http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7863

Vince

Duhhh, thanks very much, I will get this down in another 25 years or so.
I am not good at this stuff but it looks like you are putting down 186. Where does that put the mazda claims of 238 at this point?

BTW, thanks

Originally posted by commentator
Duhhh, thanks very much, I will get this down in another 25 years or so.
I am not good at this stuff but it looks like you are putting down 186. Where does that put the mazda claims of 238 at this point?

BTW, thanks

Based on a 17% drivetrain loss, it spits out 224 HP of engine HP. I guess, some can claim it has higher drivetrain losses, but who cares (other than seeing if Mazda is lying or not) if you are producing the same power at the wheels??

Hello, i haven't posted in a long time so i thought this would be a good time. :D Anways, ill get to posting. Given a 17% Drivetrain loss, the crank hp would be about 224hp. I'm satisfied :)

edit: haha rev we double posted... :cool:

Originally posted by SuperRex
Hello, i haven't posted in a long time so i thought this would be a good time. :D Anways, ill get to posting. Given a 17% Drivetrain loss, the crank hp would be about 224hp. I'm satisfied :)

edit: haha rev we double posted... :cool:

It's still 20HP shy of what Mazda stated, why are you satisfied?

because it's about 10 away from the restated hp, and also because the car can HANDLE and I like that. Besides, i'm easilly satisfied.

Originally posted by SuperRex
because it's about 10 away from the restated hp, and also because the car can HANDLE and I like that. Besides, i'm easilly satisfied.

That's too bad, I was hoping more people wanted what they paid for which was 207 RWHP as stated by Mazda. At this rate we will all be stuck with ~185RWHP. :(

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9939

190.2 hp if you go by the dyno run nobody seems to see or mention because it doesnt have the word "DYNO" in the title.

and besides 4000 miles is far from completly broken in.

I'd love to see you dyno with 87 octane, since your 2k miles more then the 190 run, which was done when your car had 175 hp, so you should get 15 more hp,.. if both runs, and cars were equal except for octane.

Originally posted by Digisan


That's too bad, I was hoping more people wanted what they paid for ...
I did get what I paid for -- a great looking car that's fun to drive, handles incredibly well, and is plenty quick enough for me. I could care less what numbers are written on a piece of paper. Drive the car, if you like it, buy it. If you don't, then don't.

Originally posted by Digisan


That's too bad, I was hoping more people wanted what they paid for which was 207 RWHP as stated by Mazda. At this rate we will all be stuck with ~185RWHP. :(

Where did you get 207?? Mazda has stated the car is 238 HP, taking the magical 17% everyone seems so enthused with, that ends up being 197 HP at the wheels...

Seems like in cooler weather, as the miles go up, people are getting closer and closer to this number...

Someone stated in another thread that Mazda claimed the 247hp spec was said to dyno around 207whp.

Mazda North America's SVP of Product Marketing/Development said this in an interview with RotaryNews:

RotaryNews: How much horse power does it make to the rear wheels?

Robert Davis: About 204-207.


See here (http://rotarynews.com/view.php?id=193) for the actual interview. This was when everyone thought the RX-8 was making 247hp.

If we drop both crank and rwhp by 9 then 238 crank hp hitting 195rwhp would be close enough for most people (a 240hp S2000 makes about 195-203rwhp). Getting closer...

and we've allready seen a dyno run of 190 hp, from a car with only 2k miles, and now another at 186, so why is everyone still so mistrusting and angry?

Well, I'd say some of the owners are angry and mistrusting for several reasons. One of them simply is that some people like to feel wronged. The other camp are people who don't even own the car, but typically have a 'competing' model like the 350z and feel the need to bash the RX-8.

[editted by wakeech]

Originally posted by canzoomer
[editted by wakeech]

Don't be too sad.

It's hard to know if the owner modified his/her car. You never know if turned up his boost or if the car is heavily modified.


Magic8

Originally posted by canzoomer
[editted by wakeech]

And you know he was completely stock how? I don't think the result would be the same on a twisty road. But then again, if you can't drive fast with 90 hp, 300 hp ain't gonna help you.

Yeah, his rabbit had a loud muffler. Real Bad-Ass mods!
Maybe he used NAWS, yeah, that must be it..

snicker..

this is so lame.

Originally posted by canzoomer
this is so lame.
You got that right! If your entire reason for buying/driving a car is to impress others, you are pretty lame.

Originally posted by canzoomer
Yeah, his rabbit had a loud muffler. Real Bad-Ass mods!
Maybe he used NAWS, yeah, that must be it..

snicker..

this is so lame.

So, give it back, scrape up a few more bucks and buy a Mustang Cobra (if you can afford the insurance) and you can street race all you want, losing on occasion to a well-driven Z06!

Hey gents,

sorry to report that all street racing stories are disallowed from this forum, and all legitimate (legal) motorsport competition belongs in the correct section.

thanks all,
'Keech

Originally posted by wakeech
Hey gents,

sorry to report that all street racing stories are disallowed from this forum, and all legitimate (legal) motorsport competition belongs in the correct section.

thanks all,
'Keech What about the story of the RX-8 that got beaten at the lights by a Toyota Camry Solara automatic. I don't know if the story was true but it has been referenced by several people on rx8forum (e.g. some S2000 owner, me once as a joke). I suggest you hunt and erase all mention of it. It never happened...;)

I would like to point out that accelerating up to the speed limit, while in total control, and with nobody in front of you IS LEGAL.

I do not consider that "street racing".

While you may consider what I posted to be street racing, then I would have to suggest that this situation would apply to at least 3/4 of the readers of this forum.

However, in the aim of pleasing you, let's revise the wording then:
"Based on a personal experience, in undisclosed conditions, a rather stock looking Volkswagen Golf 18ti is a faster accelerating car than an RX-8, at least below 100kmh."

thats not true, ive driven the VW 1.8t GTI (at least this is what im assuming you mean by "Golf 18ti) and it is not faster than the 8 (at least it didnt feel so to me), in fact, i had a deposit on one up until a few weeks ago
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not to mention he could have added a boost contoler, or any other of a number of electronic gizmos and had quite a bit more power. a car doesnt have to look modifyed to be modifyed.

True enough, the stock 1.8ti is no faster than the RX-8
Nor is it slower.
It was exactly the same, in my experience.
Considering it is an 180HP engine (just like the RX-8), with more torque, that should not be surprising.

The same motor, but with more boost, and quite a few more changes is the 225HP version, is represented in the Audi TT
About the same power as we were *supposed* to get in the 8.

ECU kits for those are cheap and drop right in.
At $500 you get 265HP and 290ft/lb of torque.

And nearly 50% better gas mileage.

Made my mind up.

I put a deposit on a TT Quattro with the 225HP engine yesterday.
Same toys as the 8, HID, traction control, Bose, air, and so on.
The ORIGINAL round vents that rotate. The ones that Mazda dead copied for the RX-8

And no roasted feet. I am looking forward to turning on an air vent and not cooking my feet any longer.

Originally posted by canzoomer
...The ORIGINAL round vents that rotate. The ones that Mazda dead copied for the RX-8...
That's funny - I remember several cars from the 1970's that had vents like these - particularly Alfa Romeos. Amazing how they copied the TT - must have used a time-machine.

I put a deposit on a TT Quattro with the 225HP engine yesterday.

I got rid of my TT Quattro over a year ago.

I have 2 kids, my eldest nine (then) years oldm was squashed in the back of the TT.

I would say that the level of finish was higher on the TT (but mine was black and it almost always looked crap).

The rear door and available load area in the TT is superior to the RX8.

With very few miles on the clock, my (Australian) RX8 seems much quicker that the TT was (the TT never seemed that quick and I think the 4wd must eat much more horsepower).

The RX8 seats four.

I love the way the rotary spins (The TT always seemed to be running out of revs). Plus it's NA, no lag.

The balance/handling of the RX8 feels right, the TT didn't feel like a "good" handling car in FWD format and the Quattro addressed this with more wheels under power.

Bottom line...

The RX8 is the most interesting and practical new car avaliable to me in Australia within a wide price window either side.

If I was single and without kids, I would probably still have the TT.

I found the TT dull as ditchwater to drive, no feedback, and no skill required either.

Its even worse with the gadgets switched off - verging on unsafe - they've well and truly used the electronics to fix handling problems.

With the electronics on its point and go, not what I want (unles I buy a merc ...). Also doesnt let you know whats going on until the electronics cant keep you on the road, and then its way to late for you.

I found the TT dull as ditchwater to drive, no feedback, and no skill required either.

That's probably a fair comment on the handling, you tended to just "point" the TT.

Remembering the gripes I had with my particular car, there were two annoying rattles the never went away, two recalls, a stuff up with the turbo boost being lost and a poor fitting A pillar trim.

(I had one of the first Quattro's in Oz, so the gripes are probably just early manufacture issues).

Originally posted by RobDickinson
I found the TT dull as ditchwater to drive, no feedback, and no skill required either.

Its even worse with the gadgets switched off - verging on unsafe - they've well and truly used the electronics to fix handling problems.I would have to vehemently disagree with this.

The TT is a bit of a pig, given its weight, with a tendency to understeer as with most FWD/AWD vehicles.

But it definitely handles well. It doesn't require skill to drive, which is one of its major benefits. You don't need to be SCCA-licensed to get the most out of a TT, electronics on or off. There are no performance problems the electronics cure, nor is it in any way unsafe at any speed resembling anything that should be approached on a public road. The TT feels wonderfully stable and competent at speeds up to at least 105 MPH, which is where I ran out of courage. Want to improve the handling? Aftermarket springs and shocks make a world of difference for the TT, and if you like a Neuspeed 19mm rear bar can be added that makes the TT so neutral it will even tend a bit towards oversteer.

IMHO, as a long time turbo fan, I think the TT has an excellent turbo. Sure, there's some lag, but when the turbo kicks in, it's like you hit the afterburner button. There's no need to keep revs up, but the turbo is there to give you an extra power boost if you need it. This also, BTW, means excellent fuel mileage unless you keep the turbo online.

Unfortunately, long term satisfaction with the TT is lacking. The biggest factor is the interior - it looks good, but there are rattles everywhere - doors, trim, glove compartment door, shelf under the glove compartment, interior light lenses and most especially, the trim around the rear hatch. I can't remember ever using so much stick-on weatherstrip foam to attempt to quiet rattles ina new car before. The glove compartment door handle is also fragile - several people I know had theirs break off in their hands.

So is the TT a nice car? Sure it is. It's a wonderful GT. Is it better than the 8? Perhaps different, not better. It's certainly less sporty, and it doesn't have a rotary.

But it's certainly not a bad car, and most certainly not in any way unstable or dangerous...

Originally posted by BillK
I would have to vehemently disagree with this.

The TT is a bit of a pig, given its weight, with a tendency to understeer as with most FWD/AWD vehicles.

Its 90% of the time FWD car.


Originally posted by BillK
But it definitely handles well. It doesn't require skill to drive, which is one of its major benefits. You don't need to be SCCA-licensed to get the most out of a TT, electronics on or off. There are no performance problems the electronics cure, nor is it in any way unsafe at any speed resembling anything that should be approached on a public road. The TT feels wonderfully stable and competent at speeds up to at least 105 MPH, which is where I ran out of courage. Want to improve the handling? Aftermarket springs and shocks make a world of difference for the TT, and if you like a Neuspeed 19mm rear bar can be added that makes the TT so neutral it will even tend a bit towards oversteer.

On public roads? You completly missed the horrible crash in German (public road) that caused a total recal, redesign of the rear suspension (ruining the cars handling) and fitting of that ugly rear spoiler?


Originally posted by BillK
But it's certainly not a bad car, and most certainly not in any way unstable or dangerous...

Its certainly Not a dangerous car now, driven within its limits, but it never lets the driver know what those limits are, push it to far and when the DSC cant keep you on the road any longer you dont get any warning. I'll be the first to admit those limits are prety good, it does stick to the road quite well, bit I'd prefer some warning when aproaching the cars limits.

I'm supprised to hear about all the rattles, I thought they were screwed together properly(inside and engine)?

Apart from the ignition coil pack that is...

Back on the HP issue. I wonder if those who are getting low HP and MPG have a problem in the air intake system. DAIS. It seems to be a complex beast, and likely would decrease performance if it was malfunctioning. My old CL-S had a secondary intake stage that changed the length of the intake runners, and when the actuator motor died so did the HP by about 20-25.

Originally posted by pelucidor
That's funny - I remember several cars from the 1970's that had vents like these - particularly Alfa Romeos. Amazing how they copied the TT - must have used a time-machine.

Not to mention that the first front wheel drive 626 (84?) had swinging vents- those swinging vents that are so 'new' nowdays. How quickly we forget.:p
And the TT- a nicely styled car- looks like one person sat down and designed the entire car at once -which is very rare is today's committee and focus group designed auto world. But I seriously doubt anybody will rememeber the TT fondly in ten years- except ex mechanics that paid several several boat payments trying to keep TTs running after the factory warranty was up.:p :D
And it is funny how people like to mention the mods to make another car faster. Two things- one: these mods void the warranty- and two: The RX-8 is all new- newer than any other vehicle in decades from a mechanical standpoint. Given enough time, the RX-8 will also have some great afetrmarket mods for boosted performance.:cool:

Originally posted by RobDickinson

On public roads? You completly missed the horrible crash in German (public road) that caused a total recal, redesign of the rear suspension (ruining the cars handling) and fitting of that ugly rear spoiler?First of all, I like the rear spoiler - the TT has much too much of a "soap bar" look without it, IMHO. But the crash took place at speeds well above 130 MPH on a German road in the rain. I guess I'm being U.S.-centric by saying "public road" but in most areas of the world other than Germany you will never reach those speeds on a public road without rather excessively exceeding the speed limit, thus my comment.

Its certainly Not a dangerous car now, driven within its limits, but it never lets the driver know what those limits are, push it to far and when the DSC cant keep you on the road any longer you dont get any warning. I'll be the first to admit those limits are prety good, it does stick to the road quite well, bit I'd prefer some warning when aproaching the cars limits.All cars with ESP operate this way; that's one of the downsides of it, but at the same time the ESP light will be blinking like a Christmas tree on the dash when it's active to let you know it's trying to stop you from doing something stupid. That alone should be warning that you're exceeding the car's unassisted handling characteristics. You can, of course, shut off the ESP and then anything goes.

I'm supprised to hear about all the rattles, I thought they were screwed together properly(inside and engine)?The general problem is German auto makers in my experience just don't care about rattles. I have another German car now and it has almost as many rattles as the TT.

The problem is design; perhaps German roads are smooth as ice, but when you add expansion cracks and potholes most German cars I've driven - Porsches, Audis, BMWs, VWs - become a cacophony of rattling plastic bits. In the TT, most of the bits that rattled/squeaked could not be quieted because there was no real way to silence them. A good example was the mini shelf running under the glove compartment; it's a long piece of plastic firmly attached to the dash but it itself can vibrate and make noise. There is no way to stop a large piece of plastic from resonating at certain frequencies, so the only fix was to wedge a piece of weatherstrip foam between the shelf and the center console stack. Not elegant, but...

Other stupid rattles were the radio cover door when up (more foam) and the light lens illuminating the storage cubby in the console (no way to quiet it as it was a plastic lens inserted into a plastic holder.)

It sounds stupid, but if you drive something like a Suburban that has what looks like miles of cheap plastic inside, none of it rattles even if you hit potholes the size of watermelons.

Finally, in reference to keeping a TT running after warranty, I have to say that despite all the rattles, I never had one driveability problem with my TT, including my coil packs and diverter valve...

Originally posted by BillK


The problem is design; perhaps German roads are smooth as ice, but when you add expansion cracks and potholes most German cars I've driven - Porsches, Audis, BMWs, VWs - become a cacophony of rattling plastic .

You really must be joking. I have driven 10 years old bmw, that rattles much less than 1 year old Japanese or Italian cars. You can say a lot of things about German cars BUT I thing poor interior quality (assembly of plastics) it something out of the question!