click and be stunned... Mitsu is creepy...

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38027&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

Well if I was considering buying an Evo before I sure as all hell am NOT any more... wow scary...

yes we have replaced complete clutch assemblies in 2 evos already one at 7,000 mile and one at 2,000 mile both were not warranty customer had to pay $1,500 for the work. also the brakes last about 8,000 mile tires last about 10,000 miles. we have not had either yet, but i have heard other dealers with tires,brakes and clutch assemblies.

ouch... that's pretty 0wn3d...

Holy crapola.. That sucks man.. I can't believe mitsubishi would condone such behavior.. is it the dealership or mitsubishi themselves that are doing this??

Nonetheless I would NEVER buy a Mitsubishi with that sort of customer relations...

Simply unbelievable how a company could stoop so low as to screw their customers out of legit warranty work.

Maybe he and I should get together! I smell "Class action"!;)

"screw their customers out of legit warranty work." ???

I would guess an owner's EVO warranty says all bets are off if they race..yes? I assume Mitsu is not expecting the owner to mention it to them, like...

"Hey Mitus dealer, nice day. And by the way, been racing lately so don't forget to cancel my warranty, will you?" So what's the point of crockodile tears when Mitsu say no warranty? Cause they were watching? These guys sound like they raced it in a public place..yes?

(on soapbox) Comeon guys! Owners can race, they can watch. IMHO everyone needs to take responsibilities for their actions.. or be forced to if caught. I mean, if you stole something is it OK then just because you didn't get caught?

As in all thing in life - everyone makes their choices and then takes what comes. Caught at the local track? Surprised? I don't think so! (off soapbox)

PS People shouldn't stop 'racing', they just need to try not to break their expensive toys! :D

Caught racing a sports car? Oooohh the irony!

Originally posted by Digisan
Caught racing a sports car? Oooohh the irony!

No irony there....some too high expectations perhaps.

"SPORTS car" ="RACE car" NOT!

Wannabes 'race' sports cars, race car drivers 'race' race cars.

I don't follow the outrage. I suspect that racing voids the warranty. The guy was racing. He's the bad guy here, not the company. If you owned Mitsubishi and had to pay for repairs that resulted from actions that voided the warranty, perhaps you'd want to check the track too.

Originally posted by Squidward
Nonetheless I would NEVER buy a Mitsubishi with that sort of customer relations...

Yeah, just who the hell do Mitsubishi think they are, not letting their customers lie to them about how they've abused their cars and denying them warranty work that they're not entitled to?

What a bunch of whiners! Why on earth do you expect a manufacturer to pay for repairs that are related to abuse as defined in the warranty exclusions? So there's lots of pictures of Mitsubishi's factory WRC rally cars - that certainly doesn't mean that you could take your Evo rally racing and expect to have warranty coverage of anything afterwards.

Look, people - a warranty is a legal agreement, governed by specific terms and conditions for it to be valid. Racing, even drag racing, never has been and never will be covered. For decades, warranty coverage has been denied for vehicles that have been raced.

If customers were actually honest and truthful about what they've been using their cars for, then the manufacturers wouldn't have to spy. However, it seems that the general mindset now is that the buyers can do what they want, regardless of the warranty conditions, and then feel free to lie to the service departments to get repairs that they are not entitled to. Audi has been through this with people chipping the 1.8T and 2.7T engines to much higher boost levels, blowing things up, then trying to get Audi to pay for the repairs. Subaru is going through this with the WRX, same thing.

Again - the vehicles are warranted as they come from the factory, and for certain reasonable usage. Racing? not covered by warranty. Modify the car? modifications and resulting failures not covered by warranty. Lying, deceitful customers who can't be trusted to have any honesty and integrity of their own who would happily cheat the company of millions of dollars? Would you trust them?

If a buyer of a car wants to play - racing, modifications, whatever - then they have to be prepared to pay if they screw up. It's really simple, and it just comes down to personal integrity. These groups encouraging modifications (like SEMA) don't encourage any personal responsibility - they just want to entice buyers to spend billions of dollars their way.

If I want to have Mazda honour the engine warranty on my RX-8, for example, you can be sure that I'm not going to be messing around with air intakes etc. If I really want that magic intake that might be released next month that gives a dyno-proven 20 hp, then I should be prepared for warranty problems if I have an engine problem down the road. My responsibility for changing the engine systems from the way they were designed and warranted, NOT Mazda's responsibility.

Regards,
Gordon

Here is a simple question, the warranty does stipulate that racing your car isn't covered yet the only way that an RX-8 can reach the advertised performance numbers of 0-60 is to drop the clutch at 8k (remember they are saying please ignore the HP our 0-60 performance remains the same)? Does this means that Mazda considers this to be within the normal use. That means that Mazda (et al) condones this kind of behaviour on the streets but not on the speedway. They need to re-evaluate their stand on this whole issue of performance.

IMHO, if they consider this to be abuse of the car, then they have to stop using the 0-60 under 6 seconds and should simply advertise the 0-60 at WOT. That would mean that the RX-8 does 0-60 in ???

It would make for an interesting court case.

Good comments Mac. Gordon is just bitter from what I can tell. He likes to go around spreading gloom and negativity. On a similar note though. I called my local Ford dealership from mazda to ask about the warranty on a new 03 Cobra. I asked the dealer if I test drove the car and smoked the tires off for an hour if I would still have a warranty. He said, hell yeah. Come down and drive it! I think it's a case of manufacturers not being confident in the product they're offering! If ford WANTS you to dog the car on the test drive and still offers warranty coverage something should be said to the others.

I don't see Gordon as bitter but he is getting annoyed at what he sees posted here. Folks if the warranty spells out no racing otherwise it is void, then it is void. Lying is lying, whether it's the dealer, manufacturer or consumer.

Your Ford dealer may say "hell yes, it's under warranty" but this may be to get you to buy the car. Once you own it, you will probably get a different response. If not then Ford is putting its money where its mouth is. Call me "Doubting Thomas" but I'll believe that when I see it.

I think it's a case of manufacturers not being confident in the product they're offering!

I agree 100%, that is the purpose of my post. If they want to state that their cars are sports cars, and publish performance numbers then they must accept that the cars will be used in this manner. The only safe place to do so in on the speedway not on the streets. If they want to exclude drag racing then they can't publish numbers that can only be matched using drag racing techniques. If they want to exclude track racing then they can't publish performance handling that can be reached only in track racing.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. It is perfectly legal for them to deny warranty work due to racing as long as they do not publish performance numbers that are only achieved with racing maneuvers.

Just my 2¢.

Originally posted by Turbo Matty P
Gordon is just bitter from what I can tell. He likes to go around spreading gloom and negativity. On a similar note though. I called my local Ford dealership from mazda to ask about the warranty on a new 03 Cobra. I asked the dealer if I test drove the car and smoked the tires off for an hour if I would still have a warranty. He said, hell yeah. Come down and drive it!

Matty,
No, I'm not bitter at all - but then I've never tried to make a warranty claim that has been disputed. I've been pointing out the legal aspects that you have overlooked or ignored. Negativity? Sorry, saying that Mazda will say racing voids warranties isn't negative, it's reality. Personal responsibility isn't gloom and negativity.

Real life example - two years ago I was running my Miata at a track day on a road course, and I spun off at about 80 mph and the front subframe was bent. It cost me about $950 to have it repaired. Should I have lied to my insurance company about how the damage occurred and tried to claim it on my auto insurance? By your standards - yes. By my standards - no. You play, you pay. Not gloom and negativity, but real world responsibility for the risks you take. I've been back to the track several times since then, and have a great time - but I don't expect anyone else to pay if I break something.

As for your Ford dealership - if you think what a salesman tells you in order to get you to buy a car from him is legally binding on the manufacturer or would hold up in court, then you haven't learned anything from your MSP experience. Go ahead, ask the Ford dealer to put that in writing and have their lawyers sign off on it. Do you seriously think that you will get it?

I would suggest that before you buy your next car, you ask the manufacturers to put in writing "We hereby certify that it's OK for Matty to make unlimited runs with his car at the dragstrip and to modify the intake and exhaust systems and that none of this will affect his warranty coverage" Tell me honestly, do you believe that you could find a single auto manufacturer, anywhere, that would sign off on that letter?

Mac - excellent question. It's not just RX-8s - the only way ANY manual transmission car can reach the quoted test acceleration numbers is with a clutch drop and smoking tires. That's a fact, even if it would seem abusive. To a certain limited extent, that's OK for you to do. If it crosses that certain extent and becomes abusive, then it's not OK. It's a real gray area - but racing puts it much closer to black than white.

Real life example - BMW's SMG II sequential manual transmission system in the new M3 includes a launch control system - with a certain combination of button pushes and actions, you can then floor the throttle, release the lever, and the computer will do a clutch drop at the best rpm for maximum acceleration. HOWEVER - the computer also keeps track of how many times this launch control system is used. If you use the factory-provided launch control system more than a specified number of times (something like 10 times ever, but I don't recall the exact number), then your engine/powertrain warranty is voided. In Europe, the dealers tell the M3 buyers about this up front. In the US, the dealers and documentation hide the fact that the launch control even exists, but will still void your warranty if it's used too many times.

Regards,
Gordon

Gordon, If I had modified the turbocharger, tinkered with the ECU, adjusted cam timing, added N20, or bypassed the revlimiter I wouldn't hesitate to fess up and replace it myself. How dare you assume otherwise. You don't know me from shit. I have broken many parts racing/tuning on many vehicles throughout the years and I've paid the price for all of them. This was a situation of faulty parts, poor workmanship or what-not. This is not something I could've done while passing someone on the interstate. I place blame where blame is due. At first I expected only what I deserved (getting my motor fixed) now after all fo the hassle I want more. I think I'm entitled to it. Me going to the drag strip and running 2 passes a week on an 1/8th mile track IS NOT grounds for warranty disissal. Also, they have yet to prove I did anything other than spin the tires excessivly.

If it crosses that certain extent and becomes abusive, then it's not OK. It's a real gray area - but racing puts it much closer to black than white.

So why don't they define "abusive" or "racing"? If they want to exclude it fine, but they have to define the context. I know I'm dreaming in technicolour if I expect car manufacturers to spell out in black and white the definition of "abusive" and "racing". They keep this vague because it is in their best interrest to do so. If they spell it out, then the marketing would have to reflect the limitations, which would significantly affect their sales.

This has got me thinking,

part of the purchase incentive of UK preorders has been the promise of a days driver training at the Prodrive facility (this is the place where they make the WRC Impreza's)

I understand this to be in the individuals own car, and will include track time with an instructor.

Could you argue that this would also void the warranty?

(not that I condone trying to screw your warranty, professonal racers must repair their own cars, so why not private racers?)

There's quite a controversy about track days in the UK these days. Manufacturers are handling it differently. Since they've become so popular over the past two or three years, many more people are taking their sporty cars to track days. A FEW manufacturers are now saying that they will honour warranty claims on cars that have been to track days, since it's not racing. Quite a few more manufacturers are still refusing to warrant any car used on a track day. It's being advised to ask your car's manufacturer first before you attend a track day, so that you know where you stand and can factor it into your decision to attend.

I have no idea how Mazda UK intends to handle the RX-8 situation!

Regards,
Gordon

You can't go to track days, I assume it is the same for autox and spirited driving is dangerous on public roads. So what is the point of getting a sports car?

Every manufacturer has a clause in the warranties that say you race the car, your warranty is history. No warranty covers things that are cause by excessive abuse - which is racing.

Given that though, Mitsu is a bunch of asses if they really are going to tracks and reporting people.

Something thats even more ironic though - when the WRX came to the US all the cars had cards inviting them to join the SCCA. However, if they actually competed in an SCCA event, they risked voiding their warranties too!