test drove RX-8 before purchasing it? Let me assume two conditions for this post sake. First is that you test drove it. Second is that Mazda claimed RX-8 to produce 1,000 bhp. In this case, it seems fair to guess that you will immediately realize that MAZDA is making false claim and surely walk away from it at once. However, when you test drove it and read the broucher to find it has 250bhp, something must have told you that is sounds right. I feel that you must have felt that the car is producing the power that is close to the claimed figure. The fact that MAZDA changed the power spec on paper DOES NOT & DID NOT CHANGE the power that you felt on test drive. The power did not decrease at all from the time you test drove it to the time MAZDA changed its claim. So why do you suddenly feel it is underpowered? If you felt it is slower than those cars you indicated, why did you purchase it at the first place?

Mazda may have lied to you as you claim. However, it seems that you want to point out only the dark side and not the bright side of story. (Every coin has two sides to it.) That horrible MAZDA corporation decide to unconditionally either buy back or give free service plus $500.00 credit so that you can go purchase your AUDI TT. Did they ever give you trouble with that? At the end, Mazda offered you FREE LONG TERM TEST DRIVE on their BRAND NEW TOP OF THE LINE CAR. What have you REALLY LOST?

Furthermore, there is noone in the world you need to convince to change your own car. It is your car and you are entitled to whatever with it. And it is also your right to come to any forum of your wish and express your opinion. I am only curious why you spend so much effort debating and arguing and trying to prove you made the right dicision? Do we must agree with you? I am not telling you what to do...noone can do that. But I am curious and thought it wouldn't hurt to ask. Good luck with your TT!

canzoomer = Buyerus Remorsius

http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?threadid=10669

Originally posted by hoorruu


Canzoomer, may I assume that you test drove RX-8 before purchasing it? Let me assume two conditions for this post sake. First is that you test drove it. Second is that Mazda claimed RX-8 to produce 1,000 bhp. In this case, it seems fair to guess that you will immediately realize that MAZDA is making false claim and surely walk away from it at once. However, when you test drove it and read the broucher to find it has 250bhp, something must have told you that is sounds right. I feel that you must have felt that the car is producing the power that is close to the claimed figure. The fact that MAZDA changed the power spec on paper DOES NOT & DID NOT CHANGE the power that you felt on test drive. The power did not decrease at all from the time you test drove it to the time MAZDA changed its claim. So why do you suddenly feel it is underpowered? If you felt it is slower than those cars you indicated, why did you purchase it at the first place?

Mazda may have lied to you as you claim. However, it seems that you want to point out only the dark side and not the bright side of story. (Every coin has two sides to it.) That horrible MAZDA corporation decide to unconditionally either buy back or give free service plus $500.00 credit so that you can go purchase your AUDI TT. Did they ever give you trouble with that? At the end, Mazda offered you FREE LONG TERM TEST DRIVE on their BRAND NEW TOP OF THE LINE CAR. What have you REALLY LOST?

Furthermore, there is noone in the world you need to convince to change your own car. It is your car and you are entitled to whatever with it. And it is also your right to come to any forum of your wish and express your opinion. I am only curious why you spend so much effort debating and arguing and trying to prove you made the right dicision? Do we must agree with you? I am not telling you what to do...noone can do that. But I am curious and thought it wouldn't hurt to ask. Good luck with your TT!

Nope. I got the first one delivered in Canada. I did not thrash it in breakin, and I left town for a month the day after I got it.

I came home to hear about the debacle, and after I finished my breakin I finally opened her up a bit and found it lacking.
I know what 250HP feels like. This is not it.

Even if I wanted a test drive, the dealers have no cars, as Canada only received about 650 so far, and they are pretty well all spoken for.

You are right, though, I should have known better than to buy a car with no history.

A guys gotta dream once in a while though..

So, in hindsight, I should not have bought it.
Oh well..

Why am I posting on this thread?
Simple, I started the thread.
I still get emails from the server telling me when others reply.
I am posting replies to people talking to me or asking me questions. Apparently, for example, some people have not had experience with block heaters.

I will remind you that I am STILL an RX-8 owner, and will be for while yet, until they give me my money back.
And when some guy makes ill-informed statements to me on the topic, and tries to make it a bit too personal, well, I admit I don;t mind pricking his balloon too!

I Fedexed the form to them on Monday.
Track # 790401467565
Signed for today by "Z.Z."

So, at Mazda Canada they have a famous soccer player called Zinedine Zidane working for them! Cool!!


I am happy that I DID get my car early, as I am not one of the poor saps who still have not received theirs ( even though they got deposits on them months ago) and who are now being told they do not get the free service if they keep the car..

As a friend who has been watching this thread on the sidelines as a lurker said to me today:
"Why do so many of these guys have their heads in the sand like an ostrich?"

I said "Beats me, probaby the same guys that elected Chretien up here in Canada, or who believed Clinton when he said he did not have sex with Monica."

So, consider it a public service announcement.
I hope nobody else gets themselves into this pickle like I did.

Originally posted by canzoomer
As a friend who has been watching this thread on the sidelines as a lurker said to me today:
"Why do so many of these guys have their heads in the sand like an ostrich?"

I said "Beats me, probaby the same guys that elected Chretien up here in Canada, or who believed Clinton when he said he did not have sex with Monica."


canzoomer, you've got the right to your opinions. Obviously, this isn't the car for you and that's fine. I wish you the best with your TT.

I did just want to point out what you wrote above, though. Why must you continue to belittle other people's opinions? I respect your view of the car. Please respect mine and many others.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that the majority of RX-8 owners are very happy with their purchase?

Some people are getting decent gas mileage - mine ranges from 22-24 mpg.
Some people are happy with the power.
Some people have no need for a block heater.
Some people think the A/C works fine.
Some people don't have heat-in-the-cabin-problems.
Some people simply love the car.

Your comments above and in many other posts imply that we're all a bunch of lemmings, blinded by our undying love for Mazda. I can tell you, at least for me, that is not so.

Originally posted by klegg
Thank you lespaul, that is exactly my point, stated calmly and elequently

Hahaha, so do you know a Dr. Jekyl? :p



The TT is not a great handler on the track, but on the streets it's really not going to be noticeable, and the Quattro will pay off when the weather is nasty. The TT is clearly a better fit for you Canzoomer and I hope you enjoy it. I believe they offer chips (reflashes) that are undetectable by the dealer as well unless they monitor your boost very closely, plus many Audi and VW dealers are mod friendly and will overlook several mods made to a car when it comes to warranty work.


Ike

Canzoomer, according to you, people who can enjoy RX-8 should share some common ground:

-They should be able to telerate getting less than what they paid for.
-They should be able to endure MAZDA Corp who is out to cheat them and DOESN'T DO ANYTHING to help the situation.
-They should have the characteristic of clam/shell fish unlike you.
-They are likely to believe Clinton when he stated he did not have...

Do you honestly believe these are ture? There are so much more happy RX-8 owners than unhappy owners even after the HP issue is out on public. I don't believe it is because of the characteristics you outlined above. This indeed seems to me a Unprovoked & Serious Character Attack Against All RX-8 Owners (& Would be Owners Like Myself). There are other reasons to stick with RX-8. One of which is: Many of your problem with RX-8 does not equal to others' problem with RX-8!
-Power seems to be plenty for my need for this price. I've no need to always compete against boy racers on redlight. It supports 4 adult passengers comfortably. Either 250 or 220 bhp, it seems solid and strong enough for my need.
-Gas milage might be problem for some but not for me. I own Lexus LX470 SUV and fortunately I can afford the gas whatever it cost. And after spending $$$ for LX470 refueling, this issue seems non issue to me.
-Roasting feet seems to occur to only some owners and not all. I will make sure to test it out BEFORE I pay for my new RX-8.
-Here in Auckland, NZ, the winter weather barely gets to 0'C & no snow. Therefore, it should not be a problem to me.
-Oil light seems to happen only to some and I was told by my dealer that my car is manufactured on late August, and it is fixed.
-Regarding floormat, we get sports version that is totally fitted and screwed on right place.
-I don't need no leather on my parking lever.
-Not every RX-8 owner needs 2 12V outlets.

On the other hand, I don't thnk I can find a car that cost less or same as this car that gets this much attention that is also happen to be very pratical & unique at the same time.

On a sidenote, I was curious to find out why you felt need to FedEx the letter to Mazda? Were you concerned that they will deny receiving it in attempt not to refund your money? Or did you simply wanted to send it ASAP?

Originally posted by aussie77
canzoomer = Buyerus Remorsius

http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?threadid=10669

That about sums it up.

Everytime canzoomer posts, I get these Trollus Haticus tendancies.

I have never posted anything here, so this IS my first one.
I have been reading this thread for a while now... well, everything that could be said probably said. Well, this guy, forgot his name already, carzoomer or something, is still writing damn long responses...

I am just curious and no mean to insult.

Hurray for morons! Interesting how you felt the need to make it clear that this is your first post here...

Originally posted by bon911
I have never posted anything here, so this IS my first one.
I have been reading this thread for a while now... well, everything that could be said probably said. Well, this guy, forgot his name already, carzoomer or something, is still writing damn long responses...

I am just curious and no mean to insult.

Are you sexually depressed? or Are you gay? in other word, 'fag'?

Welcome to the forum and I imagine goodbye as well. Your first and probably last post on this forum has been memorable, to say the least.

The fact is that you did insult. Although canzoomer has been a pain in the arse for some here with his constant comical ranting and raving, he does not deserve to be called a derogatory name in your previous post.

Originally posted by bon911


I am just curious and no mean to insult.



1st....Welcome to the forum bon911.

2nd...While everyone here sometimes gripes/b*tches at each other, it is usually keep to a minimum. Note, I did say usually. This is one of those threads that exceeds that. However, while we all swap ideas, opinions, and even heated debates/arguements, it IS NOT appropriate, (especially for your 1st post), to be so rash and demeaning to another member of this forum. I hope you consider that on any future posts. We have enough name-callers on this site...we don't need anymore.

Canzoomer

Why are still driving your rx-8 Why haven't you turned it in, it must be a big giant slap in the face having to drive your car everyday. The thing I find the most amazing is that you can tell the difference between 238hp and 250hp I've worked as a tech for 25+ yrs and I would never hope to be able to tell the difference, I would think that I would have to sell my soul to the devil for that. You must have car manufactures beating down your door offering millions of $ for that kind knowledge. Hell just think if you worked for Mazda the amount of money they would be saving right know if would have driven the rx-8 before the spec where released then the would have known the proper hp specs. You the Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


P.s I would really like to have my car dyno'd so do you think you could take it for a drive?

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Hurray for morons! Interesting how you felt the need to make it clear that this is your first post here...

Well ike, the guy has probably been drivin to this point by, lets see, trolls like you!!!!225 posts on a site for a car you do not own? At least this guy is honest, and does not have a agenda like you do. And by the way, I treat those who deserve it, and many who do not, with respect.

It is trolls like yourself that bring out "MR HYDE", but perhaps we go off on the wrong foot. Its not your fault you seemingly have no social life , and I suspect still live in your parents basement.
'Tell you what, I will forget you are a non mazda owning troll, If you can forgive me for pointing out your inflamatory agenda. I will take you under my wing, and teach you how to become a productive member of society. We will begain by learning how to get a date. Soon, you will lose the urge to post nonsense here, and discover the joys of social interaction with real live people!!!

Sound fair pal? Hell, If we become friends, I will even send you a cheese log for xmas! And yes this is ment to be purely farcical, in an attempt to cool things off a bit.

I guess I should not have used the last word... apologize for that.

I really was curious tho... I mean he had to even complain about the envelope... jeez.

I think that everyone here by now knows that Canzoomer just likes to complain, I've only just found this board and I can already tell that much. I hope that he gets his TT and that way he can join the TT forum and start complaining about it.

Originally posted by wintermute
I hope that he gets his TT and that way he can join the TT forum and start complaining about it.

I totally agree! I bet it wouldn't be long before he was sexually slandered over there also. ;)

I have an idea....I say the moderators just close this thread and we all just drop the subject. I don't think anything is going on except back and forth bickering. Retire the thread. Please, for the love of God!!!. :p

Originally posted by IWANTMYRX8
I have an idea....I say the moderators just close this thread and we all just drop the subject. I don't think anything is going on except back and forth bickering. Retire the thread. Please, for the love of God!!!. :p


Agreed, enough gay bashers and psychos for me.

Originally posted by hoorruu
Canzoomer, according to you, people who can enjoy RX-8 should share some common ground:

-They should be able to telerate getting less than what they paid for.
-They should be able to endure MAZDA Corp who is out to cheat them and DOESN'T DO ANYTHING to help the situation.
-They should have the characteristic of clam/shell fish unlike you.
-They are likely to believe Clinton when he stated he did not have...

Do you honestly believe these are ture?

Yes. At least the first two parts.
Mazda owners must have the tolerance for abuse of a saint.
Guess that rules me out.

The shellfish line WAS a joke, eh?
Clinton, I can't say. I am Canadian, so I can only sit on the sidelines reading the papers and wonder..
Chretien? Well, I live in Western Canada. Canadians will know what that means, and for the rest of the world, well, we don't like him too much. Yet another French Canadian Prime Minister from a long line.

If people want to read joyous reports only, then they should go read and post in the forums where people are shining sunshine like a 1,000W bulb. Hey, I can contribute one:
That pocket on the back of the rear seat centre removable panel. In the trunk it is the perfect place to stow that bottle of 5-20W oil you need to have at hand.

As some have pointed out this is a place for people to express their opinions and experiences.
I did so.

Iam NOT forcing anybody to read/reply here!
I started a thread to summarize and state why I am returning my 8.
I so foolishly mentioned I am getting a TT and why. Look what that started!
I do not give a crap if it IS or is NOT not quite as fast as the RX-8 actually.
With the 4WD, as many have noticed, it is an ideal car for where I live and drive.

If people read my earlier postings I agonized over 350Z, G35 Coupe, and other cars that are outside my budget.

One thing the RX-8 does have that is right on the money is the price tag.
There is no better bang for the buck in a new sports car.
None.
Show me one.

I guess it was too good to be true..

There, that should probably start a new debate!!


On a sidenote, I was curious to find out why you felt need to FedEx the letter to Mazda? Were you concerned that they will deny receiving it in attempt not to refund your money? Or did you simply wanted to send it ASAP?

Both!

The letter we got says we should check off box 1 for the $500 and the service, or 2 for "If you wish to discuss the option of having your 2004 Mazda RX-8 repurchased, please call Mazda Canada's Customer Relations Department"

I called the Customer Relations Department and "discussed the option" already.

Nowhere does it say "Yes, I want to get my money back" or anything like it.
It sounds rather evasive.
The lawyers must have told them "Don't actually promise that in writing to anybody!!"

If you read the thread on these forums about it, some people who were told that as long as their deposit was paid before Aug. 26th would be offered the same deal.
Now Mazda Canada has started to renege on that too!

They have no opportunity to test drive as there are no available cars for testing, let alone buying, how else are they supposed to decide???

I wanted to get my letter, and my form in as soon as possible before they start changing that too!
Remember they did not even offer us the same deal as owners in the USA. Less money and 1 year less service..

So, yes, I am a bit distrusting of them.
I think I have made it amply clear why that is so.
I did not realize I was buying a politician, just a car.

And for those who are so pained by my messages:
YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ THESE THREADS!

Or are you drawn like moths to a flame?

Originally posted by IkeWRX



Agreed, enough gay bashers and psychos for me.

Ah, the voice of reason now. For once, you and I can agree on something.

By the way, you really should try the wrx chat rooms, you might learn something useful about the CAR YOU OWN!

Trust me, your insight here will not be missed.

Q: What's the difference between Canzoomer and the turbocharger in his new Audi TT?

A: The turbocharger will stop whining when the car gets parked...

...sorry canzoomer, I couldn't resist :p ...

Originally posted by 73JPS
Q: What's the difference between Canzoomer and the turbocharger in his new Audi TT?

A: The turbocharger will stop whining when the car gets parked...

...sorry canzoomer, I couldn't resist :p ...
Hey! Cheap Shot!!

I like it.

At least you are not drooling and thrashing that I insulted your car.

I can take the bashing, so no sweat.

And for all those who just hate what I said:

"You still here??"

:D :D :D :D :D

Now just imagine your RX-8 with 30 more horsepower, and 24mpg..

Mmmmmm...

There, I bet that hurt you more than you just hurt me!!

heh..heh..heh...

Admit it.

Now would SOMEBODY just close this damned thread??

canzoomer, You do have legitimate grievances with the 8, but you must be the biggest whiner here. I don't know where to start. I happen to own a VW 1.8 t with a chip, my car looks stock, It has 210 Hp and 240 tq at the crank, and believe me if your not above 6g in your 8 my VW will have an rx-8 for lunch from a roll. My Friend has a GTI 25Th aniversary addition with a chip and exhaust ,and his car will eat my 8 at the drag strip. The moral of the story is that there will be cars that will be faster. AND don't think that getting a TT doesn't come with it's own set of problems. There's nothing like paying huge some of money for a car that has an interior that rattles and squeeks like a 77 pinto. Sure the plastic and interior trim is superior to anything that Mazda has, but it doesn't make much of a diff if your interior has it's own soundtrack that plays independently from your nice bose stereo. The other thing is that you're buying a golf with a much gussied up exterior and interior. If your going to spend that much money on a golf chassis, just wait for an R32 and slap a supercharger on it with the money you save. and I guess you've never heard of VW/Audi's legendary reputation for reliblility LOL, or for that matter any german manufacturer with the exception of older mercedes-benz. Mypoint is that if you had gripes with your 8 , then be prepared if your getting a TT. I have several friends who own Audi/VW products and everyone of them have had problems with there cars, from window regulators that blow up, ignition coils that die to interiors that rattle like chevettes. There FIne cars but they have there own problems, that are common because of the drivetrain and platform sharing.
Good luck with your TT, but i suspect in a few weeks you'll be on the Audi websites, bitching about the turbo lag, how the car is a stone below 3000 rpm, how it surges after the plastic diverter valve goes, how the interior rattles and how crappy in general the service experience is at Audi dealership's because their tech's don't know shite about the cars they fix.

you've not bashed or insulted "my" car, or 73JPS's car. Just yours.

what did that first time actually say on his/her first post, besides that it was the first post? I can't remember the name...

Originally posted by 73JPS
Q: What's the difference between Canzoomer and the turbocharger in his new Audi TT?

A: The turbocharger will stop whining when the car gets parked...

...sorry canzoomer, I couldn't resist :p ...

:D

Originally posted by hoorruu

On a sidenote, I was curious to find out why you felt need to FedEx the letter to Mazda? Were you concerned that they will deny receiving it in attempt not to refund your money? Or did you simply wanted to send it ASAP?


The real reason canzoomer used FedEx is because they use large envelopes, he couldn't figure out how to put the return letter into the original envelope that MazCan sent him because it was too small. :D

Everybody has their own take on the situation, but I'm not overly enthused by the RX8. I ordered and waited 18 months for it to arrive, and have driven the new car over 1,000 miles already, but there are things I don't like. The trunk opening is about 2" too narrow. I drive to and from airport regularly and have luggage. One appeal to the new RX8 over my 93' RX7 was the trunk and space to put my luggage. The trunk is plenty spacious but I keep banging and bumping the edges getting my roll aboard and Tumi briefcase in and out of the trunk. It's just a matter of time befopre it starts tearing up the edges of the rubber gasket, etc.

It may seem trivial, but I also don't like how my right armrest is unusable if a cup or can are in the cup holder. I've also been surprised by how bad the vision is out the back, the rear post creates a pretty bad blind spot.

All this is factored into that cost was $31,100 plus sales tax and I've experienced a $2 grand annual increase in my auto insurance. I'll give the RX8 back, keep driving my Saturn wagon, and I can get a early model Miata to pay with on weekends for what I would lose in 1st year depreciation on the RX8.

It's been fun to have and drive for few weeks but not something I'm married too!

Sorry that you're unhappy with the trunk. It sounds like you really didn't know what you were getting yourself into, though. Didn't you check your insurance rates before you bought it?

You aren't going to be able to insure an RX8 for the same amount as your Saturn station wagon. You're also not going to be able to compare the two cars either....way different purposes for both.

Anything that's going to be the least bit sporting is going to cost you more on the insurance front. That said, $2K raise is hefty. Do you have any moving violations on your record? How old are you?

Originally posted by jbr3rd
Everybody has their own take on the situation, but I'm not overly enthused by the RX8. I ordered and waited 18 months for it to arrive, and have driven the new car over 1,000 miles already, but there are things I don't like. The trunk opening is about 2" too narrow. I drive to and from airport regularly and have luggage. One appeal to the new RX8 over my 93' RX7 was the trunk and space to put my luggage. The trunk is plenty spacious but I keep banging and bumping the edges getting my roll aboard and Tumi briefcase in and out of the trunk. It's just a matter of time befopre it starts tearing up the edges of the rubber gasket, etc.

It may seem trivial, but I also don't like how my right armrest is unusable if a cup or can are in the cup holder. I've also been surprised by how bad the vision is out the back, the rear post creates a pretty bad blind spot.

All this is factored into that cost was $31,100 plus sales tax and I've experienced a $2 grand annual increase in my auto insurance. I'll give the RX8 back, keep driving my Saturn wagon, and I can get a early model Miata to pay with on weekends for what I would lose in 1st year depreciation on the RX8.

It's been fun to have and drive for few weeks but not something I'm married too!

You should always cheak with your insurance co, helps avoid just this kind of surprise. I went from a mitsu gsx to the 8, mine only went up $100.00. I would shop around for a new company.

My insurance went down $200/year :eek: Sold our 99 Ford Windstar SEL and the insurance was lower on the new RX-8 :D

If you are complaining about putting a suitcase and bag in your 8 :confused: then to quote myself:
Originally posted by RXhusker
The little things like making a run to Sam's Club to pick up some stuff for the office and getting:

1 - 15 roll bag of paper towels
2 - 5000 count boxes of copy paper
2 - 30 packs of 1/2 liter bottles of water

and

10 cases of soda cans!

All that plus myself and a passenger :D

Not bad for a sports car -- lets see you try to get that in a s2k, 350Z, etc., etc.

It still amazes me when I go to the grocery that I can fit 2 weeks of groceries in the 8. The first time I did that I thought, "how am I going to get this stuff home?"

All fits nice and neat in the trunk.

I used to have a Turbo PT Cruiser. I don't miss the extra room at all. I can fit everything I need to in the RX8.

I met up with Canzoomer and Carmen a couple weeks ago because I wanted a closer look at the 8.

Nice car and all. 4 seater, nice interior, decent trunk space, BUT...

I rode in Canzoomer's 8, and the acceleration and power of the 8 seems a bit lacking according to what I felt on my butt. I have my doubts in Mazda revised hp figure of 238 seeing how the avg whp on dyno charts have been 180.

join the club

Originally posted by Seks
I met up with Canzoomer and Carmen a couple weeks ago because I wanted a closer look at the 8.

Nice car and all. 4 seater, nice interior, decent trunk space, BUT...

I rode in Canzoomer's 8, and the acceleration and power of the 8 seems a bit lacking according to what I felt on my butt. I have my doubts in Mazda revised hp figure of 238 seeing how the avg whp on dyno charts have been 180.

Hey Seks, want to meet one eve this week and do some more comparisons?

BTW, i was at Alberta Honda yesterday.
We are shopping for a replacement for our current 99 Odyssey van.

They have a 2002 S2000 there in silver, with 7500km
It was driven by the sales manager for the last few months.
They will part with it for $40K, including full warranty, as it has never been sold..

Tempting.

I was about to say how expensive that was until I relaized I was being a dork and thinking US dollars. For 40K canadian thats a hell fo a deal!

It is an amazing deal.

Consider that the Canada sticker price is $49,840, and with freight, PDI docs fees, "let us screw you because we are a dealer tax", you generally pay around $51,500 up here..

In U.S. dollars $40k is around $29,300

AND it has about 2K$ of options on it too..

Still, a soft top, no rear seats... Not for me, but I WAS tempted!

Hey Seks, want to meet one eve this week and do some more comparisons?


I should be free this tues evening and thurs evening. Not sure about wed though. Let me know. Besides, we're only like less than 5 min away from each other's places.


BTW, i was at Alberta Honda yesterday.
We are shopping for a replacement for our current 99 Odyssey van.

They have a 2002 S2000 there in silver, with 7500km
It was driven by the sales manager for the last few months.
They will part with it for $40K, including full warranty, as it has never been sold..

Tempting.

If all you want is a raw 2-seater, you can't go wrong with that price. If you're gonna drive it in winter, make sure you get snow tires.

There's a s2k owner which i've met down in Calgary, he drives his with snow tires and hardtop on all winter.

OK, weather permitting then, let's shoot for Tuesday and see how mother nature co-operates..
Maybe email me off list and we can communicate there without bothering the list readers..

I completely agree with canzoomer. I am just as pissed as he is with the fact that mazda has lied to their customers about the RX8.

I am in the middle of returning my 8 back to the dealer and I am getting nothing but grief from the dealer and mazda customer service.

I would not recommend anyone purchasing an 8 if they expect that they will need to deal with a dealership or mazda customer service on any issues with the car itself.

The last call I had from customer service at mazda was an hour long argument on how it was my fault that mazda customer service did not make notes on my account to where I was returning my car.

- An extremely dissapointed X - customer.

sorry to hear that

damn this thread is old

Friend of mine just turned in his RX8 for various issues.
Mazda initially denied Lemon claim but they changed their position shortly after they learned that his father is famous civil lawyer in Boston.

I almost purchased RX8 but at the last minute, I stuck with my original plan, S2000. Couldn't be happier.

Soundzero.....your 2 posts as of yet consisted of.......RX-8 first model year "test mule at owners expence"

and now your supposed friend returning under "lemon law"....with problems from the dealership etc etc.,.

Being so happy you didnt buy this car......I'm sure there might be a s2000 message board around for you to rejoice on.

I agree with Gyro....Soundzero.....your reason for being here is....what??? If you're so disgusted with the RX-8, why bother reading all about it? Do you think those of us who love our cars are going to decide to get rid of them because YOU SAY SO? Maybe you've been breathing too many of those S2000 exhaust fumes.

Um, Canzoomer, I gather you changed your mind since you posted this and decided to fix your car instead of return it?

Soundzero....I agree, why are you here?

Originally posted by Edo
canzoomer, if you are giving the car back, why are you still on the forum?
You dont need to justify your decision to give the car back - thats your decision.
Every person judges a car using their own criteria, uses the car for different things, and compares to different cars.
I have my test this friday, and will be comparing to my 225 TT.
Unless it is exceptionally slower than the TT (which the figures do not suggest) I will be getting it. I realise that it will require a different driving style. But variety is the spice of life.

Just my 2 penny/cent worth.


some of you guys ask the funniest questions. Why do you even ask if canzoomer is on this forum posting about his lemon 8 when you sound like you don't even own a 8 yet. if you think he doesn't have the reason to post because he's giving up on his car, then you definately don't have the right to post because you don't even have one yet.

it is important for people like canzoomer to give us insights on the ups and downs of a car.. especially if it is a down. but like you said, it is every man's own criteria which affects their choice.

Originally posted by ZoomZoom
Yea I also noticed that the letter didn't fit the envelope the first day I received it. However, I was able to figure out that I could fold the letter to make it fit into given envelope - I don't think that canzoomer is very bright.

Best thing for MazCan is that he has decide to return his car - but that assumes that he has figured out how to return his letter. :D

for you guys who think canzoomer is less than bright... shame on you.

if you receive an envelope that is too small for your letter.. yeah, of course you can make it fit by folding it. but the point is, mazda didn't even take the time to look at the finer details, just like the 8's brochure not matching specs with the final production of the car.

can some of you not read in between the lines?

Gizo, you need to actually check the dates on some posts. This is a very old post that has been abandoned since canzoomer is now doin g one of the most public efforts to re0tune the car and plans on selling units pretty soon.

How can you honestly say that your car is a lemon. Has it been in the shop numerous times for the same problem? Your'e only crying sour grapes because the HP rating is a little short and your lfoot is roasting.

Get a grip! Can you honestly say that you can tell the difference?

You want to see what a lemon is look at the links that I provided below. I had a POS 2002 VW Passat W8 repurchased under Virginia's Lemon Law. In the 13 months That I owned it it was in the shop 15 times for 32 jobs and was out of service for 60 days. It was still in the dealers service lot when I handed them the keys and was given my check. It had been in lot, untouched mind you for a period of 30 days waiting to get the cam adjusters on the drivers side replaced. Waiting for parts.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=916694

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=715586

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=869873

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=941344

Now this car was a lemon. :mad:

THe RX-8 is a far better vehicle in terms of looks and performance. It gets no better MPG than my W8 and gets far more looks and comments. And it drives and handles far better than the VW.

You need to sit down and look at the big picture before calling the car a lemon.

I'm completely at a loss for words here...

Uppps Something just came....

Get up to date.

There.

welcome to 3 months ago!!!

Originally posted by Genom
Gizo, you need to actually check the dates on some posts. This is a very old post that has been abandoned since canzoomer is now doin g one of the most public efforts to re0tune the car and plans on selling units pretty soon.

Ditto!

At that time I truly believed (along with many others) that canzoomer was nothing but a whiner. Now however I have nothing but the highest respects for the man, he has refocused his energy and now he is one of the forums best contributors. I always look forward to his posts.

Originally posted by ZoomZoom
Ditto!

At that time I truly believed (along with many others) that canzoomer was nothing but a whiner. Now however I have nothing but the highest respects for the man, he has refocused his energy and now he is one of the forums best contributors. I always look forward to his posts.

Yup, that says it just right....Except I never thought he was a whiner ....just pushed to the edge.

i still think its a great car regardless of any complaints about some horsepower.

Originally posted by canzoomer
I have decided that I am giving Mazda my RX-8 back.
While it is fun to drive, the negative aspects have now overwhelmed me.

Here is my experience:

Lack of power

The brochure I was given this spring when I paid my deposit claimed 250HP.
When it was shipped to me Mazda had reduced that to 247HP.
After we started taking delivery of the car and many of us said "There is no way in hell this is making 247HP!" they reduced it again to 238HP.
The powertrain in this car is similar to the Miata.
Same transmission and differential unit. Lighter driveshaft.
The Miata drivetrain takes 25HP from the total the engine puts out.
If we apply that to the 238HP claimed now, we get 213HP.
Dynos done on this car range from 165HP to 186HP.

That is still down by 27HP from the 3rd claim they are now making.

A Volkswagen Golf, with 1 1.8 litre turbo makes a claimed 180HP.
It accelerates EXACTLY the same as my RX-8.

I drove an Audi TT yesterday, with the same 1.8l engine,
but more boost and other items allow Audi to claim 225HP
from that engine.
It is WAY faster than my RX-8.
It weighs the same, BTW, so that is not the difference.

God awful gas mileage.
My Honda Odyssey gets 11.2l/100km
My Chev 3/4 ton truck with a 350 V8 gets 13.6/100
The Nissan Setra SE-R Spec V that I sold to buy this car made
190HP at the front wheels on a dyno ( two dynos actually,
I got it tested at two places) and got 12.4/100
My buddy's pathfinder gets 12.7/100
My RX-8 gets 15.8/100

A friends RX-7 3rd gen, twin turbo, with boost controller, and Apexi computer, and lots of other mods makes around 300+HP, and gets better mileage than my RX-8!

I have had no problem driving within 10% of the EPA mileage figures on every other car I presently or previously owned.

Roasting feet.
When I turn on the fan hot air comes out of the vents.
To drive around I have to turn on the air conditioner.
If I just turn on the fan my wife and daughter tell me to turn it off as they are cooking.

Not suitable for winter
No way to get a block heater, even though I paid for one on my sales invoice. Dealer won't do it, Mazda Canda has no solution.
Dealer put it on the sales invoice, I did not have to ask for it.
Dealer did not bother to mention they did not do it. Only noticed last week, when I was starting to plan winter preparation, and notice there is no cord. The dealer and Mazda Canada tell me they have no solution at this time. They do not have a block heater part, or a way to install one.
I live in Edmonton, for crying out loud. Last March it hit -30C one night ( -22 for you Yanks). I guess the heat out put around the feet might have come in useful there, but we found one more bug:

Turn on the heat to about halfway.
Set the ventilation mode to heat the windshield and the floor, no air from the dash.
When heating up a car when it is cold out I want hot air on the windshield to thaw it, and the rest to the floor to heat it and drive the cold up and out, and to melt the snow on your feet, and dry out the floor mats.
I do NOT want it coming out the dash and blowing in my face.

Whan you do this on the RX-8, the air conditioning comes on and blows cold air on your feet.
Doh!
Again I talked to Mazda about that little detail, and they said nothing could be done about it.

Oil light on the dash.
When I go at higher speeds on the highway, it comes on after about 10 minutes.
I hear they know about that problem in the USA and Australia.
They did not know about it in Canada until last week, when I called them about it,
I got tired of hearing them repeatedly telling me my oil must be low,
and me telling them that it is topped up.
Finally I insisted they call Mazda USA and check.
They got back to me to say there would be a service bulletin.
In at least two weeks. They apparently have to translate it into French first.
They are ordering the parts this coming week, so they will be here in about a month.
I explained that I plan a rather longish road trip at the end of the month, and hoped it could be fixed by then, so that if I really did have an oil problem I would know about it.
They tell me that is not going to happen soon.

Little things
The floor mat on the drivers side. In Canada they put the hole for the clip in the wrong place.
Considering my sale was registered in mid July with them, and I got my customer satisfaction
questionaire a month ago, they have had lots of time to send me a new floor mat.

The brochure listed a leather covered parking brake lever. No leather.
The brochure listed 2 12 volt outlets, one in the dash, and one in the console.
And a cigarette lighter. ( I smoke).
I thought this would be perfect. One for my cell phone or a GPS, and one for a radar detector.
Once I got the car I found no outlet in the dash. When I called Mazda Canada and asked they said the lighter is IN the dash outlet. The guy said I shud be grateful as they gave me a "free lighter". The brochure lists the lighter..

Mazda lied about the power (THREE TIMES), lied about the blockheater, lied about the interior items, and lied about the gas mileage.

And they refuse to fix ANY of these problems.
The odd items they have owned up to, are taking forever to fix.

They can take this car and shove it!

I am eagerly waiting for the response from my letter,
so I can (hopefully) get rid of this lemon soon.



I filled up today...gas was $2.35 a gallon......my tranny is not working again...........It might be time to unload the 8

The Baller

BTW.....I got 11 MPG on the last tank........

Holy old post batman!

Originally posted by Baller
BTW.....I got 11 MPG on the last tank........

Have a look at your airflter/airbox to see if it has oil in it...

curious...

Simon.

no oil