The 350z will easily outperform the RX-8.

i aint gonna doubt you bro, but we aint seen the Rx-8 in action, but im gettin one and my friends put a down payment on one, so ill find out.

Well we know where to find the RX-8 specs to compare. Where are the 350Z's stats? At least we can do some armchair comparisons before the magazines all do it for us. ;)

Anyone have a website with 350Z stats handy?

Ok, I have seen this can of worms over and over and over and over again in the chats. Let me tell you what I know. I dont know the latests, but the last I heard Nissan couldnt massage the 280 HP out of the motor in the 350Z ,an estimated 260 IMO, and the car will weigh in at a 3150 lbs. Thats 400 lbs heavier than the RX8, and only ten HP. One thing that the 350Z may have over the RX8 is the TQ number. But that TQ number could mean didly considering that these are sports cars not 1320 racers. The RX8 seems more like a go cart then the 350Z in the handling department due to its 50:50 weight distribution and the wheel base and the lighter car and the engines position. The 350Z has an aftermarket following already planned for it and more specs are available (due in fact to the early release, and Nissan does have a preorder system in place) but look to the RX8 for an equal following as the sport car becomes more and more rare in the Sub 30 category. Also based on the talk it has generated elsewhere the RENESIS motor has caught many an eye.

mikro=troll?

but when you say outperform. Where? at the drag strip? possibly. on the track? no damn way...

Originally posted by Mikro
The 350z will easily outperform the RX-8.

Wow. Thanks for your insightfull comments. You truely are a worthwhile addition to the board.

Looks like our first troll guys. ;) One post, trying to be inflammatory. Smells like a troll to me. :mad:

Nissan 350z Specs:

Weight: 3150 lbs
Weight Dist.: 52/48
Power: 280 hp
Torque: 263 lb-ft

numbers aren't totally official.

besides...at 3150lbs., it's a boat. Heh, the WRX would keep up with it...

Originally posted by Mikro
The 350z will easily outperform the RX-8.

Can you be more ignorant? Your comparing a car with stats to another car without any known stats except for its name, if you came here to be a troll you are in the wrong forum kid.

alright, Ive met many people that alwaystry to get technical and talk about the stats of ther car against mine, and i walked all over them. Ya follow me, to me stats are only numbers, you either put up or shut up. I mean they can give all th details they want, and I just got to say that I have a 3-rotor and they can't compare to it. So forget the stats and we'll wait and see.

Does your 3 rotor come standard with bad english and inflamatory replies? One more post like that and I ban you.

take it easy bro, there was nothing inflamatory about that i was just givin my opinion on stats

And touting the invincibility of your 3 rotor. :rolleyes:

Okay, no one should ever mod their car again, because nothing holds a candle to your 3 rotor. ;)

Riiiiiight... Although I do think veloceracing must have misunderstood what you were saying, 'cause I don't think that a little testosterone bravado is grounds for banning. :)

Okay, it's my turn to troll:

Give up guys! Your car that has not even been finalized by the manufacturer couldn't beet my four year olds bicycle in the 1/4 mile. :cool: Oh yeah, and rotaries are only good for mowing my lawn. :D

How was that? Who wants to troll next? ;)

(Disclaimer and advance apology: Sorry if this is inflammatory. Just trying to diffuse the situation with a little humor)

Oh, and stats are the only way to judge a car that has not been produced and tested. ;) I mentioned stats to begin with for that reason, and to take the burn off the troll's comments. :)

The 350Z's stats don't compare to the RX-8, and the RX-8 is a family car. I can't wait to do a little trolling of my own on the 350Z forum... LOL@ :D

i think it'll be a good race. we'll just have to wait and see.

i couldnt agree more bro, like I said before... stats are just numbers, the real proof comes when you race, so i agree wit you it will be a good race, but the RX-8 will win

From what i've read, the 350z will be faster than the RX-8 stock. Where did you hear that they were only able to get 260hp out of the Z? Last I heard they were still aiming at 280-290 hp.

aiming is the key word. 280 is still a target, so look too see 280 at the MOST. My gues is 270-275 (close by all means). Keep in mind though that a rotary powerband is delicous.

Nissan has quoted a horsepower rating above 280 horses for the 350Z. With 260 ftlbs of torque. I seriously don't think 160 ftlbs of torque from the renesis engine will be able to keep up even with the powerband. The weight of the RX-8 I thought was quoted at 2900 lbs in Car and Driver so that's not far off the 3150 of the 350Z. Street the 350Z will win, Track would be interesting but with the low torque numbers I still would give it to the 350Z.

Sorry I meant road and track not car and driver.

I was looking in that Issue of RandT today when I saw something that caught my eye. If you look at the article about the Panoz Esperante you'll see that they list two weights, one that is the curb weight and one that is the weight as tested and the weight as tested is about 180-190lbs off from the Curb weight (the driver parked his ass in it). The RX8 has a difference of 180-190 LBS from the 2750 we all expect and were hoping for. That means that weight listed is most likey with driver, and that means you have to add about 180-190 LBS to the weight of the 350Z. So figure 3340-3350LBS for that car. And this is where the 30 additional "target" hp are gonna come in. And yes the TQ band is gonna effect this battle, if the RX8 can pull its Richard Simmons light ass for a long time and the 350Z can only launch its Drew Carey heavy ass with a small amount of the RPM range. then you have a good race. I can just hear it now,

"The NISSAN GETS A GOOD JUMP OFF THE LINE BUT THE MAZDA IS MAKING ITS WEIGH BACK, THEY ARE NECK AND NECK AT THE 660 MARK AND THE MAZDA IS NOT LETTING UP AND THE NISSAN IS FALLING BEHIND AND THE RX8 OUT RUNS THE 350Z BY .1 SECONDS!"

I think you are being a little too biased. Both the cars are great but stock vs. stock the 350z will take it to school. The 350z will be running 13's in the quarter mile and the RX8 will be running 14's if the specs stay the same as they are now. Torque is very important, that's why a stock mustang gt will take the honda s2000.

i agree with veloceracing, weight does make a HUGE differance. The Z is gonna need that extra hp to keep up with the lightweight rx8...otherwise the z will be left behind in the dust!

Then why does a stock GT Mustang easily walk the S2000 even though it is heavier by far? It is because it has more torque.

I thought that the 14.4 of the S2000 was faster than the Mustangs 14.7

FYI, the 99+ Mustang GT's do high 13's/low 14's in the 1/4 mile stock.

Hi Veloceracing,

I was going to respond to your post about using math to derive 1/4 mile times from hp but it is no longer here? :confused:

It will be very interesting to see how the weight and gearing ratios turn out in the next year. While I am as optimistic as anyone that the rx-8 will come in at 27** lbs, I believe Road & Track's weight was without the driver.

From the article:
Curb weight: est 2970 lb

From Road & Track's website:
Our Curb weight measurement is taken with a full fuel tank, but no driver (below). Test weight includes our tester and whatever fuel is in the tank (most of the time it’s full).

Link is below:
(http://www.roadandtrack.com/RoadAndTrack/technical/1001_amplifying_rt_data_panel/1001_amplifying_general_data.html)

I am still hoping that Mazda will have another "operation gram per head" like they did to cut 250 lbs from the 2nd gen before production but think that it's likely that the rx-8 will come in around 28** lbs.

Of course the weight and the gearing ratios are the 2 biggest variables which we haven't had any concrete data on. Personally, I would hope that the gearing is tightly spaced and has lower gearing (numerically higher ratios) than any previous rotary car (The car will have room for 4 adults so the gearing should take the weight of 4 adults into consideration).

Actually, the most amazing thing about what we have seen come out about the renesis is that it will have "90 percent of peak torque available at 3250 rpm". Assuming that the torque curve doesn't go up and down like the vtec s2000 one, ;) this would mean that there will be 5500 rpms of 90% or greater torque in the Rx-8's powerband!!!!

If geared properly, Mazda will surprise a lot of people when the Rx-8 comes out... :D

Brian

Hi Coldasice,

While I agree with you that torque is very important, surely you will agree (I won't call you Shirley anymore) that weight is also important.

Another important issue is the torque curve. The s2000 has a range of approx 2750 rpm (5750 - 8500) of 90% peak torque or greater. The vtec's first peak in the torque curve does not hit the 90% mark and the torque actually drops before slowly rising again at 4500 rpm again. This is why the s2000 has had a reputation of being "peaky".

Despite having a measly peak 152 lbs/ft of torque (less than some accord models!), the stock s2000 can still get to 0-60 in less than 6 seconds which is better than many cars with 200 lbs/ft of torque that are heavier.

And proper gearing of the renesis' flat torque curve can produce a lot more oomph than people will expect. (max torque at high rpm can be geared a lot)

Brian

Hi Coldasice,

Nothing against Mustangs but the following website has the below numbers:

http://www.fast-autos.net/honda/s2000info.html
2001 S2000
Curb Weight: 2755 lbs
Horsepower: 240 bhp @ 8300 rpm
Torque: 153 lb-ft @ 7500 rpm
0-60 mph: 5.5 sec
0-100 mph: 13.8 sec
Quarter Mile: 14.1 sec @ 99.6 mph

http://www.fast-autos.net/ford/mustanggtinfo.html
2001 Mustang GT
Curb Weight: 3113 lbs
Horsepower: 260 bhp @ 5250 rpm
Torque: 302 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm
0-60 mph: 5.5 sec
0-100 mph: 14.5 sec
Quarter Mile: 14.1 sec @ 99 mph

Other websites have #s that differ a little bit but they all have the s2000 and the Mustang performing pretty close to each other so I wouldn't agree with the statement that the "stock GT Mustang (will) easily walk the S2000 even though it is heavier by far".

Despite having nearly double the torque of the s2000, the extra several hundred pounds of the Mustang and the lower gearing (numerically higher ratios) of the s2000 make it an almost even battle according to many websites.

I would note that the s2000 costs almost 10,000 usd more than the s2000 and a Mustang GT with 10,000 in mods would easily blow the s2000 away though.

Brian

Well, notthing against 0-60 and quarter mile numbers, but in day to day operations, S2000 is much harder to drive fast since you have to keep it above 5750 rpms to get some power out of it...

For me, 80-120 kmh or 50-70 mph test in 4th and 5th gear would be more usable as I dont see keeping my car in 6,000 rpm range in day to day traffic, just in case some M3 wants to play... this is when torque comes in play since GT can pull cleanly from low revs while with Honda you will have to shift into 3nd gear and wait for few seconds... by that time, M3 will be long gone.

As to RX-8, I dont think it should be compared to S2000 since it has more power in lower revs, so it should start pulling from 3000 rpm which is much more acceptible.

Exactly. The rx-8 will have the usual characteristics that we love.

People WILL compare the s2000 and the rx-8 because of the similar peak torque and peak horsepower numbers and we should welcome this.

Many people are already thinking of the rx-8 as similar to the s2000 because of the low torque and high rpms.

A comparison between the 2 will highlight the fact that the rotarys flat torque curve will give it a tremendous advantage.

Brian

Well at least that whole thing with the Z thug seems over.

This weekend my father said that the RX-8 sounds more like a performance go kart with a V6 yanking it down the road than a Porsche 911. I think it was his way of complimenting the car or something.
I later asked him if that was good or bad, he said as far as a sports cars go, that’s good.

Thought that would be kinda humorous or something.
Taking in consideration what started this thread in the first place!


Apex

The Inflammatory 3 Rotor is attached (though it would be humorous too -check the beginning of this potentially volatile thread to see why-)