I know this topic has been beat to death here, but I figured I'd post my thoughts and see if I can get some rational conversation going.

When I heard about the RX-8, I was very excited.

Ever since 1993 (I guess I was 19 at the time) I've always wanted an RX-7 (specifically a 3rd generation). I loved the styling (still think it's one of the most beautiful cars I've ever seen) and loved the rotary engine. I've always been one to root for the underdog. To any of you geeks out there, I use to own Amiga computers back in the day - kind of the rotary engine of the computer world (in my opinion).

A couple of years later I saved $3700 and purchased a 1986 Mazda RX-7, gold, sport package. I loved that car to death. Wish it had a bit more power (160HP I believe?), but it handled incredibly (compared to other cars I had driven at the time). Still gawked at the 3rd generation cars, but the price was definitely out of my range. Ended up putting almost 180K miles on that care before I had to trade it in.

In 1998 I needed a new car. The thought of a used 3rd generation RX-7 had crossed my mind since my financial situation had improved, but I put 30K - 35K+ miles on my car per year, and the thought of putting that many miles on that car was not very pleasing. So, I went with the 'sportiest' thing available at the time that I could afford, and that I liked. I ended up with a 210HP 1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX. I loved that car at the time. Had all the extras that my RX-7 lacked (leather, sunroof, etc.) plus considerably more power. However, to me it handled like garbage compared to the RX-7. Felt like I was sitting very high, tons of body roll around corners, etc. But - it was a sacrafice I was willing to make considering everything else I loved about that car.

Last year I had racked up a total of 160K or so miles on the GSX and needed another car. Didn't like much of what was out there at the time, didn't like the new Eclipse. Had a bit more money to spend this time, so I test drove a new BMW 330. Wasn't too impressed to be honest. Was a very nice car, handled tons better than my GSX, but didn't get butterflies when I hit the gas. Was real excited about the RX-8 at the time, but couldn't hold out an extra year. Ended up purchasing a used 240HP '99 BMW M3 instead. Considerably more power, handled like a dream, and I have always been impressed with BMW longevity. I've seen minor issues (doors, windows, etc.), but the major components, in my limited experience with them, have always been bulletproof.

The RX-8 specs were eventually 'finalized' and I was left a bit disappointed. The styling didn't do it 100% for me - it looks good, but a bit too 'bubbly' I guess for me. The performance numbers also were a bit disappointing. I knew this wasn't a replacement for the RX-7, but I guess I was hoping for something that would be a significant upgrade over my M3 (0-60 in 5.9 or so seconds). The RX-8 came out and I considered possibly trading in my M3, but it seemed like too many trade-offs. I think I preferred the handling of the RX-8 (was a very close call to me), but straight line performance just didn't seem there, even less power than I had thought. That was suprising since the RX-8 was rated at 7 HP over my M3, and didn't have 85K miles of wear on it. It seemed more equivelant to my 210HP GSX than anything else. I thought maybe I hit a bum car so checked out another - same thing, I felt disappointed in the straight-line performance.

So, I ended up doing what I had always wanted - purchased a 2nd vehicle, a 1994 Mazda RX-7. Flew out of state and drove 12 hours back with it. Best 12 hours of driving I've ever had. So, here I am, back in the rotary owners club.

Sorry this is so long-winded, I'm trying to give you my background which might help explain where I'm coming from.

I've been following the RX-8 forums because I do still like the car, love the fact that Mazda is taking the rotary engine forward, and am overall just curious. I'm also a sucker for drama.

I realized that my gut feeling was correct when people started dynoing their cars at 170HP or so. More and more dyno slips started showing up and it became apparent that Mazda had an issue on their hands. Enough people complained, and Mazda lowered their stated HP to a number that's more reasonable, but I still think is out of the ballpark. The RX-8 definitely feels like a 210HP car to me, seat of the pants.

Now, I understand that Mazda is sticking by their performance numbers, and 0-60 in 6 seconds isn't bad, but a 7K or whatever clutch drop just isn't. That's just not practical, and that's not how Mazda should be testing their cars when quoting 0-60 times, in my opinion.

I think that Mazda is lowering their HP numbers (in my very amateur seat of the pants opinion, not by enough) to make people happy that SOMETHING was done to correct the issue, and is offering the maintenance/buyback program because they know they have a serious issue on their hand.

What I don't understand is why some people in the RX-8 community here are so defensive about it. I understand that it's new, and there's a lot of pride involved when getting a new car, but don't you guys feel like you are getting screwed by Mazda?

Yes, I know some people are saying they purchased the car based on how it drove not by the printed specs, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who have never owned cars of this performance level, drove it and were impressed, and compared the printed specs to other cars in the ballpark and figured they knew what they were getting.

In my opinion, if Mazda sold a car rated at 247HP, they should be standing behind their car and delivering a car with that HP rating. I know that for most people the buyback option is 100% acceptable, but there are also many people who traded in their old cars and have to go through a lot of grief and aggravation in order to return their car and purchase something else. While Mazda might be offering the best they can with the buyback, I would think they would have enough pride to FIX the issue instead of saying, basically, take it or leave it.

If the whole emissions excuse is true, which I'm not even 100% convinced it is, I would imagine a fix would be possible. On the other hand, for Mazda to buy back all these vehicles and give maintenance + $500 to everyone else, I have to think that the problem will be very difficult to fix - or else they would just fix it and save their reputation.

I think those who think this will be no big deal and will not affect sales of RX-8s are mistaken. The magazines will get this story, and people will be disappointed or in the least be left with a bad taste regarding Mazda and the RX-8. Both my local dealers have 4+ (last time I checked) cars on the lot and indicated they would sell below MSRP last time I was there.

Do you guys really not care that Mazda advertised false HP numbers? Or do you just have too much pride to admit that you're feeling screwed by this? I would like to think that Mazda would feel the need to fix the issue if more people weren't just 'bought' by the whole free maintenance deal (which isn't worth too much, IMO, especially if the car is lacking 35+ HP like I suspect).

Mazda might be saying that this isn't a replacement for the RX-7, but they sure are selling it as a performance vehicle. With the cars that are out there today, Mazda needs to compete with straight-line performance. Who would want to pull up against a V6 Accord and get beat off the line? A friend of mine has a new high-end Maxima and I know it would toast an RX-8, my M3 can barely beat it. Are these the cars that Mazda really wants to get beat by?

I don't know. But I really think this does not bode well for future rotary powered cars, especially the RX-7. The RX-8 was Mazda's chance to build a good reputation for the rotary in the general community, which it lacks. I think, unfortunately, that Mazda is missing their chance.

I'm still rooting for the underdog, but I wish it stood behind it's product more.

I can't believe I just spent so much time reading that--if there is a point I missed it

>Do you guys really not care that Mazda advertised false HP numbers? Or do you just have too much pride to admit that you're feeling screwed by this? I would like to think that Mazda would feel the need to fix the issue if more people weren't just 'bought' by the whole free maintenance deal (which isn't worth too much, IMO, especially if the car is lacking 35+ HP like I suspect).

What kind of responses do you expect after statements like this?

What kind of responses do you expect after statements like this?

Did I come off harsh? Not trying to. I think it's very normal to feel pride in something that's yours and feel the need to defend it. I'm not putting that down. But I would personally also feel a strong need to get what was advertised.


I can't believe I just spent so much time reading that--if there is a point I missed it

Sorry I rambled. I guess if you don't get the point, then I'm probably not interested in hearing your answer.

There are lots of different kinds of people in this world. The people who feel "screwed" by Mazda or are otherwise dissatisfied with the RX-8 are looking into the buyback.

Others are thrilled with the car's performance and couldn't care less about straight-line, drag race style acceleration. Hey, the car has plenty of power for me, more than I've had in any car so far. The handling is exquisite, and so far the interior and exterior build quality have been better than any other car I've owned.

Today, I told a co-worker about Mazda's HP screw-up and that I'll be getting a $500 debit card and free maintenance, and he was so jealous he almost screamed.

It all depends on your perspective I guess.

It was a quality first post though!

I loved my Amiga 500 too :p


I will admit I've never driven anything this powerfull before. If it feels like a 210hp car, I really would be afraid to drive a 350z I suppose with it's 287hp.

I say this because, I just pulled out of a parking lot (about an hour ago), I was in second gear, I hit the go pedal (took the turn WIDE) and my car slid LEFT than RIGHT, THEN LEFT, then finally I got it under control.

If you would have been in the car you would have thought I was on ICE!

Unbelievably powerfull, at least for me.

It was a quality first post though!

Thanks! :)


I say this because, I just pulled out of a parking lot (about an hour ago), I was in second gear, I hit the go pedal (took the turn WIDE) and my car slid LEFT than RIGHT, THEN LEFT, then finally I got it under control.

I'm getting that a lot with my RX-7 because I'm not use to it yet. I guess that's life with RWD without traction control!

I think loco is right - it is all a matter of perspective. Coming off a 1992 240sx (automatic transmission no less :P) with 183k miles on it, almost anything new would feel great to me. The thing is, I did a lot of research, and had it narrowed down to two cars that I liked. One was the Acura RSX (on Car and Driver's top 10 list), and the other was the RX8. I took the time to thoroughly test-drive them both, and the RX-8 seems to me to just be a beautifully made car.

Certainly the hp issue bugs me a little, but I am not giving my car back over it. The way I currently see things is either the 'missing' hp will show up after break-in, or mazda will be forced to fix things properly in the end. If they don't, the car is still a *ton* of fun to drive. I am getting comments and stares everywhere I go, and even if I wasn't I wouldn't care - I get behind that wheel and I'm in my own little world of fun.

I have no plans to go drag racing, or street racing. Frankly the most I see myself doing is driving a little spiritedly on back-roads now and then. You could put another 40 horses under the hood and I probably would barely notice. Granted I am still in my break-in period so far and haven't really let my own car loose yet, but I did have some great stretches in my test drive (had about 2k miles on it), and it sure seemed to get-up-and-go.

A rambling question from you, and a rambling reply! But, that is my perspective on things as they stand.

I too told my friends of Mazda giving me 5 years free service and $500, They about Sh_t! They all love the car and I have Strangers walking up to me and asking me to look at it every where I go. My friends are jealous of the car and most of them have "sporty" cars that are newer. I have NEVER seen a BMW that turned my head...sorry but all BMWs' look like they are BMWs' nothing ever really new NOT a Flame just facts I love the Style more then the power. If I wanted Speed and pure power only 1 car qualifies for me its the Subaru WRX STi. So if you want to compare tell your friend with the Accord or maxima or what ever to race a little old STi and see how well he does. What I am getting at is if the people who bought the RX8 for speed they bought the car for the wrong reason, if they bought it far handling, style and fun...They bought the perfect car as I did! Anyone who wants Speed look no further for $30K STi it will SMoke em all except for the EVO in the price range.

I'll say what others have said before.

No word of a lie, I would have bought this car with 50hp!

I just wanted the body and the interior! :cool:

The power is icing on the cake!

Oh and some guys at work were also pretty cool about the 9hp loss, I thought I would get razzed. But instead they sent me an e-mail that said "Easiest $500 you'll ever make eh?"

Yup it's true, pretty easy way to make $500.

Wow, that was a long post and it looks like you put a lot of thought into writing it. But I have to pick this point.

Originally posted by Kremlar
Now, I understand that Mazda is sticking by their performance numbers, and 0-60 in 6 seconds isn't bad, but a 7K or whatever clutch drop just isn't. That's just not practical, and that's not how Mazda should be testing their cars when quoting 0-60 times, in my opinion.


How else are they supposed to test it? Isn't it the point to test how it would performance at maximum? Of course, it's not practical. No one goes out and do 0-60 mph test a regular basis. It's just one yard stick to compare to other cars. I don't think it would be fair if all other cars were tested at their performance max but not the RX-8. Ok, I'm done with my rant .:D

Kremlar - welcome to the board. It is obvious what matters most to you is straight line performance. The RX-8 is not designed with that in mind, so you have chosen well, that is, not to purchase an RX-8.

I did not buy my RX-8 for that need. I own a 300 HP 1964 Corvette Stingray for that, and it does straight-line very well. I would suggest for anyone who is only looking for straight-line performance...get yourself an older muscle car. You will also get the looks too.

I did buy the RX-8 for the package, as other posters have mentioned above & in numerous other posts. IMO, the RX-8 does this better than any other 4-seater at this price point.

A used BMW M3 was under my microscope, even after pre-ordering the RX-8. But after my research, the possibility of costly repairs dropped it from contention.

With 2200 miles on the odo, I have just started to open it up.

I am not displeased;)

here's my 2 cents...

i've never been one for numbers...horsepower ratings, 1/4 mile times, etc. has all been just paperwork to me...to me, driving a vehicle that you feel happy in is the most important factor...i had a 3000GT, i've driven an Integra GS-R, my best friend loaned me his G35c for a week, my next door neighbor's best friend drives a 350Z, i took my friend's WRX out for a 45 minutes spin last week...nothing, i mean NOTHING is as complete for my tastes as my RX-8...i'm not just saying that because i have this "new buyer's pride" you're talking about, i'm saying this because it's true...to me the RX-8 is the complete package - looks, performance, interior/exterior build quality, 4 passenger comfortable seating, amenities, etc. of course there are drawbacks with having all these factors in one package such as HP ratings but i frankly don't care because it feels fine to me...

so far the only downside i've seen is that i do NOT get a boost at 6250 RPM...but at around 7500 RPM there is one...what is the time it takes to get from 6250 to 7500? about 1/2 a second...

to me, this whole HP thing is a God blessing...i was already happy with the car and now i'm ECSTATIC that all i need to pay for is gas...no maintenance fees, oil changes are free, AND i get to spend the $500 on more toys to put inside the car...so i'm actually happy there was a dispute on HP ratings...

you want to know what else? EACH AND EVERY PERSON THAT HAS SAT IN MY CAR LOVES IT! there has not been one person yet that wasn't in pure awe at the interior as well as exterior...not one person has commented on the acceleration, speed, nor handling even with 4 people in the car...let me tell you, each and every time i go out, i get AT LEAST one person doing a double take on my car...even when i'm just going to McDonald's there's people eyeing my car like it was Jessica Alba in the nude...

thanks for you comments but to answer your question, no i really don't care much about the magazines or what anyone else thinks...all that matters is what i think and to be frankly honest, i loved the car on the Internet and i love it even more in my garage...


BTR

First of all - thanks guys for not viewing this thread as an attack, because it's not. I appreciate hearing your perspectives.

sorry but all BMWs' look like they are BMWs' nothing ever really new NOT a Flame just facts I love the Style more then the power.

Very true, I can't argue that. I've always loved the RX-7's style like I said, and think the RX-8 is attractive too. Can't say I love the style of my M3. It does have a certain look that I like, but it's not the same. German styling is definitely different, even the interiors are rather square and boring. I think it takes some warming up to.

I do have to have to say I think the BMW 8 series (which they no longer make) is pretty sharp. Friend of mine has a black '95 840. It's not overly stylish, but I think a bit more stylish than the typical BMW. Very nice car all around, but heavy as a tank.

How else are they supposed to test it? Isn't it the point to test how it would performance at maximum?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that most tests are done with a more practical launch, not one that would potentially cause very excess wear on your clutch. I don't have a G-Tech or anything, so maybe I'm off base, but I don't think I would have to rev so high at launch to get 0-60 in 6 in my M3.

It is obvious what matters most to you is straight line performance.

I wouldn't say that, otherwise I'd own an American muscle car too! :) I do think it's fairly important though...

thats cause the m3 has TORQUE! (which everyone loves, no doubt)

however, i think my brother puts it best, "its fun driving a car with no torque!"

that aside, im very glad to see this type of post, its the first post, in a very long while, talk about the bad of the rx-8 without totally flaming it like some moron.

the post is well thought out and seems to actually have a heartfelt question in it, as well as observations that the poster has actually made himself, not just some junk some idiot made up to diss the rx-8

anyway, what i really wish to know is how the remapped ecu improves emmissions


that aside...
ive said it before, and ill say it again, i wouldnt even have a car if it werent for the rx-8. its everything i want. handles well, looks BEAUTIFUL, well made inside and out, beautiful interior, good sounsystem, sick doors, 4 REAL seats, USEABLE trunk, fast enough to kick some ass when you need too, rotory engine, and truly unique.

of course, i MIGHT have gotten a Land Rover Discovery, but i sure as hell wouldnt be NEARLY as happy as i am with the 8, and truthfully, i know that if i had gotten anything else, id be kicking myself everyday

Originally posted by BRx8
...my car like it was Jessica Alba in the nude...

Hey!! You take that BACK!!! :eek:

:D :p

Or do you just have too much pride to admit that you're feeling screwed by this?

It appears that people like you, who do not own one are extremely concerned about why owners are willing to overlook this HP thing. It really disturbs you non-owners worse than us who own and enjoy the car. Why is this sticking in your craw. All you non-owners need to get over it. I suspect well over 90% will keep their cars. We have the perfect option out of this horrible situation if we feel screwed. Get over it, we have. We have the best of all worlds, keep our cars after a 3000 mile test drive or return it no question asked. I don't know how you could feel sorry, or think that we are getting taken advantage of. You have never experienced that kind of offer with any of the cars your long post elaberated on owning. You had to live with all your car purchase decisions, we are in a much better situation than you have ever been in, with a car. Your pity is appreciated, but no needed.

Let me see new fantastic RX-8 with 3 miles on it at delivery or a wrung out 3rd gen with no idea what its been through. Your feeling sorry for me.

Originally posted by Kremlar
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that most tests are done with a more practical launch, not one that would potentially cause very excess wear on your clutch. I don't have a G-Tech or anything, so maybe I'm off base, but I don't think I would have to rev so high at launch to get 0-60 in 6 in my M3.


Not to be blunt, but... you're wrong. Car magazines and manufacturers test to get the absolute best possible acceleration times, no matter what it takes. On a low torque, high revving engine, it takes a clutch drop at high rpm. The Honda S2000 is another perfect example of this - if you want 0-60 in under 6 secs like the car mags get, you're dropping the clutch at 7K revs. By the way, a clutch drop at high rpm isn't hard on the clutch and doesn't cause high wear on the clutch at all. The clutch is disengaged, then all of a sudden it's engaged - no slip and no wear! However, it's very hard on the rest of the drivetrain, and cars like Porsches and Lamborghinis with sticky tires and monstrous power (especially the AWD versions) are known to occasionally spit out halfshafts etc. on acceleration runs. Yes, maximum accel. runs are very hard on a car - but that's what it takes to get the numbers, and they are performed on EVERY car tested by the magazines. The RX-8 technique is nothing unusual.

As for Who would want to pull up against a V6 Accord and get beat off the line? A friend of mine has a new high-end Maxima and I know it would toast an RX-8, my M3 can barely beat it. Are these the cars that Mazda really wants to get beat by? - sorry, I really don't give a crap what some family sedan can do in a straight line - I bought a sports car. After all, a Maybach 57 will do 0-60 in under 5 seconds, and it's a friggin luxury limo! Straight line performance is actually the poorest measure of how much fun a car is to drive, where so many other factors come in to play - like responsiveness, light weight, cornering grip, handling characteristics (under/oversteer and adjustability), engine responsiveness, etc.

Consider the Car and Driver comparison test between the RX-8, Infiniti G35C, and Mustang Cobra. The RX-8 was slightly slower than them in a straight line, and very slightly slower than them around a race track (despite a significant power deficit). However, the editors picked the RX-8 as their first choice over the two more powerful, quicker cars. Obviously it's not just about power, despite what the owners of more powerful cars would have you believe.

Do you ever read the UK magazine EVO? Check out their web site at www.evo.co.uk - it's the best enthusiast car magazine on the market anywhere, IMHO. Then read this Golf R32 vs. RX-8 comparison test (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/roadtest/evo_roadtest_story.php?id=39166) . Please note especially the final paragraph, where they sum up the more powerful Golf R32 vs. RX-8:But the RX-8 is sexier. Better looking. Quieter, smoother and more comfortable. Almost as fast. Better balanced. More fun to drive down a truly demanding road. And, perhaps because of all of that, more interesting. No, it doesn't have the Golf's macho bark. Nor its grip and instantly accessible grunt. If you're in a hot hatch frame of mind, it just won't do. But if you believe that the best drivers' cars are not necessarily the quickest, but those that blend dynamics and performance so seamlessly and cohesively that the driving experience is a powerful singularity rather than a collection of dazzling party tricks, the RX-8 hits the sweet spot with uncanny accuracy.

Let's consider that last sentence again:But if you believe that the best drivers' cars are not necessarily the quickest, but those that blend dynamics and performance so seamlessly and cohesively that the driving experience is a powerful singularity rather than a collection of dazzling party tricks, the RX-8 hits the sweet spot with uncanny accuracy.

There you go - that's what the RX-8 is about, and that's why we absolutely don't give a damn about Accords, Maximas, and other straight line one party trick wonders.

Regards,
Gordon

Well said! Now I just need a turbo....

Its just kinda sad that my modded 1.8T has more hp than the rx-8(193whp)....

I really want to get a 200whp+ RWD NA sportscar.../w 4 seats so I can load tons of chicks in it lol

I guess I will just wait for the mazdaspeed model then...should be a 2005 model right? :)

Originally posted by RX8-U-UP


It appears that people like you, who do not own one are extremely concerned about why owners are willing to overlook this HP thing. It really disturbs you non-owners worse than us who own and enjoy the car. Why is this sticking in your craw. All you non-owners need to get over it. I suspect well over 90% will keep their cars. We have the perfect option out of this horrible situation if we feel screwed. Get over it, we have. We have the best of all worlds, keep our cars after a 3000 mile test drive or return it no question asked. I don't know how you could feel sorry, or think that we are getting taken advantage of. You have never experienced that kind of offer with any of the cars your long post elaberated on owning. You had to live with all your car purchase decisions, we are in a much better situation than you have ever been in, with a car. Your pity is appreciated, but no needed.

Let me see new fantastic RX-8 with 3 miles on it at delivery or a wrung out 3rd gen with no idea what its been through. Your feeling sorry for me.


Did you ever stop to think maybe some of us wanted to own the car as well and expected it to actually have some straightline performance? I'm over it and I think so are most others that don't own the car, we decided not to buy it didn't we? I think those of us from the outside looking in think of what could have been. Your post wreaks of bitterness and not being over it so perhaps you should take your own advice.

Ike


By the way Kremlar, nice post and it rather well summed up the way I feel as well and why I continue to come to these boards. I to wanted an RX-7 but just couldn't pull the trigger due to how many miles I drive a year and not wanting it as my only vehicle.

Let me see new fantastic RX-8 with 3 miles on it at delivery or a wrung out 3rd gen with no idea what its been through. Your feeling sorry for me.

These are the types of posts that made me post to begin with. Please. Tell me how you really feel.... ;)

Not to be blunt, but... you're wrong.

Maybe I am, but I had not read about anything as extreme done to reach stated 0-60 times before in the years I've been reading R&T and C&D. Of course, I haven't read every review especially with as much interest as I read the RX-8 review. It was exceptional enough for them to mention that they had to do it however.

There you go - that's what the RX-8 is about, and that's why we absolutely don't give a damn about Accords, Maximas, and other straight line one party trick wonders.

Understandable, and that's exactly why I don't own a Mustang Cobra. My thing is, I'd rather have the missing HP (which I really do think is more than 9, in my opinion more like 30) than $1500 or so in service in cash, which only equates to less than 3% of the purchase price of the car. But I accept that some people maybe would not.

By the way Kremlar, nice post and it rather well summed up the way I feel as well and why I continue to come to these boards.

Thanks... :)

Ike, you don't own the car, and it just kills you, and many others that the people who do own it for a majority, love it. This looking for a car for your girlfriend is troll crap. She didn't even test drive it ,you did, after you bought your wrx. It would be nice at some point in time to find out what car you did pick for your girlfriend, so we can put your 8 bashing to bed. I'm beginning to wonder if you have a girlfriend, or if you even like girls. Considering they are not capable of picking out their own cars, or test driving them. It a wonder she made it to dating age without you there.

I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. I like the car and I'm not bashing it, it's just not for me. I didn't like it enough to take my girlfriend back for a testdrive so for now she's just driving her Altima. You prove yet again that you are the ultimate fanboi RX8-U-UP, personal attacks on me when I didn't even say anything to impune the car.

Ike

Ike, its not an attack, I truly pity your girlfriend as much as you pity us poor, ignorant 8 owners. How many times do you in so many different ways have to tell us how stupid we are. And how many times in so many different ways do we have to tell you that we don't care what you think. We bought the car we wanted, and you are looking for a car worthy of your girlfriend. You have said it a million times, its not the 8, why are you still here.

I'm here to listen to you cry

Ike, its not an attack, I truly pity your girlfriend as much as you pity us poor, ignorant 8 owners.

Woah woah... what's with all the personal crap? I don't know what's gone on in other threads, but I'm not getting the impression that Ike is trying to insult you. Nor am I. I think it's a great car, just not quite what I anticipated, especially for the price. THAT IS NOT AN INSULT. Not everyone can agree with you, so you shouldn't expect them to.

And last I heard this forum was for the discussion of the RX-8, good and bad, by owners and non-owners alike.

I'm not trying to put down your purchase, just trying to understand some people's reaction to this 'buyback' program.

RX8-U-UP, take a deep, calming breath. Count to 10... heck count to 100. Personal, unwarranted attacks like that are why people are calling us 8 owners defensive :) You don't have to agree with Ike or anything he says on this forum - but neither do you have to turn things personal. How would you like it if you posted something nice about the RX-8 and he turned around and started insulting you and making comments about your girlfriend for it?

Kremlar, regarding the 0-60 times and whatnot...

If you check reviews, the times they post will usually be very close to what the car manufacturer has released as the 'numbers' for said car. Now I think we can all accept that porsche doesn't test-drive their boxter-s, find out it can do 0-60 in 5.7 seconds and then say "What the hell, let's just publish the 0-60 time as 7.0 seconds for those gentle drivers out there".

The cars get pushed to the max... because those numbers are supposed to represent the max. I personally think the fact they mentioned the extremely high rpm clutch drop is more a result of the engine's ability to handle high revs than commentary on the extreme measures required - if you think they drive gently with 1000 rpm shifts in other cars to get the 0-60 times then think again ;)

Originally posted by Kremlar
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that most tests are done with a more practical launch, not one that would potentially cause very excess wear on your clutch. I don't have a G-Tech or anything, so maybe I'm off base, but I don't think I would have to rev so high at launch to get 0-60 in 6 in my M3.


The reason the M3 best 0-60 time doesn't required more rev at launch than the RX-8 is because of its higher torque. But for each car there's an optimal rev point that will produce its best time. Any more rev and it will produce too much wheelspin and smoked the tires. Any less and it will bogged the engine. It's just that higher torque cars required less rev to launch than lower torque cars. For example, a torquier Corvette would required less rev to launch than the M3.

That's enough...

IkeWRX and RX8-U-UP, you'd better check your PMs.

---jps