DIY: Deflooding in under 5 mins
03-15-2005, 08:53 AM
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DIY: Deflooding in under 5 mins
Time (in mins.sec):
PLEASE WAIT TO POST A REPLY UNTIL I HAVE COMPLETED ALL THE INSTRUCTIONS!
0-0.59 - Realize that your 8 is flooded!
1.00-3.59 - Perform the Mazda deflooding proceedures.
4.00-4.10 - Open the hood
4.11-4.15 - Switch the washer fluid "deflooding valve" from washer nozzle setting to engine deflooding setting.
4.16-4.20 - turn the ignition to the "on" position, and give 2 very short (under 1 sec) pulses of the washer fluid spray.
4.21-4.25 - switch the washer fluid "deflooding" valve from engine deflooding setting to washer nozzle setting.
4.26-5.00 - crank engine with gas peddle fully depressed to the floor. The engine should fire right up!
You may repeat the proceedure of injecting the washer fluid into the rotor housing if necessary. You may also find that a bit more may help!
Now, after reading these simple instructions, many of you will ask, "what the heck is the 'deflooding valve'?" Well, in the following posts, I will explain, and give detailed instructions as to how to install your own "deflooding valve."
PLEASE WAIT TO POST A REPLY UNTIL I HAVE COMPLETED ALL THE INSTRUCTIONS!
0-0.59 - Realize that your 8 is flooded!
1.00-3.59 - Perform the Mazda deflooding proceedures.
4.00-4.10 - Open the hood
4.11-4.15 - Switch the washer fluid "deflooding valve" from washer nozzle setting to engine deflooding setting.
4.16-4.20 - turn the ignition to the "on" position, and give 2 very short (under 1 sec) pulses of the washer fluid spray.
4.21-4.25 - switch the washer fluid "deflooding" valve from engine deflooding setting to washer nozzle setting.
4.26-5.00 - crank engine with gas peddle fully depressed to the floor. The engine should fire right up!
You may repeat the proceedure of injecting the washer fluid into the rotor housing if necessary. You may also find that a bit more may help!
Now, after reading these simple instructions, many of you will ask, "what the heck is the 'deflooding valve'?" Well, in the following posts, I will explain, and give detailed instructions as to how to install your own "deflooding valve."
Last edited by devoid; 03-15-2005 at 11:10 AM.
03-15-2005, 09:03 AM
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The first step in this DIY is to get the necessary materials, and also to locate the maintenance ports on the sides of the 2 rotor housings.
Parts:
3ft of 1/8" or 7/64" rubber washer fluid or vacuum line house. (if you choose washer fluid hose, make sure it is very thick and stong, as it will have to endure vacuum pressures, and not just washer fluid!)
1 'T' joint
1 3-way valve (I found a metal aquarium air valve to be the perfect size...let alone ONLY valve of this size)
To locate the maintenance ports, look at the following pictures. On the passenger side of the engine, you will see 2 very small rubber caps sticking out from the rotor housings. (In the pictures, I have already removed one of the caps.) Remove both of these caps, and we shall proceed.
Parts:
3ft of 1/8" or 7/64" rubber washer fluid or vacuum line house. (if you choose washer fluid hose, make sure it is very thick and stong, as it will have to endure vacuum pressures, and not just washer fluid!)
1 'T' joint
1 3-way valve (I found a metal aquarium air valve to be the perfect size...let alone ONLY valve of this size)
To locate the maintenance ports, look at the following pictures. On the passenger side of the engine, you will see 2 very small rubber caps sticking out from the rotor housings. (In the pictures, I have already removed one of the caps.) Remove both of these caps, and we shall proceed.
Last edited by devoid; 03-15-2005 at 09:27 AM.
03-15-2005, 09:08 AM
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Once you have removed the 2 rubber covers from the maintenance ports, you then need to fit your new house over the two ports.
As you can see from the first picture, the 'T' joint joins two very small bits of hose together. The two bits of house will connect to each maintenance port.
For picture purposes, I also show you what the 'T' joint and two bits of hose look like when they are connected.
I found it easier to first connect the long house coming from the top of the 'T' joint as well, before connecting the two smaller hoses to the maintenance ports on the rotor housings.
As you can see from the first picture, the 'T' joint joins two very small bits of hose together. The two bits of house will connect to each maintenance port.
For picture purposes, I also show you what the 'T' joint and two bits of hose look like when they are connected.
I found it easier to first connect the long house coming from the top of the 'T' joint as well, before connecting the two smaller hoses to the maintenance ports on the rotor housings.
Last edited by devoid; 03-15-2005 at 09:27 AM.
03-15-2005, 09:19 AM
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For the last stages of this installation, you will use the flow redirection valve. As I previously mentioned, I was only able to find that an aquarium air valve to suit this purpose. You can see this vavle in the first picture. I recommend the metal valve to assure that the alcohol in the washer fluid doesn't dry out any o-rings in the valve. The metal vavle doesn't use o-rings.
At this point, you want to make a cut in the regular washer fluid hose, coming out of the washer fluid pump. I would suggest making your cut far enough up, so that you don't have to squeeze your hands to access it.
Connect the incoming line on the valve to the line coming out of the washer fluid pump.
You may then connect the first outgoing valve to the other side of the washer line you just cut. This in essensence completes the washer fluid to washer nozzles line.
Finally, you want to cut your new extended line we ran from the 'T' joint in the previous step. Cut it so that it lines up with the second second outgoing valve on. Also give yourself enough slack, you don't want anything to kink up.
Once you've connected the last line, you are all set.
Now, for the typical running position, you would have the washer fluid flowing to the washer nozzles and the line flowing to the engine maintenance ports would be closed.
In the event of a flood...you would close the washer fluid flow to the washer nozzles, and open it to the maintenance ports.
At this point, you want to make a cut in the regular washer fluid hose, coming out of the washer fluid pump. I would suggest making your cut far enough up, so that you don't have to squeeze your hands to access it.
Connect the incoming line on the valve to the line coming out of the washer fluid pump.
You may then connect the first outgoing valve to the other side of the washer line you just cut. This in essensence completes the washer fluid to washer nozzles line.
Finally, you want to cut your new extended line we ran from the 'T' joint in the previous step. Cut it so that it lines up with the second second outgoing valve on. Also give yourself enough slack, you don't want anything to kink up.
Once you've connected the last line, you are all set.
Now, for the typical running position, you would have the washer fluid flowing to the washer nozzles and the line flowing to the engine maintenance ports would be closed.
In the event of a flood...you would close the washer fluid flow to the washer nozzles, and open it to the maintenance ports.
Last edited by devoid; 03-15-2005 at 09:27 AM.
03-15-2005, 09:27 AM
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Now, some quick notes.
1. The maintenance ports on the side of the rotor housings have been around on rotory engines for quite some time...they are nothing new. In fact, mazda techs often use these ports to quickly inject washer fluid into a flooded engine as a way to deflood.
2. The maintenance ports may, however, be used in California due to emissions laws, for the purpose of recycling gases. Thus, in California, these ports may already be in use, and you may not be able to perform this modification. (Update: these ports are not used in California, so this mod is open to CA vehicles)
3. The theory behind injecting the washer fluid into the engine is two-fold. The washer fluid itself helps clean out the engine, as well as clean off the plugs. The alcohol in the washer fluid helps burn up whatever is left behind, as well as burn off what may be on the plugs.
4. Be warned that this WILL cause major smoking, as with any flooded engine. I highly suggest performing this proceedure outside, if possible.
5. I have no affiliation with Mazda, nor do I post this information as having come officially from Mazda. This is something I have found that works, but have found that this is a method that Mazda mechanics do utilize.
6. This MOD was born out of necessity. As many of you have seen all the work that has been performed on my RX-8 over the past year, you know it has pretty much sat around, and moved very little. In fact, it only has a total of 60 some miles on it resulting from moving from shop to shop. In that time, the car has now flooded twice (2x). This method has prevented me from having to get the car towed the second time. (I didn't know about this method at the time of the first flood)
DONE! FEEL FREE TO POST REPLIES!
1. The maintenance ports on the side of the rotor housings have been around on rotory engines for quite some time...they are nothing new. In fact, mazda techs often use these ports to quickly inject washer fluid into a flooded engine as a way to deflood.
2. The maintenance ports may, however, be used in California due to emissions laws, for the purpose of recycling gases. Thus, in California, these ports may already be in use, and you may not be able to perform this modification. (Update: these ports are not used in California, so this mod is open to CA vehicles)
3. The theory behind injecting the washer fluid into the engine is two-fold. The washer fluid itself helps clean out the engine, as well as clean off the plugs. The alcohol in the washer fluid helps burn up whatever is left behind, as well as burn off what may be on the plugs.
4. Be warned that this WILL cause major smoking, as with any flooded engine. I highly suggest performing this proceedure outside, if possible.
5. I have no affiliation with Mazda, nor do I post this information as having come officially from Mazda. This is something I have found that works, but have found that this is a method that Mazda mechanics do utilize.
6. This MOD was born out of necessity. As many of you have seen all the work that has been performed on my RX-8 over the past year, you know it has pretty much sat around, and moved very little. In fact, it only has a total of 60 some miles on it resulting from moving from shop to shop. In that time, the car has now flooded twice (2x). This method has prevented me from having to get the car towed the second time. (I didn't know about this method at the time of the first flood)
DONE! FEEL FREE TO POST REPLIES!
Last edited by devoid; 03-18-2005 at 01:57 PM.
03-15-2005, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by devoid
3. The theory behind injecting the washer fluid into the engine is two-fold. The washer fluid itself helps clean out the engine, as well as clean off the plugs. The alcohol in the washer fluid helps burn up whatever is left behind, as well as burn off what may be on the plugs.
There are too many variables with washer fluid - the generic blue stuff, the pink RainX stuff, Prestone BugWash, Prestone DeIcer, water with no additive, water with some additive, etc. I'd be up for a second tank, or a bottle, or a syringe, to squirt in a 'dose' of a deflooding solution. That solution should be made from a recipie to keep it consistant.
So... what would be the best ingredients to clean/dry the chambers, clean off plug residue, and then get burned off cleanly? Some mixture of water, ethyl alcohol, (Absolut Deflooding? :D) Techroline, ????? If we could get that mixture down, we'd be set!
03-15-2005, 03:48 PM
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^^^ Well....I'm still utilizing the washer fluid that came from the factory! So I'd say the blue stuff is a pretty safe bet!
Though I really do like the "Absolut Deflood". We could even sell it in the heavy duty bottles! :D
Though I really do like the "Absolut Deflood". We could even sell it in the heavy duty bottles! :D
03-15-2005, 11:27 PM
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Same idea but using oil here
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...4-05-1448b.pdf
Oil will restore the compression which is the main reason it won't fire.
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...4-05-1448b.pdf
Oil will restore the compression which is the main reason it won't fire.
03-16-2005, 07:41 AM
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Oil doesn't always work.... ATF was needed in mine after oil failed.
Originally Posted by RX8-CARL
Same idea but using oil here
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...4-05-1448b.pdf
Oil will restore the compression which is the main reason it won't fire.
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...4-05-1448b.pdf
Oil will restore the compression which is the main reason it won't fire.
03-16-2005, 07:56 AM
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Hey....all I know is that two quick shots of washer fluid in each chamber worked on mine....so I've since revised it to be able to do both at the same time. As for the amount....all I can say is that the washer pump has some force behind it...so 2 quick squirts should be plenty.
03-16-2005, 08:55 AM
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well....as I've mentioned in the thread previously, its been twice in under 60 some miles. Once at like 54, the second at like 66 maybe? The first time they replaced the plugs as well, cause it was dealer deflooded. They performed the above method, which worked initially, but then they found the plugs were fouled anyway. So this time, I simply performed the same method myself, and its working fine.
03-17-2005, 05:00 PM
#17
RX-7 Guru
That's a pretty neat idea!
Few things you can do to make it even neater -
- The plastic tee down by the two nipples - see if you can find a 1/8" brass tee. Some places with aquarium supplies will have brass tees (Walmart used to, but now they just have plastic) as well as some hardware stores. The plastic will get brittle being that close to the exhaust manifold and eventually fail and break.
- If you want to get "hands-free", the 2nd and 3rd generation cars have 3-way switching solenoids that are 12v switched. You could easily plumb one in, then hit a switch to switch the solenoid to injecting washer fluid, then hit your "washer squirt" button, then flip back. Don't even need to pop the hood
. You could likely find one and the electrical connector off a 2nd gen RX-7 at a pick-and-pull junkyard for a dollar.
And, BTW, those rubber nipples are on the lower intake manifold, not the rotor housing.
Good stuff!
Dale
Few things you can do to make it even neater -
- The plastic tee down by the two nipples - see if you can find a 1/8" brass tee. Some places with aquarium supplies will have brass tees (Walmart used to, but now they just have plastic) as well as some hardware stores. The plastic will get brittle being that close to the exhaust manifold and eventually fail and break.
- If you want to get "hands-free", the 2nd and 3rd generation cars have 3-way switching solenoids that are 12v switched. You could easily plumb one in, then hit a switch to switch the solenoid to injecting washer fluid, then hit your "washer squirt" button, then flip back. Don't even need to pop the hood
. You could likely find one and the electrical connector off a 2nd gen RX-7 at a pick-and-pull junkyard for a dollar.And, BTW, those rubber nipples are on the lower intake manifold, not the rotor housing
.Good stuff!
Dale
03-17-2005, 06:19 PM
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I believe I read somewhere else in the forum that water injecting was a good idea on occasion to clean carbon and prevent hot spots. A system like this with a switch would go beyond dealing with the flooding issue. I'm thinking high qualty aircraft hose- stainless - brass fitttings - and a small resevoir and pump used specifically for this pupose. They make nice small resevoirs and pumps for use in water cooling computer systems. Some of these resevoirs are even metal. The whole system could still be built for a very resonable amount.
03-17-2005, 07:12 PM
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That's a great idea. I was considering the mod, but for a few potential floods (how many persons flooded twice on M flash?), did not seem worth. Instead, I was thinking to have a syringe handy and just shoot some washer fluid in there if disaster strikes But as a system to keep the chambers clean, it is worth building something permanent.
Please make a DIY and post pics and part numbers/dealers once you do it!
But as a system to keep the chambers clean, it is worth building something permanent.Please make a DIY and post pics and part numbers/dealers once you do it!
03-18-2005, 10:40 AM
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Just a thought
I was also wondering if the deflooding procedure (from the manual) would work to prevent floods if you absolutely had to move the car a short distance cold. Not something to do on any regular basis - it'd be hard on the battery - but since no fuel is injected, and the plugs are firing, shouldn't any residual fuel be burnt and expelled?
03-18-2005, 10:51 AM
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As I understand it...the problem of flooding, is from unburnt fuel/oil being left in the chambers. This is why RX-7 owners used to pull the fuel pump fuse, or install a fuel pump cut off...thus cutting all fuel and letting the engine stall. So the problem isn't really on startup, so much as it is on shutdown...which simply leads me to a question of why mazda simply doesn't have some sort of delayed action when turning off the key. Why not just cut the fuel, and a few seconds later, shut off the power. Am I wrong? Wouldn't this eliminate the flooding issues?
03-18-2005, 01:45 PM
#23
Originally Posted by devoid
2. The maintenance ports may, however, be used in California due to emissions laws, for the purpose of recycling gases. Thus, in California, these ports may already be in use, and you may not be able to perform this modification.
Just checked and on my CA car, the same black plugs are there - no other use of the maintenance ports.
03-18-2005, 05:39 PM
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Wow this is amazing.
This is by far the first mod I’m going to do on my car when i get it.
BTW how safe or long will those hose last since they get so close to the rotor housing. I know someone brought up the plastic T case but what of the hoses?
One more question...
How much does a bottle of the Mazda washer fluid cost. If your only using Mazda fluid i might just stick with it in case of the flooding since it is safe...so far that is...
This is by far the first mod I’m going to do on my car when i get it.
BTW how safe or long will those hose last since they get so close to the rotor housing. I know someone brought up the plastic T case but what of the hoses?
One more question...
How much does a bottle of the Mazda washer fluid cost. If your only using Mazda fluid i might just stick with it in case of the flooding since it is safe...so far that is...